Update: Addressing new level system questions and feedback

[shaunbaines]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:33 PM, Kesha said:

Gigs with higher order volumes have a greater impact on your score, while those with fewer orders contribute less.

Is there a number attached to what contributes to higher order volumes? For those of us whose gigs mean their orders can take up to two/three/four weeks to complete seem to be placed at a disadvantage to those who complete larger volumes of smaller orders. There are also sellers who require feedback from their clients to better hone the work. They will require a longer lead time to complete their work and if the buyer takes their time to review the work, the seller is unfairly placed at a disadvantage through no fault of their own. 

[bethanyvo]

@Kesha

I definitely like knowing my score and where I stand performance-wise within the marketplace- but from what I’m reading, a lot of sellers are mistakenly being given poor success scores due to random things that are beyond their control.

For instance- there is a long standing bug that if you only review requirements and respond to the order within the app- and do not review order requirements in desktop mode- you will get a reminder email to review the requirements- which is apparently now affecting the communication score.

But many have no idea this bug exists- and in my own question to CS about it- I was told not to worry about it. There may be many other things as well.

Possibly starting everyone out with a detailed report of how they are currently doing (similar to the year end report that is given) detailing where they excel, and where they can improve, etc- but give a “clean slate” and score of 10 to ALL sellers with a 60 day rolling evaluation for all actions moving forward would make it more fair, reasonable and encouraging for all sellers across the board.

It gives all sellers an opportunity to build on their successes, and work on areas that may need improvement with a fresh start.

Additionally, openly listing each item we are dinged for (revisions should not be one of them due to clients often changing scope- and value for money should be re- worded) would help us all understand how to perform to the best of our ability- which is a win for buyers, sellers and Fiverr.

Thanks for listening to us all😊

[arianelaurent]

@Kesha Please can you confirm whether revisions are factored into the conflict metric? Thank you! 
 

As numerous other sellers have mentioned, revisions are a natural part of the creative process and are usually essential to ensure the highest levels of client satisfaction on more complex projects. It makes no sense to penalize sellers for making clients more satisfied.

Also, as others have mentioned, buyers often use the revision button when they're waiting for feedback from other stakeholders or don't have time to check a delivery (so it doesn't indicate a problem with the seller). 

[arianelaurent]

2 minutes ago, bethanyvo said:

@Kesha

I definitely like knowing my score and where I stand performance-wise within the marketplace- but from what I’m reading, a lot of sellers are mistakenly being given poor success scores due to random things that are beyond their control.

For instance- there is a long standing bug that if you only review requirements and respond to the order within the app- and do not review order requirements in desktop mode- you will get a reminder email to review the requirements- which is apparently now affecting the communication score.

But many have no idea this bug exists- and in my own question to CS about it- I was told not to worry about it. There may be many other things as well.

Possibly starting everyone out with a detailed report of how they are currently doing (similar to the year end report that is given) detailing where they excel, and where they can improve, etc- but give a “clean slate” and score of 10 to ALL sellers with a 60 day rolling evaluation for all actions moving forward would make it more fair, reasonable and encouraging for all sellers across the board.

It gives all sellers an opportunity to build on their successes, and work on areas that may need improvement with a fresh start.

Additionally, openly listing each item we are dinged for (revisions should not be one of them due to clients often changing scope- and value for money should be re- worded) would help us all understand how to perform to the best of our ability- which is a win for buyers, sellers and Fiverr.

Thanks for listening to us all😊

Thank you, Bethany, I wondered why the review requirements thing was happening! Definitely concerning!!

[duashahid345]

Conclusion:
Do revisions (which are not necessarily your fault and the system has no way of knowing this), accommodate your clients and your "conflict of orders" is at risk.
Get great public reviews despite their deceiving review system, but still your "Client satisfaction" is not budging at all, because apparently that doesn't matter (I guess?)
Ask for time extensions and again your "conflict of orders" + "Delivery Time" is at risk. Factors like incomplete data, ghosting of client's doesnt matter cuz...yeah
Go to CS to complain of scam orders, unresponsive buyers, Get your orders cancelled and risk your "order cancellation" + "conflict of orders". Not to mention getting your gig potentially de-ranked for a while.
"Effective communication" error 404 not found. 
Don't get me started on value for money xD

Did I miss something? 

[shailene_george]

16 hours ago, roulaerevos said:

Let's cry together... Happened to me too 2 days ago. They must have created the worst UX in the rating form for buyers. Users do not understand what they are doing, so lots of reviews are worse than the client wants to rate. 

 

On 2/16/2024 at 2:45 AM, carineb said:

This review system is driving sellers crazy, but it also completely confuses buyers.

I received a message from a customer at 11:41 a.m. I replied 10 minutes later...
He placed the order 20 minutes later.
I delivered the next day at 10:26 p.m., that means 32 hours later (the delivery time for this gig is 7 days).

I got a 4-star review. The client ticked that I should improve my response time and delivery time.
I was completely floored when I read this. So I asked the client what the problem really was.
Here's his answer.
So I really misread the evaluation, I thought it was the positive points that had to be selected...

Don't laugh, I'm crying!

This isn't the first time we've heard that clients haven't understood this new form.

Someone really needs to look into this issue to avoid any misunderstandings.

We have had a bunch of instances now where we have observed the same. 

We have opened up a ticket with Fiverr Support and shared multiple use cases. @Kesha the Ticket ID is 11050768.

This feedback really needs to be passed along. I'll be meeting with the Success Manager soon and will also be discussing this with him. 

[alonercro]

I rarely visit Fiverr forum but I wanted to see what people think about this change.

As a video editor on Fiverr for over ten years, I rarely complete a video on the first try. That's practically impossible because it's a video with so many things to be precise, and buyers frequently alter their opinions, and now I am being penalized for it. This is an absurdity, and Fiverr does not care about its sellers. This is just sad.

 

[zerlina84]

18 minutes ago, bethanyvo said:

there is a long standing bug that if you only review requirements and respond to the order within the app- and do not review order requirements in desktop mode- you will get a reminder email to review the requirements- which is apparently now affecting the communication score.

Omg, are you serious? I keep getting that annoying email and I never understood why! My SS is 8 because of Communication! I can’t believe that is why 🤦🏻‍♀️

[duashahid345]

1 minute ago, alonercro said:

I rarely visit Fiverr forum but I wanted to see what people think about this change.

As a video editor on Fiverr for over ten years, I rarely complete a video on the first try. That's practically impossible because it's a video with so many things to be precise, and buyers frequently alter their opinions, and now I am being penalized for it. This is an absurdity, and Fiverr does not care about its sellers. This is just sad.

 

Fellow video editor here, and I completely agree with you here. Majority of the time it's the client's fault too. They'd want script changes, or logo changes. Nothing that I wouldn't be happily doing don't get me wrong but being penalized for accommodating them and ensuring customer satisfaction (And also offering a set number of revisions), this is OUR choice. Why are we being punished like this? We are even commended based on our compliance to their revisions. Its extremely disheartening to see this playing an absolute UNO reverse.

Attaching one of the many instances where clients are even obliged to us for accommodating their requests,

[plantantion]

4 hours ago, ingeniousarts said:

Hi @Kesha and everyone,

I am Moon, a seller on platform for last 5 years.
I have completed more than 25k+ orders.

Firstly, I would like to congratulate on business and platform development.
For the past two days, going through the new levelling system, I would like to raise few crucial points, as a long time experienced seller on the platform.

1. Success score:
Calculation of success score using the data for last two years period can be understood, but I feel the grace period of one month is not enough for sellers with high amount of orders.
In my personal experience, raising the success score where you have more than 500+ orders a month, it is very difficult to upscale the score within only a month period, when it is compared to two years data.

2. Value for Money Feedback:

I have noticed that value for money feedback is very challenging.
Since the new review system was launched, I have seen lot of my very much satisfied client giving 4.7 and 4.3 star instead of 5 star, due to value for money metric. This metric is very subjective in our industry where we are in a Service based industry.

3. Gig Score is relative to similar price category gig:

Recently, customer support raised a point that my individual gig score is also relative to other gigs in the same category within same price range.
This thing as a seller is very challenging, I think we should be marked on our own qualities and services that we provide to our client, instead of in comparison to other gigs with similar price range.

4. The gig benefits between levels:

The current new system update allows 10 gigs between level 1 and level 2, then 30 for Top Rated, which we feel is not justified. Having equal range difference between this would be a more justified approach. 

As a seller who exclusively works on fiverr and it is bread and butter to my life, I would recommend to please consider these few points and may be re modelling the level system and metric would be a point to think on. 
I strongly vouch on extending the grace period for seller who has been on platform for long time with high number of orders.

I would like to thank you for spending your precious time on reading our feedbacks. It is my humble request, if you can please consider these points, to make the system more successful for sellers and platform.

Best Regards,

Moon

 

Yes, agreed. The value for money feedback is very challenging for all the sellers. The lower rating in this category affects the overall rating. That experience highlights the subjective nature of the "value for money" metric and suggests that an alternative option may be more suitable. Given its subjective nature and the inherent variability in individual perceptions of value, this criteria may not always accurately reflect the quality of service provided, as it is influenced by human nature.

[katherinasim]

I'm also wondering if automatically completed orders somehow affect negatively the score as well? Considering everything else...

[hirart]

I was demoted from level 2 to level 1 in the new system due to issues. Despite having a success score of 6 on one gig without negative impact, my best-selling gig is affected by negative impacts from order cancellations and buyer satisfaction. I've never canceled orders for my reasons, and support always increased my cancellation rate after examining the issues. I am open to scrutiny and believe there are no major issues affecting buyer satisfaction. My question is why my score is influenced by other sellers' performance, emphasizing the uniqueness of each seller-client interaction? (see attached screenshot from Fiverr support) I work hard to provide the best service and wonder why I lost my level? Fiverr is disrupting the platform for every professional. A highly skilled individual can get demoted just because of one unlucky encounter with a bad client. It doesn't have to be your fault, but you could face punishment for months, even if you've completed thousands of orders successfully. Fiverr seems to assume all clients are professionals and doesn't address the potential for clients to take advantage. This doesn't seem like a stable career path, and it appears Fiverr may not prioritize retaining professionals on their platform.

[cal5086]

I think all of these responses and concerns show one thing about the people who freelance here on Fiverr, we care about this site, we care about the future of it, seeing so many people voice their opinions I think should be seen as a positive by Fiverr, you want a caring community who is engaged.

I've posted a lot over the last few days but I'm going to just voice what I think is my biggest concern currently is how this has been implemented, and it's one that I've seen repeated here and then I'm going to leave it alone until first week of March in hopes of more insight and changes.

We lived under the original standards for years, they were:
Inbox response rate
Inbox response time
Order Response rate
Delivered on Time
Order Completion
Ranking 1-5

The bold options were directly tied to your level, so if you dropped in one of these below 90% or below 4.7 then you would lose your level (at least as a TRS). I maintained these standards set out by Fiverr and retained my TRS during this entire period of time.

But now this new system is going back and looking at old data. Data that during the whole period of time my Top Rated Seller status was not in jeopardy. Now with this new system using the same data and new rules, my TRS is in jeopardy. This is the biggest issue. At the very least we should be afforded much more time to bring our number up 1 point, but at this point I don't even know if it's feasible because I probably have 2-3 thousand orders in this time period, so I don't know how this is weighted. I think the better solution would be to move everyone up one point or two and then let the system run as intended.

I'm going to just see how things shake out on here, I'm going to do my best and continue to do what I love on here and help authors with their books :)

Edited February 17 by cal5086
spelling

[charlsmcfarlane]

I think for me, and for a lot of people, the biggest problem with this new system is the value for money score. I’ve already articulated the issue I have with this measure, but I want to try and clarify what I mean a little better.

This score is a combination of two distinct variables – cost and quality.

Here’s an example to illustrate how this measure is broken:

If these two variables were split into two separate survey questions and a buyer rated cost at 1 star and quality at 5 stars, the average for those two metrics would be 2.5 stars. Thus, the value for money metric would be 2.5 stars. However, providing this metric as a combined score, from a combined question, means that the score is meaningless. There is no way to know, by looking at 2.5 stars, whether a buyer was ecstatic with the work, but unhappy about the cost or happy with the cost but disappointed with the result. There are these new tags that provide a little more context, but not enough, and they are only visible to the seller, so useless in providing context to potential buyers 

There’s a huge spectrum between those two extremes too. 2.5 stars could also mean that a customer was moderately happy with both the cost and result. Basically, the value for money score is meaningless to both sellers and buyers because it provides not nearly enough nuance of the buyers’ actual opinions. The only way that the score has any meaning, in its current state, is if it’s very low or very high, but the only way to get a very high score would to deliver exceptional work and undercharge for it, because it’s human nature to think, “yes it was amazing work, but it could have been cheaper” – and of course it could have been cheaper. That doesn’t mean it should have been cheaper.

So to win on “Value for money”, sellers are incentivised to drop their prices without dropping the quality of their work. Then the more that sellers drop their prices, the more buyers will expect to be able to get exceptional work for cheap prices, so they’ll continue to review “value for money” poorly and sellers will have to continue to drop their prices indefinitely. I can only see this being a race to the bottom on price, meaning decent sellers that deliver quality work will start to lose revenue (and so will Fiverr).

If these two variables must be surveyed, they should be surveyed separately. Personally, I actually don’t think that cost should come into the ratings at all, because the buyer agreed upon a cost at the beginning of the exchange. If they thought it was too much money, they shouldn’t have paid it in the first place – and if they paid and are unsatisfied with the result, they can leave a poor review about that result, or discuss other options with either the seller and/or Fiverr support.

Again, if “cost” must factor into the ratings, I wouldn’t even mind getting low scores for it, because I know I’d get great reviews for “quality”. If you want good quality, you have to pay for it, and if you want something for nothing, then I don’t want to work with you anyway.

Now, I’m aware that this is not a new rating. This rating has existed in private reviews for a while, and we are only now seeing the metric. My argument is that this is a flawed metric in general and should never have even been in the private reviews in the first place.

Besides, this, I feel there are other issues with these new updates, but, for me, they are just little hiccups – bugs that need fixing and algorithms that need tweaking. The overall spirit and concept of this new system is great. I wouldn’t want Fiverr to roll this back to the old system because this is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately this value for money rating and a few other little things are definitely a problem and need to be changed.

Thanks for listening to your community of sellers on this. I understand that the people responding in this forum are probably a small sample size, compared to the total number of sellers that are on the platform. However, when everyone in this small sample size are saying much the same thing, it’s not unreasonable to extrapolate the consensus out to the entire population, and infer that it’s pretty universal.

Again, thanks for listening.

[sophiepearce]

17 hours ago, Kesha said:

@alanletsgo Yes, requesting to extend the delivery date can impact your score. I would recommend that when setting your original deadline, you do the best you can to account for potential delays including revisions and unexpected obstacles. 

If the decision to extend the deadline is mutual between buyer and seller I really don't understand why this should affect our seller satisfaction. Most of time people only extend because they are waiting for buyer info or in an emergency. If the buyer is really unhappy, they would be able to refuse the order extension and/or cancel. Plus, they could then leave bad feedback either in public or private reviews which would also affect our stats. If the buyer has no problem with the order extension, I really don't understand why this is even a contributing factor to our success score.

 

I lost a close family member very suddenly only a few months ago. I had to extend the delivery on a few orders which I understood would possibly get me a bad rating however everyone I spoke to was sympathetic and told me to take my time. I couldn't 'foresee' that happening. My full time job gave me bereavement leave yet with Fiverr I would be expected to work through my grief as it would affect my score to extend a deadline to deal with an emergency. These things are unavoidable, life happens. We should be able to do something as simple as extending a deadline for a couple of days without it risking our our business income for several months following.

Edited February 17 by sophiepearce

[visualstudios]

3 hours ago, lenasemenkova said:

In any visual medium, some buyers just love revisions “to play around”. It’s like a fun game to them and it’s an exciting and expected part of the creative process. 

I've worked for Fiverr itself several times.

They asked for revisions.

 

But hey, another factor that we've basically predicted. We have been offering a single revision for the longest time, and try as much as possible to avoid revisions (that ties into demanding all the information upfront, not accepting new instructions once the order is open, etc.). That has also worked well for us, apparently.

I find it very funny that we've basically predicted all this, and we work in video editing. Maybe we should work in the psychic category, we seem to be quite better than them at their own game.

Edited February 17 by visualstudios

[emmaki]

Well, this does also give credence to the fact Fiverr wants to make things harder for bad sellers - it's those sellers who think offering 10+ revisions is great customer service when it's obvious to most people that 10x revisions is going to be a waste of time in most verticals (and non-abusive buyers)

But has Fiverr not considered that all it has done here is to push everyone - not just bad sellers - into thinking of new strategies to avoid the new penalties? And that in a few months or years, Fiverr will inevitably need to create a new and punishing update for everyone to combat a problem that they didn't fix properly the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh (etc) time around? 

Fiverr: get a team of humans and go through everyone in the catalog manually. Tighten up your approval processes more. There is no replacement for human judgement, no matter what you and your AI-crazed advisors might think. 

[priyank_mod]

2 hours ago, zerlina84 said:

Omg, are you serious? I keep getting that annoying email and I never understood why! My SS is 8 because of Communication! I can’t believe that is why 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes, I received this mail a couple of times. 

Since then I have ensured that I open the order requirements on laptop and even re-download the files I have already received (in regular inbox from buyer) - just to ✅ the box in the system.

[design_desk]

@Kesha

Hi Kesha !

After reviewing the new level system, I have concerns about several contradictory areas and fear this will have significant consequences.

 • Established sellers

With new metrics, my level right now is at 0 which in my opinion is just unfair.. as a Seller who has been performing on Fiverr for so many years(10 years) consistently maintaining high scores in every criterion is now being forced to level down only because of one single criterion which is success score(is it really needed for well-established sellers??). It feels like starting nursery school again after achieving distinction in college 😀 (As with new level 0, I will be competing with new sellers who have 5 orders whereas mine are 90711 orders completed)

If we consider the data from the past two years for the new level system, you will see that I have successfully completed over 90,000 orders for more than 64,000 unique clients. I have earned a seven-figure income while maintaining a 4.9 rating and a 100% response rate. These statistics prove that I have been performing exceptionally well in all areas. Without such a high level of performance, it would not be possible to have such a massive clientele and complete so many orders

I kindly request that fiverr should consider all the data equally, instead of giving priority only to the success score. For instance, the qualifying criteria for the next level is five orders, and if it's nearly 20000 times more than the decided value, then what's the benefit of that? Besides, I have already acquired 64,941 unique clients, whereas I only need three. However, currently, there seems to be no advantage, and the importance is the same as that of a new seller or level 0. Therefore, I urge you to consider all the data equally and not give undue weightage to the success score alone.

• Grace period

During the grace period, I am required to improve my ratings, response rate, number of orders, unique clients, earnings, and success score. All other criteria, except the success score which is a major factor in determining the seller's level, can be improved within a month.

However, I have completed approximately 25,000 orders in the last two years. It seems unrealistic to rectify my success score within a month with this huge number of completed orders. To change my success score, I would need to complete almost 25000 orders or more in a month, which is an unfeasible goal to achieve.

• New Review System

Fiverr provides a wide range of categories where freelancers can offer their services. These services can be either straightforward or creative in nature. However, the review system on the platform can be stressful for many professional freelancers as it primarily depends on statistics. The current review system requires clients to provide complex reviews while freelancers are only given a simple 5-star tool with a comment section. Moreover, the "value for the money" aspect of the review system is subjective in nature. The fact that a client hired a freelancer should automatically imply that they found their service worth paying for, without the need for a separate review category.

The recent metric system for reviews has been a source of confusion for many buyers. It is important to emphasize that while ratings are important, they should not overshadow the talent and skills that we bring to each project. Please make the review process effortless for buyers instead of creating a complex selection.

Other than that to conclude everything that I feel is fair.

1. Sellers who have consistently performed well on this platform for many years should be reviewed manually, rather than through AI or auto-calculation. They should be given appropriate levels based on their performance, or allowed to keep the same level as before.

2. Success Score should only consider very recent data, with a maximum of 60 days.

3. The review system should be simplified, rather than being overly complex

 Hoping to see all positive changes implemented during the grace period. 🤞

Edited February 17 by design_desk
Tagged Kesha

[emmaki]

Sorry buster, your 7 figure income means squat to Fiverr. 

Edited February 17 by emmaki
are you married by any chance? Looking?

[visualstudios]

6 minutes ago, emmaki said:

are you married by any chance? Looking?

Are you looking to marry 40 people?

[charlsmcfarlane]

8 minutes ago, design_desk said:

I have completed approximately 25,000 orders in the last two years

34 orders a day is pretty impressive.

[emmaki]

5 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Are you looking to marry 40 people?

Sure, why not, if they all work I won't have to. 

I'm British, everyone! I have an amazing passport. It was better a few years ago, but it's still quite good. Unfortunately, the British government is very old-fashioned and won't approve of me marrying 40 gentlemen 😞

[emmaki]

2 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

I just had to share this here - I found the best gig image of all time. Don't know where else to share.

Face looks a bit photoshopped. And what's going on with his fingers? They're brown. 

That is not a good color for fingers on a white person. 

[carminesannino]

27 minutes ago, emmaki said:

Well, this does also give credence to the fact Fiverr wants to make things harder for bad sellers - it's those sellers who think offering 10+ revisions is great customer service when it's obvious to most people that 10x revisions is going to be a waste of time in most verticals (and non-abusive buyers)

But has Fiverr not considered that all it has done here is to push everyone - not just bad sellers - into thinking of new strategies to avoid the new penalties? And that in a few months or years, Fiverr will inevitably need to create a new and punishing update for everyone to combat a problem that they didn't fix properly the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh (etc) time around? 

Fiverr: get a team of humans and go through everyone in the catalog manually. Tighten up your approval processes more. There is no replacement for human judgement, no matter what you and your AI-crazed advisors might think. 

I have 3 orders in revisions, since a few days. One of them is a professional who has another client who still hasn't given feedback (it's a big project and I understand that). So Fiverr is punishing me for being kind and patient? This doesn't make a lick of sense. How can anyone even think of entrusting Ai with such an evaluation...?