Important Updates: Level System (now live!) and Ratings & Reviews (testing changes)

[ahunyady]

21 minutes ago, shakir_aziz said:

is it im eleigble for TRS badge ,, sorry im very exicted for that thats why asking

Unfortunately, TRS is manually done via a non-transparent process. I was eligible for at least a year (maybe 2, I forget) before I got mine. Many who are eligible never get TRS. Many lose TRS for unspecified reasons. They don’t tell you what you have to do to get it or what you have to do to keep it. For all I know, it could be based on what you say about Fiverr on the internet or on if the reviewer is having a good day or bad day. It would be nice if they’d make it more transparent.

TLDR; don’t expect TRS right away, and if you do get it, don’t count on it staying just because you keep your stats up.

[voicedbyken]

1 minute ago, smartdezigns said:

@Kesha

Question: Will the overall Success Score be affected if we pause or delete those gigs which rarely sells? 

I believe it is now in our best interest to remove those gigs and not create new ones. This new system is not only going to hurt sellers, but it will hurt Fiverr more overall. This means no more experimenting with niche gig within our respective professions without being punished with a low score or rating drop.

This is a horrible move so far

[emmaki]

🚨 SERIOUS (LONG, 💤) POST ALERT 🚨

As I chewed on my lentil soup (with carrots), basking in the glow of my own natural genius and flair for the brilliant, I thought about all the things I said and felt before all the Good Things happened today.

===

Looking at the various responses here, you can see clearly just how the gamification works. The winners are feeling like me - relieved, happy, celebratory (someone mentioned the "exam feeling" - @priyank_mod, I think?) and are probably way less concerned about the future.

That's just the winners. On the other side, you have the losers. The people who thought they were getting TRS but are now Level 0, the weird cancellation thing, and all of that stuff. Now, I can't speak to their emotional state, but I'd bet they feel crushed, demotivated, and like all their hard work is a complete waste of time.

That's gamification creating intense emotional states. That's not healthy in a workplace, especially not in the new system in which Fiverr wants to make this whole thing a daily assessment. I am not against the idea of a much more stringent system that punishes the platform's worst performers. I am not against the idea of a system that means not everyone is a 5-star super seller, making it easier for buyers to find the best sellers in a category rather than staring at a wall of 5 star talent.

But I am against a system that basically plays God with people's emotions. It's not healthy for seller's mental health, and eventually, that can and does translate into damaging their physical health.

I should never have been placed in any doubt that I was one of Fiverr's best sellers. I should never have been put in a situation where I was worried about my future on Fiverr. Sure, I got the great points now and I'm happy with everything.

That does not excuse what is essentially an abusive system. People's lives and their income are not a game.

Despite this, Fiverr will not be walking this new rating and leveling system back no matter what the winners or losers say. And inevitably, over time, people will adjust to this new system, which means the complaining will pretty much slow as we adjust to <cringe> the "new normal".

But this is not normal, and it is not acceptable. Fiverr's gamified systems are playing with seller health and they need to be done away with. It's okay to gamify er, games, but there are many sellers who work on Fiverr who have no other source of income. They're supporting families and God knows what else, and it's not a game for them. Yes, nobody should be relying on Fiverr as a sole source of income, but that's not really the point and distracts from Fiverr's manipulation of seller emotions and psychology in its ranking systems.

It is also worth remembering that success on Fiverr often demands a total focus on Fiverr due to all the metrics, which means profiles on other freelance platforms tend to be left to wither and eventually die.

The question is will Fiverr ever listen to sellers who urge them to fix these aspects of their system? Or will something truly tragic have to happen for this complaint to be taken seriously?

Also, let's not forget the weird buyer review glitch where buyers are noticing their 5 stars aren't. It's fine for a big tech platform to have glitches from time to time. Expected, even.

But these same glitches feed into the gamification issue: a glitch can mess up a seller's metrics, leading to demotion. It's possible that glitches work the other way round, too, but I don't think I've ever heard of one.

So now you have an unfair gamification system. And if there's anything a gamer knows, a game that doesn't play by its own rules is the worst. Let me lose the game because I lack skill, not because the game bugged out or cheated me.

Fiverr has heard all of these complaints a million times by now from different voices. I will give it its due; in the past few years it has made a much bigger effort to communicate with the community and be more (sigh) transparent.

But it's still not listening enough, and the transparency has several light years to go. Fiverr needs to talk more and not just listen. All most of us want is a more active conversation with Fiverr where their questions are answered properly, not with soundbites and "passing this on" messages.

These do not help anybody and make Fiverr look like every other soulless big tech corporation out there that tramples all over its userbase in the quest for profits.

Now, I got in trouble for suggesting this might be a good idea last time (having someone actually talk to us), but I don't really care about that. I'm prepared to get in trouble again to push this as a good idea. Because it matters, and I'm prepared to go down in flames for things I think are good ideas.

Although I'd really rather not, since it is now impossible to read the Fiverr forum unless one is logged in, a curious step back for openness and transparency. It's one of the reasons I'm posting again. I can't see topics without being logged in, so I must log in, and well, of course I'm gonna drop my Very Important Thoughts in places where they are unwanted (I specialize in that).

This new review system does not fix the problems of the old review system or the other inherent problems that Fiverr has. All the soundbites about "our tests found that X worked" mean nothing to people who cannot see and verify those test results with their own eyes. The claims of transparency fall flat when serious issues are raised and subsequently ignored - as are requests to see the data behind statements like "people find 4.9 star reviews more trustworthy (I paraphrase).

For all this talk of transparency, we find Fiverr creating a punishing new system that pushes people into purchasing Seller Plus for benefits, imagined or real. That grades everyone on their ability to communicate (in English) and drives them to use ChatGPT, causing buyers to notice the oddly monotonous replies from very different sellers - yet maybe not enough to ask the important question "do you use AI"?. After all, Fiverr threw out the requirement for transparency on that front at a time when many AI advocates - and governments - are looking towards AI transparency as a matter of ethics.

Nobody's drinking the Kool-Aid here. All that's happening is that some of us are getting a joyful rush of dopamine for our "success" while others are getting crushed underfoot Fiverr's internal AI systems that only see in binary outcomes - and have no capacity to understand when it has hit a false positive.

So sort it out, eh?

===

The lentil soup (with carrots) was very tasty, but needed more salt. I also found adding a splash of vinegar really brightened up the flavor, too.

I will now go back to being flippant and about everything.

 

[bbakersvoice]

5 minutes ago, dusuacangmon said:

From last year till now, i don't see any updated benefit for Seller:

Extend the review delivery date to make endless orders complete

"silent" reviews for Fiverr

Now this rating system + value for money stat. Normally my frequent clients do 5 all the time, but now I just got 4.3 just because of the "value of money"? Fiverr doesn't want sellers to sell high to get more revenue.

 

I think there might be some truth to this statement "Fiverr doesn't want sellers to sell high to get more revenue."  I wonder if Fiverr is taking the site back to it's roots where people come here for a quick "fiverr" for $5?  Seems like a strange move but this new rating system will drive down rates over time as people's ratings come down. 

[zeecreations]

Last year you introduced a new review system and lowered the threshold to 4.2 avg stars in 60 days. 

Now you increased it back to 4.7 to maintain the level and also increased the time frame from 60 days to 2 years? Please mention the geniuses making these decisions. 

[ahunyady]

15 minutes ago, bbakersvoice said:

I want to add another thing I don't understand.  Why do buyers have such an in depth ranking system for sellers but sellers basically just have 5 simple stars to use for the buyer?  Shouldn't we have the same ranking/review system as the buyer?? 

Because buyer ratings are nearly meaningless as we can’t refuse to work with a buyer who wants to buy from us, even if they’re a 1-star rated buyer.*

*unless we’ve already completed an order with them and blocked them.

Edited February 14 by ahunyady
fixed quote

[smartdezigns]

1 minute ago, voicedbyken said:

I believe it is now in our best interest to remove those gigs and not create new ones. This new system is not only going to hurt sellers, but it will hurt Fiverr more overall. This means no more experimenting with niche gig within our respective professions without being punished with a low score or rating drop.

This is a horrible move so far

True that but I still would like to get it confirm from the Fiverr Staff so that we can take further steps/actions to improve our services/gigs. I have only 1 gig which is not selling well that's why wanted to confirm still.

But it looks like that with the addition of new changes/updates, we gotta update ourselves too.. 

[melanielm]

4 hours ago, williambryan392 said:

I've had only one consultation cancel ever, and it was last September, and I was told it won't impact my stats.

Same exact thing happened to me.

I also got a 'strong negative' on a gig that has only 5-stars and one 4.5-star back in 2019. Bad private reviews from satisfied buyers? Odd.

I commented in another thread.... this *really* isn't any more transparent than anything was before. Just more stressful.

Edited February 14 by melanielm

[bbakersvoice]

What is really strange and stressful is the disconnect between the client's public communication and then when you get these "new" ratings.  Again, I have clients I have worked with for years (who keep coming back) where I deliver early, multiple VO versions, etc. etc.  They leave a glowing review and even leave a TIP!  The rating # comes out 3.7?   They gave a low score for "value for the money" but left me a tip.  What is going on Fiverr?? 

[ahunyady]

14 minutes ago, voicedbyken said:

What are you even talking about?

I just gave you the individual Success Scores of all 9 gigs and those scores are whole numbers that the average is derived from. I showed you the math - THE CORRECT MATH! There is no other way to determine the average.

You're on a whole other subject. Just stop

You are correct. There is no weighting of gigs, can confirm from mine and I only have 4 gigs so the math is easier. It’s ridiculous. Starting a new gig may be very difficult now.

[cebooker]

Looks scary and stressful for me to be honest. I feel like my real life will be gone to drain with my family and I will have to stay up all night and all day long to make these metrics up. Hope fiverr will loosen this up a notch. Stress will impact productivity for many sellers. 

[priyank_mod]

17 minutes ago, voicedbyken said:

What are you even talking about?

I just gave you the individual Success Scores of all 9 gigs and those scores are whole numbers that the average is derived from. I showed you the math - THE CORRECT MATH! There is no other way to determine the average.

You're on a whole other subject. Just stop

No, they are not calculating the simple average of individual gig scores. 

Each gig has a weightage assigned based on number of orders, public/private scores etc and then all gig scores get averaged into the main success score. 

[emmasuebowtique]

I have a freaking level 0. What in the heck is going on here. I have 1100+ 5 star reviews. I qualify for top seller,  yet I just went from a level 2 to a level 0. Gigs that are my top performing gigs have a 4 success rate. My reviews on my profile are unbelievable, my clients absolutely adore me, I couldn't provide more perfect of service. I feel like I have exhausted all options at this point, the last 2 months on this platform have been a joke with all these changes. I pray this is a bug and the success rate is not accurate. 

[smartdezigns]

1 minute ago, priyank_mod said:

No, they are not calculating the simple average of individual gig scores. 

Each gig has a weightage assigned based on number of orders, public/private scores etc and then all gig scores get averaged into the main success score. 

Why am I having a feeling that Success Score is somewhat related to Private Reviews? 😕 Is that so?

[emmaki]

2 minutes ago, priyank_mod said:

No, they are not calculating the simple average of individual gig scores. 

Each gig has a weightage assigned based on number of orders, public/private scores etc and then all gig scores get averaged into the main success score. 

[Kesha]

4 hours ago, uk1000 said:

Isn't that going against what you told the buyers at the time they were rating. eg. doesn't/didn't the rating screen say to them it's a private rating only - so isn't it now going to be against what they had agreed at the time they rated. eg. if you said "this will be a private rating" and then it's made into a public rating/public rating score isn't that against some agreement that was in place at the time? Shouldn't you only do with the ratings that were given what you said at the time they were being given by the buyer?

Hi @uk1000! Thanks for your concern. The bulk of private ratings will remain private to sellers. Sellers will still not be able to see how buyers rated them. The difference is, in the new system, historical private ratings will now contribute to shaping your public rating, with the main emphasis placed on public form ratings. We'll be testing a balanced formula that considers the frequency of private rating scores and the value-for-money question alongside your public ratings.

 

 

[uk1000]

29 minutes ago, voicedbyken said:

What are you even talking about?

I just gave you the individual Success Scores of all 9 gigs and those scores are whole numbers that the average is derived from. I showed you the math - THE CORRECT MATH! There is no other way to determine the average.

This is what Kesha said:

On 2/1/2024 at 8:24 PM, Kesha said:

Each gig will have it's own success score. Your overall Seller success score will take into account the success scores from each of your gigs. Gigs with a higher volume of orders will have a more significant impact on your overall success score, while Gigs with fewer order histories will contribute to a lesser extent

So the "more significant impact" basically could mean they are weighting each gig's success score based on the number of orders each has had (within the time frame they're basing it on).

edit:

5 minutes ago, Kesha said:

The difference is, in the new system, historical private ratings will now contribute to shaping your public rating

What if it's a new seller (ie. who had no previous orders) and a new gig and only 1 buyer who rated the gig, who might give a high public rating but in their private rating gig a low rating for everything? Won't the public stats of that seller and gig then show a lower rating, with people (especially the seller) assuming it was that buyer (the seller's only buyer) did that low rating?

Edited February 14 by uk1000

[newsmike]

14 minutes ago, ahunyady said:

Because buyer ratings are nearly meaningless as we can’t refuse to work with a buyer who wants to buy from us, even if they’re a 1-star rated buyer.*

Of course you can refuse. Did you mean to say, "don't want to refuse for fear of cancelling?"

[rawque_gulia]

27 minutes ago, voicedbyken said:

What are you even talking about?

I just gave you the individual Success Scores of all 9 gigs and those scores are whole numbers that the average is derived from. I showed you the math - THE CORRECT MATH!

@visualstudios is absolutely right! Fiverr does not follow “simple math” to calculate your success score. Gigs with high sales will have more weightage than dead gigs with less or zero sales.

For example: If you have 10 Gigs: One Gig is very active with 500+ orders and has a Success Score of 10, and the other 9 Gigs are completely inactive and have a Success Score of 2 (on all 9 Gigs individually) --- In that case, your success score will still be ~10 because Fiverr doesn't give as much importance to dead gigs (as compared to active gigs).

P.S.: And it's already been confirmed by Fiverr staff (I think Kesha) in another thread that active gigs with more sales have more importance/weightage than inactive gigs.

Edited February 14 by rawque_gulia

[talogmd]

26 minutes ago, bbakersvoice said:

One of the rankings/categories I don't understand is "value for the money."   

It's completely moronic. If my buyer agrees to pay for my work and is happy with the delivery, then the "value for money" metric is irrelevant. I'm much cheaper than many competitors in my small niche, so getting a low "value for money" rating is quite frankly dishonest and shows that buyers want to pay less, no matter how cheap your service is. 

One of many reasons to believe that the Fiverr team has no idea how to improve this platform. 

[christiangrollm]

6 minutes ago, emmasuebowtique said:

I have a freaking level 0. What in the heck is going on here. I have 1100+ 5 star reviews. I qualify for top seller,  yet I just went from a level 2 to a level 0. Gigs that are my top performing gigs have a 4 success rate. My reviews on my profile are unbelievable, my clients absolutely adore me, I couldn't provide more perfect of service. I feel like I have exhausted all options at this point, the last 2 months on this platform have been a joke with all these changes. I pray this is a bug and the success rate is not accurate. 

That's exactly what's happening to me. I can't get my head around it.

[priyank_mod]

On 2/2/2024 at 12:10 PM, priyank_mod said:

Hii @Kesha

Small query - What time duration will be considered for this? Will it be lifetime sales of the gig or the last few months/quarters, like it's done usually on the platform? 

 

On 2/3/2024 at 12:06 AM, Kesha said:

Hi @priyank_mod! The score takes into account the history of all orders, but recent data holds more rate in the overall score. 
 

Just adding this here for context. 

 

[terrygrantvo]

24 minutes ago, bbakersvoice said:

As a "pro" voiceover talent my rates are fairly high and I do have some clients who reluctantly hire me because their clients wants to use me.   They will often try and get me to lower my rates but I don't do that. 

This is ultimately one of the most frustrating parts to this. A lot of us in VO (and I'd imagine this goes for most verticals) are already charging a 3rd of what we charge in the real world (especially when it comes to rights), as we simply can't charge standard rates here, or we'd never get hired. Seems like it'd be a good idea for them to foster an environment in which we could charge an appropriate rate because, you know, it means more money for everyone.

These new rating and leveling systems encourage the very opposite of that and I am utterly at a loss as to why they think this is a good way to treat your (actual) professional sellers.

 

I could maybe see the point of all this nonsense if they were using it as a way to shake the tree of low hanging fruit in an attempt to weed out the kids who really have no business being here, but to treat everyone like this is truly insulting.

[creativecolumn]

How to improve our Success Score in 30 day grace period, if you are considering last 2 years of orders to calculate it? Completing a $700 project already gives us only $560, now this. Not sure if it's just me, but I feel so depressed about the updates you rolling out time to time.

[voicedbyken]

3 minutes ago, priyank_mod said:

No, they are not calculating the simple average of individual gig scores. 

Each gig has a weightage assigned based on number of orders, public/private scores etc and then all gig scores get averaged into the main success score. 

Where is the information on the weight system and how can I see the weight assigned to each gig?

The only information I found on this had to do with how each individual success score is determined, not the average of the scores given. For instance: A gig with 800 5-star reviews has a heavier weightage vs a gig with 50 5-star reviews thus the 800 gig gets a score of 8 and the 50 gig gets a score of 10 due to weighted factors. This does not change the overall average of the weighted scores. Unless you can show me where it is stated otherwise, I'm chalking this up to an error like the many ppl who have nothing but 5star ratings being brought down to 3-4 star