Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[williambryan392]

30 minutes ago, emmaki said:

Will we find out more about this in the second "product release" coming this year? 

I think we almost need an entirely separate thread for speculation here. What could this next big release be?

2 things that come to mind for me are maybe...

-Listing / gig fees

-Expansion of the AI/automated (whatever it is) logo maker to other categories. 

[dereck_s]

4 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

I think we almost need an entirely separate thread for speculation here. What could this next big release be?

2 things that come to mind for me are maybe...

-Listing / gig fees

-Expansion of the logo maker to other categories. 

Logo maker feels like auto cannibalism especially since they're very selective about who they let into logo maker. I doubt they'd make listing fees because they take 20% where the other places that charge fees only take 10% but I can't rule it out of course. I don't know if I'm missing something but for me seller plus is 30 bucks but I see now that the premium seller plus (same features I had before this update) is 40 bucks?

[emmaki]

Just now, williambryan392 said:

Expansion of the logo maker to other categories. 

Video, perhaps? Or perhaps voiceovers. God knows, Fiverr has access to all their samples and if I'm not mistaken the TOS says they can do it - not a lawyer obvs: 
 

Quote

Furthermore, users (both Buyers and Sellers) agree that unless they explicitly indicate otherwise, the content users voluntarily create/upload to Fiverr, including Gig texts, photos, videos, usernames, user photos, user videos and any other information, including the display of delivered work, may be used by Fiverr for no consideration for marketing or other purposes.

🤔

I'm excluding writing as it isn't so easy to produce consistent writing based on a prompt (especially if the prompters aren't good at it) and it just doesn't seem like something that's easy to just "produce" like a cloned VO. That could change in the near future.

Video might be good (even if the videos suck) because Fiverr might be able to create a freemium model, but I'm just making stuff up now. 

[williambryan392]

Just now, dereck_s said:

. I don't know if I'm missing something but for me seller plus is 30 bucks but I see now that the premium seller plus (same features I had before this update) is 40 bucks?

I think the extra 10 bucks gets you a success manager in addition.

1 minute ago, dereck_s said:

doubt they'd make listing fees because they take 20% where the other places that charge fees only take 10% but I can't rule it out of course

yeah who knows! Pure guess work. Why not charge both though. It would again help to remove gigs that aren't performing from the platform.

2 minutes ago, dereck_s said:

Logo maker feels like auto cannibalism especially since they're very selective about who they let into logo maker.

I don't know enough about it, but if Fiverr gave me the option to earn something passively I don't think I'd hate it.

[dereck_s]

I could see Fiverr doing like a Fiverr+ account and charging a monthly fee for it with random perks they've taken from other areas. 

And at 8:30 in the morning I'm at my post limit for the day QQ. Have a good day Fiverr Family, I'll talk to you tomorrow!

Edited March 17 by dereck_s

[uk1000]

1 hour ago, emmaki said:

Video might be good (even if the videos suck) because Fiverr might be able to create a freemium model, but I'm just making stuff up now. 

I guessed video in this thread:

but I guessed they'd create the video based on still images using an existing thing (eg. if something like Sora gets released. Though there are others like Runway's Gen 2). I doubt Fiverr would have the resources to create their own AI video model (unless maybe if it was over someone else's existing one).

I think when they said "If you are passionate about driving innovation with AI, GenAI, ML, and NLP" in the job listing it's at least partly talking about generating text (like ChatGPT). Maybe it's for the AI assistants like Neo but not just for buyers, as well as analysing text (eg. could be for checking text in posts on the order page and Fiverr inbox for various things to score the seller on, detect fraud etc.).

4 hours ago, williambryan392 said:

Let's say though Fiverr looks at a 1000 different data points (I'm purely guessing at a number).

They might use that many now, though it could also be lower. If they're now using TensorFlow ranking - that can handle millions.

2 years ago Fiverr support said "The algorithm includes more than 50 variables, and one of them is the Gig ranking.".

Fiverr's article about feature selection from 2019 (https://medium.com/fiverr-engineering/feature-selection-beyond-feature-importance-9b97e5a842f)

said:

Quote

With the improvement, we didn’t see any change in model accuracy, but we saw improvement in runtime. By removing, we were able to shift from 200+ features to less than 70.

though it's not clear what that AI model was used for (whether it was part of the search ranking or something else).

In Fiverr's "detecting suspicous purchases" Youtube video at 23:28 when they're doing model evaluation they show a waterfall plot with features (9+"37 other features"=so 46 features total for that)

Edited March 17 by uk1000

[emmaki]

MidJourney apparently now does have the ability to recreate images consistently (example use case: you upload a photo of you and ask MJ to put you in a variety of scenarios/graphic styles etc. and the tech gubbins will make sure your face is consistent.) You could then plop that into one of the AIs that makes (limited) videos from images.

I don't think Fiverr necessarily needs to dev their own video model. They could just as easily leverage open source places like Hugging Face (Amazon & Google do, among others), but my tech incompetence prevents me from understanding too much of what is going on there other than "cool new stuff that someone needs to make accessible for feeble human minds like mine". 

50 minutes ago, uk1000 said:

"If you are passionate about driving innovation with AI, GenAI, ML, and NLP"

I really must take one of my worse performing gigs and do an entity experiment on it one day. Although who am I kidding, they all perform terribly at the moment 🙂

Anyways, it's only a matter of time before video becomes doable and more affordable. I still think voice cloning is more likely as a next step since while voice cloning can do "normal talking" I've yet to hear one that does "emotional" (e.g. angry yelling, snotty crying voice, not to mention the more subtle tones/emotions). So you know, someone could go to the "Voice Lab" and type in "deep american male voice" and get a bunch of results to test out with a unique piece of text. If they like the text as-is, they can pay [whatever] and a % goes to the seller. If they need more emotions or the voice just sounds weird but they otherwise love it, the buyer can check out the seller's human voice and pay full price for authentic voices. Perhaps the only question mark here would be enforcing licenses. 

Video's more complex than that (visual-audio, editing, other stuff idk) so probably just easier to snip the human out altogether, although that would be a strange move from a purported freelance platform. I guess you could send a watermarked terrible video to a seller and they could "fix it" (Neo could find by style or something, with users picking self-selecting their offered styles) by removing watermarks/making it look better/whatever. Even so, that seems like it would be a LOT more difficult to achieve than VO (expectation mismatch etc). 

But then again, this is Fiverr. Perhaps Fiverr's AI Guild will remind the CEO that a part of a guild's responsibilities is ethics and protecting human jobs. But that takes listening (verb, not noun).

Outside of creative verticals business automation might be one. AI makes an okay automation for e.g. make.com, an expert improves it. Fiverr's already in the "Certified" expert market, don't forget. My serious doubts about the validity of of the experts in it (I am one - uncertified with a gig I'm not activating, but could - is why) aside, it's one way to leverage the programs, uh, proven expertise to a wider audience.

[emmaki]

PS @uk1000 - Either Fiverr's on HS as this org or someone else called themselves this.

[uk1000]

25 minutes ago, emmaki said:

Either Fiverr's on HS as this org or someone else called themselves this

It seems like that. fiverr-ds on that site (listed as company) has 2 members Yuval Bz and Ron Tomer.

Yuval Ben-Zion is Data Science Team Leader at Fiverr according to Fiverr's blog in 2019 and Ron also works at Fiverr as a data scientist.

Though that doesn't mean they're going to release AI stuff publicly there.  They might just use that site for helping with Fiverr stuff.

Fiverr also seems to have an official github page where they public release code.

Edited March 17 by uk1000

[katherinasim]

I got the "Fiverr's choice" badge for the gig which has a "6" in Success score" 😆

[donnovan86]

5 hours ago, dereck_s said:

I could see Fiverr doing like a Fiverr+ account and charging a monthly fee for it with random perks they've taken from other areas. 

 

Either that or they add a new Seller Plus tier.

[mandyzines]

12 hours ago, jonbaas said:

So, NOW we ARE penalized if an order autocompletes, and no reviews are left?

I suspect maybe that's why Fiverr staff recently posted about urging clients to leave reviews.

11 hours ago, williambryan392 said:

I even recall seeing an email or a post from a success manager (I can't find it)

I think you might be recalling Kesha's post.

9 hours ago, farshad19rodar said:

this section is exactly unclear to me, How on earth will they assess my communication skills? Is the AI going to read through all our chats?

That was a big part of the discussion in one of these extensive threads, and I'm recalling it was as a result of Staff trying to clarify an element of the Success Score documentation. I think the unconfirmed conclusion was that AI probably does monitor order chats. We truly don't know for sure, but it makes sense...yet doesn't at the same time. 

9 hours ago, smartdezigns said:

Why the buyer's unresponsiveness behavior should affect the seller's success scores? This is not fair..

Auto-completed orders should not be included in calculating the success scores.

A return client on their 10th order with me who never (publicly) leaves reviews ordered from my newest gig and the curious part of me wants to not get another order on it for a while so I can obsess and lose sleep over the stats. (sarcasm)

 

[farshad19rodar]

Received another 5 star review! Hoping that with two 5 star reviews in one day, my success score will increase from 8 to 9, I really dont know what I need to do for this new system so I only can pray😅

[rad_graphic]

WTF review system. 😈
(What the funny) 

[smartdezigns]

34 minutes ago, rad_graphic said:

WTF review system. 😈
(What the funny) 

Welcome to the New Level System! 

[levinewman]

7 hours ago, emmaki said:

Only if one takes in good faith that success managers are privy to all the details of the new system. This is a job listing for a SM position in TLV on the main Fiverr site:

https://www.fiverr.com/jobs/QjkuRTE2

Note how the listing - correctly - refers to Fiverr Sellers as customers throughout. I like this part (describing one of the roles of the position:

That could mean many things, of course, but offering suggestions on how a thing they don't really know works would definitely "create structure in ambiguous situations". 

I don't believe they have access to as much data as we'd like to think.

There's also an opening for "Head of AI Guild" in tech:

https://www.fiverr.com/jobs/QTguMjQ3

If anyone is wondering what a/the AI Guild is, here's Perplexity AI: 

As a reminder, we are customers. We have no real say in this guild and its development, other than the time-honored vote of "walking with thy feet."

Still, I did recall @levinewman's conversation about some sort of seller representation (as far as we know, unpaid, unless Levi has an update?) within Fiverr and it's fairly obvious that whatever Fiverr's AI Guild would do would have to involve Fiverr's seller-customers to some capacity, since they deliver the AI-related services to the other half of the Fiverr customer equation. 
 

The big question is are those practitioners Fiverr staff or Fiverr customers or a combo of both? Will we find out more about this in the second "product release" coming this year? 

The other positions I looked at were boring and/or I lacked the knowledge of the things involved to make much of them. 

Right then, who wants to tell me I'm off-topic today? 

They haven't talked to me once since I said I wouldn't work for free.

[emmaki]

I guess they've blown the budget on the Head of AI Guild Guy (to be). Plus, you know, as customers of the AI Guild, we should be thankful that we're even getting a spot near the high table, where we can gaze adoringly at His Golden Eminence. 

[rudyabel]

Is anyone on this thread a fiverr representative participating in this discussion? I don't see much of any interaction with corporate. Or is that a SP feature too.  Am I missing a name? Please advise. 

Otherwise, this is fun...

..."the wheels on the bus go round and round."

[donnovan86]

5 minutes ago, rudyabel said:

Is anyone on this thread a fiverr representative participating in this discussion? I don't see much of any interaction with corporate. Or is that a SP feature too.  Am I missing a name? Please advise. 

 

This is not an official thread. There were official threads on the topic, but they were locked. Unless you tag a Fiverr representative, most likely they won't see anything here.

[levinewman]

19 minutes ago, rudyabel said:

Is anyone on this thread a fiverr representative participating in this discussion? I don't see much of any interaction with corporate. Or is that a SP feature too.  Am I missing a name? Please advise. 

Regardless of what you may have read or heard, Fiverr leadership hold very little regard for sellers. I say this based on 10 years of very real experience here and having had quite a lot of face to face contact with them. It's my perspective, certainly, but one I'm sure many others "at the top" can affirm. 

[visualstudios]

1 hour ago, rudyabel said:

Or is that a SP feature too. 

Nah, they don't really listen to us either.

[mandyzines]

2 hours ago, rudyabel said:

Is anyone on this thread a fiverr representative participating in this discussion? I don't see much of any interaction with corporate.

It got a little wild where Staff was interacting in the original announcement thread that was closed after about as many pages. So, here's where people vent and new announcements automatically have comment capability shut off.

You could just ignore everything but the news section of the forum.

[ch6k0r]

8 minutes ago, mandyzines said:

It got a little wild where Staff was interacting in the original announcement thread that was closed after about as many pages. So, here's where people vent and new announcements automatically have comment capability shut off.

You could just ignore everything but the news section of the forum.

I really hope that they are noticing the chaos

[mandyzines]

4 minutes ago, ch6k0r said:

I really hope that they are noticing the chaos

They are reading the thread. I've seen familiar names as well as users without names browsing though it.

[priyank_mod]

10 hours ago, farshad19rodar said:

Received another 5 star review! Hoping that with two 5 star reviews in one day, my success score will increase from 8 to 9, I really dont know what I need to do for this new system so I only can pray😅

There is no way to figure this out and I'm glad there isn't. Else it would become very easy for Meksells to manipulate the system. 

 

I also have some hypotheses🙈 about pausing/deleting gigs. I'm assuming when we pause/delete a gig to improve the success score - system might be configured to retain the impact of deleted/paused gig for a few months or may be 1-2 years. 🧐

This also aligns with the initial assurance that success score is supposed to be relatively stable. @smartdezigns