Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[emmaki]

42 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

we have very limited power.

Not at all - this is a classic fallacy. When the majority unites and does something with real unity and purpose, it can achieve a lot.

However, it's hard to see how Fiverr sellers will ever get there; one of the nice things about gamification, of course, is that it promotes competition. Nothing wrong with that (or indeed in a capitalist setting). Then of course you have the global nature of the workforce and other stuff.

For now, the wisest course does seem to be to just expand and grow elsewhere, eggs/baskets etc., but that doesn't solve the fundamental issue that the duopoly of FIverr/Upwork presents.

<adjusts glasses>

[smashradio]

3 hours ago, frank_d said:

And to make matters worse, the initial batch of users that got the $19 price were a little over 100 people.

So Fiverr decided to squander any trust built initially just to get 100 or so people to pay like everyone else.

Fiverr built the entire feature by testing it on that initial group of sellers and for the longest time, the entire program was pretty much deprived of features.

I purchased it at $29, and it wouldn't bother me if they increased the price to $39, $49, or even $99. I don't care. But raising the price on the groups of sellers who contributed to developing the feature as a form of "thanks" for a discount, only to earn a few thousand bucks more per year, is low. 

[Alex.M]

15 minutes ago, smashradio said:

it wouldn't bother me if they increased the price to $39, $49, or even $99. I don't care

It wouldn't bother me either if at least I could get a decent amount of sales If I wouldn't live in fear of getting banned because AI says so... if I wouldn't be penalized when the buyer decides to cancel orders because they ordered ' by mistake ' ... and many other things 

[cucinavivace]

2 hours ago, emmaki said:

• Buyer-B-Gon! SPP members now have exclusive access to the block button before, during and after an order! When you press the button, a pleasing video of SWAT closing in on the terrified Fbuyer will play. HAH! Take that, bad buyer!

Add no effect on metrics and sign me the **** up!

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, emmaki said:

For now, the wisest course does seem to be to just expand and grow elsewhere, eggs/baskets etc., but that doesn't solve the fundamental issue that the duopoly of FIverr/Upwork presents.

 

100%

1 hour ago, emmaki said:

Not at all - this is a classic fallacy. When the majority unites and does something with real unity and purpose, it can achieve a lot.

 

I mean, the majority united with this review/level system and realistically nothing changed.  But I agree, trying to find alternatives and expanding is the right way to go here.

[emmaki]

I can do better than that! 

• Metric Madness! Join Seller Plus Premium+ Elite ($97) and never worry about metrics again! We'll slip the algo $5 every time you complete an order so Neo knows you're a "good guy" nudge nudge, wink wink
• Fiverr-Star! What's that? You want more 5-star reviews, but you don't want to break the TOS by asking nicely? No problem! With Fiverr-Star, every review magically transforms into a glowing 5-star review, no matter what your buyer thinks!
• Video Raves! Who wants to read boring old written testimonials when you can have an beautiful, scantily-clad AI vixen breathily tell everyone what a stary you are in a husky voice with come-to-bed eyes, right at the top of your profile! AI-generated only. Results may not be accurate. 

[smashradio]

17 minutes ago, Alex.M said:

It wouldn't bother me either if at least I could get a decent amount of sales If I wouldn't live in fear of getting banned because AI says so... if I wouldn't be penalized when the buyer decides to cancel orders because they ordered ' by mistake ' ... and many other things 

Yes, when decisions are made by an AI algo and responses to our questions come from teenagers using GPT, expectations naturally adjust. If it's not financially sensible for you, canceling is the right move. I'm not advising anyone to stick with SP, that's just my personal choice. 

But it's downright cheeky for Fiverr to hike prices on those who spent hours helping to build the features. I spent hours in roundtables for this and other features over the years. It's just a slap in the face. Nothing more, nothing less. 

[donnovan86]

53 minutes ago, Alex.M said:

if I wouldn't be penalized when the buyer decides to cancel orders because they ordered ' by mistake ' ... and many other things 

Wait until Fiverr starts canceling older, inactive orders. I have more than a dozen of those in queue, and I think they will damage the succes score even if it's Fiverr canceling them, not the buyer. Some of those are close to 2 years old..

[priyank_mod]

7 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Wait until Fiverr starts canceling older, inactive orders. I have more than a dozen of those in queue, and I think they will damage the succes score even if it's Fiverr canceling them, not the buyer. Some of those are close to 2 years old..

I had one such cancellation in the last week of Dec'23 but it had no visible impact on my stats or gig performance. I didn't receive any notification either - order just disappeared from the dashboard queue. 

[williambryan392]

9 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Wait until Fiverr starts canceling older, inactive orders.

I'd like that to happen, assuming it doesn't impact the score (which I believe if it's in the requirements section it doesn't). Having orders stuck in requirements stresses me and gives me a warped view of how much work I have on. I'd like an order to auto cancel if it's in the requirements for say 60 days.

9 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

I mean, the majority united with this review/level system and realistically nothing changed. 

11 hours ago, emmaki said:

When the majority unites and does something with real unity and purpose, it can achieve a lot.

Did the majority unite here? I'm not sure. We've seen some posts from newer/aspiring sellers saying they like having more data.

Perhaps others are scared (for want of a better word) to voice approval because a lot of vocal forum veterans are against it, and they want to avoid the conflict. Perhaps this is also true of some of the unusually silent forum veterans. I've tried to take a middle ground on this, devils advocate etc, but I've received some unpleasantness because of it, and I'm a confident, native English speaker who is TRS and Pro. If it can put me off posting then I'm sure it can do the same to others. I don't know. Like with private reviews... unhappy people do it, happy people do it far less.

I'd guestimate, from what I've seen that aside from mentions of accounts being flagged, far less than 4000 people came to the forum or reddit to voice their annoyance. 4000 is approximately 1% of active sellers. Even if for every one person that voices disdain there were 10 that were equally annoyed but didn't mention it, that would still only be 10%.

Perhaps this levels update is actually very popular (I'm not saying it is, I don't know), but in this forum echo chamber it just seems like it isn't. The false consensus effect.

Take this thread for example.... 1400+ replies, yet 370+ are from 4 people. That's 26%.

The second comment on this thread: 'I don find any better with this new leveling system, its a messy thing and a bad update for old seller with a decade working on Fiverr, very disappointed' got less than 100 reactions.

The top ten commenters are responsible 612 posts. That's 44%.

So, in actual fact a tiny, tiny fraction of sellers are actually coming here saying they're annoyed, or agreeing with the annoyance. Like I say, could this be the 'The false consensus effect.'

I suppose I just don't think it's a big enough data sample to know whether people overall actually like or don't like this update. I myself have mixed feelings. I'm just not on the 'Fiverr is terrible bandwagon'. It's never been perfect, and it never will. I have always been on the 'you should diversify' bandwagon though. That's common sense and something I know every forum veteran has always advocated for.

 

Also apologies for the long wall of text, I don't like reading these either.

[emmaki]

No, sellers have never united. That's my point. The problem is that we're in a capitalist system and many people won't speak up due to fear of losing something (primarily income, but the gamification element plays in strongly here as well with constant reminders). Sellers who have only known success are also prone to thinking that this won't change (I am guilty of this as are many others - not just on Fiverr, it's a human malady). 

The system is well-designed in this respect. 

It's very simple, really: will sellers ever, as a block, strike? Probably not. Will some sellers see the very obvious opportunity to make money/join the platform and start while most sellers are striking? Probably yes. Will this have long-term consequences for the strikers? Almost certainly. 

This is one for government regulation - but that's another issue. In the developing world, Fiverr is seen as an economic boost. I forget which countries are doing this (SE/S Asia IIRC), there are gov't sponsored programs to train people in computer literacy and skills specifically so they can make money on platforms like Fiverr and bring more $$$ into often bad economies. 

Many successful sellers also host IRL seminars. The subcontinent in particular). Most sellers don't use the forum, either. 

Either way, the only choice anyone really has is to just walk away, and that's not feasible or desirable for everyone. Me? I'm choosing to stay and shout a lot. I told the CEO to his face in 2017 that the levels idea was a bad idea, but he didn't listen. But I still did it, when the other seller next to me thought it was a bad idea even though he privately agreed with me. 

I speak for the people who can't, or won't, or who are too exhausted to. The simple fact of this world is that when the majority unites, things change. Until they do, things stay the same as they benefit people in power. 

Even when change comes, it usually gets corrupted quickly, so I'm not suggesting that a mini-revolt will fix issues: just that new ones will surface quickly 🙂 

[donnovan86]

3 hours ago, priyank_mod said:

I had one such cancellation in the last week of Dec'23 but it had no visible impact on my stats or gig performance. I didn't receive any notification either - order just disappeared from the dashboard queue. 

Yeah well I have 17 of those. And there was no success score back in December when they canceled around 20 for me. So that's why I am worries. We are in the dark, we don't know how things work, so obviously you're worried that stuff might not work the way you want. 

[emmaki]

I finally have a (serious) idea that would add value to Fiverr, courtesy of @williambryan392's post about buffering consults earlier today:

• AUTOMATION SUPERPOWER: Hey you, yes, you. Do you love automating stuff so you can stare into the abyss wondering where it all went wrong without getting distracted by other people's petty needs? Your Seller Plus Premium Pro+ Elite Super ($500/month) and gain EX-CLU-SIVE access to our API that hooks up your Fiverr account with your Zapier, Make.com, and all other popular auto-solutions. Use ChatGPT 
  • Use ChatGPT assistants to reply to boring queries like a boss and convert everytime!
  • Send your welcome packs, onboarding packs, and any other buyer-impressing things automatically!
  • Hook up all your favorite software in one absurdly long chain that does all the work for you!
  • Whatever else you can imagine! 

Will this happen? No! This is unfortunate, since Fiverr is pushing for higher prices and human-supported AI services at a time when the trend is very much faster productivity, at lower (or same old) prices and fewer humans. This does not include the ghastly and damaging non-disclosure policy. 

ChatGPT 5 is coming out soon, along with its Sora (video) models and potentially voice cloning models, although they may not do the cloning as they are "concerned" about deception and manipulation on that front. Apparently, it's really good - makes 11labs look a bit tired and rubbish. 

Point being, there are people out there who can build entire funnels and business processes using nothing but Google Workspace (or more secure apps) and OpenAI to create an entirely human-feeling and sounding experience for the customer who are not really any the wiser, since on the face of it, it just looks like a bog-standard automated email experience from a particularly flash company. 

And because these can be templated, the cost can be either dirt cheap or on value. I will leave you, the reader, to conclude which parts of the world are capitalizing on this the most and with the dirt cheap model. They're not on Fiverr, either. 

Fiverr does not even realize just how far behind the AI zeitgeist it is - but what else can one expect from a company that breaks promises to raid the piggy banks of a couple hundred sellers for - at most - $3,800 more a month. 

If I ever get to the point where I am competent enough to start one of these businesses (or find someone competent enough to work with me on this), I won't be selling these services on Fiverr.

 

 

[yourbrandingpal]

Don't overthink, just sue them for unfair trade practices 

[emmaki]

That needs regulation from local governments or organizations like the EU in a largely unregulated global marketplace.

Fiverr, I believe, has this as a "risk" somewhere in its investor docs. For all their ESG talk, actually supporting freelancers is a risk to their business model. The ESG talk is just corporate flim-flam. 

 

[mandyzines]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone type that fast in my entire life.

[yourbrandingpal]

I was referring to consumer laws. why not consult with a lawyer and see if there are grounds? One of my clients is based in Romania, got DMCA takedown request, made changes still received DMCA, initiated legal action. One of the things I learnt in business laws is that whatever the terms are, they can't be illegal. I have 3 ongoing cases against my service providers for misleading, deceptive and unfair trade practices, gotta see where it goes. Time will tell.

[yourbrandingpal]

Gotta put up a fight instead of allowing questionable things to be normalised you know 

[yourbrandingpal]

Otherwise whats the use of all these constitutional rights and freedom and the fights our forefathers have fought for a better future

[Alex.M]

12 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Wait until Fiverr starts canceling older, inactive orders.

Well, this happened to me already around 2-3  years ago.... and  I had more than 120 orders from the past 10 years without any kind of instructions, all of them were cancelled '' without affecting my account '' as they said.. Now I am wondering if my account is affected by those cancellations or not... Good point here

[cucinavivace]

4 hours ago, emmaki said:

No, sellers have never united. That's my point. The problem is that we're in a capitalist system and many people won't speak up due to fear of losing something (primarily income, but the gamification element plays in strongly here as well with constant reminders).

This is the biggest drawback of "gig" economics, and it goes beyond fear of losing. There are always new people coming into the system to replace anyone who leaves. Mobilizing in total for a "strike" or any show of actual control over the situation is nearly impossible because everyone is everywhere with no way to reach most of them, never mind all of them. And even if you could, a large percentage of them are new enough or hungry enough to think powering through with you gone means a bigger piece of the pie for them, so they don't really want to get involved. You can't really expect someone who only needs $50 a day to survive and can still do that here to be united with you because you're not making $400 a day anymore. They need the $50.

The end result is the same end result we see on competitive pricing. Volume may not change, and quality or geographic concentration or anyone's individual great performance in the system becomes secondary to that volume. If the top walks, the bottom survives and becomes the status quo. It is one more way the rich persevere and the poor stay poor while doing both automatically squeezes the life out of the middle bit by bit. It was different when local competition was the driving competition. Now that anyone anywhere can compete with you, it's a common thing in all small-operator industries.

Edited April 4 by cucinavivace

[emmaki]

Very well said! 

[goldenlily]

14 hours ago, williambryan392 said:

I'd like that to happen, assuming it doesn't impact the score (which I believe if it's in the requirements section it doesn't). Having orders stuck in requirements stresses me and gives me a warped view of how much work I have on. I'd like an order to auto cancel if it's in the requirements for say 60 days.

Did the majority unite here? I'm not sure. We've seen some posts from newer/aspiring sellers saying they like having more data.

Perhaps others are scared (for want of a better word) to voice approval because a lot of vocal forum veterans are against it, and they want to avoid the conflict. Perhaps this is also true of some of the unusually silent forum veterans. I've tried to take a middle ground on this, devils advocate etc, but I've received some unpleasantness because of it, and I'm a confident, native English speaker who is TRS and Pro. If it can put me off posting then I'm sure it can do the same to others. I don't know. Like with private reviews... unhappy people do it, happy people do it far less.

I'd guestimate, from what I've seen that aside from mentions of accounts being flagged, far less than 4000 people came to the forum or reddit to voice their annoyance. 4000 is approximately 1% of active sellers. Even if for every one person that voices disdain there were 10 that were equally annoyed but didn't mention it, that would still only be 10%.

Perhaps this levels update is actually very popular (I'm not saying it is, I don't know), but in this forum echo chamber it just seems like it isn't. The false consensus effect.

Take this thread for example.... 1400+ replies, yet 370+ are from 4 people. That's 26%.

The second comment on this thread: 'I don find any better with this new leveling system, its a messy thing and a bad update for old seller with a decade working on Fiverr, very disappointed' got less than 100 reactions.

The top ten commenters are responsible 612 posts. That's 44%.

So, in actual fact a tiny, tiny fraction of sellers are actually coming here saying they're annoyed, or agreeing with the annoyance. Like I say, could this be the 'The false consensus effect.'

I suppose I just don't think it's a big enough data sample to know whether people overall actually like or don't like this update. I myself have mixed feelings. I'm just not on the 'Fiverr is terrible bandwagon'. It's never been perfect, and it never will. I have always been on the 'you should diversify' bandwagon though. That's common sense and something I know every forum veteran has always advocated for.

 

Also apologies for the long wall of text, I don't like reading these either.

Regarding this, I didn't know this thread existed until today, so I think there are a lot of sellers who are concerned but did not know where to go. 

[goldenlily]

The BIGGEST issue I think we can all agree on, is that we don't know what to do with this new information we're getting or how to improve based on the lack of specificity--all it is doing is causing us to become deflated and stressed. If there were clear suggestions for what I specifically need to do to improve communication, or client satisfaction, etc., then I could take action to fix it. But when you think you are doing everything right, and you see "Strong Negative Impact" even though you have 5 stars reviews, it leaves me unable to take action to fix it. 

And because this system is run by AI, we don't even know if the data is being processed accurately for our type of work. If we at least knew what the AI was looking for, we could do a better job catering to the buyer experience. 

The is from someone who has been on the platform since 2014, and has tons of returning buyers, 5-star rating--I think it's fair to say that this feedback about the new system is coming from veteran sellers who truly care about the quality of work they create. 

[karyface1]

On 4/3/2024 at 2:36 PM, donnovan86 said:

Wait until Fiverr starts canceling older, inactive orders. I have more than a dozen of those in queue, and I think they will damage the succes score even if it's Fiverr canceling them, not the buyer. Some of those are close to 2 years old..

That happened to me months ago... Fiverr cancelled lots of inactive orders and it affected my account so bad... even when fiverr said it wouldn't