Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[katherinasim]

Does anyone see any changes in your Success Score Stats? In March I have completed 7 orders, 6 of them with 5 star rating (1 autocompleted), 2 of them with the "Fiverr's choice" badge, and still this gig has a score of "6" and strong negative in "client satisfaction" 😅 I have no idea how to improve it

[vhskid]

58 minutes ago, katherinasim said:

Does anyone see any changes in your Success Score Stats? In March I have completed 7 orders, 6 of them with 5 star rating (1 autocompleted), 2 of them with the "Fiverr's choice" badge, and still this gig has a score of "6" and strong negative in "client satisfaction" 😅 I have no idea how to improve it

My SS went 1 up recently, but I haven't had any new orders / reviews since January.

[donnovan86]

12 minutes ago, vhskid said:

My SS went 1 up recently, but I haven't had any new orders / reviews since January.

Clearly a sign that things are being changed in the background. I didn't have any SS change, however for one of my gigs the client satisfaction went from negative impact to severe negative impact. And that gig had 2 orders the past 6 months. Last one was reviewed before the new level system and success score. So I have no idea what brought that change :))

 

[cucinavivace]

1 hour ago, katherinasim said:

Does anyone see any changes in your Success Score Stats? In March I have completed 7 orders, 6 of them with 5 star rating (1 autocompleted), 2 of them with the "Fiverr's choice" badge, and still this gig has a score of "6" and strong negative in "client satisfaction" 😅 I have no idea how to improve it

I posted a couple days ago about my score mysteriously going up 1 with no additional orders like vhskid. Before that I had 4 orders all in a couple days that a week or so later seemed to bump me up 1 as well. Total 2. Enough to keep my new demotion to Level 1. Not enough to get me back to Level 2. No change in the gig score for the gig that had those orders. The gig that hasn't had any orders in months went up a point inexplicably a few days ago.

 

Edited March 27 by cucinavivace

[donnovan86]

13 minutes ago, cucinavivace said:

I posted a couple days ago about my score mysteriously going up 1 with no additional orders like vhskid. Before that I had 4 orders all in a couple days that a week or so later seemed to bump me up 1 as well.

I can only assume you had a great private review that boosted your stats.

[vhskid]

17 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Clearly a sign that things are being changed in the background. I didn't have any SS change, however for one of my gigs the client satisfaction went from negative impact to severe negative impact. And that gig had 2 orders the past 6 months. Last one was reviewed before the new level system and success score. So I have no idea what brought that change :))

 

I would assume that this is an effect of the scores being dependent on other sellers' performance but it might be "fine-tuning" by Fiverr's product team as well.

 

Edited March 27 by vhskid

[cucinavivace]

4 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I can only assume you had a great private review that boosted your stats.

I might assume so as well, but the gig score on that gig didn't move. The gig with no orders for months went up. If my SS went up because of a better customer satisfaction ratio thanks to good private ratings, I would expect it to be reflected in that gig's customer satisfaction and everything's completely the same there. "Customer satisfaction: strong negative impact" and gig score 6.

None of it makes a lot of sense.

Edited March 27 by cucinavivace

[whildebrand]

@donnovan86 - Regarding employment status. 

The employment status is not dependent on a contract. There may be some jurisdictions where contracts override employment law, but in most European countries and jurisdictions, employment law takes precedence over any contracts. In Europe, the employment status is not decided by Fiverr, a contract, or what you as a freelancer belief your status to be. It is determined by the tax authorities when they examine your invoices and the overall nature of your work relationship. The United Kingdom and Ireland may be different, as they have a highly contract-based legal system, and their employment laws are some of the more liberal and deregulated in the Western world.

Many EU countries have very high employment costs. As a result, many companies have decided not to employ workers directly but instead engage them as freelancers. This is a well-known practice. However, since this has been abused in the past, employment laws have become stricter in Europe, and most countries have precisely regulated when an individual is considered a "freelancer" and when they are deemed an employee. This determination is not made by a company contract (though it can carry some weight) but is evaluated during tax audits. I know this from experience, because I have been in a similar situation before.

It is especially risky if you, as a freelancer, only invoice one company, say Fiverr. If there is a tax audit, that is when alarms could go off, and they will scrutinize your invoice history and then determine whether you were employed or genuinely freelancing. Again, in Europe you do not determine or control this situation, nor does the company. The government does. This, of course, will then have tax implications, among other consequences.

The situation becomes more complicated when you are living in an EU country and are working for a company residing in a non-EU jurisdiction. I suppose the first question would be your status, the second who has jurisdiction, the third question would be how your status will impact your tax situation. Also keep in mind, that the government doesn't really care if you interact with many clients. They only look at who you send invoices too. So you may be working with many clients on Fiverr, but at the end of the year, after you receive your Statement of Earnings from Fiverr, you only send one invoice to Fiverr. How many clients you have, is not determined by who you interact with, but who you send invoices too. So for the government, you only have one client not many clients. And if you only have one client over a period of many years, the government may suspect your freelance work relationship is an attempt to bypass employment laws.

Since every country has different laws, it is best to consult your tax advisor and ensure you are not operating in any grey zones that could come back to haunt you later. If you live in an EU country and want to play it safe, ensure you invoice more than one client and avoid working for just one company. You could also contact Fiverr support for more insights, but my guess is, they would refer you back to your tax advisor. I would recommend one that has experience with international jurisdictions. 

Edited March 28 by whildebrand

[donnovan86]

5 minutes ago, whildebrand said:

The employment status is not dependent on a contract.

Still, Fiverr didn't hire you. You are not employed by Fiverr. You are just an independent contractor, and that doesn't change, regardless of where you live. The only people employed by Fiverr are those they hired, like customer support professionals, their dev team, their success managers, etc. We are just contractors using their platform. So they don't pay/handle our taxes, we don't get any benefits a hired person would normally get. I doubt any country can force this onto Fiverr, because that's the nature of the platform.

It's just like Uber or Bolt, or any other similar apps/services. You're not working for those platforms, they are not seen as your employer. In fact, you can drive for both or even more than 2 apps at once. Same with freelancing. These apps allow you to make money, but you are liable for any taxes.

I agree with you, everyone should talk with an accountant/expert. However, it all started with the assumption that people think they are hired by Fiverr and should receive compensation because they are not getting any orders. So yeah, while there will always be certain local laws that differ, what remains the same is that Fiverr is a platform where you sell services, not your employer if you are a freelancer. I find that funny, because some sellers here expected compensation for being on the platform with 0 sales. But everyone should go to a local accountant to get things sorted and avoid any gray areas, as you said, if you are making money on the platform. Because every country has its own, convoluted way of dealing with freelancers. 
 

[whildebrand]

2 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Still, Fiverr didn't hire you. You are not employed by Fiverr. You are just an independent contractor, and that doesn't change, regardless of where you live. The only people employed by Fiverr are those they hired, like customer support professionals, their dev team, their success managers, etc. We are just contractors using their platform. So they don't pay/handle our taxes, we don't get any benefits a hired person would normally get. I doubt any country can force this onto Fiverr, because that's the nature of the platform.

It's just like Uber or Bolt, or any other similar apps/services. You're not working for those platforms, they are not seen as your employer. In fact, you can drive for both or even more than 2 apps at once. Same with freelancing. These apps allow you to make money, but you are liable for any taxes.

I agree with you, everyone should talk with an accountant/expert. However, it all started with the assumption that people think they are hired by Fiverr and should receive compensation because they are not getting any orders. So yeah, while there will always be certain local laws that differ, what remains the same is that Fiverr is a platform where you sell services, not your employer if you are a freelancer. I find that funny, because some sellers here expected compensation for being on the platform with 0 sales. But everyone should go to a local accountant to get things sorted and avoid any gray areas, as you said, if you are making money on the platform. Because every country has its own, convoluted way of dealing with freelancers. 
 

Let's agree that we disagree on the employment status. But I can tell you, that I had to learn the hard way. 
 

Edited March 28 by whildebrand

[donnovan86]

Just now, whildebrand said:

Let's agree that we disagree.  

Well it's not about local taxes and laws.

So you agree people with 0 sales on Fiverr should be compensated because they just created an account? Because that's where it all started, some sellers with 0 sales were asking for compensation because they are working FOR Fiverr. Which obviously is not the case. 

Sure, there are legal requirements and implications based on the country. But Fiverr didn't hire those sellers and they are asking for money as compensation... that's very funny to me. 

[donnovan86]

3 minutes ago, whildebrand said:

Let's agree that we disagree on the employment status. But I can tell you, that I had to learn the hard way. 

I can imagine. That's why I've been working with an expert since day 1, I heard various horror stories. I know these tax laws are convoluted and hard to tackle. So I 100% agree with you with the tax things you said. I just wanted to let you know that this entire conversation started from sellers with 0 sales asking for compensation from Fiverr because they were not getting orders due to the new level system. That's why I was telling here they are not hired by Fiverr. That was all. Creating an account on a platform doesn't immediately mean they hired you and you receive benefits and compensation 🙂  

Hopefully other people see our conversation and they are encouraged to talk with a tax expert, so they get their stuff in order. 

[whildebrand]

Regarding your statement "It's just like Uber or Bolt, or any other similar apps/services." 

Actually, remember when the UK banned Uber in London? They came to some form of license agreement in the meantime, which is valid for 18 months as I recall. But it hasn't been as straightforward as you suggest. Ubers legal team is definitely a very big department within the company and I am sure they are hard at work to exploit any loophole they can find. 

[whildebrand]

9 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Well it's not about local taxes and laws.

So you agree people with 0 sales on Fiverr should be compensated because they just created an account? Because that's where it all started, some sellers with 0 sales were asking for compensation because they are working FOR Fiverr. Which obviously is not the case. 

Sure, there are legal requirements and implications based on the country. But Fiverr didn't hire those sellers and they are asking for money as compensation... that's very funny to me. 

I wasn't aware of that. 

If there is 0 sales, there is no invoice. If you have no invoices you have a non-issue. 

I was highlighting the situation as it could present itself to freelancers on the platform if they live in the EU and are only invoicing one company. I think we all agree that we want to be independent freelancers and also strive to make it work for us.

I cannot speak on behalf of Fiverr as I am not a lawyer and that is also not my concern.

[donnovan86]

3 minutes ago, whildebrand said:

Ubers legal team is definitely a very big department within the company and I am sure they are hard at work to exploit any loophole they can find. 

Similarly to Fiverr's legal side I assume. I am sure Fiverr doesn't want any kind of major liability. 

Just now, whildebrand said:

I cannot speak on behalf of Fiverr as I am not a lawyer and that is also not my concern.

Yep. Everyone needs to have an expert look into their own stuff. It was nice chatting with you 🙂 Going offline.

[crawford_copy]

I've been getting a lot of reviews like this recently.

It's obvious that buyers still don't understand the "Value" question.

I suspect they believe they're rating Fiverr's value (fees etc.) rather than the value of the seller's work.

[abdheshkjha]

On 3/28/2024 at 12:54 AM, katherinasim said:

Does anyone see any changes in your Success Score Stats? In March I have completed 7 orders, 6 of them with 5 star rating (1 autocompleted), 2 of them with the "Fiverr's choice" badge, and still this gig has a score of "6" and strong negative in "client satisfaction" 😅 I have no idea how to improve it

Same happening with me. I have completed around 10 orders, 8 of them with 5 star rating. But there has nothing been changed in the Success Score Stats.

[marinanp86]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:09 PM, donnovan86 said:

It's just like Uber or Bolt, or any other similar apps/services. You're not working for those platforms, they are not seen as your employer. In fact, you can drive for both or even more than 2 apps at once. Same with freelancing. 

Allow me to correct you, but that is according to the laws of the country, since in my country Uber does have an employment relationship with its drivers 🙂

Note: The Private Drivers Union of the Federal Capital decided to add drivers who work for Uber to its ranks, considering that the drivers of the application would be under a dependency relationship with the multinational passenger transport company in private cars.
“The union aims to square these workers within Argentine laws to protect them.. We know that just by the fact that the drivers bill the application there is already a dependency relationship”

Edited March 29 by marinanp86

[marinanp86]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:17 PM, donnovan86 said:

I just wanted to let you know that this entire conversation started from sellers with 0 sales asking for compensation from Fiverr because they were not getting orders due to the new level system. 

Anyway friend, here with whildebrand we were not talking about your conversation and the ridiculous people who expect compensation with 0 sales.
We're not even talking about compensation.
We were talking about how strange it is how Fiver treats its sellers so insultingly. Since we represent 50% of this platform and its profits (that is, we are very important, more than they want us to believe). Nothing more, it was just a comment. Greetings!

[marinanp86]

5 hours ago, abdheshkjha said:

Same happening with me. I have completed around 10 orders, 8 of them with 5 star rating. But there has nothing been changed in the Success Score Stats.

Exactly the same here. Two full orders with 5 stars, tip, great feedback. My metric hasn't even moved.

It doesn't close my calculations:
1 negative rating can taint your entire record and reduce your account to nothing.
But many positive ratings cannot improve your ranking.

Great Fiver 👏

[donnovan86]

14 minutes ago, marinanp86 said:

Allow me to correct you, but that is according to the laws of the country, since in my country Uber does have an employment relationship with its drivers 🙂

Yep, as I said in another message. It differs from country to country. Some countries will establish certain rules when it comes to freelancing or ride sharing, or any independent activity. But that's the exception, not the norm worldwide. You are still not employed by Fiverr, which was the point of the entire discussion 🙂 

3 minutes ago, marinanp86 said:

1 negative rating can taint your entire record and reduce your account to nothing.

Yeah, because not a lot of people leave private reviews. At least in my experience, only those that are unhappy do. And since Fiverr sees private reviews as more important than those public ones, if you just have a bad private review or 1 bad private review and one good one, it's easy to see why they show your gig has a "Strong negative impact". I have a gig which in the past 3 years only had 5 star reviews. Yet the buyer satisfaction showed negative impact, and a few days ago it changed to "Strong negative impact". It only had 2 orders in the past 5 months, each with a 5 star review, and the last order was 2 months ago. Before the review system and level system was active. How can things change from negative to strong negative without any order or review.. not to mention all reviews were very positive? Clearly either someone left me a bad private review by mistake without knowing, and as you can see, there are a lot of private metrics that we just don't have access to. That's why the success score feels random without access to that data. Realistically, as long as they guarantee people their private reviews will never be shared, we will never have access to that data. And as others said, how can you improve without having the full picture of what happened? 

We can blame sellers who scammed buyers and manipulated the system to their own benefit. That's why private reviews were implemented, the new leveling system, etc. And I am sure Fiverr will continue to add these anti-seller measures. Which is unfortunate because it affects legit sellers. I had more reviews under 5 stars in the first 3 months of this year than all of last year combined... 

[marinanp86]

20 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

You are still not employed by Fiverr, which was the point of the entire discussion 🙂 

No. No one here talked about being a Fiver employee, only you mentioned it 🥴
Having an employment relationship is not being an employee specifically. But maybe you don't understand these laws because they don't exist in your country, and I understand that, but let's try not to take this into an infinite and absurd loop. For my part, that topic is already finished 👌

20 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

We can blame sellers who scammed buyers and manipulated the system to their own benefit. That's why private reviews were implemented, the new leveling system, etc. And I am sure Fiverr will continue to add these anti-seller measures. Which is unfortunate because it affects legit sellers. I had more reviews under 5 stars in the first 3 months of this year than all of last year combined... 

I think they took the most absurd measures that exist.
It is not the only platform of this type, and no other one took them for having abusive measures from the seller.
In fact, it is enough to have an account by identification, and eliminate the accounts of sellers with repeated complaints of extortion or manipulation, there was no need to punish the entire platform and place metrics that make no sense and work defectively.

Edited March 29 by marinanp86

[charlsmcfarlane]

On 3/27/2024 at 8:27 PM, vhskid said:

My SS went 1 up recently, but I haven't had any new orders / reviews since January.

If it’s taking into account a specific time frame, for example the last 24 months, then changes can happen at any time. Let’s say you had a negative private review 24 months ago. As soon as you hit 24 months and one day, that negative review isn’t impacting you any more, so your score would seem to inexplicably increase.

I have no idea if this is how it works, I’m just guessing at what could cause movement like this with no orders.

13 hours ago, crawford_copy said:

It's obvious that buyers still don't understand the "Value" question.

I suspect they believe they're rating Fiverr's value (fees etc.) rather than the value of the seller's work.

Unfortunately, I think you’re right. However, even if you could be certain that customers completely understand it, it’s still a flawed metric. Asking for buyers to rate the price (a variable) and the quality (another variable) in one question means that any ratings left by a buyer are ambiguous at best (misleading at worst). Not to mention that buyers agreed the price when they started, so the price shouldn’t be a factor — only the quality of delivery.

[cucinavivace]

18 minutes ago, charlsmcfarlane said:

If it’s taking into account a specific time frame, for example the last 24 months, then changes can happen at any time. ... I have no idea if this is how it works ...

AARGH! What a common sense thing for me to forget. Yes, they do say 2 years. I had it stuck in my head it was 2 years of private ratings. But of course they weren't that specific. A rolling 24 months for everything would explain more. Bad stuff can fall off, but so can good.

To add, they say the most recent reviews are more heavily weighted. I'm not sure if that's "the last six months" or it's incremental by the day or week or month, but a recent negative would have even more effect as it replaces a two year old positive if it's more heavily weighted, and vice versa. And a 5 star review may have little effect when replacing another 5 star review rolling off the board.

So yes, I think you actually do know how it works. LOL

Edited March 29 by cucinavivace

[donnovan86]

34 minutes ago, marinanp86 said:

No. No one here talked about being a Fiver employee, only you mentioned it 🥴

I replied to a person saying they need to be compensated because they work for Fiverr. Which makes them an employee. They specifically said they work FOR Fiverr. We all work ON Fiverr, on a platform as independent contractors. Things might change from country to country when it comes to the legal status. Check previous pages if you want to. But clearly everyone has their own opinion about this, some even say they are forced by Fiverr to work a certain number of hours a day, which they are not. I swear.. a lot of people see Fiverr as their employer, when it's just a platform for freelancers. As I said, to each his own. 

34 minutes ago, marinanp86 said:

I think they took the most absurd measures that exist.

To be fair, Uwork also tracks your performance for the last 2 years. So if anything, they aligned to that. The problem here are private reviews, and how they are a massive factor for the success score. Not knowing how and why you are rated a certain way privately is indeed a problem. However, that has been a problem for 2 years+ now, since private reviews were introduced. Yet not everyone was mad about it. Now that these scores are affecting their level, all of a sudden they became an issue.

I don't really use Uwork that much, but I know that Fiverr did borrow ideas from their systems, just like Uwork did from Fiverr with the gig system. I think they also have private reviews, if I am not mistaken. 

34 minutes ago, marinanp86 said:

In fact, it is enough to have an account by identification, and eliminate the accounts of sellers with repeated complaints of extortion or manipulation,

Yeah. And they make new ones. They use fake identities. I agree, there could be different ways to handle. But it's easier to use AI in order to track metrics and take action based on that. And also cheaper, when compared to paying people that manually track and do those things. I am not a huge fan of these changes, especially with success scores and such, but I also realize that even the community itself doesn't have massive strength when it comes to decisions. Even people that made over $1 million on Fiverr like Levi were unable to change the way things work. 

Fiverr already knows what the community dislikes, they know the success score is not well-received by sellers. But it wasn't meant to anyway. The focus was on lowering review scores across the board, and it worked. So yeah, in the bigger spectrum the focus is on AI-based/supported services, I am sick and tired of these ads, social posts, webinars that are spewing over AI benefits and stuff. There's a lot of stuff outside of my control, I complained to a Fiverr manager about the success score and review system even before it was implemented, and I was not alone. But clearly Fiverr has different plans so instead of complaining, I just focus on my work and stuff that I can control.

Speaking of work, I have some gigs to deliver, so I'll be off 🙂 Good luck!