Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[donnovan86]

59 minutes ago, charlsmcfarlane said:

This is fundamentally the problem. They should not.

Well, you know what Fiverr said. Some people won't share their full review and what they thought out of courtesy. So that's why they exist. I also find it unnecesary, especially with these public reviews becoming multi-page things. It just adds more pressure to buyers, and unfortunately most of them ignore those things. Unless you have an unhappy customer, he'll make sure he will share his unsatisfaction everywhere 🙂

 

[donnovan86]

21 minutes ago, vhskid said:

And while they exist, sellers don't have the same option to privately rate buyers and see some indicators of buyer performance (related to that).

 

What sense would it make? Buyers can still order directly. And they can always create a new account. It's very strict for sellers, if you have more than one account, you're banned. But I know many clients who have their personal account, along with a business account, etc. 

[e_benincasa]

 

23 hours ago, fixxapp said:

this platform is becoming a s*hithole, for them a performance like this is a level 0, it means the previous level was just useless.

It seems all crazy honestly, I'm improving my gigs on upwork already...

My Dashboard looks the same and my success score just dropped to a 6 this morning and I have the warning that I will be demoted to level 1 status.  I have been emailing back and forth almost everyday with support asking for clear and direct evidence as to why.  The gigs tell you nothing.  Just "room for growth" or "negative impact" and it doesn't align with my other metrics when I have been doing well for the past 1.5 years on the platform and I see positive reviews. It all makes no sense.  I'm happy to improve if someone could just tell me WHY!   This is beyond frustrating to have no recourse. 

[vhskid]

27 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

What sense would it make? Buyers can still order directly. And they can always create a new account. It's very strict for sellers, if you have more than one account, you're banned. But I know many clients who have their personal account, along with a business account, etc. 

 

With the Request To Order option buyers cannot just order directly. 

Also, custom estimations / proposals in some types of offers / industries are the only way to conduct projects, so gig / package purchases don't occur despite being an available option.

Sure, sellers will always have bigger pressure / stakes, and buyers can create new accounts over and over. 
But having similar private feedback to rate buyers would at least make the bully buyers' lives more difficult and sellers can be more cautious when dealing with fresh accounts.

 

 

Edited March 7 by vhskid

[donnovan86]

6 minutes ago, vhskid said:

But having similar private feedback to rate buyers would at least make the bully buyers' lives more difficult and sellers can be more cautious when dealing with fresh accounts.

If you have Seller Plus already to use that Request to Order, there are buyer insights and you can see average ratings they left. That's enough for me to gauge whether that buyer is good to work with or not. At least in my case.

[williambryan392]

Got it too, but I was always eligible, weird. 

This makes me think that maybe they flicked something off and on so we all got the notification (maybe).

I recall about a year ago lots of people suddenly got told they weren't eligible anymore and couldn't promote. Happed to all my gigs. It was a bug/error. Then it was fixed.

[mandyzines]

4 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

Got it too, but I was always eligible, weird. 

This makes me think that maybe they flicked something off and on so we all got the notification (maybe).

I recall about a year ago lots of people suddenly got told they weren't eligible anymore and couldn't promote. Happed to all my gigs. It was a bug/error. Then it was fixed.

Even though I received the formal notification this morning, the ability to promote all of my gigs--even the one with no orders yet--has been there for weeks.

Edited March 7 by mandyzines

[nickkold]

25 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

If you have Seller Plus already to use that Request to Order, there are buyer insights and you can see average ratings they left. That's enough for me to gauge whether that buyer is good to work with or not. At least in my case.

I do the same on all my gigs. Gives me a bit of peace of mind.

[maitasun]

People keep forgetting that buyers can leave private feedback without having to leave a public review. That on the one hand.

On the other hand (and here I'll play along with Fiverr)... Fiverr says it's being more transparent. Ok, include your poorly written and subjective private feedback in our rating calculation and breakdown. Buuuuuuuut... Do you know what transparency would really mean, especially if you were playing fair? Letting us know how none-perfect private feedback translates into a 4.9, 4.8, 4.7, or whatever, and how many perfect feedbacks are needed to counter each of the not-so-perfect ones.

How else would anyone know what to do to improve whatever is not perfect? It makes no sense to have customer satisfaction metrics with a "strong negative/negative impact" showing on the gigs if the seller doesn't have the tools to counter and make it better. Parameters must be objective, never subjective—especially if you're using them for calculation.

[vhskid]

54 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

1 hour ago, vhskid said:

But having similar private feedback to rate buyers would at least make the bully buyers' lives more difficult and sellers can be more cautious when dealing with fresh accounts.

If you have Seller Plus already to use that Request to Order, there are buyer insights and you can see average ratings they left. That's enough for me to gauge whether that buyer is good to work with or not. At least in my case.

 

"you can see average ratings they left" - meaning with SP there are available average private ratings left?

The public ratings left (by the buyer or by sellers) can be unreliable - overly positive to avoid confrontation.
What will go on in the private feedback can be a different story.

 

Anyway, I'm speaking from the place of need for balancing (at least a bit) the power / responsibility / pressure / rights.

Fiverr is tipping the scales more and more to the sellers' disadvantage. 

 

 

[uk1000]

55 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

This makes me think that maybe they flicked something off and on so we all got the notification (maybe).

I recall about a year ago lots of people suddenly got told they weren't eligible anymore and couldn't promote. Happed to all my gigs. It was a bug/error. Then it was fixed.

I got it too. It showed "you are now eligible to promote all your gigs" today, but even after refreshing that promotion page it only shows 4 gigs that I can promote there, despite having 6 active gigs.

Edited March 7 by uk1000

[donnovan86]

18 minutes ago, vhskid said:

"you can see average ratings they left" - meaning with SP there are available average private ratings left?

 

I mean the buyer ratings. Like these 

That's what matters to me and it's enough to see if a buyer tends to rate people poorly, that's a huge red flag for me. 

[texvox]

6 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

And if your happy customers don't leave private reviews, yet unhappy customers do.. then those negative private reviews will have a larger impact. 

Somewhat related - my Seller Plus SM also told me via email that not having enough positive private reviews can cause you to fall out of favor with the algo even if you don't have negative private reviews. Or if you don't fall out of favor for that reason, it can hold you back from bouncing back up in certain situations.

When I went on vacation mode for 10 days (worst mistake I've made on the platform) it caused my extremely visible and healthy account to nose-dive for a few months. 

I asked her how to climb out of that hole and she said "When you see a slow down in traffic, it can sometimes snowball. To avoid this, keeping a steady influx of positive internal stats is important. One of those is the Buyer Satisfaction score which is based on the private surveys. Yours is very good, but if you haven't gotten many (or any) since you've returned from vacation that could be playing a part."

She then said "I highly suggest" asking my buyers to leave private reviews. Because even though I didn't personally have any harsh private reviews, according to her I also didn't have enough positive private reviews. Exciting.

Edited March 7 by texvox

[maitasun]

4 minutes ago, texvox said:

Somewhat related - my Seller Plus SM also told me via email that not having enough positive private reviews can cause you to fall out of favor with the algo even if you don't have negative private reviews.

And Fiverr calls it science... 🙄

At this point, I don't know which face would be the most appropriate one, a 🤦‍♀️ or a 🤡. 😑

 

[katherinasim]

3 hours ago, filipdevaere said:

I just got this. Even gigs that I have never sold are now suddenly OK.

I tried this for a new gig. 2 clicks cost me $4.09 😬 no thank you

[visualstudios]

2 minutes ago, katherinasim said:

I tried this for a new gig. 2 clicks cost me $4.09

You've been bamboozled

[carineb]

4 minutes ago, katherinasim said:

I tried this for a new gig. 2 clicks cost me $4.09 😬 no thank you

That's why they offer promoted gigs to everyone! People don't know how it works, but Fiverr makes a lot of money!
Start with the lowest CPC cap possible, and increase if there are no clicks over several days!
For me, it's maximum $0.04 per click.

[vhskid]

7 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I mean the buyer ratings. Like these 

That's what matters to me and it's enough to see if a buyer tends to rate people poorly, that's a huge red flag for me. 

 

It's nice to know what public ratings the buyer leaves, but since the private ratings will be now included in the overall seller public rating score I wonder if this average will take into account the private reviews left as well. 

Anyway, private feedback left by sellers and included in the buyer's public rating score would be a fair solution, when now Fiverr takes this approach with sellers' public ratings, to help clients determine how is it working with the freelancer.

A step toward a more balanced seller / buyer power dynamic. Even if oftentimes it would mean only just an annoyance for buyers because of the need to create new accounts.

The platform is so focused on making sellers' ratings "more trustworthy" but I haven't heard a word about new or updated metrics / indicators for sellers to screen the buyers.

The buyer is always right.

 

 

[donnovan86]

10 minutes ago, vhskid said:

Anyway, private feedback left by sellers and included in the buyer's public rating score would be a fair solution, when now Fiverr takes this approach with sellers' public ratings, to help clients determine how is it working with the freelancer.

 

It would be great to see it, I agree. Reality: most likely it won't happen, since Fiverr assures buyers we won't be able to see that rating they leave, and that it's completely private. So.. I really doubt they will change that, unless they remove private ratings and make everything public. 

[Alex.M]

55 minutes ago, texvox said:

She then said "I highly suggest" asking my buyers to leave private reviews. Because even though I didn't personally have any harsh private reviews, according to her I also didn't have enough positive private reviews. Exciting.

I've heard this in the past but how do you actually do this...  I'd be annoyed if I would receive messages as a buyer with something like '' hey please don't forget to respond to your private feedback thing ' or whatever it's called ... I don't really find it professional to send such follow-ups to my buyers

[maitasun]

1 minute ago, Alex.M said:

I've heard this in the past but how do you actually do this...  I'd be annoyed if I would receive messages as a buyer with something like '' hey please don't forget to respond to your private feedback thing ' or whatever it's called ... I don't really find it professional to send such follow-ups to my buyers

Fiverr just wants us to do its dirty work. And if we play along, we could even get a bad private review from our buyers for pestering them.

So, forcing us to do it, is a win-win situation for Fiverr: AI gets fed (or not) and our ratings go down as planned by Fiverr's 'geniuses'...

 

[vickiespencer]

1 hour ago, texvox said:

She then said "I highly suggest" asking my buyers to leave private reviews. Because even though I didn't personally have any harsh private reviews, according to her I also didn't have enough positive private reviews.

My SSM said the same. Nevertheless, I think I will stop doing so. It seems that if there is less private feedback, there is less to affect our SS score. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@maitasun may have a point here. 
 

18 minutes ago, maitasun said:

Fiverr just wants us to do its dirty work. And if we play along, we could even get a bad private review from our buyers for pestering them.

So, forcing us to do it, is a win-win situation for Fiverr: AI gets fed (or not) and our ratings go down as planned by Fiverr's 'geniuses'...

 

[vhskid]

49 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

1 hour ago, vhskid said:

Anyway, private feedback left by sellers and included in the buyer's public rating score would be a fair solution, when now Fiverr takes this approach with sellers' public ratings, to help clients determine how is it working with the freelancer.

 

It would be great to see it, I agree. Reality: most likely it won't happen, since Fiverr assures buyers we won't be able to see that rating they leave, and that it's completely private. So.. I really doubt they will change that, unless they remove private ratings and make everything public. 

 

But it won't be completely private from now on.

I think you might misread my responses. I was talking about 3 things. 

 

1 - The buyers' private ratings average is rolled out to be included in the sellers' public stars / rating score:

 

2 - I stated that since buyers can rate in private and Fiverr is doing the above with the private feedback, then the sellers should also have the option to privately rate buyers, and analogically this sellers' private rating average should be included in buyers' public stars / rating score.

 

3 - If Fiverr mixes the private and public rating averages into one public rating score (seller stars), then this new mixed average could be included as buyer stat with Seller Plus, updating / replacing the "Average rating given" indicator.

 

 

Edited March 7 by vhskid

[texvox]

47 minutes ago, vickiespencer said:

My SSM said the same. Nevertheless, I think I will stop doing so. It seems that if there is less private feedback, there is less to affect our SS score. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@maitasun may have a point here. 
 

 

I agree. I'm not going to go out of my way to increase my private feedback knowing the absolutely monumental negative impact it could have if a buyer communicated complete satisfaction publicly but then railed on me privately. 

[nickkold]

1 hour ago, Alex.M said:

I've heard this in the past but how do you actually do this...  I'd be annoyed if I would receive messages as a buyer with something like '' hey please don't forget to respond to your private feedback thing ' or whatever it's called ... I don't really find it professional to send such follow-ups to my buyers

 

40 minutes ago, vickiespencer said:

My SSM said the same. Nevertheless, I think I will stop doing so. It seems that if there is less private feedback, there is less to affect our SS score. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@maitasun may have a point here. 
 

 

I feel the same way. I can't get myself to do this - it just seems very unprofessional as you mentioned. I'm here to make my client's life easier - I'm not here to give them homework. For the most part, it's the very well-paying and big clients that don't leave a review even though they are returning. They are busy - they have other things to do and I'm not going to bother them with stuff like that. Now that I hear this is a bad thing - I'm starting to question if I should start doing it - but I'd rather not. Both for professionalism towards serious clients but I know I would also dislike it as a customer. What are everyone's thoughts on here - are you gonna follow and remind clients more or keep on as usual? I'm super conflicted about it. If you follow up for potential feedback - how do you word it?