Freelancer Product Release

[levinewman]

Just now, Kesha said:

"...we don't anticipate the new value for money sabotaging sellers."

"...we hope this helps our sellers."

"...consistently high ‘value for money’ scores may signal opportunities to raise Gig prices."

"...historical data over the past 4 years shows consistent ‘value for money’ scores across pricing levels..."

1. That's a guess that impacts real livelihoods.

2. That's another guess impacting real livelihoods.

3. You're betting that it "may signal opportunities" when in reality if people are getting low scores for "value for money" it will drive prices down for those people and the other people will have to drop prices to not create a bigger value gap that will either 1) reduce their order capacity and/or 2) drive people to leave them poor reviews based on the cost of surrounding sellers within their industry.

4. HIstorical data taken during COVID when stock prices soared at $320 a share all the way until now when stock prices are $27 a share. I'm not a mathematician, but I do hold two bachelor's degrees from a major university, and this doesn't sound like very sound data to base your ideas on.

[ariful535]

I see for every feature, Fiverr gives a nice tutorial to understand the process. But for the new rating, special filed/tag selection, and other options, they are not providing any tutorial, that's why regular buyers can not understand what they are doing actually. Fiverr should clarify everything to understand everybody, even a new comer too. We hope this situation will be good very soon, I got a very bad impact too for the new systems. Hope for the BEST for everybody.

[gunawanguan]

1 minute ago, ariful535 said:

I see for every feature, Fiverr gives a nice tutorial to understand the process. But for the new rating, special filed/tag selection, and other options, they are not providing any tutorial, that's why regular buyers can not understand what they are doing actually. Fiverr should clarify everything to understand everybody, even a new comer too. We hope this situation will be good very soon, I got a very bad impact too for the new systems. Hope for the BEST for everybody.

The thing is, maybe all the seller in Fiverr spend time to learn about the system, how it works, etc.
But for the buyer, they just need some services from fiverr seller.
So once they get and satisfied with that, they will not bother to learn about the process.

Some buyer even (sorry) not have a high education / maybe understanding about how this platform works.
All they know is I need something, I got something, I satisfied or not and that's it.
That's why sometimes, seller can get a repeat customer with more than 100 times purchase but not leaving any reviews.

[gunawanguan]

We can just hope that this new system will be more friendly to every buyer while still give seller advantages.
This is a hard thing to do to balance it and hopefully fiverr can help us seller to build a system for that.

[gunawanguan]

One crazy idea just pass through my mind, @Kesha.

Maybe if this can be discussed to the fiverr team.
If fiverr can make the mobile app to be as much friendly as how the other social media app like instagram, twitter / x, facebook so that new buyer will enjoyed to use it, stay much longer and even addicted to use the fiverr platform, that will help to simplify the usage of the platform.

Just a crazy thought. Please don't get offended with this idea.

[ariful535]

2 minutes ago, gunawanguan said:

The thing is, maybe all the seller in Fiverr spend time to learn about the system, how it works, etc.
But for the buyer, they just need some services from fiverr seller.
So once they get and satisfied with that, they will not bother to learn about the process.

Some buyer even (sorry) not have a high education / maybe understanding about how this platform works.
All they know is I need something, I got something, I satisfied or not and that's it.
That's why sometimes, seller can get a repeat customer with more than 100 times purchase but not leaving any reviews.

Agree with you. Most of them is not give least priority after delivery. 

[donnovan86]

20 minutes ago, jefftuts said:

I predict they are planning to merge your Repeat Buyer score into this, which is a bit upsetting personally as my services aren't really the ones that people buy on repeat.

 

I saw the work in progress during a meeting with Fiverr. The graphic had a mention about unique buyers. But I don't know... it seems they are changing stuff from what was clearly a work in progress. There will be more transparency when compared to now, however there are still tons of things that we won't know. At least we have some idea of what's improved. 

I've been very open on the forum about a way for people to see their buyer satisfaction rate, and it seems we finally have it. The fact they "removed order completion rate & on-time delivery" is sad. But they are adding unique buyers into the mix. Not sure if we need to have unique buyers every month, that's a dealbreaker for a lot of low quantity sellers, they rely on repeat buyers. 

 

[Kesha]

1 hour ago, uk1000 said:

Though this page calls it "New Seller".

 

https://www.fiverr.com/cp/freelancers-levels-ratings

https://www.fiverr.com/cp/freelancers-levels-ratings

 

It doesn't mention "Level 0" on that page. But it might be more meaningful if it did show "Level 0" or "Unleveled" or something.

This page also calls it "New Seller" https://www.fiverr.com/levels even though someone could be here for years with that level.

 

Yes, level 0 is only reserved for instances where sellers are demoted from their previous level 1 status. 

[Kesha]

 

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

This is strange. How does the gig order history relate. 

I think they are introducing the requirement of having multiple unique buyers a month, if I am not mistaken. Regardless, it's clear that it's becoming much more difficult to keep a level, and obviously much easier to lose it. 

Simple. That's for internal use, it doesn't appear publicly and it doesn't have any relevance. Seller reviews are public and they will affect the overall gig score. They could use the same wording though, I agree. Although to be honest, I always left 5 stars to CS, I rarely had an issue that was not solved. 

Your overall success score will take into account the success scores assigned to each of your gigs. The success score on each of your gig  is influenced by the number of orders received for each specific Gig. Gigs with a higher volume of orders will have a more significant impact on your overall success score, while Gigs with fewer order histories will contribute to a lesser extent. This ensures that the success score accurately reflects the performance of your individual Gigs in proportion to their order activity.

Hope this helps!

[Kesha]

4 hours ago, catwriter said:

So... If a level 2 seller loses their level, they lose eligibility for the Seller Plus Premium program. Once they're eligible for it again, do they purchase it at the price they have initially purchased it ($29, or $19), or do they have to purchase it at the latest price ($39 per month, if I'm not mistaken)?

Once a seller joins the program, it is a rare case that they will be removed once their seller level drop. A Seller Plus membership usually remains active unless the seller cancels their subscription.

Seller Plus sellers who joined as “early birds” or during promotions keep paying the cost they had when they signed up and will keep it as long as they don’t leave Seller Plus. However, if they leave Seller Plus and later wish to rejoin they will be charged the standard rate. It is $19 for Seller Plus Standard and $39 for Seller Plus Premium. 

[donnovan86]

24 minutes ago, Kesha said:

This ensures that the success score accurately reflects the performance of your individual Gigs in proportion to their order activity.

So the success score is also tracked over 60 days like the previous system? Or is there a new timeline for it, in which case, what would be the new timeline, 90 days?

[jefftuts]

Just now, donnovan86 said:

So the success score is also tracked over 60 days like the previous system? Or is there a new timeline for it, in which case, what would be the new timeline, 90 days?

Furthermore, what are the criteria factored into the Success Score?

Some transparency would be appreciated. 

[donnovan86]

Just now, jefftuts said:

Furthermore, what are the criteria factored into the Success Score?

They will share that next month when it's released. There's also a webinar next month too. There is transparency, but obviously some stuff will not be shown. I can only assume it has to do with info from private reviews. 

[webcut]

@Kesha

In this case, can you please explain how the review system will work? Initially, clients will see five options: Very Poor, Poor, Average, Very Good, and Exceptional. After that, which criteria will come into play? When will the value for money be considered? Please share the review process step by step.

Another point to clarify: won't there be any 5-star ratings? For instance, if a client selects "Exceptional," will it not count as a 5-star rating for us?

Concerning the success score, you mentioned that gigs with more orders will receive more success points. However, in some cases, we create many gigs, and some generate few sales while others generate many. Not all gigs will reach top ranking. In this scenario, only 1-2 gig holders might get more success than 10-15 gig holders. Should I delete all low-potential gigs and keep only higher-ranking gigs?

Regarding agencies, can anyone join, or is it by invitation only? Also, do you think the lead generation sector falls under agency criteria? I haven't seen any agencies under it.

[prosen_224]

All the updates to Fiverr are nice except for the review system. A top rated seller charges more than a new seller for a particular job. And every person prioritizes more or less money. So any buyer would give less stars in the value for money category.

If I come to the example, the price of a watch can be $100 USD or $1M USD. In the same way, a new seller becomes a top rated seller at some point with his talent and effort, so the price of his service will be a little higher than everyone else.

The seller needs to think a little to negotiate with the buyer while taking the order. And in this case, 50 percent of buyers wouldn't give it five stars for price. And by doing this, the five stars that were from the seller's profile will gradually decrease.

The previous review system was the best 🚩

[navid_zafar]

Overall, I perceive the "Freelancer Product Release" as a positive change, despite the various criticisms and concerns raised by valuable forum members.

[vibronx]

I wonder if the people working at Fiverr would be happy to work under the same conditions we sellers are subjected to. Being constantly evaluated on our performance, response time, etc., while being allowed to make very few mistakes. Do their bosses think they are value for money, btw?

I used to get really angry about decisions like this one, but now I basically feel apathy. Almost every new “feature” shows that Fiverr doesn’t care about us. And I just don’t really care about them either anymore.

I think if they truly felt what it was like relying on Fiverr as part of your income and striving for perfect scores year after year, if they had felt that on their own bodies, they would make different decisions. That’s all.

Edited January 31 by vibronx
I’m sick so if I made any mistakes in this post, I blame them on that

[Alex.M]

I wonder howww exactly is it possible that I just received a message from one of my NEW buyers that sounded like '' Well this was expensive '' Coincidence? 

[leannelrivers]

16 minutes ago, vibronx said:

I used to get really angry about decisions like this one, but now I basically feel apathy.

I feel the same. I've allowed the ratings, evaluations and hits to visibility for not being perfect to rock my boat far too many times. And now the goalposts are moving again. I'm not cutting my prices again; I know I'm value for money whether buyers agree or not. I spend a bit of money promoting my gigs, but I see that as a legitimate part of being a business. But I'm done with paying for Seller Plus and attempting to micromanage everything, including trying to figure out if a buyer is likely to leave a bad review. No thanks. If Fiverr is one's sole source of income, then the ratings, evaluations and visibility in searches become incredibly stressful. I didn't choose to be a freelancer because I wanted to be constantly stressed about algorithms and approval ratings. 

[kokoha]

@Kesha I'd like to inquire about a feature that, despite not being discussed in the latest posts, has been quite beneficial since its implementation in 2018. This feature ensures that the lowest-rated order in a 60-day period is excluded from a seller's evaluation. With the introduction of the new rating and level system, will this feature continue to be in place, or will it be removed, potentially increasing stress on sellers?

Edited January 31 by kokoha

[emmaki]

Kesha, again, could you please get someone with authority to speak with sellers about the issues raised? I get it, you're probably being asked to ignore them.

That's not a good look. Fiverr keeps telling people that is it listening and transparent etc. These are empty platitudes, and responding to questions pointing out the contradictions within the system about "fairness" does nothing when the system is so badly-designed that it contradicts itself. 5 star reviews are now even more important!

I have mentioned my POV on here, @ing you and also directly to staff in the Pro threads. Silence. 

Why?

Here's a post from LinkedIn. It's quite old. It's a woman writing about how badly Fiverr's gamification elements affected her back then. 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/danger-gamifying-your-work-my-personal-fiverr-story-julie-schoen/

You know what's most interesting about this post, Kesha? The date. 2017. The levels system that is being replaced wasn't launched until 2018. Prior to that, there were no evaluations at all. I don't know how she managed to get hooked on that, but that's part of the point I'm making. 

Fiverr's just made it a lot worse with this new review system. The fact it is to be launched on Valentines Day, the commercialized day of love, really just says it all. 

Some people - like Julie up there - will feel the damage very early, when a gamified system (which is actually a fluffy form of psychological warfare - and I'm not joking) isn't particularly aggressive. Others might be able to withstand a lot more. But every time it gets harder and even more integrated into what is essentially, a part of someone's self-identity (the likes on this forum are another element of gamification), the more health can be affected, mental and physical. 

My question, Kesha, is a simple one. How long will it be until Fiverr's systems - which it knows uses elements of gamification and therefore, psychological manipulation - cause someone their life?

Perhaps it already has. 

(quick edit: I can think of at least one very successful Pakistani seller who became an alcoholic as a result of Fiverr's pressures, so let's not forget self-medication to cope)

If not through the s-word (I have no idea if that's a bad word, but people who do this aren't generally alive after it), then stress. Which can lead to lifelong chronic health conditions, which can, you know, deeply impact a person's ability to earn anywhere. 

Many other longstanding sellers on Fiverr have made it a point to tell staff, often in direct consultations, that Fiverr is appalling for mental health because of its own systems. As far as I know, every time this happens, they get a flowery "empathy and concern" message, which might as well be the "thoughts and prayers" on FB after anything terrible happens. But all this empathy and concern leads to systems that have increase the potential for negative health impacts on freelancers. And when this is mentioned on forum, it's ignored.

Why? That's not empathy and concern. That's paying lip service and ignoring the actual issue. 

Please get someone with authority to come and talk to us. Meanwhile, here are a couple of comments from r/fiverr: 

1. 

This person sums up why I have never had any interest in any of Fiverr's consultation features. 

2.

This poster sums up the truth of the new system: it rewards high volume, cheap sales, pushes people to put their prices down, and ... I'm not sure about his last point, tbh. 

The psychological warfare of heightened gamification and cheap gigs for review farming. This is, ultimately, the end result of Fiverr's 2024 plan, while talking about caring about its community. (not shouting, just making this stand out from the reddit screenshots...)

Edited January 31 by emmaki
editing of a sentence that like, made no sense dude

[creativecolumn]

Instead of rolling out unnecessary updates, I appreciate if you can add a section to view "Photos", "Files", and "Links" in a different section in the inbox. If we need to find a screenshot we sent few months ago to specific buyer, we have to scroll up until the browser freezes. 

[emmaki]

Also, I'd like to highlight a few points from Julie's story (see LinkedIn, uh, link, above):

• Julie didn't take Fiverr seriously at first; not a main source of income
• Was one of the first Pros (going by the date)
• Income explodes to $1000s/day
• breastfeeding while working on Fiverr
• Lots of LATE deadlines (since back then, you needed buyers to approve those... and they often didn't. Remember, after 48 hours, buyers can unilaterally cancel...) 
• Lying about her working habits to her husband like an addict lies about their problem
• Tension headaches (stress)
• HALLUCINATIONS (stress)
• Mental breakdown and realization of addiction to gamified Fiverr systems

Toward the end, she asks this question. Remember, this was written in 2017 (my emphasis) when things were a LOT EASIER:

Quote

The question I’d like to pose, rather, is about the ethicality of gamifying your livelihood. Has Fiverr gone too far to create a hyper-intense workspace that asks freelancers to meet impossible standards? Have they taken the humanity out of the work and turned it into a machine fueled by the blood, sweat, tears and breast milk of stay-at-homes trying to make ends meet?

Just look at that, Kesha. Where is Fiverr listening? Look at Facebook: 

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/10/25/facebook-and-instagrams-owner-meta-inc-being-sued-for-harming-children-in-41-us-states

How many 13-18 yos work on Fiverr, under "parental supervision" which in many cases is not really supervised by the parents as much as it should be, beyond the touch points mentioned in the TOS/Minors Policy. The teenage brain is one of the most malleable out there. Teens are also, due to the whole developmental stage thing, very vulnerable to stress and anxiety. 

I would argue that this continues well into what we would consider adulthood, since the brain does not finish developing until... 25, I think?

A time is coming when Fiverr will need to answer for all of this. I don't know when that time is coming, but it will not be a moment too soon when it does. 

Edited January 31 by emmaki
ps I know the fb thing is about kids. it's the mental health stuff in general and how big tech platforms gamify systems to cause addiction etc. that I'm highlighting here, as that affects people of all ages. also, fiverr does have a huge userbase of young

[katakatica]

7 minutes ago, emmaki said:

• Lying about her working habits to her husband like an addict lies about their problem
• Tension headaches (stress)
• HALLUCINATIONS (stress)

This reminds me of all the times I've snuck out to work at, like, 2 AM even when the deadline for something isn't even THAT close. Heck, I worked on Christmas Day... (don't tell my partner :P)

The constant pressure to be perfect has honestly hurt me, too - and some of it is really hard to get over. 

I mean, on the one hand - we chose to freelance, right? But on the other... some things need to change.

You can't say,' The mental health of our sellers matters', and ping-pong between systems and ideas like this.

Again, consistency is key.

If a 4.0 review tells more than a 5.0 review, why will it potentially make me lose my rank? 

4.7 for TRS does not seem fair in a system that is made with room for lower reviews. 

It's not that I 'hate' change, but that in this particular case,  I just fail to comprehend it entirely. Saying 'okay, let's try a different review system for half a year to see how that works' would be one thing, but things won't really change from what they used to be (other than it being harder to get a 5.0 review) will they? 

I understand that Fiverr is dealing with oversaturation and that it sucks, especially with AI taking on more and more roles, but is this really the efficient way to help 'good sellers shine'? I'm not sure....

 

[emmaki]

Also, here's Fiverr's YT video launching the thing

My immediate takeaway is that the CEO can't even be bothered to launch this and it was palmed off to someone else. 

"After all, who knows Fiverr better than we [sellers] do?"

All the sellers in that video. Who are they? The name cards don't give their Fiverr handle. If they are sellers, how can they speak for the community when the community is saying the polar opposite of what they are saying?

At the end, "Jenny", An alleged VO on Fiverr, says that "As a freelancer, I love having control over my career" before breathlessly praising the new review system for making things "easier than ever" with - that darn word again, TRANSPARENCY.

Are these people in a different community? I don't recognize them. They seem to be singing from a different sheet, and.... what?

The comments under the video wasted 2 seconds of my life.