Freelancer Product Release

[vibronx]

14 minutes ago, emmaki said:

Tension headaches (stress)

Definitely had those due to Fiverr work. Also, for many years, I would respond right away to any messages on Fiverr if I was awake, even if it was Friday night and I was out with my girlfriend, or if I was relaxing at home during the weekend. This was to keep my response time at 1 hour. I don't care about it anymore, but it shows how the gamification impacted me. I basically never allowed myself to take a breather.

Another thing is that I often have nightmares about missing a Fiverr deadline or getting a negative review. And when I say often, I do mean often.

 

[emmaki]

2 minutes ago, katakatica said:

This reminds me of all the times I've snuck out to work at, like, 2 AM even when the deadline for something isn't even THAT close. Heck, I worked on Christmas Day... (don't tell my partner :P)

The constant pressure to be perfect has honestly hurt me, too - and some of it is really hard to get over. 

I mean, on the one hand - we chose to freelance, right? But on the other... some things need to change.

You can't say,' The mental health of our sellers matters', and ping-pong between systems and ideas like this.

Again, consistency is key.

If a 4.0 review tells more than a 5.0 review, why will it potentially make me lose my rank? 

4.7 for TRS does not seem fair in a system that is made with room for lower reviews. 

It's not that I 'hate' change, but that in this particular case,  I just fail to comprehend it entirely. Saying 'okay, let's try a different review system for half a year to see how that works' would be one thing, but things won't really change from what they used to be (other than it being harder to get a 5.0 review) will they? 

I understand that Fiverr is dealing with oversaturation and that it sucks, especially with AI taking on more and more roles, but is this really the efficient way to help 'good sellers shine'? I'm not sure....

 

I've never had any of those issues, thank God - my brain is a fortress and I've always done things my way and to hey with things I don't agree with. But yes, a lot of people do suffer from these systems and the very carefully designed impact that it has on their mind. 

The fundamental problem here is that Fiverr is making things tougher, and pretending to be oblivious to the impact that it is having on freelancers. It's 2024. There is no way a company using any elements of gamification in their processes cannot be aware of how damaging they are. Especially when that company deliberately launched with said elements (and gamification was already a known issue). 

What makes this particualarly galling is the stone-faced lies and utterly instransparent apologies and insistences that everything is fair and dandy. The ignorance of the community in advertising materials and when the actual community is saying the opposite of whoever forms Fiverr's fantasy community. 

I've been on here since 2013. They won't do 💩 and are, as always, relying on the community to adapt and adjust, and roll over. But you know, it's not really Fiverr listening. It's Kesha. Who isn't allowed to speak much and can only "pass on" messages to the great trashbin of the CEO's office. 

 

[emmaki]

Here is what a success manager told a successful VOA on Fiverr after he noticed a weird dip in his reviews (my emphasis). He then went on to share this via his own community: 
 

Quote

I appreciate you taking the time to share this feedback with me regarding the new review system! I just went ahead and shared it directly with the team in charge of this change.

The upside right now is that all VO sellers (and all sellers across the platform!) are experiencing the same changes at the same time. This means that they are likely experiencing similar reviews that are less than what they're used to, but likely more what the new normal will be across the board. I know that's not the most fun answer to hear, but I don't foresee this change causing any long-term issues to your account.

To provide context to the change, a huge part of these changes are going to affect sellers with a very different quality level than you. Sellers like you (high quality, genuine sellers) will likely have 4-4.7 reviews every once in a while with these review changes, but I do anticipate this will help high quality sellers stand out. Realistically, many sellers on the platform do not come into orders with good faith, good customer service, and good quality and, as a result, will likely see a drop in public reviews. The goal of the change is to make public reviews more accurate to the customer experience and, right now, unfortunately the review system is not entirely accurate leading to low quality sellers having mostly all 5 star reviews, even if buyers are privately rating the sellers poorly. So, even good quality sellers who do everything correctly will likely see a drop but the drop between sellers like you and lower quality sellers will likely be steep. Fiverr is trying to push forward quality!

Value For Money (VFM) is definitely a subjective score, but it can be helped by ensuring that buyers better understand the amount of time put into the work. A great example of this is Logo Design. When we look at something like the Nike swoosh, as non-designers it seems so simple. It's just a slightly curved checkmark after all! But in reality, it was likely a huge team of designers who spent countless months working to design that branding.

For your particular service, setting up your buyers to better understand the time put into your recording process will be most important! If they assume that you just sat down at a mic and read what they wrote, completing their order in 5 minutes, they may not view the value for the money spent as high value. However, if you take time to explain your workflow and how much time is spent on each order (even if this is a quick response written that generally applies to most orders), it can help buyers to better understand the value.

There you have it. Everyone is going to see a drop. It matters not if you're a rubbish seller that Fiverr doesn't want or a great seller that Fiverr doesn't want.

Private reviews don't work, yet they are still being retained despite the admitted failure of the whole idea behind private reviews. 

The best advice a SM can offer is "do more work to show that you did the work", using the much-maligned branding industry's methadology (hasn't Pepsi just gone back to it's original logo after spending a LOT of money on a report that many people thought was just a lot of busywork to make it look like the designers did work?) when making simple logos that aren't worth millions. 

Also, tell busy buyers how you work. Most people don't care about the working process. They care about the final result and outcome, not the journey. 

It all boils down to the same old thing. Fiverr is trying to use automated systems to get rid of the flood of sellers it doesn't like, penalizing its top sellers at the same time by lumping everyone into the same system - while telling them that they are 'high quality, genuine' sellers. Under the aegis of a "fairness". 

The person who shared this also believes the value for money metric is the dodgiest one of all. 

Also, bonus points to the SM for the horrible use of that dystopian phrase "the new normal". Fiverr, are you even listening to yourself, never mind the community?
 

Edited January 31 by emmaki
also note the SM recommending delivering more slowly to enhance value for money perception of buyers.

[donnovan86]

55 minutes ago, vibronx said:

I basically never allowed myself to take a breather.

I definitely relate. I made that a part of my everyday life to the point where each time I have a bit of a breather even for a few seconds, I always check my account to see if there are any new orders or messages. Also, it doesn't help that some people are very hard to work with and you end up dealing with lots of stress and anxiety. In fact, I am sure I have that problem right now, so I'll just go and take a breather to de-stress. 

The idea of having a leveling system that adds even more pressure horrifies me, and it also encourages me to diversify my income. I've always been loyal to Fiverr, but these changes combined with AI are not making it easy to stay Fiverr-only these days. 

[emmaki]

Well, I just had a repeat buyer contact me and have secured my first order of the year starting next week. Five figures. 

He always gives me 5 stars and is a dream of a buyer to work with. We have worked together for years. I know what he wants and deliver very fast, exactly what he wants, no revisions. Maybe a tweak of a sentence requested every once in a blue moon. He's busy, so his reviews aren't very florid, but he always leaves one. 

But I'm not happy, because I'm worried about getting demoted. I know this order will make me shine in the Fiverr algo and get me more interest and potentially more orders, but guess what? I'm worried about their reviews demoting me. It's stupid. It's gamification. I'm not thinking about the money. I'm thinking about this ridiculous gamified system. 

It makes no sense and affects people's health. The bad sellers will just find a way to work around it as they always do. And unlike the good sellers who care, they don't care. They only care about the money. 

I'm a high quality, genuine seller, Fiverr. To the point you invited me to meet your CEO (who didn't listen to me). This thread now has several examples of high quality, genuine sellers, all making very similar points to the same green brick wall. 

I'm just going to tell my buyer the new review system changed and he should be careful filling it out to make sure the review he leaves is the one he wanted to leave. If he asks questions, I'm just going to point him to a few select threads here. I hope Fiverr doesn't consider my consumer education to be review manipulation. Should I instead work at a snail's pace so my buyer appreciates how much value for money he's getting out of my time while creating a chart full of circles and triangles to illustrate my complex working process, which primarily involves me mashing my hands on a keyboard? 

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, katakatica said:

4.7 for TRS does not seem fair in a system that is made with room for lower reviews. 

 

True, but what about level 2 at 4.6... It's almost the same, if a person has 4-5 orders during the timespan of 2 months... and only one person leaves a review that's 4 stars, then they lose their level. 

[Alex.M]

4 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

True, but what about level 2 at 4.6... It's almost the same, if a person has 4-5 orders during the timespan of 2 months... and only one person leaves a review that's 4 stars, then they lose their level. 

Not to mention that if you get a bad review it's possible that you won't have other orders for some time,if you don't have other orders you won't be able to fix things. 

[vovkaslovesnyy]

10 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

and only one person leaves a review that's 4 stars, then they lose their level. 

Or just canceling an order and leaving 1 star that will affect the seller for an unknown period of time (3 months? 6 months?)

Edited January 31 by vovkaslovesnyy

[donnovan86]

5 minutes ago, Alex.M said:

Not to mention that if you get a bad review it's possible that you won't have other orders for some time,if you don't have other orders you won't be able to fix things. 

Oh, for sure that can happen if you are a very low volume seller.  You pray that a regular comes back. 

5 minutes ago, vovkaslovesnyy said:

Or just canceling an order and leaving 1 star that will affect the seller for an unknown period of time (3 monts? 6 months?)

True. Although I for one try to avoid that by vetting buyers beforehand or canceling if I feel the project is not ok for me. Thankfully I didn't have that many problems like that. But I can see that some people do, and that's why Request to Order is a godsend, so you can avoid random orders.

[Anna]

18 hours ago, Kesha said:

This also simplifies the feedback process, reducing the number of forms customers need to fill out

This is unfortunately not the case. I no longer have the ability to skip through questions to leave an automated review.

I have to take 7 steps ( 7 clicks at a min.) to get to the end and am still prompted to write a paragraph.

If I decide to answer all questions, it would be a whopping 17 - 18 clicks to get me through.

Buyers are often pressed for time and it's simply annoying to have to go through this extensive 'leave a review' process! Who wants to do that?? 

What I absolutely dislike is the fact that the amount I spent will now be publicly displayed. Why??? I won't be leaving reviews anymore. This is something I am not willing to share publicly. 

Fiverr has always used metrics and from a business point I get it. Reading Emmaki's post made me think how sellers potentially are contributing to this issue by being part of the seller success program. In order for sellers to get these insights and data Fiverr has to collect data.

 

 

[melanielm]

If a high 'value for money' score supposedly signals the seller to raise their prices, and they do, the 'value for the money' score will then drop... so Fiverr is penalizing people for making more money? There is no way I'd consider raising my prices now!

At this point, it's difficult to get upset at this stuff anymore. I feel a lot like a did at the end of my disastrous marriage: apathetic and depressed.

[visualstudios]

Just now, melanielm said:

If a high 'value for money' score supposedly signals the seller to raise their prices, and they do, the 'value for the money' score will then drop... so Fiverr is penalizing people for making more money? There is no way I'd consider raising my prices now!

I ask them directly about that contradiction. They chose to answer a bunch of softballs and ignored my direct question. Of course.

[gunawanguan]

I think we can't say anything more that can make Fiverr changes their decission at this time.
I, myself am not sure if this new level and review system can bring something good, but all we can do now is to adapt to whatever changes will come in future.

Hopefully, this new changes will bring goods to seller and also for buyer, so that this community can growth even bigger this year.
 

[donnovan86]

5 minutes ago, gunawanguan said:

I think we can't say anything more that can make Fiverr changes their decission at this time.

Pretty sure the decisions were made when this new review system entered its beta phase. Some things were prone to change, but value for money and other things that directly impact your reviews.. those are solid for quite some time in the future. I don't see Fiverr changing this. Of course anything that will lower review scores will not be popular for sellers. But if Fiverr thinks it benefits the platform in the long run, they will implement that idea and stick with it. We'll have to wait and see how things evolve, it's not like we can change the system anyway. Maybe buyers get used to it, who knows.

[gunawanguan]

23 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Pretty sure the decisions were made when this new review system entered its beta phase. Some things were prone to change, but value for money and other things that directly impact your reviews.. those are solid for quite some time in the future. I don't see Fiverr changing this. Of course anything that will lower review scores will not be popular for sellers. But if Fiverr thinks it benefits the platform in the long run, they will implement that idea and stick with it. We'll have to wait and see how things evolve, it's not like we can change the system anyway. Maybe buyers get used to it, who knows.

Yes, you are absolutely right about it.

[Kesha]

21 hours ago, gunawanguan said:

@Kesha

I still learned about this new level system.
And I don't know if it factored / counted to my account already or not.
But does this new score system affect the eligibility for buyer brief?

Cause this month, before the date of 12th I still able to get a buyer brief every day.
But since 13th January, I never got any buyer brief and I was told that it because of my performance drop.
I didn't notice or know that this performance drop could affect our eligibility for buyer brief features.

Is it because of this new score system that affect the eligibility for buyer brief?

Thanks for the explanation.

Thanks for your question! The new system does not affect sellers eligibility to receive buyer briefs. However, it is important to note that performance can indirectly affect the amount of buyers who you are recommended to you through tools like Post a Request or NEO, as those services usually prioritizes sellers with good performance.

[gunawanguan]

11 minutes ago, Kesha said:

Thanks for your question! The new system does not affect sellers eligibility to receive buyer briefs. However, it is important to note that performance can indirectly affect the amount of buyers who you are recommended to you through tools like Post a Request or NEO, as those services usually prioritizes sellers with good performance.

Thank you for your prompt reply @Kesha
Another question, can we check / measure our "good / bad performance" with this new update level and rating system?

Edited January 31 by gunawanguan
not inserting name of subject.

[Kesha]

20 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

So the success score is also tracked over 60 days like the previous system? Or is there a new timeline for it, in which case, what would be the new timeline, 90 days?

The success score is intentionally designed to remain relatively stable. It will not fluctuate too often, as it will consider the history of your orders over time, rather than focusing on individual transactions. Therefore, any changes to your success score will take time to reflect, ensuring a more comprehensive evaluation of your overall performance.

[bizconsult7248]

On 1/30/2024 at 5:29 PM, Kesha said:

 

I'm happy to hear of your excitement! These new changes are designed to help you as a seller continue to grow and find success on the platform and we're looking forward to your future success.

I'm glad to hear about this update but patiently waiting for the features to roll out.

[maitasun]

8 hours ago, emmaki said:

Here's a post from LinkedIn. It's quite old. It's a woman writing about how badly Fiverr's gamification elements affected her back then. 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/danger-gamifying-your-work-my-personal-fiverr-story-julie-schoen/

You know what's most interesting about this post, Kesha? The date. 2017.

🎯

 

[bizconsult7248]

9 hours ago, leannelrivers said:

I feel the same. I've allowed the ratings, evaluations and hits to visibility for not being perfect to rock my boat far too many times. And now the goalposts are moving again. I'm not cutting my prices again; I know I'm value for money whether buyers agree or not. I spend a bit of money promoting my gigs, but I see that as a legitimate part of being a business. But I'm done with paying for Seller Plus and attempting to micromanage everything, including trying to figure out if a buyer is likely to leave a bad review. No thanks. If Fiverr is one's sole source of income, then the ratings, evaluations and visibility in searches become incredibly stressful. I didn't choose to be a freelancer because I wanted to be constantly stressed about algorithms and approval ratings. 

Bitter truth but one must spill it out. I agree with you  

[donnovan86]

7 minutes ago, Kesha said:

Therefore, any changes to your success score will take time to reflect, ensuring a more comprehensive evaluation of your overall performance.

Oh, so basically it's the old Buyer Satisfaction Rate that was accessible only to Success Managers. 

It's great that we can still see where we stand and there are some tips on how to improve. Maybe we can have a similar topic to this product release when that new feature comes out, I had a meeting with one of your colleagues, and I had a glimpse at the new level system and how it looks, but there weren't that many details about what information is shared with us and how to improve. I will definitely share some feedback, if necessary, when this new feature rolls out. Thanks for your reply and clearing things out. 

[mateusbl]

@Kesha

Is quite difficult to take a day off on Fiverr, everyday we receive messages and we must respond to them. Fiverr should also think in the mental health to avoid burnout, few things that should be done:

- Add weekend AUTO-REPLY, something like: I'll be back Monday
- Remove order response rate and inbox response rate at the weekends

Let's say the true, many buyers do not care about their orders at weekends, they just come back Monday.

[Kesha]

33 minutes ago, mateusbl said:

@Kesha

Is quite difficult to take a day off on Fiverr, everyday we receive messages and we must respond to them. Fiverr should also think in the mental health to avoid burnout, few things that should be done:

- Add weekend AUTO-REPLY, something like: I'll be back Monday
- Remove order response rate and inbox response rate at the weekends

Let's say the true, many buyers do not care about their orders at weekends, they just come back Monday.

Hi! Thanks for the feedback. We do want our sellers to have a good work life balance and that's why we have made the availability mode available where you can take time off and set an auto-reply function. This will not affect your response rate, but you will still need to manually respond when you get back online. For more information on auto responses and availability mode, check out these articles here: 

https://help.fiverr.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015529197-Setting-Your-Availability

https://help.fiverr.com/hc/en-us/articles/10092069817617-Set-up-your-Auto-Reply

 

[allstral]

 

Hello,
So after I read it, I thought of a question, correct me if I'm wrong. The conclusion in this sentence is that the option "value for money" already exists in the system that is running now, but the seller cannot see it, because it is separate for customers only (private). Now it is a part of it that the seller can see. based on this statement the reason is in order to get "more insights into customer perceptions and make them more transparent"

now the question is:
1. In the current system, "value for money" has no effect on public ratings, am I right?

2. Then in the next system it actually has an effect on the rating. This is a difference that I think is not explained instead of directly offering benefits that I think are fine as long as you don't let that as part of influences the rating as before.