Update: Addressing new level system questions and feedback

[virgoca]

I’m this close 👌 to start ordering stuff I don’t need from $5 gigs just to see the review process myself a couple times and see what the heck buyers are actually seeing. I mean, since fiver’s transparency is straight up invisibility at this point 

[thebrownie]

Buyer often want to extend the delivery time and I have no the problem with this.

I had once a buyer who wanted to delay for several months since he didnt have time.

And I get this now....great 70+ 5Star reviews - 12 000+$ of revenue iin a year and my gig is bad?

The new metric system doesnt work it is so bad for some sellers you can not put all sellers into one pot and grade them some services have different approaches

 

I really hope it is only testing for the metric system

[emmaki]

It most definitely is feedback manipulation. If Fiverr considers phrases like "If you're not happy/satisfied with this delivery, please let me know and I'll fix it up for you" to be feedback manipulation, then it should damn well consider that "asking previous happy buyers to inflate your metrics to feed the algorithm taking over Fiverr to get better rankings and ratings on an invisible algorithm" to be feedback manipulation.

So Fiverr's cool with it when it suggests it, then they have the brass.. uh, monkeys to turn around and warn/disable seller accounts for what is a fairly tepid message and good customer service. And the only reason that is review manipulation (the seller message) is because bad sellers used it to beg for good orders. 

It's just like everything else on Fiverr: make AI punish everyone instead of actually fixing the problem with human brains and oversight. And when the AI makes problems, eh, break the TOS anyway.

 

So much integrity. But that's how you become a billion dollar company, isn't it Fiverr? 

[charlsmcfarlane]

26 minutes ago, newsmike said:

But the last thing one wants to be for a repeat buyer is a desperate, nagging "please rate my work" experience.  They want to cut 'n run, which is a giant thumbs up. 

This is absolutely right. I have a buyer right now that has come back once or twice a week for the last month and has left maybe 3 reviews total. The first one happened because I asked for it, and then they’ve left the odd review on subsequent orders (presumably when it’s been convenient for them).

Every review from them has been a glowing appraisal, but there’s no way that will continue if, after every order, I start bugging them to leave yet another review. It’s up to customers when and if they leave a review.

If Fiverr want more reviews, they should let sellers initiate them too, rather than the keys to the process being held exclusively by buyers.

Edited February 18 by charlsmcfarlane

[newsmike]

Does Fiverr realize that their most successful sellers are about 5 minutes away from this?

 

[pyxisstudio]

Okay guys It was nice talking to you all, I will be officially moving to a new platform next month. 

[ezravictorio]

I have 1 gig, only 6 orders, from 5 different buyers. and 4 reviews.
all the orders, went really well. there was no issue. i alwasy sent my progress, and asked if they want a revision.
3 of them leaving 5 stars.
1 of them leaving 4.7 stars (4 stars on value for money, even tho i gave her discount on the extras she needed) she even thank me on the chat after the order were done.
1 of them bought 2 orders (repeat) but leave no reviews.

their reviews were satisfied.
but the score said STRONG negative impact on client satisfaction.
i dont understand where did i do wrong

i started join fiverr from 2017. and i swear i never ask buyer to leave good a review. all my reviews were honest.
even in this gig, i never ask them to leave a review. so if they will give / not, i dont mind.

[mandyzines]

  

1 hour ago, charlsmcfarlane said:

I’m really curious about all the questions regarding extensions, revisions etc. but, for me, it’s all about the value for money rating. That thing needs to go.

I'm in the same boat, curious about those factors and friggin' furious about the last one.

1 hour ago, voicedbyken said:

Many people don't even come back to Fiverr for several weeks after ordering and the window to leave a review has already been closed. This also brings many orders to autocomplete due to buyer inactivity and has nothing to do with the seller or their service.

At the very least, as @emmakimentioned, I think our AI bosses do give sellers with new metrics more exposure than those of us who might not, even if we do get return clients spending quite a bit on new orders.

1 hour ago, emmaki said:

Oh, so Fiverr's success managers recommend that sellers practice feedback manipulation by contacting clients to give them good reviews?

I've seen Fiverr staff come on the forum recommending we ask buyers to leave honest reviews--so, not "good" but rather honest.

1 hour ago, virgoca said:

I know you asked this as a rhetorical, but man it’s been rough. I’ve been obsessing over this ever since the system rolled out back on the 14th, plus keeping up working on my active orders as well as keeping up a good attitude towards my buyers while being borderline losing my mind plus taking care of my offline life in the meantime. These past days have been a mess! Anyone else feeling like this? (I’m fairly sure the answer is yes)

I imagine this is triggering stress responses for a lot of people, as it is tied to survival. I'm stuck in the obsessive mode as well, only I don't have any orders to perform less than optimal for at the moment, which reinforces the stress response. I tried going to The Dodo YouTube channel and watching fur baby videos with my cat, who really liked it. That helped me for a bit, but here I am doom scrolling again.

57 minutes ago, emmaki said:

It's just like everything else on Fiverr: make AI punish everyone

It's probably part of a pilot program for future digital governance, honestly--stakeholder capitalism as well as public-private partnerships and all. 

42 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Does Fiverr realize that their most successful sellers are about 5 minutes away from this?

 Hopefully they don't use Paypal, GoFundMe, or have all of their money in a bank account.

 

Edited February 18 by mandyzines

[spintele]

There you go, Fiverr is d*mb.  F this sh*t

 

Fiverr should go buy some courses on how to manage business on their "Fiver Learn" platform with a discount. This screenshot is from another freelancer

 

Edited February 18 by spintele

[katherinasim]

I have a gig which has 1 cancellation in its whole history, the order was cancelled because the buyer purchased a wrong gig and I don't do what they asked to do. In my success score (🫠) this gig has Order cancellations - Room for growth. 

Yes Fiverr, of course I can grow and learn everything and provide a client WHATEVER to avoid any cancellations.... 

[charlsmcfarlane]

As much as almost 750 replies speaks for itself, it’s going to be pretty hard for Fiverr staff to find and address everyone’s specific concerns.

I think we need a completely new guide that explains everything in detail. Not just how communication is informed by one’s “politeness” and “responsiveness”. I mean actually, how each thing is calculated. What metrics come from subjective reviews, what metrics come from objective data – and specifically what data.

The more I read, the more complex the questions get. Like, for example, does a buyer requesting a revision damage a seller’s “conflict-free” metric? — but further to that, does it also affect other metrics too? For example, is a buyer requesting a revision, considered a failure in the seller’s communication? (Obviously, in reality, no! – but how does the system measure it?)

My point is, there’s a huge number of questions and I think they need to go back to the drawing board and create a comprehensive, transparent set of documentation on this.

There are a few things that simply need to be changed – plain and simple – but there are a lot of others that we simply can’t evaluate yet because of the lack of clarity.

Edited February 18 by charlsmcfarlane

[visualstudios]

2 minutes ago, charlsmcfarlane said:

it’s going to be pretty hard for Fiverr staff to find and address everyone’s specific concerns.

Don't worry, they'll find it very easy to address the softballs they want to. Amazing how efficient they are at answering what they like to answer.

[charlsmcfarlane]

Just now, visualstudios said:

Don't worry, they'll find it very easy to address the softballs they want to. Amazing how efficient they are at answering what they like to answer.

However, almost every answer we have had so far has been, “speak to support”.

[newsmike]

4 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Don't worry, they'll find it very easy to address the softballs they want to. Amazing how efficient they are at answering what they like to answer.

Dear, {insert name here} 

Thank you for your comments and suggestions, we value your input and will pass it along to the customer satisfaction team, who will bulk delete it within 4-6 weeks.

Fiverr Success Team

Edited February 18 by newsmike

[visualstudios]

1 minute ago, newsmike said:

Dear, {insert name here} 

Thank you for your comments and suggestions, we value your input and will pass it along to the customer satisfaction team, who will bulk delete it within 4-6 weeks.

Fiverr Success Team

That's more than what I get. They won't even address me at all here. Then again, I don't buy boilerplate bs.

[minimalseller]

On 2/15/2024 at 6:33 PM, Kesha said:

We're closely reviewing the questions and concerns you’ve raised and wanted to address them directly. We value your feedback tremendously and are grateful for your engagement, as your insights play a crucial role in shaping the platform for the better. So, we’re providing another update to keep you informed about what we're currently working on and what to expect.

The one-month buffer period serves two purposes: allowing you to adjust to the new system and providing us with time to consider your comments and take action. We recognize the significant impact of this change and aim to collaborate as a community on the best paths forward. Your contributions have been invaluable in maximizing this time for us to make fixes before changes are implemented in the marketplace.

One key point raised is cancellations rectified by Customer Support affecting success scores. We recognize this oversight and are actively working to resolve it before the transition period concludes. We will keep you informed of any updates.

Regarding the Order Cancellations key area that may be displayed under your Gig success score, it's important to clarify that this is different from OCR (Order Completion Rate %). The Order Cancellation key area considers various metrics around order cancellations, including factors related to the order process before determining bad cancellations. It's a smarter, more complex indicator and not a simple percentage like OCR. 

Additionally, we understand the need for clarity regarding the overall success score and the Gig success scores. The overall success score takes into account your Gig scores. Gigs with higher order volumes have a greater impact on your score, while those with fewer orders contribute less. This ensures that your success score accurately reflects each Gig's performance relative to its order activity.

Each Gig is unique, and its score reflects various factors specific to that Gig. It's not a one-size-fits-all formula; rather, it considers multiple variables for each Gig, freelancer and the marketplace as a whole. For example, this means it is possible to have 2 Gigs with the same score, but with different key areas highlighted, each with different weights. The key areas highlighted provide insight into factors affecting each Gig's evaluation. You can learn more about these key areas and tips for improvement here.

It’s important to emphasize that the displaying of these scores and metrics does not signify a sudden change in how your marketplace performance is evaluated. Instead, it represents a move towards enhanced transparency, providing you with deeper insights into the underlying evaluation processes. Your visibility into these scores is intended to empower you with knowledge on how to improve.

We are committed to fostering an environment of open communication and collaboration, and your feedback remains instrumental in driving our continuous improvement efforts. We will continue listening here in the forum. If you have concerns or questions about your individual metrics, please reach out to our Customer Support team. They will prioritize assisting you as quickly as possible, ensuring that all crucial requests are addressed before the buffer period concludes. 

Dashboard has been updated, Level overview option is very nice. It took us deeper. Thanks to the Fever team. I am enjoying it.

[visualstudios]

3 minutes ago, minimalseller said:

It took us deeper.

Indeed.

[Alex.M]

6 minutes ago, minimalseller said:

Dashboard has been updated, Level overview option is very nice. It took us deeper. Thanks to the Fever team. I am enjoying it.

talking about a fever... 

[voicedbyken]

Looks like there's another webinar 2 days earlier with another boilerplate BS message from staff on how great this will all be for EVERYONE

Not sure if it's the same as the one on teh 22nd, but you may want to sign up

 

 

Edited February 18 by voicedbyken

[sunnykingkoh]

On 2/15/2024 at 6:37 PM, smork said:

This is absolutely not happening for a tremendous amount of people.  In fact, quite the opposite.

Where are those of us who are stuck not knowing how to proceed meant to go from here? 

In my case your system is threatening to remove my TRS rank that I have maintained since 2015 for stats that I cannot see or respond to / address.  I tagged you in a post on the very large thread you started yesterday

Here is a screenshot of a section from that post where today I your system warns me I'm going to lose my rank:

You can see how this is so detrimental to someone's well being right? 

The support team are using copy and paste answers and are not responding to direct questions - So that leaves people like me and many others in a limbo of dread because we can't get any clear guidance right now.

I completely agree with you. I am a level 2 seller. I have completed 2.9k+ orders. I have 2,067 reviews with an overall rating of 5* and I have got only 1 negative review. When this update came, I was given a 7 success score. Now they have dropped it to 6 and they are showing me you have 30 days to get back on track.

They say the gig that is getting the most orders, its success score will impact the overall success score more. When I checked my main gig it is 6 now (it was 7 earlier), the main reason they are showing is "Client Satisfaction". I only have 1 negative feedback, I also don't even know how to get back on track when I don't believe I have done anything wrong.

For conflict-free orders, it is showing "Room for growth", in the past 2 months I have completed 250+ orders with 0% cancellation. I am not sure why it is showing this factor.

I am very disappointed with this update. I completely understand you want to reduce low quality sellers on your platform but your updates are harming reputable sellers too. Please listen to the sellers feedback about this update.

Edited February 18 by sunnykingkoh

[budaart]

On 2/16/2024 at 1:12 AM, donnovan86 said:

From what I read here, seems that conflict can be even an extension or multiple extensions, since that's also characterized as a dispute. My problem is that it's lifetime, and for someone with a lot of orders over the years, there are few chances to increase the current score, you're pretty much stuck there for a while. 

Can someone confirm that? There are clients that are not responsive for months. So either you can cancel the order or try to extend and hope for the reply. Either way you get negative impact?

[sunnykingkoh]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:20 PM, Kesha said:

Hi! We have not increased the pricing for the Seller Plus program. It remains $19/month for the standard tier, and $39/month for the premium tier. The premium tier comes with several more benefits and therefore costs more. Sellers who join the premium tier with the "early bird" pricing or during promotions can lock in a rate of $29/month for the premium tier as long as they do not leave the program. If they leave and wish to rejoin, they will have to pay the $39/month. I hope this helps clarify things. Please let me know if you have any other questions. 

@Kesha I joined it as an early bird at $29/month and I never left it, I am a level 2 seller and today I got a notification to get on track in 30 days. In case my level drops to level 1 after 30 days, will I lose my seller plus premium? And if I will rejoin it after maintaining my level 2, would I be charged the same $29/month or $39/month?

[budaart]

9 hours ago, bethanyvo said:

@Kesha

Can you please clarify if the score system itself deducts points for revisions and time extensions- or if it is a buyer that could possibly rate poorly due to revisions and extensions?

If the buyer doesn’t like the fact that there were revisions and or extensions- and rate us lower because of that- then ok fine. That’s their perception of their satisfaction.

HOWEVER- if the score system is automatically dinging us for each revision or extension- then that is completely different. That is literally like putting a thumb on the scale of the satisfaction rating and a completely inaccurate way of determining buyer satisfaction!

Please trust buyers actual satisfaction responses and let buyers and sellers do business freely with revisions and extensions as a normal/necessary part of any business transaction. (Because it is)

As has been said multiple times- many buyers need revisions or extensions due to their side of the transaction. It is completely wrong to AUTOMATICALLY score a seller lower due to revisions and extensions.
 

So could you please clarify that it is ONLY an actual buyer score that could be effected and NOT an automatic ding?

AND IF IT IS AN AUTOMATIC DING- please consider changing that aspect of the scoring policy.

Thanks for trying to build a better platform- and thanks for attempting to listen to freelancers with boots on the ground 😊

Wait, revision can affect negatively? This is ridiculous.  Not only it's a natural way to progress it can be purely buyers error or a minor error from a seller. For example uploading 50 files and 1 is missing. You just send this file no harm done. Maybe it even was there but it easier just to send everything again than checking all attachments. Or it can be various different scenarios: You deliver a logo, but buyers declines the delivery and asks for a watermark too, despite it wasn't discussed and wasn't payed. You make a new delivery with a watermark or any other files free of charge hoping for a good review or tips or simply going above and beyond for the buyer. But you might not get any of the above but also get a negative score?

[vhskid]

1 hour ago, budaart said:

On 2/16/2024 at 2:12 AM, donnovan86 said:

From what I read here, seems that conflict can be even an extension or multiple extensions, since that's also characterized as a dispute. My problem is that it's lifetime, and for someone with a lot of orders over the years, there are few chances to increase the current score, you're pretty much stuck there for a while. 

Can someone confirm that? There are clients that are not responsive for months. So either you can cancel the order or try to extend and hope for the reply. Either way you get negative impact?

 

If this turned out to be true, then the logical would be to use the extension comment to point out (to the conflict moderator / AI) that it was caused by the buyer. 

But that would be assigning blame and influencing the 'Conflict-free' metric anyway or weighing down the 'Effective communication' one. 

Win-win

[kingpirux]

3 hours ago, voicedbyken said:

Looks like there's another webinar 2 days earlier with another boilerplate BS message from staff on how great this will all be for EVERYONE

Not sure if it's the same as the one on teh 22nd, but you may want to sign up

 

 

i wonder if all this was a master plan to force freelancers to see their webinars