Fiverr 4.0 - Some thoughts on the current state of things

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, terrygrantvo said:

Seeing the same four guys at the top of every search, working for 10 bucks, is driving me up a wall. 🙂

Well if their private reviews are great, then Fiverr is obviously going to push them since they do a good job. Since you're a Pro seller, you do have your own section to shine, which those $10 people don't. So there are benefits too. And due to your higher pricing, you can imagine there's less demand and impressions can vary quite a lot.

That being said, I am a higher volume seller myself and the fact that they focus a lot more on first time buyer reviews is definitely a downside. I am already experience a massive reduction in sales, few to no messages, etc. And even my seller manager confirmed my issue is not with the buyer satisfaction rate, instead a couple of first time buyer review ended up pushing me far behind in search. 

It is what it is.. but yeah.. this fluctuation is far from encouraging.

[greenlz]

On 3/20/2023 at 9:17 PM, visualstudios said:

What I take from this is to avoid working with new buyer accounts, since it's an objectively bigger risk. Not only will they not know how Fiverr works - so will be more susceptible to get confused and have a bad experience, either by misinterpreting things (I had a new client be very confused why I was suggesting them leaving me a $2000+ tip, when it was Fiverr doing so with its automated % tip system that forgets about big orders, or leaving a 4 star review thinking that's great, or get pissed off because an order automatically completes, etc.), or by simply not understanding how things work, and having no basis of comparison - their private feedback will apparently be worth more. 

If you don't feel like baby feeding them. I would say just to tell them to have a look over Fiverr's Terms of Service. If us sellers are so worried about the ToS, then the buyer should also have a look it at.

[visualstudios]

4 hours ago, greenlz said:

I would say just to tell them to have a look over Fiverr's Terms of Service. If us sellers are so worried about the ToS, then the buyer should also have a look it at.

Pointless. You can't make them read. Also, there are next to no consequences for a buyer. If they break tos, so what, they lose the account. A buyer account is worthless.

[newsmike]

19 hours ago, terrygrantvo said:

It's like someone just flipped a switch.

Precisely. The real question is whether this is intentional, or an unintended consequence of fiddling around. 

[greenlz]

4 hours ago, visualstudios said:

Pointless. You can't make them read. Also, there are next to no consequences for a buyer. If they break tos, so what, they lose the account. A buyer account is worthless.

True, i did not realise that. Thank you for your post

[terrygrantvo]

4 hours ago, newsmike said:

Precisely. The real question is whether this is intentional, or an unintended consequence of fiddling around. 

My gut says both, probably. Being intentionally obtuse about how things actually work so they can 'spread it around' in a more efficient manner, combined with the unintentional effects of silo'd dev teams each of whom are responsible for only a small part of the ecosystem.

I mean heck - the iOS app has had, what - five updates in the last week? That can't be good. 

 

My current main gripe is with the Custom Order Request Form thingy. Currently, when a buyer views my page there are two buttons you can click to get a hold of me. One says 'message me' and the other says 'get a quote'.

They both do effectively the same exact thing, and go to the same place (inbox). The only reason fiverr would go to the trouble of separating them is if one of them is being used as a measurement - namely how many Custom Order Requests you convert to actual sales (and probably how quickly you do it too).

The problem with this, is that people can choose 'get a quote' and then just ask any old random question they like. The number of Custom Order Requests I've received from people who aren't anywhere near ready to actually buy anything is alarming. I mean, some of these buyers don't even have a script written yet.

None of this would bother me all that much if I didn't already believe Custom Order conversion probably mattered quite a bit. At the very least, if you choose the 'quote' option for messaging a seller, you should be required to upload an attachment of some kind, and they should probably allow us (as sellers) to choose what the requirements for asking for a quote even are, since we'll all have different needs there.

This would prevent all the people who are just 'kicking the tires' on an idea from inadvertently messing up our ability to make money, when they should have just messaged us through the other button.

 

BRB - gonna have to build another soapbox as this one is getting rickety.

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, terrygrantvo said:

when they should have just messaged us through the other button.

I think I will turn the Request to Order feature on, and the reason for that is because people assume a writer knows everything and can write about everything. I had to cancel an order and ended up with a 3 star review on another one in the same day, both placed without my consent, both related to medical topics that I never claimed I am able to cover.

Fiverr's primary focus on first time buyers will certainly destroy some sellers, since there are no repercussions if a buyer forces someone to work on a thing they might not be qualified for. Yet any bad review or cancellation will burry the seller deep into the search results for months. I guess it is what it is. 

[Alex.M]

So any changes after that update from a few days ago? To me it's worse, I am not getting even spam messages 😄 , I had 2 repeat buyers but that's all, nothing from new users 

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, cre8iveartwork said:

So any changes after that update from a few days ago? To me it's worse, I am not getting even spam messages 😄 , I had 2 repeat buyers but that's all, nothing from new users 

Same. I had a single, new client and 2-3 new messages for the past 3 days. Sure, pricepoints and niches differ, but I am certain it has to do with the new focus on first time clients and some of the reviews they had.  

[petrolviv17]

So strange to see everyone saying they're experiencing a slump in orders and new inquiries. I have a different situation now, after a few slow months I am experiencing a sharp rise, the number of orders and new requests has increased several times. I was also recently awarded the Fiverr's Choice badge, which I had exactly a year ago in the spring. It seems that there're some changes in the algorithm, since throughout the year my buyer satisfaction rate was in excellent shape according to the notes from my success manager, but not a single month was as busy as it is now.

[donnovan86]

35 minutes ago, petrolviv17 said:

It seems that there're some changes in the algorithm, since throughout the year my buyer satisfaction rate was in excellent shape according to the notes from my success manager, but not a single month was as busy as it is now.

Maybe you have more repeat buyers and less first time clients.

[petrolviv17]

38 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Maybe you have more repeat buyers and less first time clients.

On the contrary, I always have more first time clients than repeat ones. This month, I got the repeat business badge only because I closed a big project from a regular client. I didn't have that badge for a year.

[donnovan86]

6 minutes ago, petrolviv17 said:

I didn't have that badge for a year.

I see. I had the "luck" of dealing with a few very difficult first time clients, all in a row. So for me, I get to feel that lack of attention from the "algorithm". It depends on the niche and also luck, as I said you can stay away from bad clients from months and then you have the "luck" of dealing with a few in a row...

[petrolviv17]

I just had that kind of "luck". A few minutes ago I received a very unexpected cancellation request from a buyer to whom I delivered high-quality work that I am really proud of. In the message to a cancellation request, I noted that this is a high-quality work and fully corresponds to my gig description. However, I mistakenly clicked the green "Accept request" button instead of "Decline request". Damn... I already contacted CS asking if it was possible to somehow cancel this action, since I completely disagree with the buyer's statement.

[petrolviv17]

14 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I didn't have that badge for a year.

I just had that kind of "luck". A few minutes ago I received a very unexpected cancellation request from a buyer to whom I delivered high-quality work that I am really proud of. In the message to a cancellation request, I noted that this is a high-quality work and fully corresponds to my gig description. However, I mistakenly clicked the green "Accept request" button instead of "Decline request". Damn... I already contacted CS asking if it was possible to somehow cancel this action, since I completely disagree with the buyer's statement.

[sabinespoems]

I'm really grateful for all the information on this thread. It was a lot of information to take in but I finally had the time to read and process it all. Thanks @frank_d for creating it and others who contributed! 

I created a post in early January referring to my own sales draught. So that's when the orders have basically stopped for me. From consistently getting orders every few days, I'm now hardly getting inquiries and the stream of income has been reduced to a third of my usual revenue. Out of desperation I even thought of lowering my prices, but I'll wait with that measure. 

Compared to all of you I feel I'm only a small fish in this pond, so I thought it was just me. Although it was out of the ordinary, I assumed it was due to the algorithm rotation/negative private feedback/competition. Which can still be the case of course. Or ChatGPT is writing all the poems now, who knows! 

I know not having a steady income is the 'risk' of freelancing, but I must admit it frustrates me a bit not knowing where the draught is coming from. If I did, I could approach it more effectively (but I'm aware that's part of it all). But I'll keep a close eye to this thread to see how everybody else fares! In the meantime I'll try find ways to:

 

 

 

 

[Alex.M]

3 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

I am certain it has to do with the new focus on first time clients and some of the reviews they had.  

After discussing with my SM, he assured me that it has nothing to do with first time buyers leaving a private review or not, he clearly stated that all the feedback, private our public count the same ... Now not sure what to belive. 

[ntrxmusic]

Has anyone else been told something different by support that could benefit us? haha, I was talking to them for two days and the last thing they told me was

''I checked your request again.  Your Gig impressions are dependent on many different factors, including your seller statistics, performance, and additional internal factors. 
 
Fiverr does not guarantee impressions, clicks, or views for your Gig. Please note that Gigs may also be removed from our search feature due to poor performance indicators. 
 
Unfortunately, there’s nothing else that can be done at this time.'' 

 

And my drop was also quite high, I was making 2 - 3 sales a day and I haven't received a single order for 3 days lol, and it's my only source of income, big mistake by the way, depend only on Fiverr 😪

[markp]

10 minutes ago, cre8iveartwork said:

all the feedback, private our public count the same

I typed a very long reply and removed it. It's sufficient to say I have an opinion on this and all the ranking factors and what is going on but it's just that. An opinion. Regarding what you were told. it's definitely incorrect if they are saying the public and private reviews are weighted the same and if reviews from new customers to the platform count the same as other reviews. Maybe they don't have all the facts to hand or there was confusion about the question. I would rephrase the question. you might get a very different answer.

[Alex.M]

1 minute ago, markp said:

I would rephrase the question. you might get a very different answer.

it's possible but it wouldn't help me much, at the moment I think that Fiverr is not working as it should and something is messed up, hopefully it will be back to normal soon.

[katakatica]

6 minutes ago, cre8iveartwork said:

it's possible but it wouldn't help me much, at the moment I think that Fiverr is not working as it should and something is messed up, hopefully it will be back to normal soon.

Something interesting I've noticed (other than the fact that my impressions nearly doubled in like three days after I posted here) is that the more impressions I have, the more completely irrelevant messages I get. This is perhaps normal, but it's never been this bad. It does almost feel like it's being switched on and off. Sometimes I have less impressions but with accurate searches that lead to great projects and then suddenly more impressions but close to nothing but spam and people asking me to code or draw. 

Just in the past 2 weeks I had two ups (impressions wise) and one very sharp down (but orders up.) 

I will say - I am a pretty low volume seller, I do rely heavily on some bigger projects that I often split up so it might not be super relevant to some niches but yeah. 

[frank_d]

7 hours ago, cre8iveartwork said:

After discussing with my SM, he assured me that it has nothing to do with first time buyers leaving a private review or not, he clearly stated that all the feedback, private our public count the same ... Now not sure what to belive. 

If that was the case, then why separate the metrics for BSR?

[donnovan86]

12 hours ago, cre8iveartwork said:

After discussing with my SM, he assured me that it has nothing to do with first time buyers leaving a private review or not, he clearly stated that all the feedback, private our public count the same

I have no idea, Alex. I am as confused as you are. I was told that in my case the buyer satisfaction rating is fine, a bit lower than usual but there are no issues. In my case the problem stems from private reviews from first time buyers. But I barely had any first time buyers recently and most of them left a great review, I don't see why they would leave a bad private review. Then again, I had a regular rate me with a 1 star review because they were in a rush, even if they liked the work. So.. yeah.. it is what it is at this point. There should be some buyer repercussions when they do something wrong though, not just sellers being penalized for someone else's mistake. If I go to customer support to report that mistake with their review, I am the one penalized or I receive a warning. If someone places an order my mistake, I have to go to customer support and they may or may not remove that cancellation from my stats..

[catwriter]

19 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

There should be some buyer repercussions when they do something wrong though

I doubt Fiverr would implement that. They don't want to push buyers away.

[williambryan392]

7 hours ago, frank_d said:

14 hours ago, cre8iveartwork said:

he clearly stated that all the feedback, private our public count the same ... Now not sure what to belive. 

If that was the case, then why separate the metrics for BSR?

Nothing is certain obviously, but my personal unproven view is...

I don't think public reviews count for much at all, or if they do the weighting of them is incredibly light.

Private reviews are what matter the most, and will be the main driver of the BSR. Maybe public reviews factor in a little, but my guess is only a little.

As for first time buyers it makes perfect sense to me that Fiverr considers their feedback particularly important. Fiverr has spent money getting them to the platform, and it's on us as sellers to retain them. If they have a good experience they will come back. If they don't there's a good chance they won't.

We've all heard something along the lines of: it costs 7 times more to sell to a new customer than to an existing customer / the cost of acquiring a new customer costs five to ten times more than retaining an existing one'

There may even be a completely separate BSR for new buyers, and maybe that impacts the buyers they make you visible to. I wouldn't be surprised. 

Repeat customer spending also tends to trend upwards, as they get more comfortable they'll spend more. All this is super important to Fiverr, actually it is true of any marketplace, so I do understand why Fiverr may well be putting more onus on new buyer satisfaction than existing.