New update: Buyers will soon be able to quallifying canceled orders...but sellers won't?

[strategist_ceo]

I was going to express my concerns on:

27 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Even of you are a poor little girl from a developing country? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Until I scroll up and saw:

37 minutes ago, purplehate said:

I'm a little girl from a developing country, what can I do? I'm being harassed obviously for the same reason. Yes, it’s definitely my fault that I’m a girl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JFK  That victim mentality 

It is not uncommon for someone to feel "offended on behalf of others," and she certainly has the right to voice her concern.

While my ratings and reviews have been generally positive, this update still caused me concern, prompting me to come into the forum to take a look at the opinions of others.

However, I also view this as an opportunity. I take pride in delivering honest work and find it disconcerting that many "top-rated sellers" or "level two sellers" handle over 20 orders simultaneously, knowing that the end product requires 30-40 hours of effort. Realistically, it's impossible for someone to accept more than 5 orders (assuming they don't sleep) and deliver within a week. This "cancellation" review may help to expose dishonest sellers.

Lately, I've noticed an increase in buyers with over 10 reviews ordering my basic gig ($50) and demanding the level of work I provide for standard or premium gigs. As long as I can communicate with customer service and present evidence to remove any potential fake reviews, I don't foresee a problem.

Edited June 14, 2023 by strategist_ceo

[strategist_ceo]

- deleted -

Apologies for any confusion arising from duplicate content.

Edited June 14, 2023 by strategist_ceo

[mb100]

2 hours ago, nikoleta_dev said:

So, I read the new update related to the new option for adding feedback to cancelled orders, but my main concern is why is it only one-sided towards the buyer. Isn't our opinion in such situations also valid? Some cancelled orders are due to miscommunication or business mismatch, and I believe both sides should have the right to leave an opinion about why the collaboration/order was cancelled. What do you all think?

Here is a link to the full update.

Indeed and I put this type of issue on more than one occasion to Fiverr admin. Why is this platform so buyer-centric? I've mentioned that in order for any business to do well and succeed you need both buyers and good sellers both working in harmony with each other. Not one or the other! All I see from Fiver updates is the buyer can now do this and the buyer can now do that.   

[newsmike]

1 minute ago, mb100 said:

Why is this platform so buyer-centric?

It isn't. We have demonstrated in the past that forum posts contain both sides of the argument. Sellers and buyers make the same claim "Fiverr only cares about the other people" every time a decision goes against them. Humans are subjective and only see how things affect them.   

[lenasemenkova]

38 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

But I assume it's people buying from you, the freelancer, for the first time.

I read it as first-time buyers to Fiverr. A.k.a. the buyers who can’t figure out how the platform works and can mistakenly attribute their confusion and frustrations with the platform to the seller. 

 

I like your version but it sounds way too good. 

[mandyzines]

11 minutes ago, strategist_ceo said:

As long as I can communicate with customer service and present evidence to remove any potential fake reviews, I don't foresee a problem

Have you ever been able to do that? CS told me they never do that--no matter what. The buyer could be lying in the entire review and you have proof of everything, and they said they won't do it.

[elunub3]

Fiver is doing everything to get sellers to leave the platform.

[donnovan86]

4 minutes ago, lenasemenkova said:

I like your version but it sounds way too good. 

I think my version is the one Fiverr tries to state there.

The reason is simple, why would they only stop buyers new to the platform to leave a review? Because they don't know, but all of a sudden if you had an order you're an expert? That's LOL right there for me.

I am sure they thought of the abuse that would appear from anyone that buys from you and threatens to cancel. I think this measure is to ensure customers are happy when they go for a repeat purchase. There are some sellers on the platform that work on the first order themselves, and then outsource. I check competitors and other niches, and I saw people that came back only to receive very bad work. At that point, I can see such a system being useful, because it prevents sellers from abusing a buyer's loyalty.

So if that's the measure they are taking here, I don't have a problem with that. So if that's the case, that's fine with me. My problem if they allow anyone to buy from you and cancel right away, even if it's their first order. I am sure they thought of the abuse that sellers would focus on, buy from competitors, cancel and rate them poorly. 

That's why I think they won't allow new customers to you to leave a review. That sounds the most logical explanation. They don't say New to Fiverr customers. They say "excluding first-time buyers", which to me sounds "new to you" buyers, not new to the platform. I really hope it's my take/version too, because that would be fair towards sellers too. 

[newsmike]

1 minute ago, elunub3 said:

Fiver is doing everything to get sellers to leave the platform.

The bad ones, yes. 

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, elunub3 said:

Fiver is doing everything to get sellers to leave the platform.

I mean, they did say "excluding first-time buyers" in the article. So technically someone just ordering from you for the first time won't have the opportunity to leave a review. But a return customer that's unhappy will certainly have the option. 

[nicks_voice]

57 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I also need to point out something that people didn't see in that article yet, or at least I don't see anyone talking about it. 

 

"Review Timeframe: Buyers (excluding first-time buyers) can leave a review for canceled orders within 14 days from cancellation if the case involved lateness, unresponsiveness, or an unsatisfactory delivery."

So first time buyers can't leave a review if they cancel the order. I thought it would be a disaster, but this small thing is more reassuring. The chances of a return buyer canceling are much lower... so at least for me this is not such a bad idea now that I saw this anyway. 

A good preventative measure, but this still doesn’t solve the issue. Bad actors can still just go through with one order and then cancel the next, start with a small minimum order and then dump all the work in the next. Just a theory.

[donnovan86]

Just now, newsmike said:

The bad ones, yes. 

I 100% agree with you Mike. 

That, combined with the fact they lower from 4.7 to 4.2 also suggests one thing: A lot of bad sellers have close to 5 stars. They really want to thin the herd and keep those high star ratings for people that deserve it. Because there are lots of people that do the work for the first order and then outsource and receive bad results, but even if they cancel they can't leave a review. 

So I think that's the problem here. If that "excluding first-time buyers" thing means people ordering from you for the first time, that's fine. That means only repeat buyers can leave that review and if you disatisfy a repeat client, then I can see why the platform wants to penalize you in some way. 

[nicks_voice]

If a “buyer cancelled this order” tag was placed on top of the review, this would also be a huge plus. 

[donnovan86]

2 minutes ago, nicks_voice said:

Bad actors can still just go through with one order and then cancel the next, start with a small minimum order and then dump all the work in the next. Just a theory.

Yes, I mentioned this already in one of my previous posts. It can happen for sure.

That's why I am thinking about raising my prices, at least in my case this risk seems very big!

[newsmike]

Just now, donnovan86 said:

I 100% agree with you Mike. 

That, combined with the fact they lower from 4.7 to 4.2 also suggests one thing: A lot of bad sellers have close to 5 stars. They really want to thin the herd and keep those high star ratings for people that deserve it.

Right.  Fiverr can (and probably should) lose 50% of its sellers and not lose one cent in revenue. The sales simply move to the remaining, more experienced sellers.  But if they lose 1 buyer, that is a loss in revenue, and it is clear that unskilled, lousy sellers drive buyer loss.  That's why there are so many people here railing against anything that identifies bad sellers, because the low hanging fruit is the first to go. 

[strategist_ceo]

5 minutes ago, mandyzines said:

Have you ever been able to do that? CS told me they never do that--no matter what.

 

 

 

Undoubtedly, customer service can sometimes appear one-sided. However, I have managed to challenge unfair situations and achieve successful outcomes, such as being reimbursed by Fiverr for a wrongful cancellation.

Upon examining your 1-star review, it is evident that both parties have their respective viewpoints. It seems the client attempted to "lowball" you, and instead of communicating your unavailability or inability to accept the offered price, you chose to block them.

Addressing concerns with Fiverr's customer service can be demanding, particularly when attempting to achieve resolution in the seller's best interest. The common use of preformatted replies may amplify the challenge. However, through diligent communication and the provision of evidentiary support, such as screenshots, a just outcome can be attained.

In one instance, I encountered customer service representative(s) who displayed an unwarranted level of assertiveness and were unwilling to amend my performance metrics following an unjustified cancellation within a ticket. However, upon raising a separate, unrelated concern, another customer service representative resolved the issue without me asking.

[laraacantos]

41 minutes ago, strategist_ceo said:

However, I also view this as an opportunity. I take pride in delivering honest work and find it disconcerting that many "top-rated sellers" or "level two sellers" handle over 20 orders simultaneously, knowing that the end product requires 30-40 hours of effort. Realistically, it's impossible for someone to accept more than 5 orders (assuming they don't sleep) and deliver within a week. This "cancellation" review may help to expose dishonest sellers.

There are many, many sellers openly operating agencies on Fiverr, across all categories. These are usually TRS, unable to handle the workload on their own, and hence hiring and outsourcing. I'm not sure what kind of work you think religiously takes 30 hours, but this is most likely what you are observing. They're not dishonest.  

Edited June 14, 2023 by laraacantos

[mandyzines]

14 minutes ago, strategist_ceo said:

Upon examining your 1-star review, it is evident that both parties have their respective viewpoints. It seems the client attempted to "lowball" you, and instead of communicating your unavailability or inability to accept the offered price, you chose to block them.
 

No, the buyer, also a seller, and very likely not the sexy supermodel in their photo, wanted for free what's clearly defined in the add-on section that they're very familiar with during an active order. Then, before accepting the delivery, they wanted me to commit to a 50% discount for them on other orders. This is 100% true but I also suspect they were drop servicing what I delivered.

How you can see the entire picture from that review, with only their words, I haven't a clue, but that brings up the thought of a get-out-of-jail-free card per certain period of time thought--like another site does--to counter the reality that these types of people do exist. And, they aren't making Fiverr more money.

Edited June 14, 2023 by mandyzines

[strategist_ceo]

Just now, laraacantos said:

I'm not sure what kind of work you think religiously takes 30 hours

 

In my experience, which encompasses extensive familiarity with SBA and USCIS business plans, the creation process generally takes a minimum of 30 hours and can extend up to 60 hours. It is important to note that a significant portion of the research work required for these plans cannot be automated.

[miiila]

I don't see a huge difference (yet) to how things were before – after all, buyers could already leave private feedback for cancelled orders, and private feedback is supposed to be the all-important one, and public feedback not... (time might prove me wrong, though),

and
"Note: On a review of a canceled order, there is no option for the seller to rate the buyer."
... well, nothing new, really, either, the imbalance of not being able to leave feedback for a buyer if the buyer chooses to not leave feedback (for example, for fear that a seller who didn't let themselves be bullied into doing additional work for free, might give their POV in their feedback of the buyer and reply to the buyer's feedback, if they left bad feedback), hasn't ever been addressed or amended since the last big update that introduced the "blind feedback system" for the public feedback of uncancelled orders, so, by all logic, why should it be different for the newly introduced feedback for cancelled orders...

Is my mind making this up, or didn't I even read at least a few forum posts over the years, where people said that buyers left feedback for an order that was cancelled, so it seems to have been possible as an exception already...

maybe if they went to support to insist on leaving feedback for a cancelled order, because delivery or customer service or whatever part of their experience was so abysmal?
Or because they were semi-professional grievance-mongerers? Who knows.
Maybe there were so many such cases that Fiverr decided to gift buyers that option as a standard?
We've sure had quite a few buyers complaining on the forum about not being able to leave feedback for a cancelled order, to warn other buyers, and if there are some posting on the forum, there surely are more who don't.)

...and now is being made the rule... but maybe I don't remember it right, or those cases were bugs rather than exceptions, not sure.

Actually, the automatic 1*-feedbacks by Fiverr itself, which happen, when a seller never delivers and the buyer cancels one-sidedly, are feedback for cancelled orders, too. 

Somehow, I can't really feel strongly about this, in any case, and am pretty sure that all the spammy sellers in my inbox, along with the illogical response rate system, where spam is concerned, will remain my biggest annoyance for now, but we'll see.

Edited June 14, 2023 by miiila

[strategist_ceo]

17 minutes ago, laraacantos said:

There are many, many sellers openly operating agencies on Fiverr, across all categories.

As far as I understand, Fiverr is primarily designed for individual freelancers. In cases where someone wishes to operate as an "agency," they must register one account per seller. I have already registered using my ID and provided my personal identification, which confirms that I am the person offering the services on this platform.

A single seller account should represent one individual offering their services, ensuring a fair marketplace for everyone. It is imperative that Fiverr identifies and removes any sellers who do not adhere to this principle in order to maintain a trustworthy and balanced platform.

Edited June 14, 2023 by strategist_ceo

[vickieito]

Just now, miiila said:

after all, buyers could already leave private feedback for cancelled orders

For anyone who wanted Fiverr to start making private feedback more visible to sellers, here is one step towards that. Buyers are already leaving private feedback on buyer-initiated canceled orders and Fiverr has these reviews at their disposal when they decided to make these reviews public.

I wonder if this new change would allow buyers to also leave private feedback on seller-initiated cancelations as well? 🤔

[newsmike]

16 minutes ago, strategist_ceo said:

A single seller account should represent one individual offering their services, ensuring a fair marketplace for everyone. It is imperative that Fiverr identifies and removes any sellers who do not adhere to this principle in order to maintain a trustworthy and balanced platform.

I'm wouldn't say that a group of talented people operating honestly as a team is either unfair, or the cause of Fiverr being untrustworthy. Those distinctions are attributable to the hordes of unvetted, sellers with absolutely faked profiles, credentials and portfolios, hiding behind ChatGPT and a VPN in order to misrepresent their location, identity and lack of skills.

Edited June 14, 2023 by newsmike

[shayaan499]

And They talk about this "We believe in maintaining a reliable review system that benefits both buyers and sellers" 🤣

Now buyers will abuse to the seller and if even we cancel the order, again we will have to face negative review.

[strategist_ceo]

1 minute ago, newsmike said:

a group of talented people operating honestly as a team

 

Fiverr now displays the name of an individual as an indication that one seller account is owned by a single person. 

Considering that the platform has not yet approved accounts operated by a group of talented individuals or as an agency, I propose that these accounts should be thoroughly reviewed and assessed for compliance.