Testing improvements to the rating & review system

[visualstudios]

Another point to take into consideration, in regards to expectations - how does it work in terms of repeated buyers?

I've had clients that were very surprised with the first video I did for them - it clearly exceeded their expectations - it was exceptional. However, when they come to me again, and ask for something very similar, then they aren't surprised any longer, since I'll do something in the same exact style, and at the same quality level. It won't exceed their expectations then - they will have raised them due to our previous work, and we will simply meet their updated expectations. It will be very good, but not "exceptional" - it is what they are expecting. Being perfect, in this regard, is to be consistent, not to be "exceeding expectations" constantly.

How should they reply to that feedback form? Doesn't that mean that doing consistent work, always at the same quality level, for the same client will lead to lower reviews? Doesn't that mean that it is expected of sellers to keep increasing their quality with each project for the same client? Because that is not only unrealistic, it is downright impossible.

Or look at gigs that deliver a very specific thing - like "I'll place your logo on this billboard", or "I'll customize this google search animation to be searching for your brand name". How can that ever exceed expectations? As a client, I expect to get something that is exactly like I was shown. A gig like that can never exceed my expectations, unless the seller surprises me in some way with something I did not order.

This may lead to sellers offering extra stuff that wasn't ordered for free, in the hopes of increasing their rating. This is somewhat manipulative, imo, and it's bad for sellers and for Fiverr (as they could be making commission on the sale of those extras instead).

Edited December 12, 2023 by visualstudios

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, visualstudios said:

Which creates the following issue - I can search for my competitors services, click on all the promoted gigs I see, with no intention to buy, and I'm costing them money. I'm sure you see the problem there. But anyway.

That's the same on Google. 

25 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Being perfect, in this regard, is to be consistent, not to be "exceeding expectations" constantly.

You don't know that. Usually people that spend more tend to be more careful when it comes to reviews and how they rate people. $5 clients, I can tell you for a fact that I had a dude reply at 1 AM his time with a 1 star review and when I asked what was wrong, he said he was sleepy. So it won't get worse than that. I still have that review, because Fiverr already penalized me once on a similar issue with feedback manipulation, so I just let it go and moved on. But in general, any professional will not deduct stars just because you didn't blow their mind every time. There are nutsos, but I can assume at a higher pricepoint they won't be as prevalent.

I don't think this change will be massive or gamechanging. I find those emotes unnecessary, but removing 4.3 and 4.7 reviews is a step forward, speaking as someone that had those reviews without knowing what was wrong. Having 4.5 is better, in my opinion, instead of those two. Yes, it does make people think twice if they leave 5 stars or less, and that's the point.

As I said already, I think those that will suffer the most will be people that charge less, because buyers can be way more manipulative. Pro sellers, unless the buyer specifically wants to damage your reputation, I don't see this issue affecting you at all, as long as you provide the service according to your gig's presentation. So I don't see a reason to raise the pitchforks just yet. Although I will expect some people here and there that will be affected by the change, but hey, the same thing happened with reviews for canceled orders.  

[visualstudios]

It depends on the interpretation. That's one of the issues with this new system, it's ambiguous. 

Yes, lower priced buyers are a bigger risk, that's for sure. However, being a higher priced seller can also make you a bigger target (fewer orders, so each order can have a bigger impact). There will also be more people wanting to specifically damage your reputation if you stand out, that's a given. I can see it just by looking at the spam - the number of people pestering me for help has increased proportionally to my account growth. The likelihood of one of these people getting mad at me and wanting to take revenge when I block them is therefore higher.

I'm not too worried about it personally, but I don't think this is an improvement. It makes the review process less transparent, not more. It also means low volume / high price sellers will generally need to be extra careful with vetting, increase the value of having request to order gigs exclusively, etc.

Am I afraid this will make everything way worse? Not necessarily. But I'm certain that it will not make anything better, so all in all it's a net negative. More downside than upside.

Edited December 12, 2023 by visualstudios

[donnovan86]

31 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Yes, lower priced buyers are a bigger risk, that's for sure. However, being a higher priced seller can also make you a bigger target (fewer orders, so each order can have a bigger impact).

I agree man, but then again, that's the same risk for a real-life business. 

 

31 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

but I don't think this is an improvement

In some way it is, in some ways not really. For example, as I said, having 4.5 instead of 4.3 and 4.7 is an improvement. Not making it clear how those emotes will impact the result is a downgrade. But I saw Fiverr shows the final review score, so if that person presses Publish, they know very well what they are rating you. Sure, there will be some buyers that will rate randomly just to get rid of it (again, lower priced sellers like me are the ones to be worried here), or they purposefully rate you that way. In which case, they could do that beforehand. If anything, we have 2 things to worry about now instead of 3 (communication, value, whatever they were).

35 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

There will also be more people wanting to specifically damage your reputation if you stand out, that's a given. I can see it just by looking at the spam - the number of people pestering me for help has increased proportionally to my account growth. The likelihood of one of these people getting mad at me and wanting to take revenge when I block them is therefore higher.

The chances of someone spending hundreds of dollars out of spite.... that's much lower when compared to buying a $5 or $10 order to damage that person. I stopped one of my gigs because a person (clearly was the same person because they had the same cancellation message every time, and all accounts were from June 2023) decided to play with my cancellation rates and placed an order, then refunded it. They did this like 4-5 times. So you can imagine I was not happy, but there's not a whole lot you can do either. I even asked them what they need so we can avoid cancellations, and they didn't reply, just Sorry I can't for each cancellation message. I don't think this review system will make any difference, be it good or bad, at least from that perspective. If there are maleficent people, they will find ways to hurt you, or at least try to do so.  I have been on Fiverr for a decade at this point and I've seen my fair share of people that want to damage accounts...But Fiverr tends to deal with them pretty nicely, in my experience.

[visualstudios]

7 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

In some way it is, in some ways not really. For example, as I said, having 4.5 instead of 4.3 and 4.7 is an improvement.

Why is that an improvement? More granularity = better, generally speaking.

7 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

The chances of someone spending hundreds of dollars out of spite.

The neat part is they don't - now cancelled orders are eligible for review, so they can cancel after first delivery.

Edited December 12, 2023 by visualstudios

[ocastriota]

THIRD 4 star review of the day.... I am a top rated seller delivering great quality. I'm used to 5 stars every time. This system is not working. 

[donnovan86]

20 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

The neat part is they don't - now cancelled orders are eligible for review, so they can cancel after first delivery.

You already know the person is coming out of spite towards you and cancel without working 🙂

6 minutes ago, ocastriota said:

THIRD 4 star review of the day.... I am a top rated seller delivering great quality. I'm used to 5 stars every time. This system is not working. 

Well 2 of the 3 reviews you received are 4.3 stars, so they are using the older review system. Only that 4.5 star review is with the new system. So, it has to do more with your clients and how they perceived the work rather than the new system confusing them, most likely. For some reason this new review system doesn't appear all the time, only for some orders. 

And the "used to 5 stars", that's the thing, it will be a thing of the past, as Fiverr tries to differentiate sellers, they will make changes so not everyone will have every order rated with 5 stars. 

[rapidtech1898v2]

Its still not clear how the new system is working.

There are 2 emoties to choose and a free text.

So how are the stars now calculated for the 3 positions in the review?

- Seller communication level

- Recommend to a friend

- Service as described

(with the new system i never get the fully 5 stars - but allways the seller communication is at 4 - none of my customer was able to explain that to me what happened or what he has choosen so its a 4 for communication)

The tell ME verbally my communication is more than perfect and at the end i get 4 from 5 stars for it - not bad either but i only want to know the REASON

It seems to be a (well hidden) miracle.

[rapidtech1898v2]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

You already know the person is coming out of spite towards you and cancel without working 🙂

Well 2 of the 3 reviews you received are 4.3 stars, so they are using the older review system. Only that 4.5 star review is with the new system. So, it has to do more with your clients and how they perceived the work rather than the new system confusing them, most likely. For some reason this new review system doesn't appear all the time, only for some orders. 

And the "used to 5 stars", that's the thing, it will be a thing of the past, as Fiverr tries to differentiate sellers, they will make changes so not everyone will have every order rated with 5 stars. 

why do you know that 4.5 isthe new review system?

How is this 4.5 calculated from which input?

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, rapidtech1898v2 said:

why do you know that 4.5 isthe new review system?

 

Until now, people had to rate the communication level, service as described and recommend to a friend.

Instead of 3 ratings that would lead to 4.3 or 4.7 ratings for example, now you have delivery quality and how was it to work with seller X. That's why if one of the metrics is very good and the other is exceptional, the seller gets a 4.5 rating. So it's easy to spot where the new system is used and where it's not.

 

[venonusa]

Hi @Kesha since now we have private reviews and public reviews and it's not very clear for me.... can you explain how both reviews affect the seller's performance? Example: if a client leaves a public review with 1 star and also leaves a private review with 1 star, these are calculated as 2 "options" to be calculated in the seller's performance? or these are counted as 1 "option" to be calculated in the seller's performance?

[sanda5]

7 hours ago, frank_d said:

I really think this is a step in the wrong direction.

I second this thought..... 

----------may be it's time..... --------- 🙂


 

[donnovan86]

7 minutes ago, sanda5 said:

And I have reasons buyers might hate this.... They want things to be simple not over dramatic.....

Well it is simpler. As a buyer you just press 2 buttons instead of 3 and just ignore any of the other stuff. Kesha said that if both of those options are 5 stars, you will have 5 stars. So it should be easier, technically, since there's less stuff to press. 

[venonusa]

Hi @Kesha, do the metrics in the red boxes affect seller performance? or only the "emojis" will affect seller performance?

Because if the metrics in the red boxes also affect the seller's performance, this means that the seller has 2 master metrics and about 10 sub metrics..... 😓

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by venonusa

[oymusafir]

7 hours ago, visualstudios said:

Wanna talk about it? Spammers are "Fiverr Pro clients" now.

Not only are there pro clients, but there are also some sellers who are spammers themselves on Fiverr. 

I don't know what he was thinking while sending this to me. He is a seller on Fiverr.

[venonusa]

Just now, oymusafir said:

Not only are there pro clients, but there are also some sellers who are spammers themselves on Fiverr. 

I don't know what he was thinking while sending this to me. He is a seller on Fiverr.

We get a lot of these messages! They try to find as much information as possible so that they can re-sell same service to your, and they do it with their seller account....

[oymusafir]

2 minutes ago, venonusa said:

We get a lot of these messages! They try to find as much information as possible so that they can re-sell same service to your, and they do it with their seller account....

so should we report it? or ignore it?

[priyank_mod]

7 hours ago, ocastriota said:

 I'm used to 5 stars every time. This system is not working. 

[rapidtech1898v2]

7 hours ago, venonusa said:

Hi @Kesha, do the metrics in the red boxes affect seller performance? or only the "emojis" will affect seller performance?

Because if the metrics in the red boxes also affect the seller's performance, this means that the seller has 2 master metrics and about 10 sub metrics..... 😓

 

A clarification from Fiverr regarding this would be really great.
At least the customers should KNOW what to do when they WANT to give a maximum perfect review to a seller...
Should be no mysterious riddle to them - and in the moment it seems like that to me.

[zerlina84]

I just got (and left) a review using the good old star system. I guess not everyone has the stupid emoji thing yet.

[rapidtech1898v2]

1 hour ago, zerlina84 said:

I just got (and left) a review using the good old star system. I guess not everyone has the stupid emoji thing yet.

You lucky one...

[donnovan86]

11 hours ago, venonusa said:

Hi @Kesha, do the metrics in the red boxes affect seller performance? or only the "emojis" will affect seller performance?

Because if the metrics in the red boxes also affect the seller's performance, this means that the seller has 2 master metrics and about 10 sub metrics..... 😓

 

I think her reply here pertains to your question

People just have to rate exceptional/excellent and that's it. I think she said that the other things under the emojis are optional, they won't really affect the rating. But they might be used by Fiverr for certain metrics, I assume. Otherwise, why have them there?

[venonusa]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

I think her reply here pertains to your question

I think she said that the other things under the emojis are optional, they won't really affect the rating. But they might be used by Fiverr for certain metrics, I assume. Otherwise, why have them there?

let's see what @Kesha says, because if the other metrics will be used "against" the seller's performance then it is better to remove.... since the client will have about 10 submetrics... and certainly they will bore the clients so as to leave "wrong" information

[donnovan86]

28 minutes ago, venonusa said:

and certainly they will bore the clients so as to leave "wrong" information

Well I don't think she will reply the same thing twice. I see those as optional things. Who has time to check 10 boxes lol.

[frank_d]

I just got a review stating that I delivered fast and that "They love it!" with a 4.0 stars rating attached.

Here we go! 🙂 

(that’s me kissing my review average goodbye)