Increased efficiency and trust: new tools and ratings update

[venonusa]

14 minutes ago, mandyzines said:

 

So what if if a client gets their work delivered to them, leaves a review, then initiates a chargeback? Does the review go away?

From what I read yes, maybe @Shiran.M can confirm to us, if client left feedback ( good/bad ) initiates a chargeback, will the good/bad feedback removed?

[vickieito]

45 minutes ago, nicks_voice said:

Would the buyer be eligible to leave a review

I would say "no" because the buyer ordered incorrectly in the first place so no deliveries could be made - even if the order went late (through no fault of your own).

We can see what @Shiran.M says, too.

[donnovan86]

36 minutes ago, mandyzines said:

So what if if a client gets their work delivered to them, leaves a review, then initiates a chargeback? Does the review go away?

Since buyers get automatically banned if they do that, I assume the review stays there.

[Shiran.M]

2 hours ago, hamza_teamalif said:

As a seller if I look at these new updates, they look great and are welcomed! 

I genuinely believe these updates will be more beneficial for sellers and platform as a whole in the near future.

But still, fiverr has to improve a lot in this area.

My biggest concern is ability of a buyer to leave a feedback on a cancelled ordered. On my account, an order was cancelled around 8 months ago, in Dec. And I received feedback from buyer on my gig just one hour ago.

If I look at the article published by fiverr: https://help.fiverr.com/hc/en-us/articles/17120664805521-Reviews-for-canceled-orders-

It clearly says, the first time buyer can not leave a review, and a buyer will have to leave the review within 5 days after the cancellation. But in reality this feature has not been implemented yet. In my case, both conditions were met. The account was a first-time buyer on fiverr, and he/she got the ability to leave feedback after 8 months, not 5 days or 14 days or a month. But 8 months old cancelled order!!

So, I hope fiverr team can take a look at this. Because it will be a bad impact for sellers profile if buyers get ability to leave reviews for years old cancelled orders just to get some kind of revenge from sellers. 

1 hour ago, hamza_teamalif said:

May be they are sending emails to buyers, reminding them to leave reviews on previously cancelled orders. But that's not sure as of now.

I have contacted fiverr customer support. Hopefully they can clear the situation asap. I am also waiting for a reply from @Shiran.M 

I am confident that these kind of reviews will be removed when CS will manually check everything but still, a feature should not be implemented if its not 100% done.

Thank you for sharing this @hamza_teamalif, this sounds very strange and is not how the feature actually works. I’m glad that you contacted support already. If you would like to let me know your ticket number, I will try to expedite it. If there is a bug that caused this, we will ensure that it is corrected.
Also please note that our system doesn’t send notifications to buyers to remind them about leaving a review for past orders that were cancelled before implementing this change yesterday

[hamza_teamalif]

8 minutes ago, Shiran.M said:

If you would like to let me know your ticket number, I will try to expedite it. If there is a bug that caused this, we will ensure that it is corrected.
Also please note that our system doesn’t send notifications to buyers to remind them about leaving a review for past orders that were cancelled before implementing this change yesterday

Thank you very much, @Shiran.M, for your reassurance. The ticket ID is 10191119. I'm hoping that you can address the matter as quickly as possible. The longer it takes to resolve an issue like this, the greater the negative impact it has on my profile.

[Shiran.M]

1 hour ago, mandyzines said:

 

So what if if a client gets their work delivered to them, leaves a review, then initiates a chargeback? Does the review go away?

Hey @mandyzines
If the chargeback was made after the buyer has already left the review for a completed order, this doesn’t count as a review for cancellation. This means the review will remain, and will be shown, as usual, as a review per a completed order.

On the other hand, in case the buyer didn’t leave a review, and the order was canceled since a chargeback was made, they won’t be eligible to leave a review for this order.
 

[design2thrive]

"Increased trust with our improved rating system" by allowing the buyers to leave a review even for cancelled orders? You're putting too much trust on buyers. Unreasonable buyers are going to leave false reviews when they don't get what they want for free. I just had a buyer call me an a**hole after i refuse to give away the editable photoshop file for free which is clearly worded in my gig as extra charge. Now they're requesting to cancel the order because i wouldn't give them something for free. Guess what kind of review they're going to leave? Now would i accept the cancellation and risks a 1* review and losing the funds and wasting my time on his project? Or do i drag this out endlessly telling them they're not getting the photoshop file for free whilst they're repeatedly request a cancellation?

[zerlina84]

I hate to be that person, because apparently everyone on this thread (except Design2thrive above me) loves this new cancellation review thing, but I don’t understand how anyone thinks this is fair for sellers.

I can’t imagine anyone would leave a positive review for a cancelled order, because it means there was something wrong. There is NOTHING positive about this for us sellers. I understand it can work against scammers, but what about everyone else who is honest and asked to cancel for a legitimate reason? There are many of those, not every cancellation means the seller is incompetent.

Actually, I do get it, this is Fiverr’s way to force sellers to do anything to avoid a cancellation. But I don’t understand how everyone is on board with it.

just my two frustrated cents.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by zerlina84

[venonusa]

25 minutes ago, zerlina84 said:

I hate to be that person, because apparently everyone on this thread (except Design2thrive above me) loves this new cancellation review thing, but I don’t understand how anyone thinks this is fair for sellers.

I can’t imagine anyone would leave a positive review for a cancelled order, because it means there was something wrong. There is NOTHING positive about this for us sellers. I understand it can work against scammers, but what about everyone else who is honest and asked to cancel for a legitimate reason? There are many of those, not every cancellation means the seller is incompetent.

Actually, I do get it, this is Fiverr’s way to force sellers to do anything to avoid a cancellation. But I don’t understand how everyone is on board with it.

just my two frustrated cents.

 

Think when you buy a product on amazon, and it breaks after 3 days, you send it back and you're frustrated because you wasted your time with that product, so you're leaving a negative review informing other buyers that that product is poor... same what Fiverr is doing... so as to force the sellers to provide a perfect service ( in the case of amazon, they forces the sellers to build a better product ) the only difference is that in amazon review affects the performance of the product, while on Fiverr affects seller performance.... Maybe Fiverr should not count negative or positive reviews when buyer cancels an order.... How about bringing this to the dedicated team @Shiran.M ?

[donnovan86]

33 minutes ago, zerlina84 said:

I can’t imagine anyone would leave a positive review for a cancelled order, because it means there was something wrong.

I had someone that ordered something without my consent, I tried my best to do it and they realized it was not advertised as something within my skillset, so they requested a cancellation and they were sorry for wasting my time. I tried to send that thing 3 times to try and avoid canceling, but offered the cancellation when I saw the client wouldn't use it. The idea is to be very professional and cordial, understand the person, not every cancellation is automatically coming with a bad review. 

[vickieito]

47 minutes ago, zerlina84 said:

I can’t imagine anyone would leave a positive review for a cancelled order

Here's an example of a canceled order that I had last year in April when I had 67 orders in one month and I was really short on time. I was designing a PowerPoint presentation and the buyer kept telling me that she was sure that I would create the right design (she would know when she saw it). However, she couldn't provide clear design direction, so we couldn't get on the same page, and every delivery was vastly different from the previous one. Knowing that she wanted to get this completed rather quickly, and being strapped for time, I suggested that the order be canceled:

Quote

Some cancelations aren't bad - it might actually be the best thing we can give our buyers.

Edited August 8, 2023 by vickieito

[donnovan86]

35 minutes ago, vickieito said:

Some cancelations aren't bad - it might actually be the best thing we can give our buyers.

That's what I try to do and my last cancellations were in that vein.

The problem is, a lot of sellers also don't know how to hold their emotions and say bad things, or just force the buyer to accept a cancellation just to avoid any issues, and the buyer ends up with no work and wasted time. That's where the cancellation reviews came into play.. to mostly protect buyers. But obviously there will be seller casualties..

[zerlina84]

21 minutes ago, venonusa said:

Think when you buy a product on amazon, and it breaks after 3 days, you send it back and you're frustrated because you wasted your time with that product, so you're leaving a negative review informing other buyers that that product is poor...

I was actually under the impression that no other very well known platform allowed reviews after a cancellation, but I see I was wrong. I really thought reviews were only when a transaction was successfully complete (by that I mean no refund given)

[zerlina84]

@vickieito @donnovan86

I understand what you guys are saying! None of my cancellations were ever hostile, we were always cordial. But that won’t stop someone from venting their frustration over having their time wasted. I don’t know. It’s like we are being penalized twice (algorithm and now risking a bad review).

[donnovan86]

9 minutes ago, zerlina84 said:

It’s like we are being penalized twice (algorithm and now risking a bad review).

If anything, this encourages sellers to not cancel, stand their ground and get paid. Otherwise they would receive a bad review anyway and not get paid. 

[themarineiguana]

On 8/7/2023 at 11:46 AM, Shiran.M said:

• Streamline resolutions with partial refunds
• Gain flexibility with extended delivery time
• Pave your path to Top Rated Seller status

  

On 8/7/2023 at 11:46 AM, Shiran.M said:

• Increased trust with our improved rating system
  with the option to leave a review for canceled orders under certain conditions

Listen, I think it's worth giving credit to the first three potentially positive new features (although I can see how the idea of partial refunds might get abused by less-than-stellar buyers, it still has a lot of potential and has been on my wish list)... but the fact is that these three promising policy shifts taste like the brownie that Fiverr is using to mask the taste of year-old 🥦 broccoli... 

... that is to say... the stinky inky fourth change...

Reviews on Cancelled Orders are a big silly idea that tries to solves a non-problem (seriously, I would argue that reviews left for buyers chronically "oversell" a buyer far more than reviews for sellers, which I think many would agree more often skew a touch too severe).

It also potentially opens up new doors for savvy scammers (posing as buyers) to wheedle their way into — shall we say — free gigs with a new toolkit 🧰 of not-so-subtle leverage at their disposal?

In the past, the advantage of cancellations was mutual:

1. Buyers didn't have to pay.
2. Sellers could avoid negative feedback.

That was transactional, both sides could walk away from a suboptimal situation with their dignity in tact, and it was already a situation where the seller arguably got a bit of the short end of the stick (as the buyer was only out time, whereas the seller was out time, labor, and potentially cancellation rate).

At any rate, the first three changes do sound promising, but the fourth sounds like a quixotic dud that risks alienating a lot of sellers.

[digitalpartners]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to address the recent update regarding Fiverr's decision to lower the lifetime earning threshold from $20,000 to $10,000 for achieving Top Rated Seller status. While I understand that changes are sometimes necessary, I'd like to express my concerns about this particular adjustment.

Reducing the lifetime earning threshold might inadvertently dilute the value and prestige associated with being a Top Rated Seller. The previous $20,000 threshold served as a recognition for those who had consistently demonstrated a higher level of performance and dedication over a longer period of time. Lowering it to $10,000 could potentially make the achievement more accessible, but it might also diminish the sense of accomplishment for sellers who had worked hard to reach the higher threshold.

Furthermore, having a higher threshold encouraged sellers to focus on delivering exceptional quality and building long-term relationships with clients. It encouraged a culture of excellence that could be compromised with a lower threshold.

It's also important to consider the potential impact on buyer perception. Buyers often rely on these status markers to identify sellers with a proven track record of reliability and quality. A lower threshold might lead to more Top Rated Sellers, making it harder for buyers to distinguish among them.

While I appreciate Fiverr's efforts to make the platform more inclusive, I'm concerned that this particular change might come at the cost of diluting the recognition that the Top Rated Seller status represents. I hope Fiverr will continue to listen to the feedback from both sellers and buyers and consider the long-term implications of such adjustments.

Thank you for providing a space to share thoughts on this matter. I look forward to hearing from others in the community about their perspectives as well.

Edited August 9, 2023 by digitalpartners

[arifursdev]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:46 PM, Shiran.M said:

Orders may change, but hard work should still pay off. In case a project’s scope changes or you and your customer decide not to complete the whole project, now you can easily offer partial refunds through our Resolution Center—allowing you to make any needed payment adjustments, get paid for your work, and conclude with customers on good terms.

this is somewhat okay, but this should have been a option only for the sellers. so buyer and seller can discuss in the chat and if both agrees seller will send the request to partial refunds. making it a option available in face for buyers is not good, for any buyers with the wrong mind will continuously ask and submit request for partial refund after the delivery.

 

On 8/7/2023 at 9:46 PM, Shiran.M said:

Gain flexibility with extended delivery time
Your ability to deliver on time can be impacted by unexpected factors, such as changes to project scope, missing or unclear requirements, customer communication, and more. In order to extend your delivery time when needed and give you more flexibility and control with every order, we’ve shortened the customer response window from 4 days to 2 days, automatically extending your delivery date if they don't respond to your request in that time. 

this is helpful, thanks! 
what if the order time was 1 day, buyer was not responding, then do we send a 1 day extend and after 2 day, when it is 2 day late, the 1 day request gets auto accepted. will it show 1 day on the order time OR 2 day late - 1 day extend = 1 day late?

 

On 8/7/2023 at 9:46 PM, Shiran.M said:

we’ve updated our rating system with the option to leave a review for canceled orders under certain conditions.

no, i though on previous discussion it was clear that this is a terrible idea of most sellers. I've read the Eligibility 
 

• Order is late - this is considered when more than 24 hours have passed after the delivery due date.
• Seller is unresponsive - the seller didn’t respond to the buyer’s inquiries or requests for more than 24 hours.
• A delivery was provided to the buyer to complete the order.
  
  that's fine.
  
  1. Order late -> What if order is late because buyer was unresponsive after submitting order requirements? and requirements they submitted is a message "Hello, I want to discuss something with you"?
  
  2. seller unresponsive, that's fine. this should be increased to 48 hours i think OR only eligible if seller is unresponsive behavior is on most orders, not like on 1 order due to some issues (sickness or some other disaster) seller couldn't connect to the internet and this happened only once within 100/200 orders. right now, if someone almost never was unresponsive, completed 1000+ orders and was unresponsive due to internet connection issues, it doesn't make sense for them to have review for something they have no control.
  
  3. A delivery was provided to the buyer to complete the order.
  this is fine. but what if buyer changes his mind/requirements after the delivery was given?
  
  does these scenarios are excluded from leaving reviews for canceled orders too:
   
• buyer is (first time/experienced) >  orders wrong gig > submitted requirements > requirements not related to gig package or requires extras offer > buyer doesn't want to pay extras > wants to cancel > buyer gets to leave review because seller didn't do the requested job in whatever amount buyer given?
• buyer orders gig > submits requirements > wants to cancel because (he completed job himself, accident etc.)
  will this allow buyer to leave feedback because he "submitted requirements"?

Edited August 9, 2023 by arifursdev

[catwriter]

5 hours ago, arifursdev said:

this is somewhat okay, but this should have been a option only for the sellers.

Have you checked the link? It clearly states that only sellers can send a partial refund offer?

5 hours ago, arifursdev said:

Order late -> What if order is late because buyer was unresponsive after submitting order requirements? and requirements they submitted is a message "Hello, I want to discuss something with you"?

Send a cancellation request yourself before the timer runs out, and the cancelled order won't be eligible for a review.

5 hours ago, arifursdev said:

• does these scenarios are excluded from leaving reviews for canceled orders too:
   
• buyer is (first time/experienced) >  orders wrong gig > submitted requirements > requirements not related to gig package or requires extras offer > buyer doesn't want to pay extras > wants to cancel > buyer gets to leave review because seller didn't do the requested job in whatever amount buyer given?
• buyer orders gig > submits requirements > wants to cancel because (he completed job himself, accident etc.)
  will this allow buyer to leave feedback because he "submitted requirements"?

Yes, they're excluded, because in those cases there's no delivery.

[vickieito]

11 hours ago, zerlina84 said:

I hate to be that person, because apparently everyone on this thread (except Design2thrive above me) loves this new cancellation review thing, but I don’t understand how anyone thinks this is fair for sellers.

11 hours ago, zerlina84 said:

But I don’t understand how everyone is on board with it.

@zerlina84 - I don't know if anyone "loves" the new review process that Fiverr just implemented. It's really too early to know how it'll affect all of us yet, so the concerns you mentioned are very real concerns that many sellers have. Especially the possibility of getting double-penalized for a cancelation. Time will tell.

There will most likely be more reviews slipping through - like the one we saw on this thread - that are accidental and should be disputed (so it's important for us to know those rules). 

We can also expect to see more negative public reviews (on both regular orders and canceled orders). And I think everyone is interested in how that will work out for both buyers and sellers.

I almost think that these negative reviews could reflect more negatively on the buyer than the seller. As a seller, I would never want to work with a buyer who leaves a "ranting" review. It's okay if they leave a negative review, but if I see even one "rant," I wouldn't want to do business with them. It is a big red flag. It would be nice if we could identify these buyers more easily so that we could avoid them better. The changes to seller profiles and buyer insights make it harder to do this.

So far on the forum, I've only seen one legitimate negative review on a cancelation order, and I was really impressed with how that seller responded to that negative review. It told me more of his character than any of his 5-star reviews. So I'm hopeful that these changes aren't all going to be negative for the seller, and that there will be good things that can come of it.

[uk1000]

8 hours ago, digitalpartners said:

While I appreciate Fiverr's efforts to make the platform more inclusive, I'm concerned that this particular change might come at the cost of diluting the recognition that the Top Rated Seller status represents.

Maybe with all the new sellers joining (maybe especially around covid) and all the new gigs being created the percentage of sellers who were becoming TRS dropped (since the average earnings per gig/seller probably dropped if there were many new ones without enough new buyers) and Fiverr might have wanted to keep the % who were TRS about the same. Though they could have changed it to $15K if they wanted, but I assume they looked at all the stats and decided based on those.

And/or maybe it's something to do with the change to Pro sellers, with Fiverr increasing the amount of Pro sellers they also want to increase the amount/% of TRS too because of that change.

[dogebao976]

On 8/7/2023 at 5:46 PM, Shiran.M said:

Managing orders starts with having the right tools. In an effort to help you stay flexible while navigating changes that may come up, we’re launching more resolution tools designed to: 
- Enable you to efficiently navigate order challenges 
- Give you more control in unpredictable situations
- Improve our rating system and customer trust
- Help freelancers stand out for delivering great experiences

Get to know your order resolution features:

• Streamline resolutions with partial refunds
  Orders may change, but hard work should still pay off. In case a project’s scope changes or you and your customer decide not to complete the whole project, now you can easily offer partial refunds through our Resolution Center—allowing you to make any needed payment adjustments, get paid for your work, and conclude with customers on good terms.
• Gain flexibility with extended delivery time
  Your ability to deliver on time can be impacted by unexpected factors, such as changes to project scope, missing or unclear requirements, customer communication, and more. In order to extend your delivery time when needed and give you more flexibility and control with every order, we’ve shortened the customer response window from 4 days to 2 days, automatically extending your delivery date if they don't respond to your request in that time. 
• Pave your path to Top Rated Seller status
  In order to bring you and our diverse seller community more chances to achieve Top Rated Seller status and benefit from more perks, we’ve adjusted the lifetime earning threshold from $20k to $10k. We’re committed to keeping the vetting standards high through a professional evaluation process, while providing more freelancers who deliver high-quality experiences a chance to earn the status, showcase their talent, and attract more customers.
• Increased trust with our improved rating system 
  A reliable review system is essential for building trust between freelancers and customers, and for helping freelancers who provide high-quality services stand out. In order to increase transparency and trust, we’ve updated our rating system with the option to leave a review for canceled orders under certain conditions. By improving our rating system to encourage buyer confidence, Fiverr will be able to bring and retain more customers and generate more business opportunities for you.

We value our freelancer community and heard your feedback on our previous update. We have safeguards in place to prevent abuse or misuse on the platform. Please keep in mind that reviews for canceled orders are only available under specific conditions, meaning that not every cancellation is eligible for a review. Cases of first-time Fiverr customers, customers with seller accounts, orders made by mistake, and chargebacks have been excluded. We have also shortened the canceled order review window from 14 to 5 days. In addition, Fiverr may remove this option for customers who have violated our Terms of Service or Community Standards.

Be sure to encourage positive reviews by providing exceptional service throughout the process, maintaining clear communication, responding promptly to inquiries, and making customers feel valued and supported.

We are always open to hearing from you and value your feedback. If you have any further questions or need assistance with order resolutions, please reach out to our Customer Support team.

Thanks,
The Fiverr Team

Unfortunately, the current review system seems to be biased against sellers, often resulting in sellers bearing the negative consequences. It would be beneficial to introduce a mechanism that allows sellers to file complaints regarding unfair reviews, instead of merely increasing the buyers' ability to negatively impact a seller's reputation or livelihood. As a Top-rated seller myself, I am well aware of the inequities associated with this system.

Edited August 9, 2023 by dogebao976

[Shiran.M]

20 hours ago, nicks_voice said:

@Shiran.M 

Would the buyer be eligible to leave a review if the order was:

1. Manually cancelled by customer support because the buyer ordered incorrectly (incorrect price for example)
2. The client refused a mutual cancellation at the last minute which caused the order to get marked late
3. No deliveries were made (since they ordered incorrectly)
4. This isn't a first-time seller.

Hey @nicks_voice
Questions 1+3: If the buyer canceled due to an order placed incorrectly and no delivery was provided (and also no lateness or unresponsiveness of the seller for 24+ hours) then this cancellation case is not eligible for a review.

Question 2: In the case a client refused to a cancellation and order becomes late - this can be eligible for a review (for a completed or cancelled order-depends how the order ends), but this is a pretty rare case. Usually buyers agree to cancellations since they want to get their money back and find another service provider to complete their project on time. If the cancellation request was sent (by your or the buyer) before the order was determined late, and the order was canceled after this request, then it will not be considered late during the cancellation process, and shouldn't be eligible for review.

Question 4: Not sure I understand what did you mean in “first time seller". Sellers can’t leave reviews for cancellations, and neither first time buyers in the marketplace. If it isn’t a first time buyer, and one of the eligibility conditions took place, then the buyer can choose to review the experience.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Shiran.M

[callyofficial]

14 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

If anything, this encourages sellers to not cancel, stand their ground and get paid. Otherwise they would receive a bad review anyway and not get paid. 

This isn't necessarily a good thing. There are times when you can stand your ground to get paid, I understand that, but other times there are buyers you know will be an absolute drain on time, and no matter what work you provide, they will still be unhappy. This is often down to the way they are wired, rather than as a result of quality of work/service. As I now usually recognise the different buyer types quite quickly, I prefer to cut off the time wasters, because they can sometimes 5X the duration of an order, and you can still often end up with a cancellation. When I know I have a buyer that's a bad fit for my work/service, I prefer to cut them off as quickly as I can, to avoid the waste of time and to focus on the buyers that appreciate my skillset and service. Although this may seem at a glance like both myself and Fiverr would lose money due to these cancellations, I believe they're actually helping me be more profitable, by freeing up more of my time to spend with clients I know I can work well with. 

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, callyofficial said:

but other times there are buyers you know will be an absolute drain on time, and no matter what work you provide, they will still be unhappy.

When you see  this type of buyer, you cancel before delivering and don't worry.