Important Update: Some canceled orders now qualify for buyer reviews

[hightlink]

39 minutes ago, uk1000 said:

If you put the word "image" somewhere in the title as well as in the main gig image then that might reduce the chance of people thinking they will get an outro video.

I have sold more than 500+ on that gig, no one expected to receive a video. Some sellers don't read the gig description or don't pay any attention to what message they receive. 

If I was to recive a 1 star, was that review relevant? Was my fault or the buyer? Fiverr won't delete the review 😶

[uk1000]

13 minutes ago, hightlink said:

I have sold more than 500+ on that gig, no one expected to receive a video. Some sellers don't read the gig description or don't pay any attention to what message they receive. 

They might notice it more if it's in the title as well is the gig image and the description if it clearly says "image" there though. That might stop the very occasional people buying it thinking they might get a video (eg. the buyer you mentioned - if they really did think they might get a video and weren't just saying that to get more than was stated in the description).

eg. the title in the main gig image says "Improve Your YouTube channel with a custom outro!" - people who don't read the gig description properly might think that they might actually get a custom outro (video) based on that gig image text.

Edited June 18, 2023 by uk1000

[elitedesignuk]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

So there will be some cancellations like this when the seller might not be a good fit, but as I said, I really tried based on the info that was there. I am sure any buyer would appreciate the work that went into it.. 

Of course there will be bad buyers that try to take advantage

This is my whole point, and I believe the point of the majority of the posters on this thread, but you have (probably without realizing it) made our argument for us.

For the 'Good Buyer', like the one you have specifically referenced, I agree that there will probably be 'no bad review' - ergo NO CHANGE TO THE STATUS QUO.

But as you rightly pointed out - there will be a minority of 'bad buyers' who will take advantage and / or just now be empowered to leave a negative review.

So the update is the status quo for the majority and ONLY benefits the minority - and that 'minority' surely shouldn't be empowered because it benefits nobody.

Counter Argument; What about the 'bad sellers'?

Bad sellers who may be affected are probably those with HUGE volumes (I don't believe that low volume sellers purposefully work on a project only to cancel it - do you??) - Most of those big volume sellers that I have seen sell low ticket items and have thousands of 5* reviews and dozens of 1* reviews - and so this really won't affect them at all.....in fact it might benefit them as they can now maintain their level at 4.2* 

On the flip side - this could completely destroy a new seller or a low volume seller - imagine you are a Level One with 20 5* reviews under your belt - you pick up a 'bad buyer' - do your best but it ends in cancellation and a 1* review - your star rating goes to?  (I actually don't know but will it be like 3*?) - and your finished - you are never getting hired again.  For a New Seller if you pick one up a bad buyer in the first 20 orders your career at Fiverr is OVER.  DONE. END-OF. You are OUT!

So - this is an update that serves nobody except for a small number of 'bad buyers' - it doesn't help 'Good Sellers' (it penalizes them), It doesn't help 'genuine buyers' because 'mixed reviews' from good sellers could be confusing, it won't effect high volume low ticket price 'bad sellers' because they run with a ton of 1* and 2* reviews anyway and for people wanting to join the platform as a new seller - it's likely to mean 'Game Over'.

And this has been my point all along - this is update is a really blunt instrument for a very delicate problem - if Fiverr are trying to reduce cancellations and increase responsiveness - penalize sellers fiscally (more than they already do) or increase the metric scores for maintaining a level - this would enable sellers to 'modify their behavior' - and become better contributors - this update gives people PERMANENT AND PUBLICLY VISIBLE REVIEWS FOREVER - AND POTENTIALLY DESTROYS NEW TALENT THROUGH ZERO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.

This has not been thought out - it is not fit for purpose - it will NOT achieve the desired results and it will surely harm, rather than improve, the platform.

 

 

[donnovan86]

39 minutes ago, elitedesignuk said:

(probably without realizing it)

I don't understand what you mean here. I of course know that this change can be dangerous.

1 hour ago, elitedesignuk said:

Most of those big volume sellers that I have seen sell low ticket items and have thousands of 5* reviews and dozens of 1* reviews - and so this really won't affect them at all.....in fact it might benefit them as they can now maintain their level at 4.2* 

I am one of those sellers. Actually high volume sellers are the most affected by this.. you have a much higher chance of dealing with bad buyers due to the sheer volume. And with Fiverr's focus on buyer satisfaction rate, if multiple buyers rate you low in their private reviews, you're done. So yeah, don't think anyone is safe from any penalty. 

Even I started focusing more on taking less, but more expensive gigs recently because for some reason despite having only great reviews, people leave random reviews privately. But it's not my platform, so I abide to their rules. I expect to not like some of their changes sometimes, but as I said, it's not our company. So, ideally we as freelancers need to have multiple sources of income.

1 hour ago, elitedesignuk said:

AND POTENTIALLY DESTROYS NEW TALENT THROUGH ZERO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.

It's a very black and white approach to this. The chances of dealing with a bad buyer are not 100%, especially as a newcomer. However, like in any business, you have to perform your due dilligence. Offer samples, talk with the buyer, understand their expectations, and refund if things seem very weird or if the buyer starts being problematic. 

I had a cancellation this week and it was amiable, the buyer didn't contact me before placing the order and he was unable to convey his exact thoughts. No matter what I delivered (and I shared multiple versions), it was not ok for you. At that point, you just refund and go onward. I barely refunded any order this year, but I understand situations like this can happen.

What this update will do is it will make sellers increase their prices and stop dealing with problematic buyers. And they will also take the money and a bad review instead of trying to protect their ratings. I can tell you for a fact that high volume sellers are affected as well, because the buyer satisfaction rate will influence exposure. So even if you have 100 orders a month or more, a few bad private reviews can easily push you. That previous update from the beginning of the year with the focus on new buyers was a nail in the coffin for many volume sellers, because a lot of new sellers leave random reviews, especially for those with low prices because they don't really care.

Anyway as I said here, we have to wait and see. We don't know how Fiverr support reacts, if they will protect sellers when they deal with abusive buyers during these cancellations, etc. Instead of thinking about scenarios, let's wait and see. I am also not really keen on reviews for canceled orders, but if it's handled properly and Fiverr protects sellers in those cases of abuse, it should be fine. For me, it's definitely a "wait and see" thing. Does this mean we should expand to more income sources? Absolutely, you can see how the global economy is right now, and AI has only made things worse...

[davidcolonfilm]

I want to know if the cancellations made by support that are eligible for compensation because everything agreed was fulfilled have the possibility of being valued by the buyers and in that case, these cancellations will follow the same requirements to be canceled as up to now or it will be more Is it difficult for an order to be canceled by support? Thank you

[freddysaint]

On 6/17/2023 at 5:25 PM, venonusa said:

Everything depends on how many orders you receive during the month and how many of these will leave a review.

I see that you have 454 reviews from Jan 2019 , more/less you have received around 8.4 reviews every month... So in your case receiving 2  1* reviews in 60 days would lead your review rate to a disaster.

In my case I received 83.10 reviews every month, so 2 reviews every 60 days should not be a problem.

Sometimes I wonder, don't you think this seller is speaking about his account? Based on his performance, on his orders, etcc...

If I say that this new Fiverr option could be an opportunity for me, it is because I see it based on my seller account and not based on data from other sellers.

Based on my experience ( oncourse i am not 100 % sure how algorithm works but one 1 star review can make your profile disappear from search results for long long time 😄 In my case doing more than 15 music videos a month is just not possible 😄

[venonusa]

2 hours ago, freddysaint said:

Based on my experience ( oncourse i am not 100 % sure how algorithm works but one 1 star review can make your profile disappear from search results for long long time 😄 In my case doing more than 15 music videos a month is just not possible 😄

We had the same situation even receiving no negative reviews and no private negative reviews... you may disappear from the search results also because the algorithm decide it.

[vickieito]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:33 PM, davidcolonfilm said:

I want to know if the cancellations made by support that are eligible for compensation because everything agreed was fulfilled have the possibility of being valued by the buyers and in that case, these cancellations will follow the same requirements to be canceled as up to now or it will be more Is it difficult for an order to be canceled by support? Thank you

It looks like CS won't adjust your stats for these types of cancelations anymore:

[miiila]

On 6/18/2023 at 9:51 PM, donnovan86 said:

I mean.. I had my only cancellation in months the last few days. And it was due to the buyer not

Seeing that my last cancellations were all due to *sellers* ordering my gig (apparently thinking they need to do that for me to then give them work...), I guess I can only hope that they won't be able to leave public feedback, too, eventually. If they all left private feedback - including the one who was constantly messaging because they wanted their money back and couldn't follow my spoon-fed, repeated, instructions on how to get support to credit then back to their payment source instead of as Fiverr balance - I know where my slump comes from, and it's not AI. 😉

Mind you, after the third such cancellation of a *seller's* order, I finally gave in and turned on "request to order", after all, which also doesn't help with getting *real* orders from *buyers*, of course, so it might be that, too.

[ionutsebastian]

It already started here. I have a buyer who ordered on June 16, 2023, but he didn't fill in the requirements, I asked for a project description but he's ignoring all my messages. I also sent a cancellation request, but it was rejected twice with no reply from him. Fiverr support informed me that they need his permission to cancel a project with no description on it. I never experienced this style of behavior till now, I guess is waiting for this new great "FEATURE" from Fiverr to leave a bad review or something. This is very frustrating since you can't do anything.

Edited June 20, 2023 by ionutsebastian

[leannelrivers]

1 hour ago, miiila said:

"request to order",

This feature has suddenly become worth the monthly fee. I have it on for new buyers now.

[filipdevaere]

On 6/20/2023 at 4:30 AM, leannelrivers said:

I have it on for new buyers now.

It is on for all buyers on all my gigs. I am in full control now. 

[leannelrivers]

14 minutes ago, filipdevaere said:

It is on for all buyers on all my gigs.

I just set it for all buyers now. I kind of wish I hadn't cancelled SP because it's $10 more now, but I think this feature alone is going to help us avoid headache clients. Smart move ...

Edited June 20, 2023 by leannelrivers

[filipdevaere]

14 minutes ago, leannelrivers said:

Smart move ...

I did this from the moment I was able to use this feature.

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, miiila said:

I guess I can only hope that they won't be able to leave public feedback, too, eventually.

A Fiverr representative said people that buy and sell on the platform will not be able to leave any review on canceled orders. That's to prevent bad actors. 

2 hours ago, miiila said:

I know where my slump comes from, and it's not AI. 😉

Well for most writers it is AI, but Fiverr's new systems don't help either. It is what it is honestly.. there's nothing we can do other than adapt and move on.

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, ionutsebastian said:

I guess is waiting for this new great "FEATURE" from Fiverr to leave a bad review or something

The thing is, if this buyer didn't share his requirements, the order is inactive. I have inactive orders from 2020... so as long as there are no requirements, the order stays inactive in your account. Maybe the buyer wanted to purchase but they don't have the requirements. As long as the order is not started, there's nothing to worry. You can try and send him a message in the inbox, just to see if he has the requirements, etc. Trying to cancel before allowing him to say anything might not have been the best play.. 

[shemanta16]

Have been following these features for the last few days. I think it's not gonna be a good feature for rising talents, top-rated, and serious sellers. Because the fraud clients gonna be taking advance of this feature. Even it doesn't make sense of giving feedback after cancellation.

BTW, I hope the CONDITIONS gonna save us. Lets hope for the best.

[miiila]

3 hours ago, ionutsebastian said:

Fiverr support informed me that they need his permission to cancel a project with no description on it.

Did you try reasoning with them that you need to schedule your time and need to reserve time for that order that maybe never *really* will happen, because the customer, without any explanation, isn't providing the requirements, instead of being able to accept an order from a Fiverr customer who *actually* is keen on ordering and providing requirements?

I can see how it doesn't bother Fiverr too much if people don't provide requirements, as by that point, *Fiverr* has already been paid, but it should be really easy to see that sellers can't reserve time for an indefinite potential amount of time for an indefinite potential number of ... hesitant customers ... 

What happened to the "sellers can cancel orders that no requirements got sent for, without penalty after (don't remember the exact time, 7 days or something?)" policy? 🤔

[abdul_halim462]

On 6/15/2023 at 10:10 PM, oskars25 said:

Thank you for bringing this up!

 

My question is, is there a chance for fiverr to lower that 20% off the fee for order, since we all pay taxes and in the end we end up in 50% giving away. So imagine, you worked all day for  100 usd, almost half away goes to you guys and half to our goverment. I think its not fair. 

 

Also i have seen people using same gig videos in past with different profiles, i reported each of them gave CS alot of evidence, and you guys just ignored! 

Ok, but I don't know if it will do any good for all the sellers, it is almost seen that many scammers cancel the order immediately saying that they have ordered by mistake, how will Fiverr deal with it?

[szybkaiokienko]

It seemsto me  that Fiverr doesn't like idea of sustainability. It deeply troubles me to observe that Fiverr appears to intentionally disadvantage honest buyers, and honest sellers resulting in their financial losses while the reason to cancellation may be various and sometimes really beneficial to both sides while a bad rating would be also highly oppressive to seller in such case. Sellers on this platform from now will be unwilling to request or accept cancellations, even if they have put in considerable effort as they deserve to be compensated for their hard work while both outputs - with cancellation or not will put them in danger of bad rating. The law clearly states that work should be paid for, regardless of whether the buyer personally approves of it or not so buyers will take this fully to their heart making in further perspective Fiverr loos buyers and sellers. I don't think that Fiverr is now the most competitive platform in area and I don't think fighting this way will help any side - nor sellers, nor buyers, nor platform.  This principle holds particularly true in the realm of art. While there have been cancellations in certain specific cases, such as when sellers deliverfull quality work and buyer just don't like it (cancellation with bad review threat, while full delivery and quality was delivered in such case, means enslaving a seller it is not how reliable platform should work and - it works like that now)  subpar quality or encounter scammers, it is unjust that people who don't bear any costs (after cancellation) still can be toxic towards the seller. This allows unscrupulous individuals to exploit the system and essentially receive a full job for free and still leaving bad rating. Inevitably, obvious scammers will answer additionally while buyer won't cancel ( because now there is no interest)  with with anger and leave negative reviews when sellers refuse to be oppressed twice by losing their time, resources, reputation, and cancellation rating. It is only a silver lining that this might lead to fewer scammers on the platform - just maybe because I encounter a lot lot of cscammer approaches and Fiverr doesn't filter them right way. However, I fear that Fiverr may take further actions that inadvertently encourage fraudulent behavior.

Due to these distressing circumstances, I have seriously contemplated breaking ties with Fiverr once and for all. The mechanisms in place here are toxic, even for the most successful sellers. I have already begun establishing a presence on other platforms that seem to offer a less oppressive environment. In fact, I am in the process of developing new brand on my own website and leveraging social media, which have already proven to be more lucrative ventures. Time will tell how things unfold, but the opportunities elsewhere are gradually increasing, possibly because the competition is not as fierce and promotional efforts yield much better (like hundreds of times better) results in a matter of cost per order profit. Also there is no such a high service fees. I feel shame while my buyers asks me why Fiverr takes service fee from them and I have to tell them I can't even help them because Fiverr takes huge chunk also from me.  Regrettably, I am beginning to sense that Fiverr is no longer a viable place for me to thrive and flourish.

[szybkaiokienko]

2 hours ago, miiila said:

Did you try reasoning with them that you need to schedule your time and need to reserve time for that order that maybe never *really* will happen, because the customer, without any explanation, isn't providing the requirements, instead of being able to accept an order from a Fiverr customer who *actually* is keen on ordering and providing requirements?

I can see how it doesn't bother Fiverr too much if people don't provide requirements, as by that point, *Fiverr* has already been paid, but it should be really easy to see that sellers can't reserve time for an indefinite potential amount of time for an indefinite potential number of ... hesitant customers ... 

What happened to the "sellers can cancel orders that no requirements got sent for, without penalty after (don't remember the exact time, 7 days or something?)" policy? 🤔

It looks a little like Fiverr feels the ground burning around and tries to put the fire down by pouring more gasoline on the ground. It is just sad to observe. 

[website___app]

This got me thinking also, it does not favors we sellers and some buyers might want to Man.ipulate things by creating fear regarding rating after cancellation.

It is well, I have to be more careful with the kind of project I will be taking.

[mandyzines]

On 6/18/2023 at 11:19 AM, elitedesignuk said:

On the flip side - this could completely destroy a new seller or a low volume seller - imagine you are a Level One with 20 5* reviews under your belt - you pick up a 'bad buyer' - do your best but it ends in cancellation and a 1* review - your star rating goes to?  (I actually don't know but will it be like 3*?) - and your finished - you are never getting hired again.  For a New Seller if you pick one up a bad buyer in the first 20 orders your career at Fiverr is OVER.  DONE. END-OF. You are OUT!

But you might not really know that because you aren't in Seller Plus, nor do you even qualify, so you obsessively tweak your gigs and stress out not really knowing what happened and how long it will be for.

It's a great way to keep your blood, cortisol, and adrenaline moving for as long as 6 months straight.

13 hours ago, leannelrivers said:

I kind of wish I hadn't cancelled SP because it's $10 more now, but I think this feature alone is going to help us avoid headache clients. Smart move ...

...on Fiverr's behalf? :)

Edited June 20, 2023 by mandyzines

[kevin_etugala]

$0 with a negative review. Many sellers will leave this platform. It is important to maintain Fiverr's quality, but fairness must be ensured for both buyers and sellers. Fiverr often favors the buyers, forgetting that their platform relies on sellers. Without sellers, there would be no buyers on Fiverr. I am very disappointed about this.

[leannelrivers]

7 hours ago, mandyzines said:

on Fiverr's behalf?

Yep.