Important Update: Some canceled orders now qualify for buyer reviews

[elitedesignuk]

Let's forget conjecture and talk some FACTS

Since this came to my attention yesterday I have spent a little time to see how this would actually impact me and my gig.

I am a TRS, on the platform just over 3 years with 2,000+ 5* reviews and about 3,000 completed projects. (I also have ONE 1* review!)

I went through my cancellations and noted that there were 22 instances out of 3,000 where I cancelled the order because I simply couldn't satisfy the buyer -  this is about 1 in 150 (Note to those who say it will ONLY affect people who 'cancel alot')

I would strenuously argue that those 22 cancellations were in no way due to the quality of my service and that they were indeed 'problem' buyers - ergo; they were unavoidable.

Now - if they had been allowed to leave a review - MY GIG WOULD NOW HAVE 23 1* reviews.

It is clear to me that clients often, perhaps out of interest, ignore the 2,000+ 5* reviews and go look at my SINGLE 1* review - this isn't a big issue......but if there were 23 of them?  I think that would be a problem and it would also give a FALSE IMPRESSION of the quality of service that I provide.  Buyers are more inclined to empathize with 'other buyers' and you can be sure that those 1* reviews from cancellations due to unreasonable buyers are going to be VERY DAMNING AND VERY HARSH!

So the question is this - how does this new 'feature' help buyers when they may be dissuaded from working with a professional seller such as myself?  My conclusion is that it simply does NOT.  In fact I believe that it will have the opposite effect and give buyers LESS CONFIDENCE IN SELLERS WHO ARE DOING AND AMAZING JOB.

But to those on here who say that the only people who have to worry are those providing a 'bad / poor service' - I tell you that the FACTS from my own gig prove you wrong.

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by elitedesignuk

[cerealbx]

9 minutes ago, elitedesignuk said:

Let's forget conjecture and talk some FACTS

Since this came to my attention yesterday I have spent a little time to see how this would actually impact me and my gig.

I am a TRS, on the platform just over 3 years with 2,000+ 5* reviews and about 3,000 completed projects. (I also have ONE 1* review!)

I went through my cancellations and noted that there were 22 instances out of 3,000 where I cancelled the order because I simply couldn't satisfy the buyer -  this is about 1 in 150 (Note to those who say it will ONLY affect people who 'cancel alot')

I would strenuously argue that those 22 cancellations were in no way due to the quality of my service and that they were indeed 'problem' buyers - ergo; they were unavoidable.

Now - if they had been allowed to leave a review - MY GIG WOULD NOW HAVE 23 1* reviews.

It is clear to me that clients often, perhaps out of interest, ignore the 2,000+ 5* reviews and go look at my SINGLE 1* review - this isn't a big issue......but if there were 23 of them?  I think that would be a problem and it would also give a FALSE IMPRESSION of the quality of service that I provide.  Buyers are more inclined to empathize with 'other buyers' and you can be sure that those 1* reviews from cancellations due to unreasonable buyers are going to be VERY DAMNING AND VERY HARSH!

So the question is this - how does this new 'feature' help buyers when they may be dissuaded from working with a professional seller such as myself?  My conclusion is that it simply does NOT.  In fact I believe that it will have the opposite effect and give buyers LESS CONFIDENCE IN SELLERS WHO ARE DOING AND AMAZING JOB.

But to those on here who say that the only people who have to worry are those providing a 'bad / poor service' - I tell you that the FACTS from my own gig prove you wrong.

 

 

 

I fully agree with each of your statements. Fiverr has had many disappointing updates, but this one is definitely the worst of all. Hopefully, they will realize how dissatisfied a significant number of sellers are. I have spoken with several sellers who share the exact same opinion, and many are actively looking for alternative options because they are tired of the mistreatment they have experienced.

[elitedesignuk]

11 minutes ago, cerealbx said:

I fully agree with each of your statements. Fiverr has had many disappointing updates, but this one is definitely the worst of all. Hopefully, they will realize how dissatisfied a significant number of sellers are. I have spoken with several sellers who share the exact same opinion, and many are actively looking for alternative options because they are tired of the mistreatment they have experienced.

Precisely - I understand that there is a HUGE issue with sub-par sellers on the platform and I am fully supportive of any action taken to alleviate that problem.

However - as I believe I have proven, from my own detailed account, this update will not serve it's purpose.  Indeed it will only serve to lower the standing (unfairly) of those who actually are 'good sellers' - it will surely make things LESS transparent for buyers (my own case in point) and could ultimately drive BUYERS away from the platform.

One poster on here rightly pointed out that losing one seller doesn't matter to Fiverr but losing one buyer does....well I think that this update will result in the loss of buyers too....If sellers like me have 20+ 1* reviews - who are they going to be able to trust?  Nobody - and if they can't trust anybody the buyer is gone!

[elitedesignuk]

13 hours ago, newsmike said:

I understand. Let me ask a question, what percentage of your buyers are such "bad buyers?" I ask because as I think about what we see on an average day in the forum indicates to me that there are astronomically more unskilled scammy sellers with fake credentials than there are bad buyers.  Like 90/10%

I have answered this question in detail - please take a look at my post and feel free to comment / explain or continue advocating as to how this update is a 'good thing'.

[hightlink]

3 hours ago, visualstudios said:

What if on every gig / seller profile Fiverr showed the amount/% of canceled/completed orders? That would also let the buyers know if they were abusing the system, while not allowing a single disgruntled buyer to badmouth the seller publicly just because, and for an order that was cancelled for good reason. 

I think it is a good idea BUT keep in mind we allready have a "Order completion" thing that we must keep over 90% in order to not lose your lvl. For example I got TRS and I don't plan to lose that by canceling orders. Considering this, anyone who is LVL 2 or 3 or TRS will cancel just as much now as before, the only thing that will change is the number of negative reviews. 

I think serious sellers will be more careful with people who they will work with => less sales => less profit for fiverr => might be the first time when a decision will be reverted. Only time will tell.

Edited June 16, 2023 by hightlink

[enamcodex]

not so good for freelancer.

[visualstudios]

14 minutes ago, hightlink said:

I think it is a good idea BUT keep in mind we allready have a "Order completion" thing that we must keep over 90% in order to not lose your lvl.

Yes, but that's not visible for buyers, and that's the issue. A seller can cancel just enough to always be at 90%, and it will be indistinguishable from a seller that never cancels. If it's displayed on the profile, the buyers can see - "I can go with this guy, and have a 1/10 chance of getting my order cancelled... or I can go with this guy, that cancels 0 orders".

For example, I have 0 cancelations in the last year. Let's say I do 10 orders a month. My profile will look the exact same as another seller that also does 10 orders a month, but cancels one of them every month. That's 90%, so he won't be demoted.

Edited June 16, 2023 by visualstudios

[hightlink]

13 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Yes, but that's not visible for buyers, and that's the issue. A seller can cancel just enough to always be at 90%, and it will be indistinguishable from a seller that never cancels. If it's displayed on the profile, the buyers can see - "I can go with this guy, and have a 1/10 chance of getting my order cancelled... or I can go with this guy, that cancels 0 orders".

For example, I have 0 cancelations in the last year. Let's say I do 10 orders a month. My profile will look the exact same as another seller that also does 10 orders a month, but cancels one of them every month. That's 90%, so he won't be demoted.

I don't think anyone cancels orders that hey can complete/make sure the buyer is happy. Or is there anyone who enjoys working for free? Besides that, some sellers have more than 200+ orders a month, it's impossible to satisfy every buyer. 

I do still agree that instead of this new rule, the cancel rate should be visible on every gig. but Fiverr is a business afterall and it cares more about the people who spend money on this platform, make sure they place an order and be less less likely to receive a refund. Sellers will preffer to at least keep the money that will come with a low rating anyway.

Edited June 16, 2023 by hightlink

[mariam_15]

I'm sorry but Fiverr is getting more and more difficult for the sellers by the day.
There are already absolutely no benefits or facilities for the sellers. Their seller service fee is already higher than any other platform. They have extremely strict performance criteria and literally everything affects it which is the biggest headache and a constant source of pressure to any seller.
Gig algorithms that keep on changing every fortnight. 
What benefit do they want to get from learning about the canceled orders? no seller voluntarily likes to cancel an order. 90% of the time the orders are canceled because of fraudulent buyers who just take away free work and make excuses to cancel. The remaining 10% are canceled by the sellers as an utmost last resort when they're highly disturbed by the continued changing requirements from the buyer, free work demands, or from fear of their hostile behavior.

ever since I joined Fiverr, not once have I seen a product or an update that benefits the seller. Gig marketing tool may be one good thing out of all this, but again, it doesn't work for everyone and they're making $ out of it too.

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, visualstudios said:

And sellers would refuse, because they have no guarantee of getting paid

You would be amazed... I constantly have sellers beginning me to send them work, even at 10% or for free and eventually they would get paid with future orders. I never outsource, but I can tell you for a fact there are a lot of desperate sellers here on the platform. And that's the target of unscrupulous buyers.

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, mariam_15 said:

Their seller service fee is already higher than any other platform.

On other platforms you apply for a job and rarely get one. Fiverr does the marketing for you and buyers come to you, way different.

2 minutes ago, mariam_15 said:

no seller voluntarily likes to cancel an order.

What about those that want to avoid a bad review? 

[elitedesignuk]

5 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

What about those that want to avoid a bad review? 

You might be missing the point - But I can of course only speak for myself....

I took a look - and out of nearly 3,000 completed orders I have 22 cancellations 'post delivery' - in every instance this was due to the fact that I was unable to satisfy the buyers expectations because those expectations were either unreasonable or due to the fact that they had simply changed their mind and wanted a complete 're-make' to specs completely different to what they had initially stated (the latter being most common)

So - I cancelled.....here's the question - did I deserve a 'Bad Review'?  Would that bad review actually help buyers make a more informed decision about ordering my service?

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, elitedesignuk said:

You might be missing the point - But I can of course only speak for myself....

 

The point was that no seller would cancel voluntarily. Those people that want to avoid a bad review cancel voluntarily...

Your case is a bit different and I would include that in the category of people that end up affected by this change. However, it should make sellers be wary when it comes to who they work with. You can go and cancel before sending a delivery, or maybe you send a pre-delivery to see what the buyer thinks about it. 

[mariam_15]

6 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

On other platforms you apply for a job and rarely get one. Fiverr does the marketing for you and buyers come to you, way different.

What about those that want to avoid a bad review? 

Other platforms work both ways just like Fiverr has started buyer briefs and how clients reach out themselves. Only starting out is difficult, but once you land a few jobs and reviews, you get consistent high-quality work, same as Fiverr,

Those who cancel to avoid bad reviews to so because of the same reasons as listed above.

[donnovan86]

25 minutes ago, mariam_15 said:

Those who cancel to avoid bad reviews to so because of the same reasons as listed above.

They cancel to maintain a high rating, while hiding their bad performance. The problem is Fiverr had a lot of complaints even on the forum from buyers that had delays and even projects destroyed by sellers that just canceled to protect themselves. They never delivered on the work, and buyers ended up missing deadlines and losing a lot more money. So I was expecting this type of measure sooner than later after seeing buyer complaints.

Regarding the other platforms, it's very difficult to find work, there are always a lot of competitors on the same job. And even the gig-style things are not overly popular, based on what I saw. So yeah, I don't see them as a real alternative. 

[elitedesignuk]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

You can go and cancel before sending a delivery, or maybe you send a pre-delivery to see what the buyer thinks about it. 

That's a really great point and good advice too - however, if I am to understand the criteria correctly, they said that not ONLY a delivery would open the 'cancelled review option' but also that 'substantial contact' (or words to that effect)  - which I took to mean if there had been a, as yet undisclosed, number of messages back and forth - the 'cancelled buyer' would have the review option open to them.......I think this needs some clarification. 

[donnovan86]

10 minutes ago, elitedesignuk said:

but also that 'substantial contact' (or words to that effect)  - which I took to mean if there had been a, as yet undisclosed, number of messages back and forth

I think it was a lack of contact 😄

They said:

"Reviews for canceled orders will only be enabled in cases of late deliveries (24 hours or more) or lack of response to buyer inquiries (for 24 hours or more). Buyers will also be able to review canceled orders that include deliveries, but safeguards have been put in place to prevent abuse or misuse of this feature"

[elitedesignuk]

7 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I think it was a lack of contact 😄

They said:

"Reviews for canceled orders will only be enabled in cases of late deliveries (24 hours or more) or lack of response to buyer inquiries (for 24 hours or more). Buyers will also be able to review canceled orders that include deliveries, but safeguards have been put in place to prevent abuse or misuse of this feature"

No - it was in the Fiverr announcement......take note of the first part of point #2 - If there is Sufficient Communication....I take that to mean that if there has been a number (god knows how many!!) of message exchanges they will deem it appropriate that the buyer can leave feedback on a cancelled order - presumably because the message exchange will allow them to comment on their 'experience'.

The option to leave ratings and reviews is available in these scenarios:

1. For buyers, after an order is delivered and marked as Completed. 
2. For buyers, canceled orders with sufficient communication between the buyer and seller and orders with deliveries (upcoming).
3. Once the buyer has added feedback to the order, the seller will get the option to add their feedback. 

This needs clarification - and perhaps the devil being in the detail would give you pause to consider whether this is a good or bad update?

[hafizsajidali]

So this is very WORST NEWS for sellers and how we can say this is the fair option...THE BUYER WHO HAS ALREADY BLACKMAILED AND GOT THE WORK FREE OF COST NOW HAS THE OPTION TO DOWNGRADE US WITH NOTHING.  (Even it's NOT MAKING SENSE THAT THIS BLACKMAILING BEHAVIOUR WILL IMPROVE THE TRUST OF THE PLATFORM)

--BUYER IS NOTHING PAYING TO THE SELLER NOR TO THE FIVERR BUT STILL HAS THE OPTION TO RATE  01 STAR RATING

--THE BUYER WHO ALREADY KNOWS THESE TECHNIQUES OF BLACKMAILING THAT HE CAN CANCEL THE ORDER and can get MONEY BACK, HOW HE WILL GIVE THE FAIR REVIEW (Even it's NOT MAKING SENSE THAT THIS BLACKMAILING BEHAVIOUR WILL IMPROVE THE TRUST OF THE PLATFORM)

--DEFINITELY, FIVERR IS GIVING A SILENT MESSAGE TO ITS TALENT THAT 04 TO 05 YEARS OF A SELLER HARD WORK CAN BE RATED(RUINED) BY A BUYER WITHOUT ANY COST

--NO DOUBT IF THERE IS NO BUYER THEN THERE WILL BE NO BUSINESS FOR SELLERS BUT THE BUYER MEANS THOSE WHO PAY FOR SERVICES, NOT THE BLACKMAILER WHO HAS GOTTEN HIS MONEY BACK AND NOW HAS THE RIGHT TO RUIN YOUR CAREER

FIVERR MUST REVIEW BLOCK THIS OPTION

[donnovan86]

4 minutes ago, elitedesignuk said:

good or bad update?

Every update would have good or bad parts. I think the sufficient communication is about the seller getting all the info he needs to work on the project. If he has the info and accepted it, then any cancellation would come from his side. 

[hightlink]

11 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Every update would have good or bad parts. I think the sufficient communication is about the seller getting all the info he needs to work on the project. If he has the info and accepted it, then any cancellation would come from his side. 

If 2-3 persons tells you that something is bad, they might be wrong, but when almost everybody tells you that something is bad, what are the chances that you're wrong and not them? Just take a minute to consider it.

[vickiespencer]

2 hours ago, mariam_15 said:

Their seller service fee is already higher than any other platform.

Have you read this post from this thread? 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by vickiespencer

[donnovan86]

34 minutes ago, hightlink said:

Just take a minute to consider it.

This is very subjective. The fact that you only see the bad parts shows you are very subjective. There are positives too. 

Obviously I am not a fan of cancellations penalizing sellers, but as far as I saw the situations are very specific. And as the Fiverr team said, you can go to customer support and they will look at things objectively. If you fulfill your work the way you promised in the gig description, then you should be fine since Fiverr has your back.

We will have to wait and see. Honestly this should affect me the most because I tend to be a higher volume seller, which means the chances of dealing with bad buyers are much higher. But, as I said, for me it's a wait and see situation. I will certainly have to make some gig changes, that's for sure.

Edited June 16, 2023 by donnovan86

[hightlink]

4 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

This is very subjective. The fact that you only see the bad parts shows you are very subjective. There are positives too. 

Obviously I am not a fan of cancellations penalizing sellers, but as far as I saw the situations are very specific. And as the Fiverr team said, you can go to customer support and they will look at things objectively. If you fulfill your work the way you promised in the gig description, then you should be fine since Fiverr has your back.

We will have to wait and see. Honestly this should affect me the most because I tend to be a higher volume seller, which means the chances of dealing with bad buyers are much higher. But, as I said, for me it's a wait and see situation. I will certainly have to make some gig changes, that's for sure.

I think In 10 years I have 100 tickets opened, most of the time is just a standard answer, no review will be removed because "the buyer has the right to share it's exeprience". Doesen't matter how absurd a review is.

I've also placed 30+ orders as a buyer on here, I can say I understand both ups and downs of this update. 

[donnovan86]

20 minutes ago, hightlink said:

Doesen't matter how absurd a review is.

We are talking about reviews for canceled orders though. Hopefully they are more lenient here. If they stick with the standard procedure for regular reviews, I agree that would be pretty bad.