Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[williambryan392]

Also, now a 4.7 review comes with a 'Well done!'. I think previously only 5* orders did. I think this is a nice touch re trying to normalise less than 5* reviews.

 

[visualstudios]

That's very interesting - specially given how 4.7 is the minimum to keep TRS status (theoretically at least), and you need 4.4 even for level 1. Interesting to know if 4.3 will also say well done, as Fiverr has been saying that 4.0-4.9 is good, and more trustworthy than 5.

Edited March 15 by visualstudios

[cucinavivace]

3 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

Also, now a 4.7 review comes with a 'Well done!'. I think previously only 5* orders did. I think this is a nice touch re trying to normalise less than 5* reviews.

I think when it comes to this part, they just want to look like (I don't know if I can say other platform names in here). 4.8 over at the top dog is downright excellent. Lookit all those TRS under 5.

[visualstudios]

1 minute ago, cucinavivace said:

I think when it comes to this part, they just want to look like (I don't know if I can say other platform names in here). 4.8 over at the top dog is downright excellent. Lookit all those TRS under 5.

What platform is that? Looks suspiciously like fiverr,

[rudyabel]

16 minutes ago, cucinavivace said:

I think they're intentionally trying to get rid of some dead weight. There are over a million of us and over 4M buyers. We have seen for a long time it's a strain on CS. And frankly, if people doing 100 gigs a month perfectly can absorb the business of the folks doing two or three gigs a month, why not? (from their perspective) The buyers get their service, Fiverr still gets their commission, and they have less to deal with

This is assuming that it hasn't been the condition from the beginning. 
Fiverr is series of self fulfilling prophesies. Those of us that have been with it for a while have seen some people blast out of the gate and get tons of exposure from the get go. They received some favor from someone. Not the algorithm, someone. The algorithm is incapable of make aesthetic choices. Pro and TRS are chosen manually. So it's not like there is no precedence for this opinion. It's usually the favored that get the most exposure. And thereby gets the most business. Most of the business goes to the first two rows of the top page. And only certain people get to live there. The self fulfilling prophecy comes in when Fiverr turns around and says " See, he made it." Even though it was by design. 

I can see where it should cut out problem people. But this should be surgery , not carpentry. 

Fiverr may be trying to shake it's "five dollar" image. But at the same time it enjoys the meat wagon of people crunching out hurried work for 10 bucks a pop in order to get the cheap volume ticket crowd. I believe the Pro effort is paying off for the business sector of the market. I haven't done a prom night Voice over since I raised my prices. I deal with business and commercials now. 

[cucinavivace]

7 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

What platform is that? Looks suspiciously like fiverr,

Actually Fiverr now looks suspiciously like them I think, though not exactly. It's Upwork. This is Fiverr.

Edited March 15 by cucinavivace

[visualstudios]

1 minute ago, cucinavivace said:

Actually Fiverr now looks suspiciously like them I think. It's Upwork.

In small details like the success score, sure. But the entire business model? Fiverr has always been a storefront, where buyers contact sellers. Upwork has always been a bidding platform, where buyers post jobs and sellers have to apply. This means Fiverr is infinitely more interesting from a seller perspective - if I wanted to be constantly applying to jobs, freelance work would be hell, at that point may as well just try to get a job where I have to apply only once.

[cucinavivace]

6 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

In small details like the success score, sure. But the entire business model? Fiverr has always been a storefront, where buyers contact sellers. Upwork has always been a bidding platform, where buyers post jobs and sellers have to apply. This means Fiverr is infinitely more interesting from a seller perspective - if I wanted to be constantly applying to jobs, freelance work would be hell, at that point may as well just try to get a job where I have to apply only once.

Buyers have always been able to find you on Upwork. You just have to click on the marketplace/find talent/whatever they call it and Fiverr's is that upfront. They still have bidding on job requests too, which Fiverr now has as briefs. Both are two way now. Upwork was two way first.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. The point I wanted to make was just that 5.0 is pretty rare over there, and their reputation certainly hasn't suffered for it.

Edited March 15 by cucinavivace

[allstral]

12 minutes ago, cucinavivace said:

I think when it comes to this part, they just want to look like (I don't know if I can say other platform names in here). 4.8 over at the top dog is downright excellent. Lookit all those TRS under 5.

Wow, since when did this happen? we can do 5r things there right now?

[emmaki]

Upwork took the gigs idea from Fiverr a few years ago... 

[maitasun]

41 minutes ago, cucinavivace said:

I think they're intentionally trying to get rid of some dead weight. There are over a million of us and over 4M buyers. We have seen for a long time it's a strain on CS. And frankly, if people doing 100 gigs a month perfectly can absorb the business of the folks doing two or three gigs a month, why not? (from their perspective) The buyers get their service, Fiverr still gets their commission, and they have less to deal with.

I suppose this explains why cheaters and scammers with hundreds and thousands of reviews keep showing as level 2 sellers and popping up in search results.

[cucinavivace]

6 minutes ago, emmaki said:

Upwork took the gigs idea from Fiverr a few years ago... 

 

And Fiverr took the job bidding from whoever last year. 😉

Thanks for the article that it's 2021. My buyers there have always been able to contact me and I left before the gig "marketplace" part. Guess my old memory thought it longer ago.

 

Edited March 15 by cucinavivace

[tksk_nsk]

I got more specific information about the system from support. First, about this...

Support:

"Client satisfaction - Client satisfaction is measured by looking at different information from reviews you received. This includes public ratings and anonymous ones. Sometimes, the private ratings are very different from the public ones. This means that clients may have concerns or issues that haven't been fully addressed, despite what you may have initially thought about their satisfaction."

SO they are telling us, that we had private evaluations for X years, I many of us dont had any idea about. Was this information really available from the beginning in a public post?

Even if it existed, if it THAT information was going to be used as a metric in the future, it was something that Fiverr had to be constantly reminded to all sellers.

Minimum: "Hey, month reminder that clients can leave reviews/feeback to us that you cant see, related to topics like THIS, THIS and THIS (because have no idea what in the heaves Fiverr was asking to my clients for my 100% five star rating gigs get evaluated with 5-7 scores),  so becareful because we gonna use it in a future ;)."

How can a seller who has been working on Fiverr for years recover from that? Fiverr using THAT information in this way, it can only be understood that they use it to harm us in these new system. It's not fair. Those metrics should be reset or at least that only those from a time period of 1 year are taken into account.

Now, things become spicy!

Support says THAT ghost information that we never going to know about, but sure is gonna to be use agianst us, do not represent the total score, ok, then regarding the other part of the score, they respond...

Support:

"Client satisfaction - Client satisfaction is measured...
 
Keep in mind that each Gig’s history is examined to determine an individual score, relative to other freelancers in the same category and price benchmark. Consequently, your Gig's rating is influenced by the performance of other Gigs and sellers.
 
Conflict-free orders -  The conflict-free orders key area...
 
Keep in mind that each Gig’s history is examined to determine an individual score, relative to other freelancers in the same category and price benchmark. Consequently, your Gig's rating is influenced by the performance of other Gigs and sellers.

Communication - The key area of effective...
 
Keep in mind that each Gig’s history is examined to determine an individual score, relative to other freelancers in the same category and price benchmark. Consequently, your Gig's rating is influenced by the performance of other Gigs and sellers."

 

All here can see it, right? Is like Fiverr's goal is force to all sellers to be equal. Also, due to lack of information, we have to speculate, for me, looks Fiverr are not evaluating circumstances...

DELIVERY TIMES

At least in the artistic field, I think can be a huge range of times betwen sellers, it depends on the mood and creativity of the each artist, they have their own inspirations times or workflows times...

I'm Illustrator, so happens to me too, and also I have something to add... I HAVE AN CONDITION IN MY LEAD HAND.

My delivery time is going to be slower compared to other healthy seller. It is impossible for me to compete. At the beginning of any order I always tell my clients that I work slow. It is impossible for me to compete. What about the accessibility principles? :,)

Regardless, my clients CHOOSE to work with me.

EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION

The native English speakers can express themselves more easily and, therefore, the sale can be completed more quickly. Others, like me, have learned, it takes us a little longer to express ourselves, anyway we have still managed to communicate enough good to deliver a product according to client's wishes BUT if a not-native are compared to native, obviously, stats from natives related to communications skills are gonna to be more satisfactory.

REPLY TIMES HOURS

Are seller who use Fiverr as a full-time job and others as a part-time job. As a long the sellers respond in a range decided by them self which by the way is an option that even does not exist, this should not be compared, are different ways that sellers decide to time-spent in their gigs due their circunstances.

INTERACTION REPLY/DELIVERY TIME

I, Only I, worker in my gig products, sometimes I get help from friend, that's all. Now, there are many sellers who really are "studios" and they offer products (of questionable quality) for a very low price and very fast delivery. Of course they have exceptional statistics, they have two-five or more people working at the same time, 24/7, and honestly I don't care at all these groups from third world how are giving their lifes for penies (I can say this because Im also from the third world), but I CARE and it affects me when my service and product are valued taking a mean counting their inhuman statistics.

VALUE FOR MONEY

-Seller: Hi! I am selling this model drawn with a simple outfit for $XX.
-Client: Good! I want it, and I want to add a hat, a rings, some boots, flamed hair and a baby dragon on my shoulder.
-Seller: Ok, that add a extra cost.
-Client: >:/
-Fiverr: >:/

[vhskid]

7 minutes ago, tksk_nsk said:

I got more specific information about the system from support.

This is old news. 

Look here for more info:

 

 

 

And this forum section in general:

https://community.fiverr.com/forums/forum/300-news-from-the-product-team/

 

 

 

[williambryan392]

6 minutes ago, tksk_nsk said:

Was this information really available from the beginning in a public post?

Private reviews were never a secret. This information has always been available in the help center and also talked about regularly on the forum. Also if you ever purchased something on Fiverr you saw it when reviewing.

Private reviews always impacted a sellers position (or 'rank' as some people insist on calling it) on the Fiverr marketplace. Sellers were also always compared to other sellers.

This data has always been used by Fiverr to decide where to position you. The key difference now is that you see more of the data.

I understand why people are annoyed by the changes and  annoyed by the communication of the changes, but to be surprised that your positioning is relative to other sellers and that your performance is compared to other sellers to decide that positioning should not be surprising.

 

[crackedprism]

If 95% of your seller feel that this is the wrong move, aren't you slapping them in the face? Even if you feel like it's better? We are the reason your company makes money. Why insult us like this?

[levinewman]

52 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

Private reviews were never a secret. This information has always been available in the help center and also talked about regularly on the forum. Also if you ever purchased something on Fiverr you saw it when reviewing.

Private reviews always impacted a sellers position (or 'rank' as some people insist on calling it) on the Fiverr marketplace. Sellers were also always compared to other sellers.

This data has always been used by Fiverr to decide where to position you. The key difference now is that you see more of the data.

I understand why people are annoyed by the changes and  annoyed by the communication of the changes, but to be surprised that your positioning is relative to other sellers and that your performance is compared to other sellers to decide that positioning should not be surprising.

 

This analogy never works and let me tell you why. 

If you have a spouse and they tell you every day you're amazing, but they secretly tell their therapist you're a total piece of junk as a spouse, you aren't seeing the full picture. 

Here's the rub: neither of them ever tell you that you are doing things wrong.

But now, that therapist quickly reveals you've been messing up the entire time and you have 30 days to fix it all before you're forced to get divorced. 

That. That is how this entire thing worked. 

Fiverr didn't ever fix the existing problems until they said, "Oh yeah, I'm leaving you, you have 30 days to fix a problem that's unfixable in 30 days. YAY!" 

Stop carrying water for a poorly designed system. You're carrying water for Fiverr when it makes no logical sense to have this system designed in this specific way, and then expect people to completely change their abilities within such a tight window. 

It's simply bad implementation, bad management, bad communication, and bad leadership. 

Edited March 15 by levinewman

[mandyzines]

12 minutes ago, levinewman said:

"Oh yeah, I'm leaving you, you have 30 days to fix a problem that's unfixable in 30 days. YAY!" 

"I'll tie your hands and deprive you of sensory input, just to spice things up."

(in reference to the lower visibility in search and therefore means to gain more reviews, as well as a true understanding of what exactly needs to be done by that time to rectify the situation)

It's a crazy-making situation. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/counseling-keys/201403/how-handle-crazymaker

Edited March 15 by mandyzines

[williambryan392]

33 minutes ago, levinewman said:

This analogy never works and let me tell you why. 

 

I used an analogy in another post a few weeks ago, and it was about being surprised when a partner leaves you when they told you the day before they loved you. It hurts, it's surprising, but maybe there were problems you didn't see. So it seems were on the same or similar page viewing it this way.

33 minutes ago, levinewman said:

That. That is how this entire thing worked. 

 

I don't disagree.

33 minutes ago, levinewman said:

bad implementation, bad management, bad communication

I agree it could have been communicated better, and had fewer/no bugs. I made this point when I first posted. 

33 minutes ago, levinewman said:

bad leadership.

The thing is they aren't my leaders. They are leaders for their employees and their shareholders, and I guess this was a data led good move by Fiverr, FOR Fiverr (like @cucinavivace referred to Uber), at least this is their intention. Let's see.

33 minutes ago, levinewman said:

Stop carrying water for a poorly designed system. You're carrying water for Fiverr when it makes no logical sense to have this system designed in this specific way

I've moaned about plenty of things when it comes to Fiverr, things that can be designed or done better. As sellers though you and I don't have to agree on everything. You can have your opinion and I can have mine, and that's ok.

33 minutes ago, levinewman said:

then expect people to completely change their abilities within such a tight window. 

Do you really think they expect that when it's based on the last 2 years of data, or were these just some nice words to motivate. I think it was to motivate.

I don't actually think we disagree on much, yeah it's surprising, unfair to some, badly communicated and buggy. But for some sellers to be surprised that private reviews impact your standing... really? That's a surprise? That was my point in that particular comment.

Finally I'll add, I'm not on Fiverr for levels, or reviews, or ratings. I'm here for revenue. Now if that drops dramatically for lots of sellers after this change I'll have big concerns about this change. If revenue remains similar then all that's changed is optics, and I don't really care about optics. This will take some time to see.

[levinewman]

10 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

Do you really think they expect that when it's based on the last 2 years of data, or were these just some nice words to motivate. I think it was to motivate.

I don't actually think we disagree on much, yeah it's surprising, unfair to some, badly communicated and buggy. But for some sellers to be surprised that private reviews impact your standing... really? That's a surprise? That was my point in that particular comment.

Finally I'll add, I'm not on Fiverr for levels, or reviews, or ratings. I'm here for revenue. Now if that drops dramatically for lots of sellers after this change I'll have big concerns about this change. If revenue remains similar then all that's changed is optics, and I don't really care about optics. This will take some time to see.

See, that's where you're seeing it differently. 

To Fiverr, it's 2 years of data. To us, it's nothing. People can't adjust to something they don't know. That's like you trying to build a rocket in the next month, but you have a culinary degree. Can you adjust, sure. Can you build a rocket in 30 days when you've been a chef your whole life? Extremely doubtful. 

You might not care about optics, but plenty of people and businesses do. See: Anheuser-Busch. 

Optics are everything, regardless of one's perspective. Because, generally speaking, everyone can see the optics if they're willing to just look. And the forums show that, regardless of your standing as a PRO seller, you are in the minority when it comes to these optics. 

You are right, though. We can respectfully disagree. It's just that in this instance, the large majority can see this mess for what it is--a serious mess no matter the optics.

[leonormiserol]

24 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

But for some sellers to be surprised that private reviews impact your standing... really? That's a surprise? That was my point in that particular comment.

For me and for many it is a surprise, since most orders are completed with 5 stars, tips and good reviews. That is the point. How can we know that something is wrong in our relationship with the client if all we know is that he is in love with our work?
So the answer is yes, it is a surprise to many.

[williambryan392]

6 minutes ago, levinewman said:

Optics are everything, regardless of one's perspective.

I think people are only caring about the optics because they fear it’s going to hit their revenue. If everyone here knew they were going to make more money now they wouldn’t be nearly so much up in arms about it. My point is we don’t know this yet, and until we do we shouldn’t give into fear.

2 minutes ago, leonormiserol said:

For me and for many it is a surprise, since most orders are completed with 5 stars, tips and good reviews. That is the point. How can we know that something is wrong in our relationship with the client if all we know is that he is in love with our work?
So the answer is yes, it is a surprise to many

And these positive public reviews probably came with mostly equally positive private reviews. But what about all the orders that didn’t rate you publicly? They may still have rated you privately, and perhaps not positively. 

Ever been to a restaurant and told the waiter everything was great when in fact it wasn’t? I know I have. I dont want the hassle of making the negativity public, but if I could tell them secretly what I thought with no consequence or awkwardness then maybe I would.

Admittedly I don’t think it’s cool they are now making elements of the private review public, but the private reviews have always been there, and always had an impact.

[vhskid]

1 hour ago, levinewman said:

2 hours ago, williambryan392 said:

Private reviews were never a secret. This information has always been available in the help center and also talked about regularly on the forum. Also if you ever purchased something on Fiverr you saw it when reviewing.

Private reviews always impacted a sellers position (or 'rank' as some people insist on calling it) on the Fiverr marketplace. Sellers were also always compared to other sellers.

This data has always been used by Fiverr to decide where to position you. The key difference now is that you see more of the data.

I understand why people are annoyed by the changes and  annoyed by the communication of the changes, but to be surprised that your positioning is relative to other sellers and that your performance is compared to other sellers to decide that positioning should not be surprising.

 

Expand  

This analogy never works and let me tell you why. 

If you have a spouse and they tell you every day you're amazing, but they secretly tell their therapist you're a total piece of junk as a spouse, you aren't seeing the full picture. 

Here's the rub: neither of them ever tell you that you are doing things wrong.

But now, that therapist quickly reveals you've been messing up the entire time and you have 30 days to fix it all before you're forced to get divorced. 

That. That is how this entire thing worked. 

Fiverr didn't ever fix the existing problems until they said, "Oh yeah, I'm leaving you, you have 30 days to fix a problem that's unfixable in 30 days. YAY!" 

Stop carrying water for a poorly designed system. You're carrying water for Fiverr when it makes no logical sense to have this system designed in this specific way, and then expect people to completely change their abilities within such a tight window. 

It's simply bad implementation, bad management, bad communication, and bad leadership. 

 

It's logical (disappointing but not surprising) that sellers who weren't negatively affected by the new system (e.g. still sit on their intact TRS status), won't criticize it as much as people whose profiles / gigs were hurt. 

But it's nice to see "unaffected TRS" @levinewman (at least status-wise) who sees the system's faults with a broader, deeper, and more careful perspective.

 

 

Edited March 15 by vhskid

[levinewman]

Just now, williambryan392 said:

I think people are only caring about the optics because they fear it’s going to hit their revenue. If everyone here knew they were going to make more money now they wouldn’t be nearly so much up in arms about it. My point is we don’t know this yet, and until we do we shouldn’t give into fear.

I want to say very clearly I appreciate and respect your perspective. Debating can feel heavy on the internet, so I want to say it plainly so you do know I care about what you're saying.

Regarding the above, I don't know how long you've been on Fiverr, but from my perspective (10 years here) I think it's an honest reaction to the amount of negative changes I've personally seen in my time here. I think fear is the focal point of everything Fiverr does to maintain control. Changes are almost never done without creating a negative impact on sellers. 

I think the poor communication and poor rollout are the major reasons why people are up in arms and because of these two factors, they are seriously worried about their revenue. And when you implement such massive changes, and it does impact someone's financial stability directly without regard to their well-being and security, then it's 100% your fault and you (Fiverr) deserve to be held accountable.

[levinewman]

3 minutes ago, vhskid said:

 

It's logical (disappointing but not surprising) that sellers who weren't negatively affected by the new system (e.g. still sit on their intact TRS status), won't criticize it as much as people whose profiles / gigs were hurt. 

But it's nice to see "unaffected TRS" (at least status-wise) who sees the system's faults with a broader, deeper, and more careful perspective.

 

 

I 100% agree with this statement. I'm a PRO, TRS, and rated 10 and I still think the entire thing is ludicrous.