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Update: Addressing new level system questions and feedback


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23 minutes ago, rapidtech1898v2 said:

Today my sucess score changed 3 times from 7 to 6 and now again to 7

That seems to show the timeline is very specific, instead of 2 months it might be 6 months.. at least for the latest orders. Or maybe it is 2 months for the orders that have more importance. Makes sense. 

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3 hours ago, melissaskye_ said:

What I'm struggling to understand is why the buyer isn't presented with stars 1-5 to provide a rating. In my mind, the most accurate and foolproof way to calculate a 'starred' rating system is to provide the buyer with stars to rate with... doesn't make sense to me.

Because it's easier—and makes Fiverr look totally innocent—to trick most of the buyers and get them not to rate their sellers with 5* (if that's what the buyers really want to rate) instead of telling them "Don't rate your sellers 5*!"

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all these changes Fiverr has applied over the last year demonstrate that we're alone in this, they effectively care more about the buyers. I wish we'd have a feature to objectively rate buyers as much as they can rate us, including private reviews. Only we know how stressful it is to work with a buyer who abuses and asks for unlimited revisions, Fiverr has never done anything to limit how many revisions they can ask, why do I even get to set a number of revisions when I create a custom offer?? I have been a top-rated seller for over 2 years now, and the only reason I got this level and still maintain it is because I trust my gut and choose whom to work with. It's sad to see a marketplace like Fiverr fall into all this, they haven't realized yet that without us, they wouldn't have any "updates" to make in the first place. 

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52 minutes ago, rapidtech1898v2 said:

It seems the complete platform is going nuts currently
Today my sucess score changed 3 times from 7 to 6 and now again to 7
Gigs are showing sometimes a "-" and sometimes a value between "-" and 8

And the best thing is i haven´t done anything today (no orders, no approvals, no reviews, nothing).

It could be funny if this score would be irrelevant for me... 😏

This is an indication these scores are indeed being done by AI. It's giving different evaluations at different times. Super-transparent, super-reliable.

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1 minute ago, ahunyady said:

This is an indication these scores are indeed being done by AI. It's giving different evaluations at different times. Super-transparent, super-reliable.

it's clear that the AI still needs a LOT of data training to achieve what they want it to do, they're so focused on automating their platform that some sellers are going to pay for their errors 

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1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

Yes, it's been like that for a while. They can't cancel the order without the buyer accepting it first. I had people place orders for stuff I don't cover, and I went to customer support, then still had to wait until either the person canceled or the order canceled automatically due to a lack of reply.

Recently, I had a customer, who wanted me to make a transcript of a complex audio and use it on another website to pass their internal exam and work as a transriber. So, I make a transcript, and my customer passes the exam to earn money.

Customer Support refused to cancel it on their end while telling me:

Quote

"In case you believe the buyer's requirements may violate a third party's guidelines, you are welcome to reject working on such an order so feel free to send the buyer a cancelation request."

I believe I can fly... I believe I can touch the sky 😄 

BRqLf3tCQAEJYak.jpg.a01bcaef569220259e30a14d0a56752c.jpg

Sorry!

A year ago, I had an order with a lof of manuals on how to hack bank accounts by implementing malware into regular apps, creating bots to steal data, and so on. This is their reply:

Quote

Seeing that your Gig offers translating texts, you are allowed to perform those translations if you would like since a translation service is allowed on Fiverr.

No comments here 🤪

Now, with the implementation of the Success Score, I don't really see a reason to contact them with these issues. In all situations, you have to cancel it via the resolution center. 

Edited by vovkaslovesnyy
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image.png.0058358d18c5fe6328a3a7903d3ccc63.pngTalking about bugs:

I made everything possible to deliver this order on time, did so as well and now it's showing as 2hrs late 😄 (the delivery date was 2hrs ago..)

My metric for this is on "strong negative impact" - let's see what CS is saying about that 😅

Edited by almostfauxreal
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5 minutes ago, almostfauxreal said:

image.png.0058358d18c5fe6328a3a7903d3ccc63.pngTalking about bugs:

I made everything possible to deliver this order on time, did so as well and now it's showing as 2hrs late 😄 (the delivery date was 2hrs ago..)

My metric for this is on "strong negative impact" - let's see what CS is saying about that 😅

I've noticed - I'm not sure if it's always been like this or not) that orders that are delivered way ahead of time show x days late until they are accepted. 

I always felt like this is just the system (and never had any issues in the prior system) but if we think back to what was told before (I think it was mentioned that revisions, etc. should be done during the initial time set for the orders as well) there could be something strange at work.

(Or not and it's just weirdly phrased.)

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2 hours ago, uk1000 said:

In theory yes, but they might not add up every decision like that into a system, with them also now going into deep learning/neural networks (as well as machine learning - not the neural net type of AI). They probably track tons of things/variables (or features) and could decide what constitutes a good result (eg. gigs making high amounts of money consistently, conversions, returning customers etc.) and then have the AI/machine learning model find what features most predict that and use that. So that output could give some score for the gig/user without them manually creating it on a points based system (adding or removing set point values) - it would be more automatically found out from the data (eg. more statistical).

You can get an idea of how their machine learning/AI systems work from their youtube channel (though it's not spoken in English and it hasn't had new videos for months):

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv7Yasr435wH1RsQLmbBKOw/videos

You can get idea of their machine learning stuff (not the newer neural network/deep learning stuff) from their Medium page and the other articles they create (but the Fiverr Tech channel there hasn't been updated for a while), eg:

https://medium.com/fiverr-engineering/feature-selection-beyond-feature-importance-9b97e5a842f

Their main page there:

https://medium.com/fiverr-engineering?source=post_page-----9b97e5a842f--------------------------------

First of all thanks for providing these links, luckily some slides are in English so I can have a broad idea, at least.

You know what? Right now I don't want to know exactly how their algorithm formula works but, for instance, I just want to know that if I'm setting a gig with a 3-day delivery and I have an unresponsive client and then I request an extension, do I get penalized by asking for an extension? Apparently, no (but is that really true?).
Someone could say "A member of the staff wrote that on the forum", wait, what? I'm expecting to see it right on the platform, not on their forum!
Instead of writing "set a realistic delivery time" they should say "set a realistic delivery time to avoid getting penalized - read more".

Pretty much like when you write the word "email" on Fiverr chat and a tooltip warns you about using that term.
Too much text for a tooltip? Ok, make an article listing good and bad behaviors that could impact sellers' scores.
This is the type of transparency I'd like to see.

If you, Fiverr, really want to make people better sellers you just need to warn people before they make a bad decision, not after they make it (especially because, right now, the seller's analytics don't help much in that sense).

Let's say, I write a not-very-clear gig description and this leads to a cancellation, right before confirming it Fiverr should tell me how heavy the impact of this decision will be (and a wise person would immediately go to read more about writing efficient gig descriptions).
So, mistake after mistake new sellers will learn how to use Fiverr just by using the platform, this is how experience is made.

Instead, a week later, I see sellers left alone and some of them are trying to fix this tough situation by exchanging feedback and theories by sharing their own experiences to find a way to improve the success score by pausing or deleting gigs. Maybe two days ago deleting not-performing gigs was a smart move, but today after someone made edits to the algorithm, it could have been a bad decision and now those gigs are gone.
I perfectly understand people trying to improve their success scores in one way or another, but this is not how things should work.
This should be something Fiverr needs to do, not the sellers.

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38 minutes ago, vovkaslovesnyy said:

I had an order with a lof of manuals on how to hack bank accounts by implementing malware into regular apps, creating bots to steal data, and so on.

That sort of thing is fine unless you become a famous YouTube meme doing it. Then it's not fine anymore.

 

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Hey there, I wanted to point out something about the new system that seems really unfair to longtime sellers. Just think about it: there's a seller who's been on Fiverr for ages, has tons of reviews, and a success score of 4, but they're still stuck at Level 0. Meanwhile, there's a new seller with just 10 or 12 reviews who's already reached Level 2. It just doesn't seem right to me.

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On 2/19/2024 at 11:32 AM, amberlilyreadin said:

I often pause my gig to control my workflow. I'll get way too many orders if I keep it active all the time. My gig while active is a 10, but I just noticed today that my score dipped to a 6 after pausing. Because it only measures active gigs, and I only have 1 gig. So, apparently my score dips if I pause it. This seems like it's going to cause a lot of sellers anxiety when they want to take a break. We shouldn't feel punished for that.

I'm also hesitant to start any new gigs, because I feel like it will negatively affect this score. There isn't enough transparency in how this all works for me to feel comfortable enough to expand my work here on Fiverr. Currently, creating new gigs feels like a risk rather than an opportunity.

You don't have to pause the gig manually though, why aren't you just clicking "limit number of orders in queue" 

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21 minutes ago, codecells said:

Hey there, I wanted to point out something about the new system that seems really unfair to longtime sellers. Just think about it: there's a seller who's been on Fiverr for ages, has tons of reviews, and a success score of 4, but they're still stuck at Level 0. Meanwhile, there's a new seller with just 10 or 12 reviews who's already reached Level 2. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Nothing is right on Fiverr for now 🙂 so this is completely normal in their eyes 

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@emmaki I already paused one of my gig by thinking it will improve my score. But nothing happened for me! I am seeing different writing: Like One staff saying it will impact but other is saying it won't impact.

What can I do then? Should I active that gig!

I know you are not the Fiverr staff but still asking if you get any solution on it 😞

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10 hours ago, graphicsplayer said:

same concern here. This new so-called transparent system is showing that cancellations are strongly negatively impacting the score on one of my gigs while there are only 4 cancellations out of 100 orders in the past 3 months. 
Furthermore, of the 4 cancellations, three resulted from the buyer's carelessness (requesting a service that wasn't part of my gig or making a mistaken order). I even contacted customer service during this time to remove the impact of these three cancellations and CS made sure the impact was erased.

My CS manager confirmed there is a bug regarding cancellations made by CS and it is not calculating our scores correctly. 

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so I just thought I'd come here and add this to the discussion for anyone who'd care. I use the Early Payout (EP for short) option quite frequently, depending on the amount of orders I'm working on at the moment (sometimes I can't afford to wait 2 weeks per order because the nature of my gig demands long delivery times which make it hard to wait 2 weeks on top of that after the deliveries). After the new system was launched and Early Payout became a TRS exclusive officially, all my orders that were on pending clearance status at the moment got the EP button greyed out. After a couple of days, seemingly out of nowhere, the button became active again, so I got everything out in case it was just a bug on the system before it was deactivated again. Since then, I've delivered three more orders and, to my surprise, the EP button has been active and functioning as expected with no issues. I am not TRS, not Fiverr Pro nor on the Seller Plus program. So, either the effect of this new update hasn't been made active yet on that, or seems like some sellers are still being allowed to use it despite not having the required level (Like when it was introduced as a beta feature). I thought this was an interesting (albeit confusing) thing, so, in case any of you are dependent on it and/or have any concerns about it, thought this might be an interesting read for you. 

Edited by virgoca
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I got two 4.7 review in the last few days just related to the new metrics Value for Money. Still, I got tips for both orders and very nice words in feedback about client' experience. I do not understand this parameter at all. I do not force clients to order my service, so if they choose it they should consider if it is cost-effective for them. Should we all sell our services for $5 to get 5 stars for Value for money?
This new review system is a disaster. 

Edited by ana_standret
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@Kesha


I don't know if this is the right place to talk, but I think it still has something to do with the new level system.
So I thought, maybe the Fiverr team could hear it.
I find this new system interesting and measures whether or not we are worthy enough to reach the level we should be at.
It's like if we are level 2, then provide quality work as a level 2 seller.

The way clients rate us from various aspects is good to help us sellers maintain good work but at the same time it is a bit difficult if clients don't care even though we have done a good job.
In my experience, I once got so many tips but clients kept giving me only 4 stars, and they repeated orders.

So, if I may suggest, maybe in this new level system, TIP can add to our score.
Because there are several clients who have thoughts like this

"My tip was more than enough to appreciate the seller's good work.
So I no longer need to fill out reviews / judge based on reviews"

So if clients who tip can add to our score, it will be very helpful for balancing in this new level system.

Edited by gunawanguan
failed to mention someone name's here.
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3 minutes ago, ana_standret said:

I got two 4.7 review in the last few days just related to the new metrics Value for Money. Still, I got tips for both orders and very nice words in feedback about client' experience. I do not understand this parameter at all. I do not force clients to order my service, so if they choose it they should consider if it is cost-effective for them. Should we all sell our services for $5 to get 5 stars for Value for money?
This new review system is a disaster. 

@Kesha

This is some of the case that I mean where "TIP" from client sometimes speak up more than their review.
So if Fiverr can add TIP as a plus score, that will make this new level system better and balance.

Thanks.

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3 hours ago, edc_lab said:

First of all thanks for providing these links, luckily some slides are in English so I can have a broad idea, at least.

You know what? Right now I don't want to know exactly how their algorithm formula works but, for instance, I just want to know that if I'm setting a gig with a 3-day delivery and I have an unresponsive client and then I request an extension, do I get penalized by asking for an extension? Apparently, no (but is that really true?).
Someone could say "A member of the staff wrote that on the forum", wait, what? I'm expecting to see it right on the platform, not on their forum!
Instead of writing "set a realistic delivery time" they should say "set a realistic delivery time to avoid getting penalized - read more".

Pretty much like when you write the word "email" on Fiverr chat and a tooltip warns you about using that term.
Too much text for a tooltip? Ok, make an article listing good and bad behaviors that could impact sellers' scores.
This is the type of transparency I'd like to see.

If you, Fiverr, really want to make people better sellers you just need to warn people before they make a bad decision, not after they make it (especially because, right now, the seller's analytics don't help much in that sense).

Let's say, I write a not-very-clear gig description and this leads to a cancellation, right before confirming it Fiverr should tell me how heavy the impact of this decision will be (and a wise person would immediately go to read more about writing efficient gig descriptions).
So, mistake after mistake new sellers will learn how to use Fiverr just by using the platform, this is how experience is made.

Instead, a week later, I see sellers left alone and some of them are trying to fix this tough situation by exchanging feedback and theories by sharing their own experiences to find a way to improve the success score by pausing or deleting gigs. Maybe two days ago deleting not-performing gigs was a smart move, but today after someone made edits to the algorithm, it could have been a bad decision and now those gigs are gone.
I perfectly understand people trying to improve their success scores in one way or another, but this is not how things should work.
This should be something Fiverr needs to do, not the sellers.

I love the points you are making, but let's take this a step further: what if i need an extension anyway? We are NOT employees. That's the whole point of hiring a freelancer in the first place. We are not employees and we are not beheld to the same standards as employees because we do not have the same rights and protections.

When I started my business, I was young and carefree. Now I have a young boy, and try as I may, things are not the same anymore. I work my ass off and I know that I do provide an amazing service to companies and individuals who might not otherwise be able to afford the benefits of having a full time employee on the payroll.

But recently, my kid has started daycare and now he brings home a new bug every other week. I'm not fishing for sympathy here, I'm just pointing out the reality of juggling a business and being a Dad. People age, people evolve, that sort of thing is gonna happen anyway, no matter how good or how "on top of things" you are.

If I was a paid employee, then fair enough, I'd chin up and say nothing. But I am a freelancer. Someone you hire at a specific point in your business development to fullfill a specific task. I'm not MissCrystal, I do not see into the future. I try my best, I deliver quality, professional work, but at the end of the day, I am a business owner and a person. Things happen and I think it's really unfair if once in a blue moon, I message a client to explain that something unexpected happened and that I need a few more hours to complete a task. 

I'm not asking for preferential treatment here. But if I explain to a client why I need an extension and they accept it, I don't get why Fiverr would count that as a negative impact on my score. It's pure bollocks.

And don't get me started on other clients who need emergency help with their websites (I design websites). I manage 76 websites. Once in a while, a client comes to me with an emergency request and I HAVE to do it. Saying no isn't an option, that's the nature of the gig. What am I to do then? Let down an old, trusted Fiverr client to assuage a new one? I swear, Fiverr are putting us between a rock and a hard place and we cannot win, no matter what we do 😕

 

Rant Over/

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On 2/15/2024 at 9:10 PM, bbakersvoice said:

Do you value your freelancers as much as your clients?  I mean you can't have one without the other...correct?  Why do you put so much "teeth" into clients' review while the freelancer has a  simple 5 star tool with comment section?   Believe it or not some clients are not professional, friendly or/and honest.   Some want the world for nothing and no matter how fast you deliver, the quality of the work, the communication, etc. they are never satisfied.   This really comes to light with the "value for the money" rating.   Right from the start this is flawed as it is so subjective in nature.   The fact that they hired me should imply that they felt my work/service is worth paying the price.   

Your rating system creates a "power struggle" between the hardworking freelancer who make Fiverr successful and the client.   The client has all of the power over the freelancer due to the rating system and their ability to just extend/cancel projects at will.   It's obvious this is creating undue stress on many professional freelancers who are now wondering if they will see a significant drop in revenue when their 5 star reviews drop to 3.  Same quality, same service, etc. but a new tool that seems to want to drive ratings down.

It will be interesting in 3 months from now (or sooner) when potential clients come to Fiverr and search for a professional (in my case Pro Voiceovers) and see a talent pool with low ratings (i.e. 1 to 3 stars).  Are they really going to have confidence in our services?   Will they be more likely to hire us?  Time will tell.

I make a great income here on Fiverr and Fiverr benefits from this as well.   However, I definitely concerned this will change everything.

 

 

Completely agree with you on this point.

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5 hours ago, rapidtech1898v2 said:

It seems the complete platform is going nuts currently
Today my sucess score changed 3 times from 7 to 6 and now again to 7
Gigs are showing sometimes a "-" and sometimes a value between "-" and 8

And the best thing is i haven´t done anything today (no orders, no approvals, no reviews, nothing).

I'm guessing this is because our scores are calculated relative to everyone else our categories, so as other people get reviews and move up and down, your position relative to them changes.

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