reviews The Introduction of Reviews for Cancelled Orders – Some Thoughts After My Meeting With Fiverr

[themarineiguana]

Listen, smashradio, you're actually pretty cool, and I can see why they chose you as a liaison... but that doesn't change the fact that they seem to have told you a lot of motivations which we've already guessed...

It also still doesn't change the fact that we, as sellers, are also one of Fiverr's customers, and we're facing new policies that seem to tip the balance super off-kilter in favor of one class of their customers as opposed to another.

This is especially potentially deleterious in the case of scammers posing as buyers, who now have far too much leverage to cause harm.

[grayprogrammerz]

question: will this update applies on existing orders ?

or only on new orders taken after this update ?

[smashradio]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:32 PM, themarineiguana said:

Listen, smashradio, you're actually pretty cool, and I can see why they chose you as a liaison... but that doesn't change the fact that they seem to have told you a lot of motivations which we've already guessed...

It also still doesn't change the fact that we, as sellers, are also one of Fiverr's customers, and we're facing new policies that seem to tip the balance super off-kilter in favor of one class of their customers as opposed to another.

This is especially potentially deleterious in the case of scammers posing as buyers, who now have far too much leverage to cause harm.

Cool GIF! I love the Viking horns! 

When it comes to Fiverr sharing facts, it's not the same as the community guessing. I appreciate that Fiverr made a point to provide insights to a selection of community members.

Regarding your point about tipping the balance, I respectfully disagree. I truly believe that any effort from Fiverr to separate the wheat from the chaff is worth trying.

In my original post, I admitted my initial skepticism towards the inability to review the buyer. This remains a concern for many sellers, and though I understand why Fiverr chose this approach, I'm neither blind to the controversy surrounding it nor am I in total agreement. Fiverr is clearly aiming to prevent negative experiences for buyers, and further souring a bad experience by allowing a disgruntled seller to unleash their frustration on a buyer's profile doesn't align with that goal.

You are, of course, free to disagree with this goal or even the means used to achieve it. That's completely ok. I'm simply sharing my perspective on this, not instructing you on how to feel about it.

Having said all that, I don't believe I've been "taken". I was already in favor of this change long before I was invited to any sort of meeting.

I'm part of a group of sellers that often meets with the teams at Fiverr to talk about upcoming changes and provide early feedback.

Some of that has been me strongly encouraging Fiverr to communicate more empathetically with sellers, be more open about changes, and make positive changes that make our daily lives as sellers easier. I've never hesitated to tell them directly when I think they're making a mistake or treating sellers unfairly—as I did when addressing the Top Clients issue affecting Pro sellers.

Those efforts from other sellers and I have worked. You came here in 2019. I'm not sure how active you were in the community back then, but let's just say things were different in the old days. Fiverr would just change things without letting anyone know. Everyone was left guessing about everything, like the Buyer Satisfaction rate. So I really think that this communication back and forth has affected positive change over time. Fiverr is way more open and communicative as a corporation now, and these meetings prove it. 

So, to insinuate that some sort of sycophant or was "taken" is flat-out wrong. That being said, thanks for saying that I'm pretty cool! 

Edited July 22, 2023 by smashradio

[charlsmcfarlane]

On 7/22/2023 at 2:45 PM, smashradio said:

Cool GIF! I love the Viking horns! 

When it comes to Fiverr sharing facts, it's not the same as the community guessing. I appreciate that Fiverr made a point to provide insights to a selection of community members.

Regarding your point about tipping the balance, I respectfully disagree. I truly believe that any effort from Fiverr to separate the wheat from the chaff is worth trying.

In my original post, I admitted my initial skepticism towards the inability to review the buyer. This remains a concern for many sellers, and though I understand why Fiverr chose this approach, I'm neither blind to the controversy surrounding it nor am I in total agreement. Fiverr is clearly aiming to prevent negative experiences for buyers, and further souring a bad experience by allowing a disgruntled seller to unleash their frustration on a buyer's profile doesn't align with that goal.

You are, of course, free to disagree with this goal or even the means used to achieve it. That's completely ok. I'm simply sharing my perspective on this, not instructing you on how to feel about it.

Having said all that, I don't believe I've been "taken". I was already in favor of this change long before I was invited to any sort of meeting.

I'm part of a group of sellers that often meets with the teams at Fiverr to talk about upcoming changes and provide early feedback.

Some of that has been me strongly encouraging Fiverr to communicate more empathetically with sellers, be more open about changes, and make positive changes that make our daily lives as sellers easier. I've never hesitated to tell them directly when I think they're making a mistake or treating sellers unfairly—as I did when addressing the Top Clients issue affecting Pro sellers.

Those efforts from other sellers and I have worked. You came here in 2019. I'm not sure how active you were in the community back then, but let's just say things were different in the old days. Fiverr would just change things without letting anyone know. Everyone was left guessing about everything, like the Buyer Satisfaction rate. So I really think that this communication back and forth has affected positive change over time. Fiverr is way more open and communicative as a corporation now, and these meetings prove it. 

So, to insinuate that some sort of sycophant or was "taken" is flat-out wrong. That being said, thanks for saying that I'm pretty cool! 

@smashradio Not that you need the support, but I would add that I (unlike you) was extremely against this decision at first.

Having met with Fiverr, I felt heard and empathised with. They also made a concerted effort to address my specific concerns. I wouldn’t say I’ve been swayed 100% the other way, but I feel like they deserve the benefit of the doubt, which is a pretty big delta to my initial thoughts on this.

I guess we’ll have to just wait and see how it plays out.

[charlsmcfarlane]

On 7/22/2023 at 11:53 AM, grayprogrammerz said:

question: will this update applies on existing orders ?

or only on new orders taken after this update ?

Im not sure this has been announced but I’d imagine it would be for any new orders or perhaps any orders that were completed within a certain timeframe, like the last 14 days or something.

[donnovan86]

On 7/22/2023 at 1:53 PM, grayprogrammerz said:

or only on new orders taken after this update ?

Well one can only assume any cancellations you make AFTER they apply this system should be taken into account. So even if you have an existing order and you cancel after they make it public canceled orders can be reviewed, that buyer can leave you a review. By the way, this system is coming very soon too. 

1 hour ago, charlsmcfarlane said:

Im not sure this has been announced but I’d imagine it would be for any new orders or perhaps any orders that were completed within a certain timeframe, like the last 14 days or something.

I think that if you cancel any order after they announce this being live, the buyer will be able to leave a review. We will see. 

[smashradio]

7 hours ago, charlsmcfarlane said:

@smashradio Not that you need the support, but I would add that I (unlike you) was extremely against this decision at first.

Having met with Fiverr, I felt heard and empathised with. They also made a concerted effort to address my specific concerns. I wouldn’t say I’ve been swayed 100% the other way, but I feel like they deserve the benefit of the doubt, which is a pretty big delta to my initial thoughts on this.

I guess we’ll have to just wait and see how it plays out.

I always appreciate your support! Your experience goes to show that Fiverr has thought this through.

I went into this with a lot of questions and concerns from other sellers, more so than my own concerns. My goal was to shed some light on the situation on behalf of everyone else, so I gathered a lot of feedback in the days before the meeting.

The responses I got gave me the impression that they have carefully considered this from the perspectives of not just buyers, but also sellers.

There will always be sellers who worry that allowing buyers to express their views can somehow harm them. If the thought of feedback from your customers terrifies you, then, yes, it's a genuine concern. 

But honestly, freelancing isn't for everybody. If the thought of receiving honest feedback or dealing with demanding clients constantly fills you with dread, you might want to reconsider if you're in the right line of work. Being a freelancer is tough because you're the support representative, the salesperson, the talent, the complaints department and you have to deal with it all on your own. It comes with the territory. 

[charlsmcfarlane]

2 hours ago, smashradio said:

I always appreciate your support! Your experience goes to show that Fiverr has thought this through.

I went into this with a lot of questions and concerns from other sellers, more so than my own concerns. My goal was to shed some light on the situation on behalf of everyone else, so I gathered a lot of feedback in the days before the meeting.

The responses I got gave me the impression that they have carefully considered this from the perspectives of not just buyers, but also sellers.

There will always be sellers who worry that allowing buyers to express their views can somehow harm them. If the thought of feedback from your customers terrifies you, then, yes, it's a genuine concern. 

But honestly, freelancing isn't for everybody. If the thought of receiving honest feedback or dealing with demanding clients constantly fills you with dread, you might want to reconsider if you're in the right line of work. Being a freelancer is tough because you're the support representative, the salesperson, the talent, the complaints department and you have to deal with it all on your own. It comes with the territory. 

Agreed. I guess what was worrying me initially (and possibly what is worrying other sellers) is the following:

While I've been fortunate enough to work with a huge number of awesome buyers, there's the odd one that seems impossible to please. I think I was worrying a little too much about the 1% and forgetting about the other 99. That concern isn't completely gone, but I'm being a little more objective about it now, because when I really think about it, I don't actually think this change is going to affect me much.

I do appreciate feedback though. If anything, I wish a larger percentage of my orders received feedback. 61% of my orders have. It doesn't feel like a high number but I don't really have enough context to know if that's good or not.

[imagination7413]

I'm very grateful that Fiverr is becoming more open to user feedback before the changes are made.

In the past there were some beta-testing soft releases, where some users got an update but it wasn't rolled out for everyone. I don't recall ever reading about those users being able to provide feedback easily on said changes, though.

---

Just for fun, thought I'd link a recording I watched recently of a conference speaker on this topic. Yes, it's an hour long, but there are a LOT of great tips in here. (Not just for program/UX designers, but for Sellers too.) 

Quote

[victoriahogan]

"In my opinion rolling out an update to the review policy like this without also offering all sellers the ability to pre-screen orders and accept/decline them puts all sellers at a huge disadvantage and continues to feed into negative buyer experiences. The reality is many buyers will place an order without taking more than 15 seconds to review your gig, your FAQ etc."

 

I completely agree with this. It's such a disappointing update. Cancelling is often to the only recourse with an irresponsible buyer - now, not only do we lose our pay for the job, but we also get an algorithmic hit as well. I was thrilled when this was pulled back a last month because it felt like true care was taken to listen to the multitudes of sellers who felt this change was quite unfair - but not the disappointment returns.

[greggidneyvo]

Absolutely not.

By Fiverr adding the little phrase "Even if you have some unsatisfied customers, it will not significantly impact your ratings if most of your buyers are satisfied." tells me that Customer Support doesnt care about the sellers, and leaving them to 'deal with it'.

There are vindictive and hateful clients out there, who, if they dont get what they want, they will cancel the order and leave a BAD review just out of spite... even it there was a 'misunderstanding'

This is BAD all the way around.... Not having a sellers best interest in mind is why people are leaving the platform.  
Its sellers who are the ones creating the content for clients to pick through.

[Alex.M]

On 8/8/2023 at 10:09 PM, greggidneyvo said:

There are vindictive and hateful clients out there, who, if they dont get what they want, they will cancel the order and leave a BAD review just out of spite... even it there was a 'misunderstanding'

True and I have encountered a few, let's say around 50 but that is in a period of 10 years ... 

[greggidneyvo]

On 8/19/2023 at 9:20 AM, cre8iveartwork said:

True and I have encountered a few, let's say around 50 but that is in a period of 10 years ... 

You've been around for 10 years... it has a greater impact on those that have not

[texvox]

On 7/18/2023 at 12:59 PM, smashradio said:

I agree that this feature should be available to everyone with Seller Plus, including the lower tier. However, I don't think it should be free, and this ties in with me wanting the entire platform to be behind a paywall. While it is basic, access to benefits as a business owner is something you earn. While I agree with you that many buyers will click order without reviewing the gig properly first, this is mainly a problem with sellers at low price points, so it's a position the seller places himself in. I would agree with making it available for everyone if everyone first had to pay the price of entry. Will that ever happen? I doubt it. But they can certainly put more behind the paywall. This is like readers of my paywalled newspaper saying, "but this information is important, so it should be free for everyone to read!" Why? Why should I work for free just because I relay important information? Why should Fiverr give away the good stuff for free? Being on Fiverr is a privilege, not a right. So is the access to any feature they decide is worth charging for. 

Sorry for the late response! I don't often check the forum but I did want to respond to this.

I see what you're saying about putting more behind the paywall to make it more valuable - but realistically, being on Fiverr at all should qualify you for this most basic feature by virtue of the non-optional fees you pay. Fiverr takes 20% of every sale, which is considerably more than most platforms, at least for my industry (voice-over). Last year I made a net $127k on the platform, or $158,750 gross, which means that I paid over $30k in basic Fiverr fees to participate on the platform at all, not to mention the cost of Seller Plus, promoted clicks and whatever else I happened to pay for in '22.

Even if someone wasn't nearly as successful as I was last year and made just $5k net for the whole year that would be $6250 gross, or $1250 in fees. We agreed to this when we signed up and I am not upset about it, but I think it bears stating openly that the fees are pretty high for baseline participation. Personally, I feel, high enough for access to this feature without additional fees.

Were Fiverr free to use at a basic level, or at least required a lesser fee on every sale, I would be more inclined to agree that being on the platform is a privilege, but the built-in 20% fee for doing business should be adequate to grant every seller access to this most basic business function of being allowed to accept or decline a project. Sellers need Fiverr and Fiverr needs sellers, so I'd think that as a business Fiverr would want to equip sellers as best they could at a basic level. To me that differs from something like enhanced data analytics, the ability to send coupons, etc. which are optional to business success and which I agree are just fine behind an additional paywall.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Edited September 26, 2023 by texvox

[newsmike]

13 minutes ago, texvox said:

Anyway, my 2 cents.

On another note:

[texvox]

2 hours ago, newsmike said:

On another note:

Oh boy, good times haha.

[chrismv1]

Did you guys receive any e-mail or update from fiverr regarding the new review policy?

I personally did not and now got my first 1 star review. And since then my impressions are 6 times lower than usual.

As someone who has generated tens of thousands of euros in commissions for Fiverr, I find this absolutely disrespectful and ruthless.

[luisangel254]

I think it's a bad idea.
This is based on the erroneous premise that in a cancellation the seller is to blame, which is a total mistake.

[vickiespencer]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:19 AM, chrismv1 said:

Did you guys receive any e-mail or update from fiverr regarding the new review policy?

The new review policy has been a topic heavily discussed on the Forum last month.