Fiverr 4.0 - Some thoughts on the current state of things

[donnovan86]

37 minutes ago, danno1950 said:

It really makes me wonder if they still have control over the algorithm itself, or if the developers are doing things without adequate supervision or training on how it is supposed to function, which leads to substantial negative impact on sellers.

I will tell you about the negative impact within a month or two. I had another first time buyer cancel on me a few minutes ago, via customer support. A $5 order, saying that it's not about the money. Then why cancel.. Yeah, I think this is the last straw for me, I always tried to keep prices low to help people with a small budget, but between scammers and first time buyers that don't know what they want.. this is very disheartening and certainly demotivating. We end up penalized because a first time buyer is moody and doesn't know what they want, they can go behind your back and cancel, thus putting you in the doghouse for 2-3 months.

I understand it's important to have your first buyers happy (not Fiverr first timers only), but putting a lot of weight on that means a lot of sellers will have to deal with abuse and a lot of problems just to "please" those buyers. Which we all know it can end up with either a cancellation or no orders for a couple of months. 

I am pretty sure a lot of sellers will either rethink their prices (like me) or just stop working with new buyers completely. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by donnovan86

[danno1950]

51 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Twitter had only about 10,000 more coders than Fiverr and I remember this...

 

 

Wow, this just happened on Twitter. This is exactly what I've suspected for a while about Fiverr. If there is not a competent developer familiar with the underlying code of Fiverr, who is at the top supervising these algorithm adjustments, after a while, the whole thing just spins off course.

I remember when we heard last spring that Fiverr was working on developing many new features, all at the same time. One thing I know about programming is that you just change one thing at a time, because then you can gauge the impact of that change. If you're changing a lot of elements that interact with the algorithm, how can you tell which change did what?

Edited March 22, 2023 by danno1950
update

[danno1950]

20 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I am pretty sure a lot of sellers will either rethink their prices (like me) or just stop working with new buyers completely. 

Maybe that's why they differentiated on the Request To Order feature between "First Time Customers" and "All Customers" - to at least give us a way to feel out difficult new buyers. I sure use it that way.

[danno1950]

This talk about a possible algorithm adjustment makes for interesting timing when you think about the planned downtime on March 26th. It says "upping our site's efficiency," but I'd be curious to know what that efficiency increase actually consists of.

[williambryan392]

My most popular gig Business Consultancy typically gets 1-3 orders, sometimes more, a day. Yet I hadn't received an order for the last 5 days until last night when I got a Fiverr choice order. Downturns happen, I get it, but I find it strange because if I'm getting Fiverr choice for it then surely the BSS for it is good.

[donnovan86]

4 hours ago, danno1950 said:

but I'd be curious to know what that efficiency increase actually consists of.

I wouldn't read that much into that. They can make algorithm updates without shutting the entire site down. I think it mostly has to do with regular maintenance, server optimization, etc. They do this every couple of month. But who knows, you might be right and they might be cooking something delicious.

[frank_d]

7 hours ago, danno1950 said:

but I'd be curious to know what that efficiency increase actually consists of.

they are usually updating the backend to support new stuff, that's when they absolutely must shut things down.

[devwebdev]

It is interesting to consider the big picture that Fiverr is looking to implement here. The majority of new features as already mentioned appear to be about strengthening the relationship between buyers and sellers (gig videos, milestones that can include zoom meetings, display name, etc.). I can also see them taking further steps towards making this connection instant. Perhaps a stronger emphasis in the algorithm to recommending currently online sellers, increasing the probability of a near instant reply and thus, the start of a transaction. 

Also looking at current societal trends we can see that there is a large emphasis at the current time for 'shopping local'. This is an unusual concept here considering the power of the internet and this platform allows you to access services from people worldwide, but buyers do already have filters to refine their search to both local and online sellers. I think it is possible that both of these properties could have increased emphasis on the algorithm going forward. 

With regards to Buyer Satisfaction Rate (BSR), I do wonder how they balance this out in terms of financial gain/loss. A well respected 5 star seller who on average gets 2 orders a day, will be providing a good amount of revenue to Fiverr through their sales. So if their BSR drops resulting in them not receiving orders for a few days, surely this has to be balanced out with whatever data they hold on the probability of new buyers becoming repeat buyers?

[danno1950]

6 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

They can make algorithm updates without shutting the entire site down.

 

3 hours ago, frank_d said:

they are usually updating the backend to support new stuff, that's when they absolutely must shut things down.

Thanks for the clarification, guys!

[donnovan86]

12 minutes ago, devwebdev said:

Perhaps a stronger emphasis in the algorithm to recommending currently online sellers, increasing the probability of a near instant reply and thus, the start of a transaction. 

There's already an option to sort based on best selling, online, etc. Plus Fiverr already knows a lot of people fake they are online with those automatic refresher extensions, so I am sure that won't be happening. But as always, never say never lol.

[bigdesigns117]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:50 PM, frank_d said:

Hey gang!

It's that time of year again when I stuff my face with cake and write down my personal thoughts on what's happening on Fiverr.

(me right before I started writing the post)

Before I get this show on the road, a much needed disclaimer:

Anything I share on this article, represents my own personal view. Any findings about how the platform works are my own, and I hold no insider/privileged information. 

I am not a Fiverr official, nor am I representing Fiverr in any capacity.

I am just a seller, like you. I just like to find out how things work and what makes a seller successful on the platform.

I do have a proven track record, but take everything I say with a grain of salt.

This topic is just to fire up a discussion amongst sellers and exchange opinions.

This is NOT an attempt to game the system or find any shortcuts.

Hint: There aren't any.

 

With all that out of the way, let's jump right in.

 

Fiverr 4.0: A necessary evolution

OK so this article is a continuation of my Fiverr 3.1 thesis.

Which in turn is a sequel of my original post called Fiverr 3.0.

It seems to me that Fiverr changed how things work back then, so it was a much more apparent shift, felt throughout the marketplace. So this new article will cover how Fiverr implemented a few more things and completed the shift started back then.

To the surprise of absolutely no-one, I will once again say that Fiverr is about matchmaking. 

If you need more proof, check out the new briefs feature, your new dashboard metrics and your shiny new profiles. (especially on Fiverr Business)

Why do I think it's a necessary evolution? Well because it makes A LOT of sense when you take into account Fiverr's KPIs.

So what is Fiverr all about? 

Well, user retention is important, so keeping buyers in the ecosystem. 

And how do you do that?

By keeping people happy.

 

I can't get no.... SATISFACTION!

Yes, this is something that will come up quite a bit in this article.

The Buyer Satisfaction Rate. So we'll call it BSR from here on out.

This metric was kept under wraps for about 2-3 years, when Fiverr started talking about it. Either through webinars or via our trusted Success Managers.

It's a secret formula that Fiverr uses to calculate how happy buyers are after an order is completed and therefore, how sellers perform in that regard. 

(Fiverr's secret BSR formula, apparently)

So Fiverr now takes into account the actual facilitation of the service and how good the experience was, and not just the end product. This was the biggest shift in how sellers perceived their performance on the platform, because Fiverr apparently increased the weight of this variable when calculating who is a good performer and who is a good match for buyers.

And since none of us knows how it works, and for good reason, things were weird for us sellers.

The forum was flooded with people asking why they get 0 sales after a streak of good months, while their dashboard had perfect metrics and their public reviews were close to perfect.

But the hidden BSR outweighs public reviews. By a lot.

 

The "get out of jail" card

So if the BSR is hidden, how can we learn from it, or at the very least avoid the search results limbo, when our gigs are underperforming?

Well this is complicated.

First of all: it's fairly simple to avoid any issues altogether.

Offer a great and seamless customer experience. The secret is to take lead and manage client expectations early on.

Offer solutions instead of questions when issues arise, and finally make sure you are acting in a professional yet friendly manner.

However, not everything is peachy. Things happen and even the most seasoned freelancer gets the cold shoulder from the algorithm that serves search results.

But it's now easier to bounce back if something happens to your account, all you have to do is wait it out, whilst trying to offer an amazing service to any orders you may get.

You see, Fiverr has a complicated but sensible way of calculating things.

So our Dashboard metrics get updated every 60 days. That's been well-known. 

But BSR seems to follow a different pattern. It is calculated every 90 AND every 30 days.

So while things seem to move abruptly from "I get new orders daily/weekly" to "I hear crickets and feel worthless", the true secret is time. You need to wait it out, there's nothing else you can do about it.

Use the downtime to edit gigs, freshen up that portfolio of yours and make sure that anyone who messages you when things are quiet, get 110% from you in terms of responsiveness and help they may need.

You see, your BSR score, much like any other metric, averages out. Which means that while a dip in your score may hurt your profile's standing, it averages out every time the clock resets. And on any given day, depending on when was the last time you got a bad private review, your overall score changes.

So it is fairly simple: ride it out, and improve performance. 

But wait, why are there two cycles? 

Well my working theory is that there are two separate BSR metrics. One is for new buyers and one is for existing buyers.

There is some kind of threshold where Fiverr stops treating buyers as new accounts, and right before that cut off, their private exit surveys may weigh considerably more than those of existing accounts.

You can see it in Fiverr's indicators. (remember how I am always talking about indicators and no-one listens?)

Fiverr is not saying things out in the open, but it does try to clue us in.

You get a special message when a buyer purchases your gig and it's their first time buying anything on the platform.

You also get the buyer insights feature, if you are a member of Seller Plus, so you can see if they are new members of the platform or not.

And lately, you get an email when your BSR for new buyers, drops. So at least there's no more guessing when things get a little too quiet for us sellers.

 So First Time Buyers are important to Fiverr. Because that first experience is what will make them stay on Fiverr and maybe even start spending more. Makes sense right?

However, that means that it is upon us sellers to educate buyers on most things Fiverr. It is required from us that we not only guide them through our process, but also through Fiverr's UI/UX and myriad of buttons.

Which leads me to a tasty new theory:

What if the new algorithm, the one who does all this merry matchmaking, is specifically designed to favor senior seller accounts with a proven track record, with First Time Buyers.

Makes sense doesn't it?

Now I am not saying it cancels out every other aspect of the matchmaking process, like relevancy, performance etc.

But what if that's the case? It definitely makes sense if Fiverr is trying to make people go from total noobs to loyal customers from a single order.

So whenever I see a new buyer talking to me, or placing an order with me, I consider this a great opportunity to offer the best possible experience to them. 

OK so what gets you a spot in search results?

That's hard to say. I don't think anyone has an answer.

However I know a few factors that come into play:

Relevance is key. You need to offer something relevant to what buyers are looking for, for sure.

Performance is heavily favored. Key metrics and BSR maintenance are imperative.

But then we have more complicated attributes, like Buyer Behavior models, and Average Selling Price.

Buyer behaviors are -and this is me guessing on a cool Monday night- equally important when the platform is trying to get a successful match going on. 

Some attributes are: account age, average spend, number and frequency of orders, type of account (business, select, buyer/seller).

I also think that Fiverr uses buyer behavior to weed out and punish sellers who use like farms or "friends and family" to buy their gigs. So sellers who do that, you have been warned.

If you also take into account Promoted Gigs and some -almost- definite A.I. involvement for the platform to figure out relevancy, then you can see it gets overtly complicated.

I am not going to pretend I know everything, as I am getting older I realize I do not. 

That's why I will end this segment here, and not share any of my crazier theories on what makes Fiverr tick. 🙂

Things to come...

If we take my assumption that Fiverr is now fighting for customer retention to be true, then I could definitely see more features geared towards personal connection and relationships.

For instance we have different profiles on Fiverr Business, focused on us vs our gigs.

We just now got to write our real names even on the Regular Fiverr Profiles.

We now have the ability to record a video of us, so that buyers can watch and get a sense of who we are.

So I can definitely see more tools like that coming along, where sellers can create more meaningful interactions with buyers and even create a following of loyal customers.

OK that's all I had for now. I need to attend my Bday dinner and have some more cake, not necessarily in that order.

This year's post was made shorter and maybe seemingly not as juicy as past years.

But this was by design. I don't want to be mistaken for someone who is in the inside track.

I want people to understand that I am trying to figure this out, just like everyone else, and I am merely looking to recognize indicators and patterns on the platform that will help sellers succeed.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Off to have some cake.

I'd love to answer any questions or hear your thoughts about what I shared! 

 

 

The only thing I don't like is that sellers are forced to have their faces shown in the intro videos, or you're video will be rejected. I know I'm not alone in wanting to provide quality service and keep my anonymity as well.

I'm hoping Fiverr will reconsider its stance on this.

[leannelrivers]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:01 PM, danno1950 said:

Interesting that you revisited Upwork as well.

Who just made official their 10% across the board fee. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by leannelrivers

[danno1950]

37 minutes ago, leannelrivers said:

Who just made official their 10% across the board fee. 

Interesting. The fee sounds appealing, but I'm still not at all a fan of their business model. Their bidding process can lead to a lot of time spent with little return. 

[emilychrisvo]

Wonderful, insightful post Frank. Thank you for taking the time to do this for us! And thank you for steering me to this Forum in the first place! Much appreciated. 

Emily

[katakatica]

So...  I've noticed something very interesting. Currently, I have a lot of work (basically at full capacity though that's also due to my arm getting hurt and me having to slow down) but I did have 2 months (Dec-Jan) that were only just around average because I have some return clients. Would have been all but empty. 

Now, my SM did say around that time that my satisfaction score dipped down a bit, so I think that's mostly it (had some odd interactions / bad fits so it makes sense) but I bounced back quicker than expected (my November was really good though that's when I'm assuming the dip happened, but counting with 90 days I'd think my Feb would be bad as well?) 

Fast-forward to now though, I havs 7 orders in queue instead of the what used to be the normal 3-4 (I take on less work but bigger projects). Out of those, two are new orders that I got today from new clients and one I got maybe 2 days ago? Another one a few days back, all new clients (not to Fiverr but to me).

But...

My impressions are less than half of what they were max. 10 days ago. Clicks around only a little less though (I don't have a lot of them but working on raising that a bit.) but what I'm trying to say that it might be a change in something in the way search works again ? (or a bug with the numbers). It just feels a bit weird to have the least impressions I've had in months but the most orders / inquires. I raised my prices but while that's when the dip in impressions seems to have started, it didn't affect sales at all which usually would be the case (at least when my impressions are halved...) 

What stands against this though (or for it maybe? Depends how you look at it.) is that I do have less spam than I would have normally. Not by much but it's noticeable. 

Maybe they are tweaking stuff? 

(or maybe it really is everyone just having a slump at the same time? It could be anything I guess.) 

Love this post so much though, I never even thought about how new buyers could be THAT important but it definitely sounds like a possibility. A bit of a scary one though since many of them don't know the site and could mess stuff up without wanting to (for us and themselves). 

[leannelrivers]

10 hours ago, danno1950 said:

I'm still not at all a fan of their business model. Their bidding process can lead to a lot of time spent with little return. 

Yes, it's a shame. I used to do pretty well on there way back, but the bidding is a pain, and unless you're quick to the job post, you're probably somewhere on the bottom of a list of 50-something applicants. And it's swamped with vague job descriptions that are not worth the paid bid. But I'm using this time to improve my profiles elsewhere and start another round of agent hunting. If there's one benefit of work drying up here, it's that my comfort zone expands pretty quickly. 

[danno1950]

6 hours ago, leannelrivers said:

But I'm using this time to improve my profiles elsewhere and start another round of agent hunting. If there's one benefit of work drying up here, it's that my comfort zone expands pretty quickly. 

Yes, it's time to beef up and search out alternatives. I'm not confident that Fiverr is going to be motivated enough to figure out what's going on with their platform that is negatively impacting so many sellers.

[catwriter]

2 hours ago, danno1950 said:

I'm not confident that Fiverr is going to be motivated enough to figure out what's going on with their platform that is negatively impacting so many sellers.

If their profits drop, they will be.

[danno1950]

46 minutes ago, catwriter said:

If their profits drop, they will be.

I completely agree - that will be what motivates Fiverr to change - when they start losing money. 

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, danno1950 said:

when they start losing money. 

And that happens when buyers stop coming in. There will always be seller willing to make money. But if Fiverr fails to impress buyers with their talent, that will bleed money in the long run. However, I don't see why a seller would leave the platform, staying on Fiverr doesn't cost you a dime and people would come to you. Plus, you only pay any fees if you complete the project.. That's why I dislike bid-focused platforms, you can spend quite a lot of money on bids and not earn any money in return. 

[danno1950]

18 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

However, I don't see why a seller would leave the platform, staying on Fiverr doesn't cost you a dime and people would come to you.

Absolutely, Alex. I'll keep my profile, but I won't just be waiting around for Fiverr to figure things out. That could take a while. It's in my best interest to not rely on Fiverr as a consistent revenue stream, with the way things have been going. That it unfortunate, because I'm a big fan of the way their business model operates. I just think they're too fond of tinkering with it, without solid oversight.

Edited March 24, 2023 by danno1950

[frank_d]

I’ll ignore anyone else who will PM me, as I don’t have the time to focus on individual cases, BUT:

Anyone of the forum regulars who had great traction and steady leads and are now faced with a slump, PM me with a brief description of when the slump started and/or your unique feel of the situation.

I may be able to offer some insights.

 

[danno1950]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:50 PM, katakatica said:

My impressions are less than half of what they were max. 10 days ago. Clicks around only a little less though (I don't have a lot of them but working on raising that a bit.) but what I'm trying to say that it might be a change in something in the way search works again ?

That is definitely a strange trend, but I don't know what it means. Yes, does feel like what we've been talking about, that there might be a change in something search related. 

[meldawn9]

I've had three order cancellations in the past month after completion. No doubt from the same buyer (different user ID), just to get free articles from me. Perhaps one day Fiverr will offer some protection for us. I did inform all three buyers that these articles were going onto my own blog, hence they could not use them in any form without being downgraded by Google SEO if they did. I think I have scared them, as I have not seen my articles posted anywhere online. Let's hope they do not order from me again. (I have blocked their 3 accounts but that doesn't stop them from creating a new one.)

[terrygrantvo]

The volatility with impressions has been way more pronounced these last couple of months than I can ever recall seeing before. I'll have a three day stretch where it shoots up steadily, and then a four or five day stretch where it just plummets. It's like someone just flipped a switch.

It makes it all the more frustrating to see Fiverr continually highlight sellers who work for a tenth of what they're worth and hence have a ton of small orders. Seeing the same four guys at the top of every search, working for 10 bucks, is driving me up a wall. 🙂