Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[lievevandyck]

Do you think it is an option to report every buyer that will never place an order? For example, I am offering Dutch - English translations and this week I got contacted by a few people who will never place an order:

1) People who ask me to give them work.... which I refuse to do because I can handle all my work

2) People that send me files in Serbian, Spanish,.... but I don't speak those languages....

I understood that converting conversations to orders is a key factor for your success score so that is why I am thinking how to handle that better.

[emmaki]

About the EU, they did respond to me after a week. It was a pretty useless response so I didn't post it, but that's what you get if you use the contact form of a large multinational organization that has very few democratic processes built in to it (I'm talking about the EU! But it could also be Fiverr!) 

All large organizations are using AI/templates to respond to customers these days, just like for years they have used phone queues with terrible music to drain away your vital life forces. Fiverr is pretty unexceptional in this regard. I also don't think there's much point contacting CS about any of this as they're overrun and obviously don't have answers, so 99.99999% of interactions with them are going to be unsatisfactory as compared to the 99% unsatisfactory rate before the apocalypse hit 🙂  

As a devil's advocate on the Success Failure Score, isn't it better that everyone experiences nightmare drops now during the transition period when everyone gets hurt by whatever Fiverr breaks? If they don't fix it by the March 14 that's another story, but the next couple of weeks are probably going to be traumatic for a lot of sellers as Fiverr does things to the AI gubbins.

Anyway, I'll try writing to the EU again when their stupid office is open and I don't get RoboResponder: 

Note: The EU is very slow at things and overall rubbish apart from the freedom of movement between member states. I'm so thankful that Brexit happened and now it's illegal to take ham sandwiches to/from Europe. Because meat is m*rder at customs now. Was Brexit actually a vegan conspiracy? We may never know. 

 

 

[catwriter]

9 minutes ago, lievevandyck said:

People that send me files in Serbian

According to your profile, you live in Croatia, so people assume that you speak Croatian, which would also mean that you have no trouble understanding Serbian.

[lievevandyck]

Just now, catwriter said:

According to your profile, you live in Croatia, so people assume that you speak Croatian, which would also mean that you have no trouble understanding Serbian.

Excuse me. Croatian and cyrillic serbian is a world apart! And I can live wherever I want in the world, my gig offers Dutch to English or English to Dutch, if I would speak another language fluently I would offer that too, so I completely disagree with you

[emmaki]

IDK, I'm noticing a serious increase in inquiries in French, German, Italian, and Spanish. 

Nowhere on my profile says I speak anything but English. And as a writer, there's really not much I can do for them. Sometimes they argue back.

It's a bit tiresome.... 

[catwriter]

Just now, lievevandyck said:

Croatian and cyrillic serbian is a world apart!

There's Serbian Latin, too. Many Serbians don't use the Cyrillic alphabet. And spoken Croatian and spoken Serbian are so similar that no translation is needed (written Croatian and written Serbian are just as similar if one uses the Latin alphabet, and there are online conversion tools that turn Cyrillic into Latin).

1 minute ago, lievevandyck said:

And I can live wherever I want in the world

Sure you can, I'm just mentioning why someone would think that you understood Serbian. Croatians understand Serbians, Serbians understand Croatians, the same goes for Bosnia and Montenegro...

7 minutes ago, emmaki said:

IDK, I'm noticing a serious increase in inquiries in French, German, Italian, and Spanish. 

Nowhere on my profile says I speak anything but English. And as a writer, there's really not much I can do for them. Sometimes they argue back.

I keep noticing people who use the site in their own language, and I'm not sure if they even realize that there's automated translation going on, and that a lot of people don't actually speak their language.

[lievevandyck]

2 minutes ago, catwriter said:

There's Serbian Latin, too. Many Serbians don't use the Cyrillic alphabet. And spoken Croatian and spoken Serbian are so similar that no translation is needed (written Croatian and written Serbian are just as similar if one uses the Latin alphabet, and there are online conversion tools that turn Cyrillic into Latin).

 

But the fact that I cannot convert that conversation to an order should never affect my success score. No matter on online tools or not. I cannot understand 1 letter in Cyrillic so I don't want to fool buyers, I rather tell them upfront that I cannot do that, I don't trust online tools to that extent. But my point is, that conversations like that should not affect your success score. 

Edited February 25 by lievevandyck

[emmaki]

1 minute ago, catwriter said:

I keep noticing people who use the site in their own language, and I'm not sure if they even realize that there's automated translation going on, and that a lot of people don't actually speak their language.

That's what I think the issue is too. It might be OK for verticals where writing isn't the central focus (e.g. logo design) and the translation tool is an okay way to communicate, but I don't write well enough to create an article in any other language except English. 

I also can't look at the foreign language sites (I get redirected to English) to see how my gigs look in other languages. Probably translated, but I feel like Fiverr should, if it hasn't already, add a thing in near the top that says "this seller only writes in XYZ". 

It wouldn't be hard to implement - you have to check a box about the languages you write in when you set up the writing gig. OTOH maybe people just don't read anything these days. 

[catwriter]

3 minutes ago, lievevandyck said:

I cannot understand 1 letter in Cyrillic

Many older Croatians read and write in Cyrillic, too, since Croatia and Serbia used to be parts of the same country.

4 minutes ago, lievevandyck said:

But the fact that I cannot convert that conversation to an order should never affect my success score.

I agree.

Success score is currently a mess, a lot of people see it dropping seemingly for no reason. It looks like they're still working on it, and giving sellers heart attacks and anxiety attacks in the meantime.

[emmaki]

2 minutes ago, lievevandyck said:

But the fact that I cannot convert that conversation to an order should never affect my success score

I reject most people in my inbox and my success score is 10. So I don't think that this is related to the calculations. Mind you, not all conversations get a little pop-up about using coupons, but I have converted all those (without coupons). 

I'd say that might be a trigger, but not all sellers have the coupons and they're not very popular from what I can see. They also only seem to popup when the buyer is practically begging you to let them order, so they must be tracking that sort of language. 

(I usually reject buyers within 1-2 messages)

[catwriter]

3 minutes ago, emmaki said:

OTOH maybe people just don't read anything these days. 

It certainly feels like it.

I mention in the gig description that I need xy, and the buyer who contacts me says "Oh, I bet you do xy, too!" No, I don't, that's what I need you to send me.

[emmaki]

3 minutes ago, catwriter said:

I mention in the gig description that I need xy, and the buyer who contacts me says "Oh, I bet you do xy, too!" No, I don't, that's what I need you to send me.

My press release gig has something about not distributing at the very top (I think, haven't looked for a while). Guess what the main question is about that gig in my inbox? 

Luckily, I have a distribution costs PDF from Cision that quotes terrifying prices in the tens of thousands of dollars to share with them and a polite note that I don't offer distribution since they probably don't want to pay at least 20% extra for me to submit for them. That PDF is also about 5 years old now, so I just gravely tell them that these prices are outdated... 

I used to offer distribution, but everyone wanted Cision results on a $40 budget. It just doesn't work like that, especially when your story has zero value as a newsworthy one. So I just cut that risk out and turned it into a favor. I have been thanked with 0 sales 🙂 

[catwriter]

10 minutes ago, emmaki said:

I used to offer distribution, but everyone wanted Cision results on a $40 budget. It just doesn't work like that, especially when your story has zero value as a newsworthy one.

That reminds me of memoir writers who think that their story about their teenage crush that ended abruptly is the next Romeo and Juliet. Fortunately, it isn't, since nobody died, but it's not exactly an interesting story, either.

[eclixo]

On 2/22/2024 at 10:21 PM, dianeofmusgrave said:

Revisions and "extended delivery" does not impact your success DIRECTLY but if it could have been avoided with better communication for example then it could affect it overall.

I believe no one wants a late delivery. I mostly encounter late delivery issues because buyers don't reply. Who will decide whose fault it is?

 

On 2/22/2024 at 10:21 PM, dianeofmusgrave said:

Remember our score is compared to other people in that category so even with no orders the metrics MIGHT change.

If official, then it's like the Wild West. The top-rated seller will receive all orders, making them the top dog and giving them the power to determine others' scores.

 

[eclixo]

Hi, @Kesha

Can you explain how someone success score keep decreasing even after completing orders?

I heared, fiverr is comparing success score with others people and other people google performance and affect my success score.

How is this even fair? 

[emmaki]

 

6 minutes ago, eclixo said:

If official, then it's like the Wild West. The top-rated seller will receive all orders, making them the top dog and giving them the power to determine others' scores.

It's about as official as Fiverr can make it. Since August 2023, they've been consistent on a few things:

• Focusing on high value / upmarket clients
• Heavier promotion of Pro marketplaces (and by extension, TRS sellers in Pro marketplaces)
• Manual (human) intervention for promotion / demotion to TRS 
• A crazy new punishing review system 

Sellers will really need to decide if they want to play Fiverr's games in the end. While I still have my doubts about the abilities of some Pro sellers (these have existed since day 1), sellers aren't going to stay at the top if they don't perform consistently over short- and long-term timeframes.

Another point: Fiverr buyers are decreasing but spending more per order. Sure, you can still make money at the bottom end of the market, but the buyer group is dwindling, often very difficult, and the competition is higher. All this, for a handful of dollars and the vain hope that a good review might be passed down... 

I wouldn't characterize it as the Wild West, more a clear business strategy that is succeeding from the POV of the c-exec. Down in the trenches is another story, especially with the current mess and what appears to be a broken Success Score that is currently being tweaked.

One final point: there are far more low-level sellers than high-level sellers, and many categories are filled to the rafters with trash gigs from sellers who can't. Low priced gigs sell more than high-priced gigs. Relatively speaking, it's not the TRS/Pros who are going to swing scoring needles anytime soon. There are also plenty of Pros who make less money than level 1/2, simply due to sales volume but for whatever reason Fiverr doesn't consider them TRS (or even Pro) material. 

I wouldn't look to the TRS etc. as ruling the marketplace. A part of Fiverr's current strategy is to throw out the trash using AI. Every time Fiverr makes its systems worse and more punishing for all of its sellers, it's to combat the trash-tier sellers.

At least it has taken to approving new seller accounts now. That alone will probably lift the overall marketplace quality as it deals with the bad sellers who haven't been dealt with yet.

[eclixo]

4 minutes ago, emmaki said:

A part of Fiverr's current strategy is to throw out the trash using AI. Every time Fiverr makes its systems worse and more punishing for all of its sellers, it's to combat the trash-tier sellers.

Will this kind of system new seller who got talent never able to achieve something on this paltform and monopoly will be created by few handfull buyers.

[allstral]

I'm not sure if this helps or not, and it may be a little off-topic. I'm concerned about the recent location inconsistencies among sellers. I hope this does not happen to anyone else, as I also work from the office and home every day. I'm just curious how these things happen after all this time. why now?

This was my ticket 4 years ago, and I don't know if it's still relevant or not in the current system

[dianeofmusgrave]

9 hours ago, mikucchi said:

Yes. You're correct. In my issue, I didn't have any canceled order since the beginning (I've been careful and aware about this matter). I just received the answer from CS :

"It is important for me to mention that we are aware of the issue of cancelations rectified by Customer Support affecting success scores. We recognize this oversight and are actively working to resolve it before the transition period concludes on March 14. We will keep you informed of any updates."

It looks like the new system still affecting the order which cancelled by CS to the success score 😔

Yes I have one gig being affected by the customer support cancellations BUT for the second gig both cancellations were done before the requirements were placed and within minutes of the order being placed. They were not canceled through customer service. They didn't have to be because the policy is that orders canceled before requirements are placed don't affect you, or at least they didn't. 

I have been told that my gigs have been manually checked and that my scores are correct and then told they will escalate and then I had this from a shift manager -

 

Quote

Hi 
 
I understand that you would like more detailed feedback and I’ll do my best to do that. However, please know that we appreciate your feedback and I will be forwarding everything to our product managers.
 
Kindly note that there are no orders that are affecting your Order Completion Rate.
 
Regarding the Order Cancellations key area, it takes into account various factors related to order cancellations before deciding on bad cancellations. One of the factors is the order process. 
 
Visit the Forum post regarding the new level system questions and feedback to read more.
 
I hope this answers your question. If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach out to me.

 

It did not in fact answer my question which was "has your policy changed on cancellations before requirements?" are placed. An answer would have been either "yes" or "no". The irony that I have made many posts on the forum's level system feedback thread started by Kesha that he sent a link to was not lost on me. I do not doubt that I have spent more time reading it than he has. I am still insisting on confirmation on this. I am happy to message them until I get the "transparency" they promise.

[gellerthyde]

1 hour ago, emmaki said:

About the EU, they did respond to me after a week. It was a pretty useless response so I didn't post it, but that's what you get if you use the contact form of a large multinational organization that has very few democratic processes built in to it (I'm talking about the EU! But it could also be Fiverr!) 

All large organizations are using AI/templates to respond to customers these days, just like for years they have used phone queues with terrible music to drain away your vital life forces. Fiverr is pretty unexceptional in this regard. I also don't think there's much point contacting CS about any of this as they're overrun and obviously don't have answers, so 99.99999% of interactions with them are going to be unsatisfactory as compared to the 99% unsatisfactory rate before the apocalypse hit 🙂  

As a devil's advocate on the Success Failure Score, isn't it better that everyone experiences nightmare drops now during the transition period when everyone gets hurt by whatever Fiverr breaks? If they don't fix it by the March 14 that's another story, but the next couple of weeks are probably going to be traumatic for a lot of sellers as Fiverr does things to the AI gubbins.

Anyway, I'll try writing to the EU again when their stupid office is open and I don't get RoboResponder: 

Note: The EU is very slow at things and overall rubbish apart from the freedom of movement between member states. I'm so thankful that Brexit happened and now it's illegal to take ham sandwiches to/from Europe. Because meat is m*rder at customs now. Was Brexit actually a vegan conspiracy? We may never know. 

 

 

I want to thank you very much in behalf of all sellers in this platform. Thanks for taking action. I would do the same if i was a citizen of EU. I’m calling every sellers who lives in EU to do the same. We dont deserve this much anxiety and stress.
 

I really appreciate Fiverr to give us this platform to provide our services and earn but the updates in the last 2 years are just nonsense. No human being can’t handle that much stress, anxiety, inequality and injustice. They need to fix things on behalf sellers but they don’t look like they will. So they should be forced to do.

[emmaki]

24 minutes ago, eclixo said:

Will this kind of system new seller who got talent never able to achieve something on this paltform and monopoly will be created by few handfull buyers.

I joined in 2013. People were complaining about this in 2013. They were probably also complaining about it in 2010, when Fiverr started.

The complainers usually move on, but there are plenty of sellers who have enjoyed success on the platform. The one thing they all share in common is that they started as a new seller at the bottom. 

Your argument is based on a false premise. You have also forgotten that many sellers overestimate their actual talent and abilities. If you don't believe me, have a quick look at the marketplace.

[eclixo]

1 minute ago, emmaki said:

I joined in 2013. People were complaining about this in 2013. They were probably also complaining about it in 2010, when Fiverr started.

The complainers usually move on, but there are plenty of sellers who have enjoyed success on the platform. The one thing they all share in common is that they started as a new seller at the bottom. 

Your argument is based on a false premise. You have also forgotten that many sellers overestimate their actual talent and abilities. If you don't believe me, have a quick look at the marketplace.

In 2013, there was a buyer request feature where you could send 10 requests daily to buyers.

Things have changed since then. I haven't received any briefs in the last 6 months, despite being a second-level and top-rated eligible seller.

How will new sellers be able to get clients within Fiverr? Explain to me.

I got my first 50 orders from buyer requests. It was easier to get clients back then.

[visualstudios]

21 hours ago, visualstudios said:

Just wow. I'm absolutely tired of this platform. This is ridiculous, people do not understand the rating system. The boxes make absolutely no sense, they clearly wanted to say the opposite.  Everything went perfectly with this order. People assume very good is a good review, they don't get the emoji c**p.

4 stars on communication level can't be correct, for example, it goes against what the review itself says. "Communication was excellent". 4 stars on communication. How could I get 5, then? Do I have to be "better than excellent"?

 

 

Guess what? My second 4 star review since the new system... was also changed by the client to a 5 star review. And all the things that could improve were, after all, things that went well. This never happened before, in over 6  years I never had clients changing their review, now in less than a month I have two. The system is clearly not working well.

 

[Alex.M]

26 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

My second 4 star review since the new system... was also changed by the client to a 5 star review.

How? Did support help or do they have an option to edit reviews again ?! 

[emmaki]

17 minutes ago, eclixo said:

In 2013, there was a buyer request feature where you could send 10 requests daily to buyers.

Things have changed since then. I haven't received any briefs in the last 6 months, despite being a second-level and top-rated eligible seller.

How will new sellers be able to get clients within Fiverr? Explain to me.

I got my first 50 orders from buyer requests. It was easier to get clients back then.

You need to adapt. Fiverr's made it very clear that they're moving away from lower value buyers and sellers. The removal of Buyer Requests is definitely a part of that strategy. 

I never used Buyer Requests but I made sales. Does that mean my experience invalidates yours? No, but I'm not basing my whole argument around my own personal experience and dressing it up as concern for new sellers. I'm basing it around what Fiverr is actually doing and saying. 

Luckily, Fiverr has a handy list of gigs that don't have enough TRS-eligible sellers. If you have gigs in any of those categories and you're not being made TRS, that should tell you there's a problem with your overall profile. If you're not in any of those categories, then try making a gig for one of them (and be good at it, obviously).

New sellers can follow that exact same strategy - but it will only work if they actually have the skills to back the gig. However, a lot of new sellers read some "How I made $3,654 on Fiverr with this easy XYZ" articles and then complain when they don't get the same results or worse, get rejected from being a Fiverr seller at the first step. 

Consider one thing: Fiverr's making it harder for new sellers to join, actively disabling accounts that violate TOS, and probably losing a few sellers over this mess. You might not believe it, but for a talented new seller who takes the time to get everything right on their gigs and learn, it may be easier than ever to attract buyers and sell to them. This is especially true if they focus on categories that Fiverr is telling you are not served well. 

Don't forget the new seller algorithm boost, either. Just because the new review system is a diabolical shambles, it doesn't mean that the framework around it is, too. 

Unfortunately, more new sellers are likely to listen to you than they are to me. Never mind!