New update: Buyers will soon be able to quallifying canceled orders...but sellers won't?

[nikoleta_dev]

Quote

Note: On a review of a canceled order, there is no option for the seller to rate the buyer. 

So, I read the new update related to the new option for adding feedback to cancelled orders, but my main concern is why is it only one-sided towards the buyer. Isn't our opinion in such situations also valid? Some cancelled orders are due to miscommunication or business mismatch, and I believe both sides should have the right to leave an opinion about why the collaboration/order was cancelled. What do you all think?

Here is a link to the full update.

[newsmike]

This should add some clarity as buyers can indicate whether they simply ordered by mistake or did not need the service, which should not come with a penalty, or if the cancellation was due to poor service, quality or lack of professionalism. The latter would qualify for a punitive strike against the seller.

There is no reason to ask the seller, because as we see here in the forum, every single cancellation, from the seller's point of view is unjust and "for no reason." Why waste time processing the inevitable junk data?  

[omnilegentangel]

From what I'm understanding,  once a Buyer leaves a review, a Seller WOULD be able to respond to the review. A Seller is just not able to INITIATE a review when it comes to a cancellation. I hope I am clear on this point. If not, moderators please help me to understand!! Thx!

[Alex.M]

''Note: On a review of a canceled order, there is no option for the seller to rate the buyer.'' 

Sounds promising 

''Following this change, we will decrease the rating score threshold for all levels from 4.7 to 4.2 in order to help sellers maintain their rating levels''  - So Fiverr is expecting this new feature to be a disaster? 

What happens if  the buyer cancels an order for whatever reason they come up with and they leave a 5-star review? Wouldn't that be strange as well? Isn't that a way of manipulating the system? '' If you cancel the order I will still leave you a 5-star review ''  I got messages like that promising to leave a 5 star review if I cancel the order in the past as well when this new ' feature' didn't even exist 

[purplehate]

I think customer feedback on canceled orders is a bad idea. As a designer at Fiverr, I feel very insecure. For example, I had a client who placed an order with certain requirements and references, when I made several concepts for him in accordance with his requirements, he did not like the concepts and he began to insult my work and me. Of course, the way out of this situation is to cancel the order, no one should endure insults, and now let's think about what kind of feedback such buyers will leave. As a result, the designer loses his time, nerves, money, and in the new realities he also receives a bad review. Does this sound like something fair? I do not think so. I think everyone understands that canceling an order for a designer is an extreme measure, it means that you have no chance to negotiate with clients, the client can demand from you what you don’t do or be aggressive. And you're already a loser in this situation, and Fiverr's new policy makes things worse for those who work here.

[Alex.M]

This opens new paths for abusive buyers , so what If I only offer 1 revision / order or no revision as well... Who is going to say no to revisions when the buyer can cancel the order, can get his money back, can take the delivered files for free and still leave a 1 star review 

[newsmike]

6 minutes ago, purplehate said:

As a result, the designer loses his time, nerves, money, and in the new realities he also receives a bad review. Does this sound like something fair?

You are only looking at one side. Would the buyer's perspective be something like, I ordered, sent requirements and received terrible work. This seller could not perform what I needed?"  As a result, the buyer loses his time, misses deadlines and is late to market. Does this sound like something fair?

You are making my point. Every seller who receives a cancellation blames the inept buyer who cannot appreciate the perfect delivery that was provided. This is the "infallible buyer fantasy" we hear about every day in the forum from sellers who, in their minds, only provide "immaculate, perfection" yet still suffer cancellations. It makes no sense. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by newsmike

[purplehate]

5 minutes ago, newsmike said:

You are only looking at one side. Would the buyer's perspective be something like, I ordered, sent requirements and received terrible work. This seller could not perform what I needed?"  As a result, the buyer loses his time, misses deadlines and is late to market. Does this sound like something fair?

There may be another side to the coin, but I'm considering mine, as those who work for Fiverr are in a vulnerable position right now. The buyer after the canceled order loses only time, I lose time and money, because no one will pay me for the work done

[Alex.M]

Just now, purplehate said:

because no one will pay me for the work done

and as a bonus you will get a 1 star review 😄

[Alex.M]

I don't have cancelled orders in the past 3-4 months .. we'll see now once the buyers will know about this , from 10 buyers I assume there will be 1 or 2 who is going to think that it would be great to take my services for free and I am 100% sure I will receive messages like ' i will leave a 5 star review if you cancel the order '

[zeecreations]

What happens to review removal now? If you contact support that you got an unfair review. They will just say: "they cancelled the order they can say anything".

[newsmike]

2 minutes ago, purplehate said:

There may be another side to the coin, but I'm considering mine, as those who work for Fiverr are in a vulnerable position right now. The buyer after the canceled order loses only time, I lose time and money, because no one will pay me for the work done

Yes, but we must consider others as well. You asked for fairness. That what fairness is. 

[katakatica]

4 minutes ago, newsmike said:

You are only looking at one side. Would the buyer's perspective be something like, I ordered, sent requirements and received terrible work. This seller could not perform what I needed?"  As a result, the buyer loses his time, misses deadlines and is late to market. Does this sound like something fair?

You are making my point. Every seller who receives a cancellation blames the inept buyer who cannot appreciate the perfect delivery that was provided. This is the "infallible buyer fantasy" we hear about every day in the forum from sellers who, in their minds, only provide "immaculate, perfection" yet still suffer cancellations. It makes no sense. 

Not every seller claiming that is innocent, but some are (and some buyers are... quite hard to work with.) I understand what you're saying, but I do find that it's very easy for buyers to make up lies on the spot if they want to get away with something. People lie, both sellers and buyers and it's a very tricky thing to navigate, I think. 

I'm not saying that I'm perfect, heck, I've' f-cked' up a lot, but I HAVE been played a lot as well and still continue to be messed with. My personal concern is that this is only going to get worse because now we can even get a bad review for a cancellation. Basically, buyers who knew how to play the system (as few as they are, hopefully) could get an even bigger advantage. 

(sorry for the cursing; it's not directed at you, and I can totally understand where you're coming from!) 

Though...

It COULD be a good thing in a sense since some sellers might choose to take the money AND the bad review (push for the order not to get cancelled/etc.) If the product is delivered, it SHOULD be the standard to get paid for it, I think, so honestly, who knows? 

Bad sellers WOULD eventually be weeded out, though...maybe... but I'm not sure that's what will happen first. 

It's all down to how things aren't all black and white I guess. Some sellers lie, some buyers lie, too.

[zeecreations]

1 minute ago, newsmike said:

That what fairness is

You know what fairness is? You got your work done, got your refund. Now go away!

If I buy something from a shop, it stops working next day, I go back and get a refund. I don't abuse that seller in front of the shop to harm his business.

[omnilegentangel]

I forgot to add in my response that Fiverr has also stated that the Buyer has to meet certain criteria when posting a review regarding a cancellation. Hopefully, this will also keep frivolous reviews from being posted.  

[newsmike]

21 minutes ago, katakatica said:

I do find that it's very easy for buyers to make up lies on the spot if they want to get away with something.

You know, as I think this whole issue through the thought occurs that the "buyers can rip me off just by "lying" and cancelling" argument actually makes very little sense. Reason is that if I wanted to get your work free, I would simply order, then pull a credit card chargeback after delivery. 

One may argue that by doing so the buyer loses their account, but that does not hold up because, as we know quite well, accounts are infinite and easily fabricated. That's why we see people on forum daily with 3 account buying from themselves to "rank gig" 

If I just wanted to get my work for free and not have to argue with seller, that is the clean way. 

Buyers who are communicating about what the buyer did wrong, and end up eventually cancelling, seem much more like they are disappointed by the seller and want to be heard. It means they probably suffered at the hands of an inept seller.  Otherwise, why waste all the time and hassle of arguing when you can end it all in 10 seconds?  

After all, if I'm going to shoplift, I don't go leave a review for the store afterwards. People take time to leave reviews for sellers who either pleased them, or disappointed them. Thieves don't waste their time.  

Edited June 14, 2023 by newsmike

[purplehate]

12 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Buyers who are communicating about what the buyer did wrong, and eventually cancelling, seem much more like they are disappinted by the seller and want to be heard. It means they probably suffered at the hands of an inept seller.  Otherwise, why waste all the time and hassle of arguing when you can end it all in 10 seconds?  

It seems you have never dealt with unscrupulous buyers. Of course, many people are normal, but there are those who just want to insult you. And by the way, about justice, I recently came across such a person who immediately began to insult and harass me, and even after I wrote to Fiverr support and provided all the evidence, his profile was not blocked. How do you like this justice? And now imagine the situation in reverse, that the seller will write insults to the client, how quickly technical support will intervene. The fact is that one side is protected much more.

[catwriter]

38 minutes ago, cre8iveartwork said:

What happens if  the buyer cancels an order for whatever reason they come up with and they leave a 5-star review? Wouldn't that be strange as well? Isn't that a way of manipulating the system?

Not necessarily. There are buyers who honestly dislike the seller's work and want a refund, and see it as admirable work ethic if the seller is willing to refund them. And they do see it as a 5 star experience: it didn't work out, and the seller refunded them.

That's not always the case, of course. And I can't say that I agree with that logic. I prefer getting paid. It might work for those "100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back, no questions asked" sellers, though.

[newsmike]

6 minutes ago, purplehate said:

It seems you have never dealt with unscrupulous buyers. Of course, many people are normal, but there are those who just want to insult you. And by the way, about justice, I recently came across such a person who immediately began to insult and harass me, and even after I wrote to Fiverr support and provided all the evidence, his profile was not blocked. How do you like this justice? And now imagine the situation in reverse, that the seller will write insults to the client, how quickly technical support will intervene. The fact is that one side is protected much more.

You are getting confused between two issues. First off I can guarantee you that I have dealt with more unscrupulous buyers over the years than you have ever encountered. But to get this mixed up with issues of insults and abuse is an entirely different conversation.  One I'll gladly have, but yo might want to untangle the two arguments because you are tripping over yourself logically. 

If, as you say, Fiverr reviewed what you consider to be abuse, but disagreed, then perhaps you should learn from that and not be so sensitive? This is business. Justice does not mean is not getting your way every time.  

Edited June 14, 2023 by newsmike

[purplehate]

16 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Are you seriously trying to tell us that you cannot recognize that some "work" is crap?  Your premise is flawed.  A defective product should be replaced. An incompetent artist is only capable of producing an endless supply of lousy work

 

Only a bad seller is immediately visible from the reviews, but there is no bad buyer. Often buyers create new profiles, and you cannot understand what kind of person is there

[purplehate]

4 minutes ago, newsmike said:

You are getting confused between two issues. First off I can guarantee you that I have dealt with more unscrupulous buyers over the years than you have ever encountered. But to get this mixed up with issues of insults and abuse is an entirely different conversation.  One I'll gladly have, but yo might want to untangle the two arguments because you are tripping over yourself logically. 

Insults and unscrupulous buyers are often inseparable.

[newsmike]

2 minutes ago, purplehate said:

Insults and unscrupulous buyers are often inseparable.

Not in this discussion. It is you who injected the "insults and injustice" topics into a thread where it had no place, and are switching back and forth. Again, a separate discussion. This one is about people refusing to admit that not every delivery is perfect and that Fiverr should reward bad work with a free pass and a cookie. Like Grandma. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by newsmike

[purplehate]

2 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Not in this discussion. It is you who injected the "insults and injustice" topics into a thread where it had no place, and are switching back and forth. Again, a separate discussion. 

I did't confuse anything, I am writing about the fact that sellers are in a vulnerable position. And the insult story only shows that sellers are much less protected, and the new policy will exacerbate this.

[newsmike]

Just now, purplehate said:

I did't confuse anything, I am writing about the fact that sellers are in a vulnerable position. And the insult story only shows that sellers are much less protected, and the new policy will exacerbate this.

Have you asked yourself why you suffer so at the hands of buyers while delivering great work? I don't experience this. What is it about you that makes you a magnet for such things? Should your buyers not be thrilled with your work?

[purplehate]

3 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Have you asked yourself why you suffer so at the hands of buyers while delivering great work? I don't experience this. What is it about you that makes you a magnet for such things? Should your buyers not be thrilled with your work?

Seriously victim blaming? Sure, let's blame the victims for being insulted.