Fiverr 4.0 - Some thoughts on the current state of things

[newsmike]

13 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Hopefully they implement these ideas sooner rather than later,

This was discussed 5 years ago in this forum.  It is such a no brainer, yet it is not implemented.  Imaging them not deploying a button that literally says "buy more."  I'm telling you this entire company is run by dev folks who know nothing outside of writing code.

Edited April 11, 2023 by newsmike

[donnovan86]

3 minutes ago, newsmike said:

It is such a no brainer, yet it is not implemented.  Imaging them not deploying a button that literally says "buy more." 

I guess they don't want to spook buyers and push them away. But the lack of such a feature or as I said, the ability to buy up to 20x of any gig package offers a lot of "tools" to manipulative buyers. I am still hopeful that someone from Fiverr checks the forum and eventually they see these posts and implement these ideas...

[newsmike]

2 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I guess they don't want to spook buyers and push them away.

I don't think that's realistic. Amazon has no problem showing me a "buy again" button.  They don't give me free items to avoid hurting my feelings. 

[mandyzines]

8 hours ago, vickiespencer said:

So, yesterday I asked two of my regular buyers to be sure to leave a private review, which I do not feel comfortable doing.

Everyone's already overstimulated by digital communication and it seems disrespectful to add to the requests Fiverr already made for reviews.

[mandyzines]

42 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Bingo. As soon as they get the number of revisions included in the base order, the text on the button switches from "Request Revisions" to "Buy additional revisions." This takes you to an order form.  

That would've been so handy on my last order. The person changed the script then had me do 3 revisions beyond what we agreed on and of course refused to pay for anything more. Thank gosh it finally ended. I thought it would go on for eternity. I was so close to canceling, which would've been a first.

To add to it, they left a review stating how great it was that I gave them so many revisions!

Then of course because of fearing retaliation the private review, the one I gave them was butterfly and unicorn bovine dung.

When do these private reviews expire? I really need to block this person.

Edited April 11, 2023 by mandyzines

[mandyzines]

One time in band camp a Fiverr employee messaged me asking what kind of educational opportunities they should create to address seller's mental health.

[virtual_fleet]

On 3/21/2023 at 1:50 AM, frank_d said:

OK so what gets you a spot in search results?

Great post indeed! However, can you please share any ideas about a completely new seller with a New Gig?

[danno1950]

41 minutes ago, newsmike said:

I'm telling you this entire company is run by dev folks who know nothing outside of writing code.

Based on the slump we all believe was caused by an adjustment to the algorithm, I'm not sure how solid they are at writing code.

[visualstudios]

Well, in other news I just sold my largest gig ever. Second time this year, it's actually what's propping up my numbers, so I'm on track for my goals. So yeah, if things keep going like this, numbers will go up, while number of orders will go down. I'm fine with that, but I just feel that's tempting luck too much. One big order doesn't come through for a while, and numbers are total crap.

[leannelrivers]

6 hours ago, newsmike said:

They don't give me free items to avoid hurting my feelings. 

Exactly. However, when Amazon gets a bad review from a grumpy buyer it doesn't tank Amazon. 

[williambryan392]

I increasingly think this is the result of a macro trend - recession.

For me, impressions and clicks are up (for now), and I woke up to a Fiverr choice order.

This tells me that Fiverr still 'likes' me. However, I'm still getting far fewer orders overall. Only a few messages a day and 1 order every few days, vs. previously getting double digit messages a day and several orders a day. If impressions had tanked then I'd think it was a private review issue. But because my stats are up, but orders are down I think this is buyer behaviour vs. the algorithm (at least in my case).

Many talented people have been laid off, causing more to start freelancing, and at the same time, businesses are cutting costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if we are all suffering from this to some degree. I have friends working on other platforms, and they similarly say that revenue has dropped substantially over the last couple of months.

Or of course the matching algo could be showing me to the wrong buyers, but if that was the case I would think Fiverr would have seen a massive drop in sales across the board, and in turn they'd take action.

Obviously this is all just speculation...

 

 

[miiila]

18 hours ago, danno1950 said:

It really is unfortunate that we have to be so self-protective against a nightmare of a first time buyer.

Making it even more unattractive than it already is to work with someone new

(Is it an unreasonable person? Someone who will think 1 star is the best rating, or thinks that the whole world is a mediocre pain to live in and hence nobody deserves a better rating than 3, ever? Maybe a competitor with malicious intent? Someone who'll order the cheapest possible Gig but will need hours of catering to, prior to, during, and after the order? Even a scammer who plans canceling/chargeback in any case, nevermind how awesome the delivery?)

strikes me as a not so great idea.

Especially because the people who can afford to not work with everyone who comes their way, might turn new buyer accounts away and make it more probable that they end up with meksells and leave the platform for good, before they've even begun spending a substantial amount, after a not so great first experience.

I think I've already said it somewhere else, but incentives for reliable sellers to take on new buyers instead of potentially penalizing them for no fault of their own but an unreasonable new buyer or even competitor who's out to damage their account with a bad first-time buyer's bad private feedback, might be the better strategy.

Edited April 12, 2023 by miiila

[miiila]

9 hours ago, newsmike said:

Bingo. As soon as they get the number of revisions included in the base order, the text on the button switches from "Request Revisions" to "Buy additional revisions." This takes you to an order form.  

Exactly. If it's a really lousy seller's fault that they have to, rightfully, keep requesting revisions, they can still go to support to complain.

This would also make the people halt and think who use the revision button to ask for things that should be new orders anyway, stall the reviewing period, or to say "thanks", or "I'll be back with another order soon!".

Regarding people who use the request modification button to "buy" themselves more time, Fiverr could implement that as a paid option right there, too, so they literally can buy themselves more time, "buy x more days for $x" (seller would have to be able to set the number of days and $, as the inconvenience posed by this for their scheduling will vary), another means of increasing revenue and 20% cut, isn't it.

Edited April 12, 2023 by miiila

[leannelrivers]

21 minutes ago, miiila said:

I think I've already said it somewhere else, but incentives for reliable sellers to take on new buyers instead of potentially penalizing them for no fault of their own but an unreasonable new buyer or even competitor who's out to damage their account with a bad first-time buyer's bad private feedback, might be the better strategy.

The private review is anyway far too vague. As far as I can remember, it's something like 'how can we improve your Fiverr experience' - this could mean anything, but only has 3 questions relating to the work they've received. How relevant the works was for their project, etc. They might have had a great experience with the seller, but for they're not happy for other reasons, or they didn't use the work in the end. I've had this before. The buyer was very happy with the voiceover, but they didn't use it in the end.

If any of this is reflected in the private review, the seller is punished anyway, regardless. And Fiverr won't use it to improve the seller because we're not allowed details about the review. Bonkers. 

[leannelrivers]

10 hours ago, newsmike said:

Bingo. As soon as they get the number of revisions included in the base order, the text on the button switches from "Request Revisions" to "Buy additional revisions." This takes you to an order form.  

Even a friendly prompt for buyers to let them know they're on their last included revision might help. Too often, revisions come through in small bits, a word to change here and there. A prompt would make buyers more concise with the changes and have them send them all at once instead of requesting multiple tiny edits. But I think many buyers would go to direct message and ask for another revision to bypass having to pay more. And that would leave it in our hands again. Stick to our guns and charge the additional fee, or work for free to avoid a disgruntled private review. 

I have plenty of experience with fantastic buyers who are aware of what they've ordered and don't need pushing to pay extra for more revisions. They request the additional extra themselves. But I have more experience with the opposite, and I've lost hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars in free revisions and unpaid usage rights over the years just because I didn't want the hassle or the bad review that would damage me. That's my fault, and I'm working harder to create better opportunities and professional relationships. Now is the time to cast the net wider and double down. Recession doesn't scare me. The world has always been off its rocker and my freelance fridge has been well stocked for at least 10 years. 

I've felt a certain sense of loyalty to Fiverr because of what my SMs have been able to do for me and because of being involved in other things on the platform. I felt I was a valued professional. And I am just a loyal person, professionally and privately. That sense of loyalty stopped me from expressing dissatisfaction about how things work here. But I'm not satisfied. Not with the review system, the rating system or the pressure I feel to undercut myself and my peers and an industry in order to succeed on this platform.

But at the end of the day, this is a global marketplace and gig economy. Fiverr doesn't really owe me anything, I'm not a victim, and I have a choice, sell here or not. Particular changes would help us all and bring more revenue to the platform, but when you have hundreds of thousands of gigs the revenue is coming anyway. And it's Fiverr, it's cheap, that's why so many buyers come here.

Edited April 12, 2023 by leannelrivers

[donnovan86]

12 minutes ago, leannelrivers said:

And it's Fiverr, it's cheap, that's why so many buyers come here. I'm just one Freelancer.

Exactly. Unless we band together and show that thousands upon thousands of people want ma specific change, then the chances of that happening are very slim. I've had a ton of people place orders that are 5x, 10x or sometimes even 20x my maximum word count, Fiverr still allows people to order up to 20x the gig packages, even if you don't want to as a seller. So there are definitely a lot of things to improve...

[knightartist86]

I'm on Fiverr for 10 Years. Top seller with over 1.5k reviews on one gig alone, 5 star rating AND 'Buyers keep returning' status. I'm now on page 4 of the search, with many 4.8/4.9 level 1 sellers ahead of me, lost thousands of impressions. Haven't had an order in a week, most people are old clients. I relied on Fiverr for my clients and this is the first time in years I've been worried about my income. 

All I'm doing is helping Fiverr by sending clients to my Fiverr page and not the other way about. 

So many Long term Fiverr sellers and Top sellers will be abandoning this platform with the way things are currently running. Not because they'd want to but because they have no choice.

[visualstudios]

7 hours ago, williambryan392 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we are all suffering from this to some degree. I have friends working on other platforms, and they similarly say that revenue has dropped substantially over the last couple of months.

That's what's weird though. If spend was going down, it wouldn't make sense that I sold my two biggest orders ever this year. Sure, it can all be "luck", but we're talking about two single orders each valued more than a lot of entire months last year. So there's definitely people out there with money to spend. They exist. The problem is that Fiverr doesn't seem to send them to me frequently enough - when I've proven I can close those deals, and make Fiverr a ton in commission. Sure, money to spend can be going down - but that's a double edged sword. Maybe before these guys would go to a LA studio and pay 50k por a commercial. Suddenly, paying 10k to a freelancer is not spending a lot - it's actually cutting down spending tremendously.

In the meanwhile, my SM has suggested again and again that I should go for lower priced, quicker orders, which given the current climate would be an obvious mistake. The "ready made quick thing for cheap" era is over - AI killed it. The value now is in the creative direction, in the personal touch, in the bespoke. And that can't come "cheap". They just don't get it.

Edited April 12, 2023 by visualstudios

[leannelrivers]

12 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

So there's definitely people out there with money to spend. They exist.

I've been in auditions for jobs the past days that have real budgets. Sure, I have to audition, that's part and parcel of an acting/voice acting career, but the projects are there and the money is there. And I've been encouraged by a couple of recent clients who said they have no interest in replacing their go-to talents with AI, no matter how good that gets. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by leannelrivers

[williambryan392]

1 hour ago, visualstudios said:

That's what's weird though. If spend was going down, it wouldn't make sense that I sold my two biggest orders ever this year.

That's interesting for sure, and on a separate note congratulations on the new milestone achievement.

My only counter would be that it's not a meaningful data set. Could just be an edge case / 2 outliers.

Similarly, my 2 biggest orders for my LinkedIn gig were about 4 weeks, they both purchased all the gig extras within about 2 days of each other, and both left sizeable tips. I actually thought I was maybe being scammed lol, but all good so far. Even so, overall, it does still seem strange what's going on.

[visualstudios]

1 minute ago, williambryan392 said:

Could just be an edge case / 2 outliers.

Yes, of course, but it's still curious that I got people to spend more precisely when the trend seems to be people spending less. Maybe a bit too curious. Of course I don't have the numbers, so it's impossible to tell.

[kendal1747]

21 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

In my case it is. Because he specifically said he won't work with me if I don't offer unlimited revisions. Which I obviously declined.

Do you think declining orders may have an effect on our impressions? Or maybe other variables?

[donnovan86]

2 minutes ago, kendal1747 said:

Do you think declining orders may have an effect on our impressions? Or maybe other variables?

Well I did see that if messages don't convert into orders, I usually don't receive any new messages for a little while. So it might have some effect, it's hard to know without having data from other people. But I don't think it has a significant impact, at least based on my experience. 

[kendal1747]

20 hours ago, danno1950 said:

A positive private survey balances out a negative private survey, and positively impacts your BSR. How much impact - no one knows. That's on the super-secret level.

Another 5err secret that the odd couples can sell.

[leannelrivers]

15 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

LinkedIn orders

When you say orders, was this through arranging contracts over Linkedin? I heard there might be a gig style booking system in the works, but is there already some kind of booking I'm not aware of?