We need to talk about the forum

[frank_d]

This thread doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

I am all for people disagreeing, but this is just: one person suggesting something and another person says that won’t work without discussing other possibilities or sharing examples.

The rebuttal is focused on “this won’t work” instead of “let’s explore what could work.”

I guess you are right, I am not offering an alternative.

My reply was focused on setting expectations. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

I am still processing this whole “forum v3.0” thing, and I have yet to hear from @mjensen415 on our mod channels, calling us to give feedback or suggest things.

I will try to ping him so we can see if this discussion can lead somewhere.

[humanissocial]

I guess you are right, I am not offering an alternative.

My reply was focused on setting expectations. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

I am still processing this whole “forum v3.0” thing, and I have yet to hear from @mjensen415 on our mod channels, calling us to give feedback or suggest things.

I will try to ping him so we can see if this discussion can lead somewhere.

. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so

That’s not fair Frank.

I’m just suggesting a proactive discussion instead of nothing but negativity in responses. That shouldn’t suggest to you that I object to dissent and won’t consider a rebuttal. In fact I said the opposite.

[frank_d]

. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so

That’s not fair Frank.

I’m just suggesting a proactive discussion instead of nothing but negativity in responses. That shouldn’t suggest to you that I object to dissent and won’t consider a rebuttal. In fact I said the opposite.

I apologize if my response seemed unfair.

We are on the same boat. I am not deliberately being negative, that was not my intention.

I am looking for solutions and I am just trying to gather data from this thread from everyone who posted.

I appreciate your input and if anything, I agree with you that we need a better process, whatever that process will be.

[humanissocial]

I guess you are right, I am not offering an alternative.

My reply was focused on setting expectations. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

I am still processing this whole “forum v3.0” thing, and I have yet to hear from @mjensen415 on our mod channels, calling us to give feedback or suggest things.

I will try to ping him so we can see if this discussion can lead somewhere.

If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

This doesn’t seem unfair. It IS unfair. You completely mischaracterized what I said to try to discredit me and make me look unreasonable.

I never suggested I was going to “keep” doing anything regardless of rebuttal or that I am not open to rebuttal, as you are implying. I was suggesting rebuttal be proactive instead of negative.

So yes twisting what I said and felt to make me look unreasonable “seems” unfair.

[frank_d]

If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

This doesn’t seem unfair. It IS unfair. You completely mischaracterized what I said to try to discredit me and make me look unreasonable.

I never suggested I was going to “keep” doing anything regardless of rebuttal or that I am not open to rebuttal, as you are implying. I was suggesting rebuttal be proactive instead of negative.

So yes twisting what I said and felt to make me look unreasonable “seems” unfair.

hey @humanissocial I don’t understand what we are doing here.

I think with every reply I write, you are pulling this discussion somewhere else.

Not sure what the issue is anymore, I read my replies over and over to make sure I wasn’t unfair.

I have run out of ways to say what I meant.

[humanissocial]

I guess you are right, I am not offering an alternative.

My reply was focused on setting expectations. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

I am still processing this whole “forum v3.0” thing, and I have yet to hear from @mjensen415 on our mod channels, calling us to give feedback or suggest things.

I will try to ping him so we can see if this discussion can lead somewhere.

If you don’t want me to defend myself here, then don’t twist what I say and then brush it off. Easy.

This was super rude and irrational and completely contradicts what I was actually saying.

. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

[frank_d]

If you don’t want me to defend myself here, then don’t twist what I say and then brush it off. Easy.

This was super rude and irrational and completely contradicts what I was actually saying.

. If you want to keep thinking your idea might work, then by all means feel free to do so.

OK maybe I missed something important here.

Did you or did you not suggest that people should somehow be tested on having read the ToS before posting on the forum?

Did I misread your suggestion?

[humanissocial]

OK maybe I missed something important here.

Did you or did you not suggest that people should somehow be tested on having read the ToS before posting on the forum?

Did I misread your suggestion?

Did you or did you not suggest that people should somehow be tested on having read the ToS before posting on the forum?

Did I misread your suggestion?

You did. But this isnt relevant to what I’m saying to you now unless you’re saying it justifies being rude to me and mischaracterizing what I said.

It’s sad if offering a bold idea and then seeking proactive rebuttal justifies being rude to me.

[frank_d]

Did you or did you not suggest that people should somehow be tested on having read the ToS before posting on the forum?

Did I misread your suggestion?

You did. But this isnt relevant to what I’m saying to you now unless you’re saying it justifies being rude to me and mischaracterizing what I said.

It’s sad if offering a bold idea and then seeking proactive rebuttal justifies being rude to me.

You keep saying I was rude. I don’t think I was.

What I will do instead of apologizing for something I did not do to you, is stop engaging, as you are doubling down on this outrage thing.

[humanissocial]

You keep saying I was rude. I don’t think I was.

What I will do instead of apologizing for something I did not do to you, is stop engaging, as you are doubling down on this outrage thing.

You don’t think it’s rude to twist what people say to make them look bad?

Good to know.

Have a good day Frank.

[imagination7413]

It’s not shutting people out to expect them to understand the ToS and prove it before they join the forum. And that has an easily rectified solution: all they have to do is read the ToS.

I don’t think that is an unreasonable or insensitive expectation.

It’s not shutting people out to expect them to understand the ToS and prove it before they join the forum.

So if they are not doing it where it actually matters most (having a new seller read the ToS before creating a new gig, or in order to get it published) then why would they do that on the forum?

I’m not going to get in the middle of the argument, I respect you both too much for that. All I’ll say is that I can see both the points and agree with both points simultaneously. Some of the problems with the forums stem from Fiverr itself. We who can barely influence the forums have no chance of instigating a change on the main platform. At the same time, while we can’t touch the main site, we can attempt to poke the forums.

What would I like to see? This, finished: https://forum.fiverr.com/c/forum-2020/38 Because most of what is brought up in this thread was also brought up in the wish-list.

[vickiespencer]

Hey there, I am not linking to an older topic of yours to call you out.

I am doing so to demonstrate that people do learn and grow.

So this is your topic back in August:

Hello, I am not getting any orders since the past three months just 5 dollars one that also like 3 or 4. I used to get many orders before. Since the issue of the search issue, my gig was pushed back my earnings went down. My gig is on page 13 and no body obviously goes so back to check out any gig. Please guide how can i get orders? I am quite frustrated. I am aware that we should promote our gigs on social media, improve seo, title, tags , description, gig image/video etc, other than these pl…

You were asking about the very thing you now are tired of.

My point is that we all make mistakes.

We all are wrong about stuff until we find useful information and grow.

So by asking for a new version of the forum that leaves people who don’t know what to do or how to behave out, we are going to have a forum that’s not a helpful community and will not show people that there’s a better future state for them.

We need a better forum, sure.

But I don’t think it will be better if we just shun people that need help the most.

I can’t help everyone getting more orders and revenue, nor can I convince them to hear me out when I tell them they are focused on the wrong thing.

But I can show them a better path if they are willing to listen.

But I can show them a better path if they are willing to listen.

This is really the crux of the problem. When the answer is not what the person asking the question wants to hear then they will listen to the bad advice that could get them in trouble given by those who do not have the correct answer.

I’m clarifying that I’m not talking about onboarding to Fiverr. I’m talking about onboarding to the Fiverr forum.

To me, it makes more sense to make it a requirement on the platform. It seems like many problems we see and hear about on the Forum would be avoided if somehow users were made responsible for the knowledge in the TOS instead of merely ticking the boxes.

The ‘test’ could address the main issues we see here. Such as doing homework, delivering unfinished work to avoid being late, sharing IP addresses, and the like. But the test questions would need to rotate so the test is not the same every time, or soon there would be a YouTube Fiverr Guru giving the answers so the unscrupulous could cheat.

What would I like to see? This, finished:

I agree with @imagination7413. I was looking forward to the wish list being fulfilled more than it has been.

I am personally more fatigued after I joined the mods team if I am being honest.

Thank you for your service.

[wordsfire]

This thread doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

I am all for people disagreeing, but this is just: one person suggesting something and another person says that won’t work without discussing other possibilities or sharing examples.

The rebuttal is focused on “this won’t work” instead of “let’s explore what could work.”

This thread doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

I am all for people disagreeing, but this is just: one person suggesting something and another person says that won’t work without discussing other possibilities or sharing examples.

The rebuttal is focused on “this won’t work” instead of “let’s explore what could work.”

Speaking of alternatives, it might be possible to create a walled category, one that may or may not be visible to everyone but allows only selected people to post. However, beware of DMs.

…and if we want only the selected people to see and participate in it, we can always create a private thread (on this very forum and) with our chosen people.

Not sure if that will work, Ashley, especially in the long run.

Every community needs new blood to sustain itself.

Off topic?

@frank_d You’re my favorite forum persona so far. I’ve never seen anyone being as considerate as yourself. Your extra-long threads and ideas have helped me a lot, not only on Fiverr but otherwise. It’d be amazing to read more of them.

Keep up the great work. (:

[catwriter]

This thread doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

I am all for people disagreeing, but this is just: one person suggesting something and another person says that won’t work without discussing other possibilities or sharing examples.

The rebuttal is focused on “this won’t work” instead of “let’s explore what could work.”

Speaking of alternatives, it might be possible to create a walled category, one that may or may not be visible to everyone but allows only selected people to post. However, beware of DMs.

…and if we want only the selected people to see and participate in it, we can always create a private thread (on this very forum and) with our chosen people.

Not sure if that will work, Ashley, especially in the long run.

Every community needs new blood to sustain itself.

Off topic?

@frank_d You’re my favorite forum persona so far. I’ve never seen anyone being as considerate as yourself. Your extra-long threads and ideas have helped me a lot, not only on Fiverr but otherwise. It’d be amazing to read more of them.

Keep up the great work. (:

and if we want only the selected people to see and participate in it, we can always create a private thread (on this very forum and) with our chosen people.

And as soon as mods don’t like it for any reason, it gets shut down. I’ve been in a bunch of those, and we gave up on creating them.

[humanissocial]

and if we want only the selected people to see and participate in it, we can always create a private thread (on this very forum and) with our chosen people.

And as soon as mods don’t like it for any reason, it gets shut down. I’ve been in a bunch of those, and we gave up on creating them.

Or you get gaslit by a mod if they insinuate incorrect things about you and you defend yourself.

[manuelmarino]

Perhaps adding a ‘misinformation’ flag

The second you mention “misinformation” in any capacity, the delusion will only get worse. “See, they don’t want you to know the truth! They want ALL the orders for themselves”.

Ranting Pot is the only category I use at this point, both to post and to read. You can actually find interesting (and at times very upsetting) well-articulated stories where people are coming together to find a solution and you’re actually curious at how the situation plays out.

I used to be able to find 3-4 posts in the Latest to engage with, now it’s mostly white noise. So I figured that the forum wasn’t for everyone at all times and you just had to wait for your wave to come. I do appreciate still seeing familiar faces every time I do show up.

All the annoying misinformation replies would be downvoted to the end of the page.

That is assuming that the majority of active forum users don’t want to see them. Based on my experience, it’s a very optimistic assumption to make.

Someone really flagged my earlier post…

Wasn’t me, I <3 it. It’s nice to have you back, no matter how long you can last.

The second you mention “misinformation” in any capacity, the delusion will only get worse. “See, they don’t want you to know the truth! They want ALL the orders for themselves”.

fantastic!!! I was thinking that. All these guys thinking “hey they are hiding the truth, the “tricks”, so they keep the orders for themselves”. Yes, a kind of big online fair, where you win prizes. NO! no and no. This is a platform for professional freelancers. They’ll never accept this.

[humanissocial]

The second you mention “misinformation” in any capacity, the delusion will only get worse. “See, they don’t want you to know the truth! They want ALL the orders for themselves”.

fantastic!!! I was thinking that. All these guys thinking “hey they are hiding the truth, the “tricks”, so they keep the orders for themselves”. Yes, a kind of big online fair, where you win prizes. NO! no and no. This is a platform for professional freelancers. They’ll never accept this.

I see this happening, too.

The incentive for reading it would have to very clear. Instead of “follow these rules” it would have to be, “here is what you gain by adhering to these rules.” It could explore benefits like: protecting yourself from fraud, avoiding time lost from preventable admin work, protecting yourself from getting banned.

The advice should be based on outcomes.

Usually it works against you financially to break the ToS. Fiverr could make that clearer.

[imagination7413]

The second you mention “misinformation” in any capacity, the delusion will only get worse. “See, they don’t want you to know the truth! They want ALL the orders for themselves”.

fantastic!!! I was thinking that. All these guys thinking “hey they are hiding the truth, the “tricks”, so they keep the orders for themselves”. Yes, a kind of big online fair, where you win prizes. NO! no and no. This is a platform for professional freelancers. They’ll never accept this.

“hey they are hiding the truth, the “tricks”, so they keep the orders for themselves”

I keep the ‘tricks’ to myself because they’re actually generally accepted principles that anyone could learn if they’re willing to apply themselves and self-educate. I did not go through college to summarize and hand over everything I learned to competitors who want handouts. Do I keep things to myself? Yes. Is it to hog orders and steal sales? No. It’s because of the costs involved in obtaining that information.

Could I share the resources, even if I won’t summarize? I could, but that’d be like handing car keys to a 14 year-old. There are 14 year-olds out there, who have learned that driving is a privilege and responsibility. A majority, though, are not and are more likely to hurt themselves and others. Prove to me you know how to drive and follow rules (or at least show an honest desire to learn) and I might share my keys and show you how to safely change a tire and how to check the oil so that you don’t have to rely on roadside assistance for every little hiccup in the future. Preventive maintenance goes a long way towards preserving the life of a vehicle, and it goes a long way towards surviving as a freelancer.

(Was that too corny of an analogy?)

[wordsfire]

and if we want only the selected people to see and participate in it, we can always create a private thread (on this very forum and) with our chosen people.

And as soon as mods don’t like it for any reason, it gets shut down. I’ve been in a bunch of those, and we gave up on creating them.

And as soon as mods don’t like it for any reason, it gets shut down. I’ve been in a bunch of those, and we gave up on creating them.

Maybe, have a moderator host and moderate that thread then? Of course, then, they will decide who gets to access it. People will still get removed for reasons. but the thread won’t be jinxed.

The hidden thread was only one of the two alternatives suggested though.

And not the good one, I guess.

[imagination7413]

The first of your suggestions kind of already exists, in the Lounge, but it’s not ‘exclusive’ in that someone who posts a lot of friendly but zero-content posts can still achieve Regular status, and it’s a status that can be lost. It’s a bit of effort to maintain and right now the forums are (for some) more hassle to contribute to in any meaningful way that would make one proud to intentionally retain the Regular badge. Thus the whole point of this thread: the forums are nothing to be proud of in their current state.

[humanissocial]

“hey they are hiding the truth, the “tricks”, so they keep the orders for themselves”

I keep the ‘tricks’ to myself because they’re actually generally accepted principles that anyone could learn if they’re willing to apply themselves and self-educate. I did not go through college to summarize and hand over everything I learned to competitors who want handouts. Do I keep things to myself? Yes. Is it to hog orders and steal sales? No. It’s because of the costs involved in obtaining that information.

Could I share the resources, even if I won’t summarize? I could, but that’d be like handing car keys to a 14 year-old. There are 14 year-olds out there, who have learned that driving is a privilege and responsibility. A majority, though, are not and are more likely to hurt themselves and others. Prove to me you know how to drive and follow rules (or at least show an honest desire to learn) and I might share my keys and show you how to safely change a tire and how to check the oil so that you don’t have to rely on roadside assistance for every little hiccup in the future. Preventive maintenance goes a long way towards preserving the life of a vehicle, and it goes a long way towards surviving as a freelancer.

(Was that too corny of an analogy?)

No it was a great analogy! Helping is an investment and investing in the wrong things is dangerous, not advantageous.

[manuelmarino]

“hey they are hiding the truth, the “tricks”, so they keep the orders for themselves”

I keep the ‘tricks’ to myself because they’re actually generally accepted principles that anyone could learn if they’re willing to apply themselves and self-educate. I did not go through college to summarize and hand over everything I learned to competitors who want handouts. Do I keep things to myself? Yes. Is it to hog orders and steal sales? No. It’s because of the costs involved in obtaining that information.

Could I share the resources, even if I won’t summarize? I could, but that’d be like handing car keys to a 14 year-old. There are 14 year-olds out there, who have learned that driving is a privilege and responsibility. A majority, though, are not and are more likely to hurt themselves and others. Prove to me you know how to drive and follow rules (or at least show an honest desire to learn) and I might share my keys and show you how to safely change a tire and how to check the oil so that you don’t have to rely on roadside assistance for every little hiccup in the future. Preventive maintenance goes a long way towards preserving the life of a vehicle, and it goes a long way towards surviving as a freelancer.

(Was that too corny of an analogy?)

Do I keep things to myself? Yes

mmmmm yes, but my phrase was sarcastic. It’s clear anyone of us has a know how learned through years of experience. What “those ones” want are real tricks to overwrite the real rules and have an advantage. Something I don’t like and hate of this behaviour. I’m sure anyone agrees with me on this. Anyway, your post is perfect. We are in synergy, I would give you unlimited hearts if possible 😊

[zreine]

So I’m no expert on Fiverr’s forum, but I used to be a moderator on another forum and we had to deal with similar problems. I guess all forums suffer from those to a different scale. The forum was about how to care for exotic pets, so misinformation was a big deal since it could result in the death of an animal or someone having their pets taken away from them. What we did was:

• All moderators had their user name in bright bold red. It may seem like a detail, but the visual cue is there. It was way more visible that the little grey shield and the red color was speaking for us, like the police starting their flashing lights.

• A minimum of 40 useful post was required to have access to certain categories.

• When it came to advices (in our case care sheets) only a few selected trust worthy members could make a thread in that section. And the thread had to be approved by the moderators and admin before being made public. Nobody could comment under those thread to avoid the “Thank you for the info!” spam.

• We had a warning point system. 3 warnings and it was a perma ban. Some offense were worst than other so you could also lose more than one point or get ban without any warning if it was really bad.

• As for misinformation, because moderators were so visible with our red color, usually when we would enter a Thread to say “This is bad info, stop spreading it” people would listen. Not listening could lead to a warning and even a ban. (we could give warning, but the admin was in charge of the ban decision)

Thing were way better after implementing those rules, but I have to say we were really strict. Members knew we where not kidding around when we were showing up and giving warnings. I don’t know if any of this could be applied here, but who knows, maybe some of those ideas could be useful.

[humanissocial]

So I’m no expert on Fiverr’s forum, but I used to be a moderator on another forum and we had to deal with similar problems. I guess all forums suffer from those to a different scale. The forum was about how to care for exotic pets, so misinformation was a big deal since it could result in the death of an animal or someone having their pets taken away from them. What we did was:

• All moderators had their user name in bright bold red. It may seem like a detail, but the visual cue is there. It was way more visible that the little grey shield and the red color was speaking for us, like the police starting their flashing lights.

• A minimum of 40 useful post was required to have access to certain categories.

• When it came to advices (in our case care sheets) only a few selected trust worthy members could make a thread in that section. And the thread had to be approved by the moderators and admin before being made public. Nobody could comment under those thread to avoid the “Thank you for the info!” spam.

• We had a warning point system. 3 warnings and it was a perma ban. Some offense were worst than other so you could also lose more than one point or get ban without any warning if it was really bad.

• As for misinformation, because moderators were so visible with our red color, usually when we would enter a Thread to say “This is bad info, stop spreading it” people would listen. Not listening could lead to a warning and even a ban. (we could give warning, but the admin was in charge of the ban decision)

Thing were way better after implementing those rules, but I have to say we were really strict. Members knew we where not kidding around when we were showing up and giving warnings. I don’t know if any of this could be applied here, but who knows, maybe some of those ideas could be useful.

I love it all! Thanks for the suggestion!

[benedictrm]

I don’t think that will ever happen.

Fiverr as a platform wants to reduce friction during the onboarding process.

So if they are not doing it where it actually matters most (having a new seller read the ToS before creating a new gig, or in order to get it published) then why would they do that on the forum?

I am personally more fatigued after I joined the mods team if I am being honest.

It’s like I am advocating for common sense 90% of the time and then I am figuratively out of breath when I see a thread where I can actually help someone who’s struggling with business concepts.

I can’t choose to ignore categories anymore and only join in on conversations I like.

So if this weight is on my shoulders, to always be there to give the same links to all new members that seem to be grossly missing the point, then so be it.

Is it the most efficient way to run a community forum? Probably not.

But I don’t think the answer is to create a walled garden.

Fiverr as a platform wants to reduce friction during the onboarding process.

And this is the exact thing they all do, and it is creating the very problems we have.

Society used to be based on working together to manage the problems. Now problems are considered a failing of the invisible “they” so no one is willing to do even the most basic of things to help themselves seeing “they” should make it easy for us. Society is no longer based on a need to be together against the weather, disease, vikings…

Every platform/system that has this reduction of friction is growing but with a massive cancer at its core. The problem tho seems that if you create a system with even the most basic of friction to qualify the wheat from the chaff, the people you can serve from those you can’t, people refuse to be involved.

🙂