Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[rudyabel]

I just had a 3 day relay race with CS. I don't feel like I spoke to a real Human in the whole time. I just got passed from "person" to "person". Feeding me the same 3 lines over and over again as if I didn't make a relevant point. 
It's been 8 months.  
Whatever infraction that has be issued should be resolved by now. I asked them initially if I should give up. Look at my account. Do I have a real future with the company? They tap danced around this like Fred Astaire. Ultimately giving me no information on my status. Applauding my record. And saying leaving is my prerogative if I so choose. Never really answering the question. If I actually paid money for a SP session, it would be just as nebulous. 
My gig has crashed almost below new seller exposure. I am a TRS with a 9 over all rating. There is no reason I or others at our level should be seeing these low numbers for this long.

What's the point of achieving anything on fiverr if it doesn't matter and won't count?

I've had talks with people who were once preferred, see their 6 digit business buckle to 25% of it's previous exposure. Relying on repeat customers almost exclusively.
Another that nearly lost it all, permanently, if not for a near class action of people coming out of every corner to press SP/CS to reinstate this long time beloved figure. The rest of us don't have that kind of pull. 
Where you can say to a less prolific seller that they are just "being unreasonable". You cannot say the same to the people who have achieved great success and now are getting trampled underfoot too.  One is "bellyaching" the other is darkly systemic. 

Is Fiverr over?

 

Edited June 2 by rudyabel

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, cucinavivace said:

But why would they lie and leave tips and come back to pay me again? It's BS.

Well, they also compare our gigs to others in the niche. And when it comes to private feedback, there are multiple options, not just good or bad. So it might be that. 

[ch6k0r]

Since success score compares us to other sellers with similar aspects and niches, what are the factors that are being compared and how do I change who am I compared to? example: If I lower my price will I be compared to people with a lower rate? and vice versa.
I work on an artistic field (Music) and art is very subjective when it comes to comparisons and competitivity.
And by the way after the removale of promoted gigs, lately I get no orders and it was my only way of fixing my score one day (even if my score doesn't seem to move after +50 orders)

Edited June 4 by ch6k0r

[donnovan86]

4 hours ago, ch6k0r said:

how do I change who am I compared to? example: If I lower my price will I be compared to people with a lower rate? and vice versa.

Fiverr won't say most likely. But I assume you are compared with people within your category. I don't think pricing matters, the category matters. 

[ch6k0r]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

Fiverr won't say most likely. But I assume you are compared with people within your category. I don't think pricing matters, the category matters. 

Thanks man, I apreciate the amount of smart opinions that you've provided on this thread

[priyank_mod]

6 hours ago, ch6k0r said:

Thanks man, I apreciate the amount of smart opinions that you've provided on this thread

To my limited understanding - its the sheer number of orders a seller delivers and the average time frame for each order. (let's say on a weekly basis)

PS given that those orders don't receive bad public and/or private ratings. 

This is the REASON why agency accounts masquerading as single sellers are winning this game. 

Edited June 5 by priyank_mod

[rawque_gulia]

7 hours ago, ch6k0r said:

I don't think pricing matters,

9 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Fiverr won't say most likely. But I assume you are compared with people within your category. I don't think pricing matters, the category matters. 

Fiverr definitely considers pricing when comparing you with your competitors. Of course, it won't compare a $5 seller with a $500 seller. This has already been confirmed by Customer Support today when I reached out to them regarding a cancellation query.

Source: Customer Support

Edited June 5 by rawque_gulia

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, priyank_mod said:

This is the REASON why agency accounts masquerading as single sellers are winning this game. 

In the writing section there's a Pro seller which in an online interview said she has over 100 employees. Yet on their profile page, it's "me", "I" will write, etc. That's obviously unfair and they manage to generate a massive income and tons of profit, most likely that seller never writes anything, they just receive, share the guidelines and manage the reviews, etc. And we are compared to that person, and many others that do the same, most likely. That's unfair. 

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, rawque_gulia said:

Of course, it won't compare a $5 seller with a $500 seller.

Well it would be for the best to keep such a comparison. But again, lack of transparency when it comes to the price bracket. What are the price brackets, $5-$100 or $5-$10?  There's no info, so you don't know. They might very well compare everyone regardless of the price and we would not know. 

[rawque_gulia]

26 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

There's no info, so you don't know. They might very well compare everyone regardless of the price and we would not know.

To be honest, it's best that the info is hidden -- otherwise, the entire marketplace will go into trash. Everyone will start downgrading their prices to fit those brackets to avoid any competition with high-level/high-priced sellers.

It's best for us that certain aspects of the algorithm remain untransparent (to keep the entire ecosystem balanced).

29 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

They might very well compare everyone regardless of the price and we would not know. 

I think you missed the second part of my message. Yes, they have not revealed the price brackets, but they have certainly confirmed that they take prices into consideration. So, saying that "they compare everyone regardless of the price" directly contradicts customer support's statement (which knows better than us), I guess.

[donnovan86]

10 minutes ago, rawque_gulia said:

It's best for us that certain aspects of the algorithm remain untransparent (to keep the entire ecosystem balanced).

The sheer fact that we know we are compared with outsourcers makes this very messy, and outsourcers take advantage of that by getting even more orders, while others don't.  

10 minutes ago, rawque_gulia said:

Yes, they have not revealed the price brackets, but they have certainly confirmed that they take prices into consideration.

I didn't miss anything. I saw that, but I don't trust the statement based on my personal findings and scouting of the marketplace. 

[rawque_gulia]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

The sheer fact that we know we are compared with outsourcers makes this very messy, and outsourcers take advantage of that by getting even more orders, while others don't.  

Completely agree! Even for the algorithm, it wouldn't be difficult to identify who is working as an individual and who is working as an agency. Honestly, it already knows that! If 90% of people are delivering an average of 1 logo per day, and on the other hand, others are delivering 20 logos per day, it's clear that those are outsourcing the work.

Fiverr should definitely consider this while comparing us with those agencies.

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

I didn't miss anything. I saw that, but I don't trust the statement based on my personal findings and scouting of the marketplace. 

Still not sure what the solid reason for this is. No customer support will provide wrong information, so contradicting their statement (who knows internally how the algorithm functions) by us (who are just assuming things) doesn't add up! But yeah, everyone is welcome to share their point of view!

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, rawque_gulia said:

But yeah, everyone is welcome to share their point of view!

It's not the first time when a success manager said one thing and customer support said the opposite. That's why I take things with a grain of salt. 

[cucinavivace]

1 hour ago, rawque_gulia said:

No customer support will provide wrong information, so contradicting their statement (who knows internally how the algorithm functions) by us (who are just assuming things) doesn't add up! 

 

Oh, Fiverr customer support provides the wrong information all the time. I've had them tell me the wrong timeframe to leave a review, the wrong timeframe for a customer to complain and ask for a refund, the wrong eligibility for early withdrawals, the wrong eligibility for promoted gigs, the wrong information on public ratings duration, the wrong information on subscription cancellations ...

A couple weeks ago I had a complicated situation with a buyer on a subscription and wanted to block him from buying from me again. A CS rep told me that blocking a buyer only blocks them in the inbox. I had to send her their own documentation saying that if a buyer has a completed order with you, blocking is supposed to completely block them from your profile. I never got a response.

I'm not saying it's wrong this time. That "relative to other sellers" bit is a cut and paste from the gig score documentation, not even that rep's personal response. But assuming CS's information is gospel at all times is definitely misplaced faith.

Edited June 5 by cucinavivace

[tosindev]

I think mid May 2024 I got back to level 2 with my success score of my main gig increased from 6 to 7, but other metrics inside is still confusing, hardly anything concrete to backtrack what I did better. This system is very discouraging. I'm going to try messaging CS again.

[filipdevaere]

59 minutes ago, thateamltd said:

Ooo this post very helpful for me

Did you read the 65 pages?

[smartdezigns]

1 minute ago, thateamltd said:

Yes of course

Could you please summarize everything in few points so that I can understand what actually has been discussed here? 

[hamingtone]

first of all thank you guys for talking about the new leveling system, i have been frustrated and immensly stressed after the new succes score update because it confirms that the platform is completely out of touch with its sellers, rather than promoting growth and rewarding loyalty and good work you get a shot in the foot

5 stars reviews no longer matter, even if a costumer is satisfied with the work and leaves a tip on top doesnt matter either, repeat costumers dont seem to matter either, but god forbid if you get a revision you go from top seller to rockbottom,

finally as sellers i feel like our work and contribution to the platform is futile since growth in this kind of enviroment is near impossible, this only makes me want to take my services else where rather than improve and do "better"

[rudyabel]

Quiet firing describes how managers fail to adequately provide coaching, support and career development to an employee, which results in pushing the employee out of an organization.

In a worst-case scenario, quiet firing happens when managers allow employees to have truly toxic or miserable experiences at work as a way to squeeze them out. It's a form of gaslighting.

And while this may be a common practice in today's workplace, it isn't good leadership, productive or the right thing to do. At the very least, it tarnishes your employer's reputation as a good place to work, poisons team trust and can even hurt your ability to keep customers happy when key employees exit.

Get accustomed to this term. It is happening here right now. 

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, rudyabel said:

Get accustomed to this term. It is happening here right now. 

We are not Fiverr employees though. We are contractors, and this is just a platform where we present services. Just because we sell stuff on Craigslist, that doesn't make us Craigslist employees. It's pretty much the same thing, the only difference is that Fiverr is a freelancing platform. But it's not like we are employed by them, Kesha and other team members are employees, we are just third party contractors. 

[dponzio]

29 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

We are not Fiverr employees though. We are contractors, and this is just a platform where we present services. Just because we sell stuff on Craigslist, that doesn't make us Craigslist employees. It's pretty much the same thing, the only difference is that Fiverr is a freelancing platform. But it's not like we are employed by them, Kesha and other team members are employees, we are just third party contractors. 

That being true, I wonder why then we are subject to certain forms of pressure and obligations that in certain countries (like mine) are not legal if you are not an employee? Pretty the same happened with the food delivery providers - the EU has sanctioned certain forms of abuse of free contracting. https://www.politico.eu/article/italy-demands-733-million-euros-in-fines-from-food-delivery-platforms/ ; https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/12/08/gig-economy-eu-prepares-new-rules-which-could-hit-uber-and-deliveroo ; https://www.politico.eu/article/uber-future-uk-court-ruling-workers-rights-protections/ ; 

Edited June 12 by dponzio
adding one more informative link

[rudyabel]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

We are not Fiverr employees though. We are contractors, and this is just a platform where we present services. 

Ok, let's make a little space to get this point. The illusion of free will here is staggering. You are very much subject to the whims of the corporate machine. You are not free to run if you are not allowed exposure. They are drying people out to shake off the excess. They do not care who gets trampled under foot. Fiverr is not an absolute free market enterprise.

This is not the MySpace of business. 

Fiverr very much controls who gets seen. As you say, we are not employees. But it doesn't mean it can't happen this way just the same. 

Edited June 12 by rudyabel

[donnovan86]

34 minutes ago, rudyabel said:

Fiverr very much controls who gets seen. As you say, we are not employees. But it doesn't mean it can't happen this way just the same. 

What I mean is that you can easily stop your gigs, not offer services here for a year or two, switch to another marketplace and come back to start anew. That's what I meant, I saw a lot of people that thought they are Fiverr hires. And they are not. Yes, there are obvious rules regarding the marketplace, but we haven't signed an exclusivity agreement, we don't have to work 9 to 5 on Fiverr, etc. That's what I meant here. Obviously any leadership decisions will impact us if we decide to sell and continue selling here, but there is the freedom to quit. And as you saw, there are many veterans quitting here and switching to other platforms. 

 

 

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, dponzio said:

I wonder why then we are subject to certain forms of pressure and obligations that in certain countries (like mine) are not legal if you are not an employee?

Well I am in Europe too and every country has its own legislation when it comes to freelancing/service providers. Pretty sure my country has a different approach when it comes to yours. As a freelancer, in general, you create your own business and pay taxes for that, but you can have income coming in from a multitude of sources, including local. With Uber, you are pretty much offering services via that platform, yet a lot of people tried to circumvent rules and avoid taxes, at least from what I know anyway. That's why it became heavily regulated. 

With Fiverr, things are quite different, because it's just one of the many freelancing platforms you can choose to offer services on. And as I said, you are a service provider there, but obviously your country can impose certain restrictions/requirements. As we know, there are freelancers that blatantly try to avoid paying taxes, or at least pay on a part of their income. That's why the EU started taking action and we were forced to share our info early this year, in order to comply with European regulations. Pretty sure that's valid for all freelancing platforms. 

I don't consider Fiverr an employer myself, just a platform where I offer services. Sure, a lot of my work comes from here, and I am grateful for the 10+ years spent here. But am I their employee? Nope, I work when I want, I can take breaks if necessary, I don't have a 9 to 5 schedule on Fiverr, etc. Anyway, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but Fiverr are not our employers. They have their own employees for customer support, marketing, development, the success managers, we are just contractors. The term might change from country to country, but again, employees.. we are not.

[dponzio]

5 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

6 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I don't consider Fiverr an employer myself, just a platform where I offer services

The same is for me, I consider myself a free contractor with multiple income sources. And precisely for this reason, I am keen in retaining the freedoms and respect that I am entitled to. I wonder if some requirements in this and other platforms are 100% legally compliant with my local legislation. One example for all: the obligation of fulfilling an online order without previous consultation and mutual acceptance, unless you pay for it via a subscription. I am not sure that the EU legislation on contractual freedom would accept that. And how about the other practices that result into pressures for which several freelancers witnessed a loss of sleep and growing uneasiness? As far as I understand, the EU rightly began by looking at taxation, but the activity of online platforms may also attract suspicions in other areas, such as the abuse of contractual freedom and "fake freelancing", the duty of care etc. This happened with Uber and others already. It would be interesting to hear from EU legal labour experts about this.