Current state of things, Frank's POV

[nikavoice]

Shhh it’s a secret!

I don’t know if you noticed, it’s outdated. Oh wait, it’s only working against ants and cockroaches, not praying mantises.

I don’t know if you noticed, it’s outdated. Oh wait, it’s only working against ants and cockroaches, not praying mantises.

LOL, if you insist. I’m sure it’s strong enough to take out a praying mantis.

Anyways, you said Frank’s post didn’t provide a solution. If you read fully, that wasn’t his intention. Furthermore, I just don’t see how anybody can come up with a solution. Especially, when we don’t know how this algorithm machine work. We can only speculate! :woman_shrugging:t4:

[wolfhowler]

I don’t know if you noticed, it’s outdated. Oh wait, it’s only working against ants and cockroaches, not praying mantises.

LOL, if you insist. I’m sure it’s strong enough to take out a praying mantis.

Anyways, you said Frank’s post didn’t provide a solution. If you read fully, that wasn’t his intention. Furthermore, I just don’t see how anybody can come up with a solution. Especially, when we don’t know how this algorithm machine work. We can only speculate! :woman_shrugging:t4:

I think if we just pray to the algorithm gods we make sells right? Some kind of relevance to IRobot.

[frank_d]

Hello, Frank!

It’s always a pleasure reading your POV. When I first joined this forum you are one of the people that I admired and looked up to. You’re business savvy, you keep real every time, you’re humbled and of course, you’re a success on this platform. OK, in other words, you know your stuff, dude! 😎

Contrary to public belief (a lot of people think that since I am a PRO and TRS level seller, everything is coming up roses) I too am hit every time something changes.

BINGO!

Phew! I’m happy you pointed out this fact. :metal:t4: Many Sellers believe PRO and TRS Sellers are the cream of the crop and have magical perks that the rest of us don’t have. I remember when they first introduced PRO, it was PRO 🆚 The Rest. Ugh!

You’re one of the few PRO Sellers whom I see active on this forum. I appreciate the fact that you don’t sugarcoat and keep it 💯.

Question: Do you feel Fiverr is pushing cheaper gigs more as opposed to more expensive ones. What are your thoughts on gig pricing?

Last but not least. Eek, there are too many bugs in your thread. I’m afraid of creepy crawlies so I bought some Raid to clear the air. 😃

Shhh it's a secret!

Question: Do you feel Fiverr is pushing cheaper gigs more as opposed to more expensive ones. What are your thoughts on gig pricing?

Hey @nikavoice thank you so much for your kind words, your replies always brighten up posts.

Now to your question: I don’t think they are actively pushing cheaper gigs.

I am just getting a sense that based on what the algorithm “rewards” cheaper offerings right now may have a slight advantage, as they are easier to book, deliver and get the dough.

As I said before, I firmly believe I am biased, as sometimes when I am facing a slump in sales, it may just be because I priced myself in a way that I only appeal to a tiny fraction of Fiverr’s clientele.

So when things are slow for everyone, they are even slower for me.

As for pricing, I still believe you should price according to the value you bring.

Does that mean that you will sell more? No, if anything you will make less sales.

But if you price your gig correctly, you may end up making about the same, for less work, while appealing to a better type of client.

EDIT: That being said, I still need to figure out how value-based pricing can be translated into something that works in the Covid-19 era. Compromising on a daily basis and offering to take on smaller projects, is only a temp solution for me personally.

[wolfhowler]

Question: Do you feel Fiverr is pushing cheaper gigs more as opposed to more expensive ones. What are your thoughts on gig pricing?

Hey @nikavoice thank you so much for your kind words, your replies always brighten up posts.

Now to your question: I don’t think they are actively pushing cheaper gigs.

I am just getting a sense that based on what the algorithm “rewards” cheaper offerings right now may have a slight advantage, as they are easier to book, deliver and get the dough.

As I said before, I firmly believe I am biased, as sometimes when I am facing a slump in sales, it may just be because I priced myself in a way that I only appeal to a tiny fraction of Fiverr’s clientele.

So when things are slow for everyone, they are even slower for me.

As for pricing, I still believe you should price according to the value you bring.

Does that mean that you will sell more? No, if anything you will make less sales.

But if you price your gig correctly, you may end up making about the same, for less work, while appealing to a better type of client.

EDIT: That being said, I still need to figure out how value-based pricing can be translated into something that works in the Covid-19 era. Compromising on a daily basis and offering to take on smaller projects, is only a temp solution for me personally.

while appealing to a better type of client

I can vouch for that. When I first started Fiverr ONLY offered $5 gigs unless you were a high rated seller. When I upped my prices, wow, the difference in clientele was incredible. No longer were requirements left empty, angry people who were just angry, no reason for it. Just generally a more pleasurable experience, but as you say, sales dropped off and the slumps became bigger.

[frank_d]

Thanks @frank_d I happen to be one of those sellers that’s come back from the grave. I gave up using Fiverr after getting full time work again, now I am laid off due to the situation I came back. It’s been a massive learning curve even having experience from the Fiverr platform in the past. Trying to be “relevant” is incredibly difficult and something we can all improve on that changes week to week.

You have posted some incredibly useful insights that definitely need some processing and contemplation. How things move forward from here and how to go with this is one hell of a conundrum.

I have luckily kept my level 2 seller status (which was easier to achieve in the past than it is now) and brought my gigs back from the grave, however my average gig price is still $20-$30. I hardly get any enquires after a month back and fear that my prices are far too high, even on the ones with a fair amount of positive reviews. I feel like I am in the gap between being a meksell of $5-$10 and pro sellers with a $100+ price point. Do I go down or up and will changing my prices be a bigger kick than not changing at all. Such a big question.

I feel like I am in the gap between being a meksell of $5-$10 and pro sellers with a $100+ price point.

Why do you feel that space is narrow? That’s quite a gap, plenty of room to narrow your field of view and claim your spot.

Do you feel like your price point is not low enough to bring a larger volume of sales but not high enough to produce enough revenue?

[wolfhowler]

I feel like I am in the gap between being a meksell of $5-$10 and pro sellers with a $100+ price point.

Why do you feel that space is narrow? That’s quite a gap, plenty of room to narrow your field of view and claim your spot.

Do you feel like your price point is not low enough to bring a larger volume of sales but not high enough to produce enough revenue?

Do you feel like your price point is not low enough to bring a larger volume of sales

That’s my current feeling and gut instinct, and that increasing prices would somehow increase my credibility. I have no evidence as it’s just a gut feeling from a current slump I am in, but that if someone wants cheap, they will go really cheap and for the $5-10 option but if they wanted high quality regardless of cost they would go for $40+ and much higher. I don’t know, as you say, tinhat on and all that.

EDIT: Being in a price niche is great, apart from if that niche is so small it doesn’t create the revenue you expected.

[frank_d]

Do you feel like your price point is not low enough to bring a larger volume of sales

That’s my current feeling and gut instinct, and that increasing prices would somehow increase my credibility. I have no evidence as it’s just a gut feeling from a current slump I am in, but that if someone wants cheap, they will go really cheap and for the $5-10 option but if they wanted high quality regardless of cost they would go for $40+ and much higher. I don’t know, as you say, tinhat on and all that.

EDIT: Being in a price niche is great, apart from if that niche is so small it doesn’t create the revenue you expected.

OK i took a quick look at your stuff and I have a few observations if you want to take them.

First of all: kudos on keeping it retro with a screencast of Fiverr v1.0! It really brought back some memories.

IMO your pricing question needs to take a back sit to your services issue.

Your profile is not focused enough. It’s the profile of a seller who is doing this on the side. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. No biggie.

If I find your VO gig appealing, I will assume that there’s no way you have invested both literally and metaphorically on the voice recording craft, when you are also offering coding, general advice (?!), and screen casting.

Your entire profile seems like it’s stuck in 2012, back when we all did a bunch of stuff.

Before considering anything else, you need to focus on one thing you are really good at and love doing. Then plan ahead and figure out how many gigs you can offer to broaden your net.

Just my 2 cents. My opinion above is because you mentioned you returned because you lost your job. So I truly think you need to go all-in if you want to see results.

[wolfhowler]

OK i took a quick look at your stuff and I have a few observations if you want to take them.

First of all: kudos on keeping it retro with a screencast of Fiverr v1.0! It really brought back some memories.

IMO your pricing question needs to take a back sit to your services issue.

Your profile is not focused enough. It’s the profile of a seller who is doing this on the side. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. No biggie.

If I find your VO gig appealing, I will assume that there’s no way you have invested both literally and metaphorically on the voice recording craft, when you are also offering coding, general advice (?!), and screen casting.

Your entire profile seems like it’s stuck in 2012, back when we all did a bunch of stuff.

Before considering anything else, you need to focus on one thing you are really good at and love doing. Then plan ahead and figure out how many gigs you can offer to broaden your net.

Just my 2 cents. My opinion above is because you mentioned you returned because you lost your job. So I truly think you need to go all-in if you want to see results.

You make great points and it’s certainly something I have considered, I am good at what I do with screen casting (I appreciate that you enjoyed the retro Fiverr, blast from the past indeed!), I offered the other gigs as something else that I am also good at but probably less experienced in.

Voice overs come with the screen casting job so a no brainer really. The others, not so much. I have web design skills from the Open University degree I am currently taking, so another skill but then I didn’t want to go “all-in” because my screen casting has over the last 10 year performed the best out of any gig I have created by 10 fold.

After some advice about offering more more more just because I have level 2 and have the ability to have more gigs than other sellers led me to creating the other “random” gigs. You are right that, I need to focus on one thing.

[frank_d]

You make great points and it’s certainly something I have considered, I am good at what I do with screen casting (I appreciate that you enjoyed the retro Fiverr, blast from the past indeed!), I offered the other gigs as something else that I am also good at but probably less experienced in.

Voice overs come with the screen casting job so a no brainer really. The others, not so much. I have web design skills from the Open University degree I am currently taking, so another skill but then I didn’t want to go “all-in” because my screen casting has over the last 10 year performed the best out of any gig I have created by 10 fold.

After some advice about offering more more more just because I have level 2 and have the ability to have more gigs than other sellers led me to creating the other “random” gigs. You are right that, I need to focus on one thing.

well like I said, yes I do agree that you need to add more gigs.

It’s just that there’s truly no place for a “talking teddy bear” gig when you aspire to charge more and work with a higher level of clients. 🙂

You can keep the screencasting gig, plus the VO one since they are getting you a nice cross-sell, but for the other slots find complimentary services, or legit variations of your best sellers that cater to different audiences.

[wolfhowler]

well like I said, yes I do agree that you need to add more gigs.

It’s just that there’s truly no place for a “talking teddy bear” gig when you aspire to charge more and work with a higher level of clients. 🙂

You can keep the screencasting gig, plus the VO one since they are getting you a nice cross-sell, but for the other slots find complimentary services, or legit variations of your best sellers that cater to different audiences.

Thank you @frank_d I was just leaving my profile and gigs in limbo, hanging on to my previous success, your points have certainly motivated me to rethink what I am doing and “be better”. I can be better and I have just been lazy with it. There’s no such thing as a free lunch and it’s advice I have given myself on the forums in the past couple weeks, perhaps I need to practise what I preach a bit more!

I think time for some reflection and some overhauling.

EDIT: I was going with the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” approach. Perhaps it has been broken from a while without me noticing it.

[wolfhowler]

well like I said, yes I do agree that you need to add more gigs.

It’s just that there’s truly no place for a “talking teddy bear” gig when you aspire to charge more and work with a higher level of clients. 🙂

You can keep the screencasting gig, plus the VO one since they are getting you a nice cross-sell, but for the other slots find complimentary services, or legit variations of your best sellers that cater to different audiences.

no place for a “talking teddy bear” gig

Not sure if you saw this one, but my motivation for creating the talking bear was definitely alcohol infused. Probably not the best time to make business decisions.

So after a few drinks years ago, I started voicing my toy bear. It’s weirdly something me and my partner have kept up doing on a daily basis, adding comedy and joy into our life. For some strange reason I have exposed Jim, one of our many bears, to the Fiverr gig world. Take a look for yourself, let me know if you think I’ll even get one order for a rude bear to drink coffee and be cheeky on camera! https://www.fiverr.com/share/DmgdED

[pvitalsolutions]

Hey @pvitalsolutions thank you for joining the conversation.

I am going to tell you what I end up telling some of my prospects: I am not for everyone.

I am sorry you knew all of the information I posted above and so there was nothing helpful for you.

My position remains the same: I will never tell people to do a bunch of random stuff in the hope that something sticks.

I feel a responsibility to this community and my peers.

So if @insects44 ‘s post was the thing that helped you the most, feel free to reach out to your fellow seller in private so he can share more stuff you can try.

I am not operating on the same level as @insects44 so my insights have nothing to do with trying to hack my account back into existence.

I am merely making observations, trying to figure out my next move. I usually do that in private, as this is something for me and my personal brand to figure out, but this time I decided to create this post and sort of think out loud in the off chance other sellers could benefit.

Hey,

I am not blaming you at all. I appreciate what you wrote. I am just saying if you have any advice please mention that. That will help alot. Hope you didnt mind.

[frank_d]

Hey,

I am not blaming you at all. I appreciate what you wrote. I am just saying if you have any advice please mention that. That will help alot. Hope you didnt mind.

If you need help with anything, please feel free to ask and if I can, I will help!

[frank_d]

Thanks alot. I will appreciate a lot if you can look at my profile and gigs and recommend me if any changes are needed. Thanks

I offered to answer any questions you may have, not take a look at your profile and decide what you should do.

Those are two completely different things.

I am not here to offer arbitrary advice or spoon feed you information.

[pvitalsolutions]

I offered to answer any questions you may have, not take a look at your profile and decide what you should do.

Those are two completely different things.

I am not here to offer arbitrary advice or spoon feed you information.

Okay thanks. No need to be rude though. Thanks anyway

[frank_d]

Okay thanks. No need to be rude though. Thanks anyway

How was that perceived as rude? This is a legitimate question.

[pvitalsolutions]

How was that perceived as rude? This is a legitimate question.

Let’s just forget. I found it rude, maybe i think differently.

[frank_d]

Let’s just forget. I found it rude, maybe i think differently.

If you take someone saying no to what you want as an act of aggression, that’s definitely something for you to figure out.

[eoinfinnegan]

If you take someone saying no to what you want as an act of aggression, that’s definitely something for you to figure out.

Some people find it better to be spoon fed useless/obvious things than be told how their mentality and focus needs to change. Difference between being Freelancers/Entrepreneurs and Sellers I guess.

[loaloariad]

What a great and helpful post to read , thank you so much for the effort and time put into this ,in my business opinion and as a market researcher i advice you to start your own blog , you have a very good style of writing that is easy to follow and understand.

[frank_d]

What a great and helpful post to read , thank you so much for the effort and time put into this ,in my business opinion and as a market researcher i advice you to start your own blog , you have a very good style of writing that is easy to follow and understand.

Thank you for your kind words.

Writing is not my forte. But I will consider offering bite sized posts as I also find long form videos didn’t appeal to the community.

Still figuring out how I can help.

[danno1950]

Tearing things down is not the way to go at all. If I was you, I’d simply start targeting different markets.

100% agree with this as one strategy but also…

I would strongly advise not changing everything due to a couple of quiet months - there has been enough happening this year to cause every business to be cautious with spending. However, as the summer goes on, things begin to open up, the current unsettled climate in many western countries will dissipate and businesses will grow in confidence again.

To give some perspective, I have 6 regular US/UK, SEO/Marketing clients (4 on and 2 off fiverr) who have been with me for over a year with 3 being over 2 years, always ordering monthly with an order of between $150-300. They are in vastly different businesses yet each one told me that they have to hold off ordering in March. Two have since come back to restart again with a request for smaller orders to start with, the others are still holding off. Both of these have been to promote the significant changes they have made and the new COVID-related products/services they now offer.

My reaction to this has been to continue to do a couple of things for each in these months, to keep things we have built up going - about an hour/month each - which they have appreciated. If all continues to recover, at the end of this month I will suggest restarting our orders again as before with more targeted work for short term returns.

The takeaway from this for others should be that almost every business has been affected so looking at pricing and reducing how much time and effort you put in to each order (to reduce your cost and price) could be more effective than dramatically changing approach.

In this time where a lot of my regulars are quiet, I have been pushing for projects here and there, taking every inquiry seriously but not compromising quality. My listed price hasn’t changed but those asking for discounts or concerned about price were offered a couple of options:

• Translation without Proofreading included
• Splitting projects over a period of time to make them more affordable for the client, rather than a big cost up front
• Looking at what they really need to do now and holding off on other things
• Full price with an additional service - free blog post, press release, consultation

Basically being flexible around how things go while always reiterating that this is “at this time”, “in these unusual times” etc. How you word things, the impression you give of yourself and your service, extra communication (low response time for every message, thanks for ordering, I am working on your order now and will complete it by X, etc) have resulted in these going smoothly and the clients having an overall feeling of good service.

This has resulted in several orders that are quite large (mid 3 and low 4 figures) coming in which are still worthwhile in terms of time being spent on them. I also have employed a student who is working with me part time on some things, doing grunt work etc (not direct client work) while also implementing a marketing strategy of mine to directly target reopening businesses as things improve this and next month.

Finally, Fiverr has been pushing and pushing and pushing the platform to businesses for the past few months. I have mostly been dealing with new buyers from Europe and the US who are established businesses. Right now many are being cautious and careful with money but when things improve, they will remember the level of service and quality of delivery and will have every reason to continue with me rather than revert to their old supplier/direct employee. Hopefully.

I would strongly advise not changing everything due to a couple of quiet months - there has been enough happening this year to cause every business to be cautious with spending.

I completely agree, @eoinfinnegan. I think you’ve gotten to the heart of it. This is such an unusual business environment, it would be difficult to make an assessment on the basis of what’s been happening during this time.

[danno1950]

Thanks @frank_d for this thoughtful and helpful post. I’ve been experiencing some gaps in my business, and you’ve given me some solid directions to respond to those gaps. I’ve already started editing my gigs to improve relevance.

I also agree with @loaloariad - I think you’re a better writer than you might realize. You do have a clarity of thought and expression that I always find helpful and informative.

[nikavoice]

Question: Do you feel Fiverr is pushing cheaper gigs more as opposed to more expensive ones. What are your thoughts on gig pricing?

Hey @nikavoice thank you so much for your kind words, your replies always brighten up posts.

Now to your question: I don’t think they are actively pushing cheaper gigs.

I am just getting a sense that based on what the algorithm “rewards” cheaper offerings right now may have a slight advantage, as they are easier to book, deliver and get the dough.

As I said before, I firmly believe I am biased, as sometimes when I am facing a slump in sales, it may just be because I priced myself in a way that I only appeal to a tiny fraction of Fiverr’s clientele.

So when things are slow for everyone, they are even slower for me.

As for pricing, I still believe you should price according to the value you bring.

Does that mean that you will sell more? No, if anything you will make less sales.

But if you price your gig correctly, you may end up making about the same, for less work, while appealing to a better type of client.

EDIT: That being said, I still need to figure out how value-based pricing can be translated into something that works in the Covid-19 era. Compromising on a daily basis and offering to take on smaller projects, is only a temp solution for me personally.

Hey @nikavoice thank you so much for your kind words, your replies always brighten up posts.

☺️

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I hope people take this opportunity to ask a seasoned and respectable Seller legitimate questions. I’m sure others were hoping that you would’ve provided step-by-step tricks on how to skirt away from the algorithm to get more sales. 😁 I’ve stumbled across some sketchy sites and YT videos giving appalling rubbish advice. 🙀

Do you plan on having another Youtube LIVE? I missed the first one.

[frank_d]

Hey @nikavoice thank you so much for your kind words, your replies always brighten up posts.

☺️

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I hope people take this opportunity to ask a seasoned and respectable Seller legitimate questions. I’m sure others were hoping that you would’ve provided step-by-step tricks on how to skirt away from the algorithm to get more sales. 😁 I’ve stumbled across some sketchy sites and YT videos giving appalling rubbish advice. 🙀

Do you plan on having another Youtube LIVE? I missed the first one.

I have plenty of material left for dozens of streams.

Plus now I have some downtime that makes things more manageable.

So yes, I have been considering doing something more consistently, not sure if it would be more helpful to offer small videos with advice or insights and only do a live stream once there’s either a bigger fan base or questions based on what I cover on my “regular” content.

I also have another idea: dedicating half an hour a day to anyone who wants a 1:1.

Something like 2x 15-minute slots per day.

I can have an automated booking system in place, and if you want to pick my brain, ask a specific question or just rant about Fiverr-related stuff, I’m all yours.