The Uber Decision and the Gig Economy - Handle With Care

[misscrystal]

My behavior has changed a lot over the years. Fiverr itself has changed a lot over time, buyers are more likely to report you to customer service, it’s easier than ever, there’s even a “report” button next to every comment in a conversation or order.

I’m not against Fiverr setting their own rules, it’s their platform, but the rules have to be reasonable, easy to follow, and sensible. I saw a woman defending the new level standards, and even demanding they be higher for TRS.

Fiverr needs to do more to protect the sellers. The buyers are already protected well enough.

Fiver now has so many sellers they can make things harder for sellers in the hope of getting rid of the bad ones.

[fastcopywriter]

Fiver now has so many sellers they can make things harder for sellers in the hope of getting rid of the bad ones.

True, and if sellers got punished for too many “order Cancelled. Seller failed to deliver on time,” I would accept that.

I also accept that our placement on the search results is based on how many orders we get, and sometimes random factors. I accept seeing someone with no reviews o the front row to mix things up.

But this focus on metrics reminds me of a sweatshop where you have to produce X number of widgets in an hour to keep your job. That’s the wrong approach in my opinion.

[misscrystal]

Did some comments suddenly disappear from this discussion just now?
Sorry, my browser jumps to another thread suddenly sometimes.

[eoinfinnegan]

Eoin, people who are successful and make the most money in freelancing or business are those who make the least noise, go with the flow and adapt to the situation, whatever it is. You are one of those people, as is MissC, I am to an extent. Whatever happens, we will adapt, and we will survive.

Whatever happens, we will adapt, and we will survive.

Grab a mic @writer99025 lets be dueters

[writer99025]

Whatever happens, we will adapt, and we will survive.

Grab a mic @writer99025 lets be dueters

:rofl: )

[ghemachandar1]

Someone mentioned the UK employment tribunal regarding Uber and driver rights.

BBC News

Uber loses appeal against drivers' rights

The firm's drivers should get workers' rights including holiday and sick pay, a tribunal rules.

Essentially, what has happened is that the tribunal ruled that

“any Uber driver who had the Uber app switched on was working for the company under a “worker” contract”.

There is a bit more to it than that and I personally don’t see the case as something that will directly affect Fiverr, but I think it is worth discussing.

My own opinion is that freelancers/self employed gig economy workers need to be very careful about what we wish for. The points being made tend to focus on worker’s rights such as holiday pay, sick pay etc. What is seldom mentioned in the discussion is what happens when the employer might then decide to focus on their own rights and expectations as employers (if this does actually happen).

For example, at the moment Uber requires drivers to take 80% of fares assigned to them. This is one of the key parts of the ruling as it is seen to dictate the “employee’s” working hours. However, this percentage is only applied when the driver marks themselves as available for work. What if, after this ruling, Uber decides that as an employer, it requires its workers to be available for 8 hours per day? What if that becomes a fixed time on a 24 hour rota where they will be assigned 8 hours at any time of the day or night, like most taxi companies have their drivers on? Is that worth putting up with in order to qualify for holiday pay and sick leave? For me the answer would be no.

We are likely to hear a lot more about this in the coming months and as the Gig economy is still in its infancy, expect a lot more cases like this to happen. My overall feeling on this is that many people who were employees decided that they liked the good parts of being self employed such as the freedom to choose working hours and conditions. However, these same people are now becoming aware of the negative aspects of self employment and have decided they want the best of both worlds.

Maybe it will happen that a happy medium can be reached but I think we all need to be cautious about how this pans out. These rulings tend to be decided on individual cases and these can have massive effects on whole industries. The Uber ruling comes about based on a case by 68 drivers out of Uber’s 50,000 UK drivers! With that in mind, as always in Fiverr and other gig economy platforms, we need to take care and keep abreast of what is happening around us, while ensuring we have set up our own safety net should some such ruling like this take effect and change the whole way things work.

I’m not saying that things should never change, just that we need to be prepared for the consequences of the actions, as well as the benefits that are being sought.

I’m really interested in people’s thoughts on this and whether you would like to see a more employer/employee based relationship with gig economy platforms, and whether you do or not, why?

“any Uber driver who had the Uber app switched on was working for the company under a “worker” contract”.

Does a worker who switches-on multiple apps considered to be working for multiple companies? I think, this is an important element of whom we consider to be an “Independent Contractor”.

[miiila]

“any Uber driver who had the Uber app switched on was working for the company under a “worker” contract”.

Does a worker who switches-on multiple apps considered to be working for multiple companies? I think, this is an important element of whom we consider to be an “Independent Contractor”.

Yes. And this thought reminded me of that ‘exclusively on Fiverr’ which is handled as a hot tip (requirement?) for Fiverr gig videos being approved. I’m not sure if it’s (still) mentioned in any official spots, but if it is, they better edit that.

I think the Uber decision really should make a few people with palantir brains skim and adapt some things if they don’t want an ungentle wakening some day.

[ghemachandar1]

Yes. And this thought reminded me of that ‘exclusively on Fiverr’ which is handled as a hot tip (requirement?) for Fiverr gig videos being approved. I’m not sure if it’s (still) mentioned in any official spots, but if it is, they better edit that.

I think the Uber decision really should make a few people with palantir brains skim and adapt some things if they don’t want an ungentle wakening some day.

Yes. And this thought reminded me of that ‘exclusively on Fiverr’ which is handled as a hot tip (requirement?) for Fiverr gig videos being approved. I’m not sure if it’s (still) mentioned in any official spots, but if it is, they better edit that.

Lol! :rofl: Yes, they better change that asap, lest someone claims - but we were exclusively working for youuuuu…

That said, the UK law defies commonsense and appears to be the case of ‘Law yet to catch-up with Technology’. Like, a couple of decades back CEO of Bazee.com (then Indian version of eBay) was arrested as someone listed illegal content for sale.

[mroberts63]

The EU are quite clear on employment status.
Freelancers must have the right to reject work without any detriment. It changes the status of the service, for instance Uber or Fiverr, from one of an agent to one of employer.

Uber know they are in breach and have been making small changes to give drivers more control such as ilness and injury cover but it’s not enough to

Fiverr have over the years been skirting the line with how they treat freelancers but this latest proposed update puts them firmly over the line in both the EU and US

Constant evaluations is the biggest red flag, especially when it is tied to things like earnings and response rate - and in actual fact, Fiverr is worse than Uber in this regard, there is no real option to log off from the Fiverr system other than vacation mode or pausing gigs, both of which have a detrimental effect on your earning ability

Fiverr appears to want the best of both worlds, full control over the workforce while providing none of the benefits this requires - and this is what’s making journalists begin to take notice

[Guest logoeasy]

It is as simple as this : If a company claims that you are an independent contractor, then the company must give you the freedom of choice as to what work and when you prefer to do, etc. In Uber’s case they imposed a whole load of conditions and requirements towards fulfilling trips, that Uber totally lost it’s (UK) battle against it’s driver-partners.
Well that is Uber, a company which operates everywhere it does, in a manner as if Uber is the Official Transport Department of the countries where it operates. Without any respect for local laws and even ethics.
What Uber failed to see is that you can fool all the people, but not forever.
I hope Uber is taken to court(s) in more and more countries, due to it’s deceptive ways of managing it’s driver-partners.