A language question

[itsyourthing]

If non-native, non-fluent speakers are are having a conversation in English, for example, are people who share a native language better able to understand the non-native, non-fluent English?



I only speak English and know about a dozen words each in Hindi, German and Spanish, so I’m relying on you multilingual folks to enlighten me. 🙂

[Anna]

I still have problems understanding non -natives trying to express concerns here in the forum if their English is not the first language 🙂

[itsyourthing]

Reply to @annai80: Is it easier for you to understand natural German speakers using broken English or is it just as difficult?

[Anna]

For me it is just as difficult 😉 …but I guess it also depends on how bad their English is …

[mariaameen]

I think you’ve raised an interesting question. 🙂 I’ve never realized it, but now that you mention it, I do in fact understand the broken English of people whom I share my native language with better than those of a different region to mine. I guess it’s a community thing; you get a good sense of what your fellow native language speakers are trying to communicate because you know their way of thinking. I’m sure you’ve heard of the expression “lost in translation?” It’s easier for me to understand the non-native, non-fluent English of a fellow native because when I mentally translate the words they use back to our native language, I know what they’re trying to say.



However, I have had my share of conversations with non-fluent, non-native speakers from different parts of the world where the convos went nowhere. Sometimes, one just gives up trying to understand…

[Anna]

Reply to @mariaameen: Interesting 😉

curious to see what others say…

[mariaameen]

Reply to @annai80: Me too! I found your insight interesting as well. Looking forward to other opinions. 🙂

[jamesbulls]

As far as languages go, English is a nightmare. It’s non-phonetic, highly irregular, and there are exceptions to pretty much every rule. Think you’re pretty smart? Then explain to a non-native speaker the pronunciation difference in through, though, tough, and thorough. Absolute. Nightmare. Anybody who learns enough English to sell on Fiverr and communicate fluently for the purposes of presenting and selling their product should be commended for the effort.



If you ask me, the United Nations and certain other interested parties (like the French government) should get over themselves their language-hegemony and start promoting Esperanto as an international auxiliary language. It’s so easy to learn, completely phonetic, and totally regular.

[writerlisaz]

I’m absolutely a native English speaker, but I have a (quite) basic understanding of a few other languages. I find that non-natives writing in English here are often using their “mother tongue’s” rules even if they don’t exactly work in English, and that makes it a bit easier for me to understand what they’re saying and why they’re saying it that way. This helps me in proofreading and copyediting non-native English writing, too. I find it amazing how much of the world speaks and writes in English, being that we Americans are generally so terrible at knowing other languages!

[zeus777]

I’m actually an English conversation teacher, and most of my students are speaking in broken English. 97% of my coworkers are native English speakers like American, British, Australian, Canadian, etc. Funny thing is, when my students are talking to me I can understand most of it, no matter how broken their English is, and that’s because I’m Japanese. Many of my coworkers are having trouble understanding what the students are trying to say. My coworkers are usually surprised when I tell them I can understand.

Some of the instructors are actually good Japanese speakers too, and they usually have no problems understanding the students.



Here’s an example, I had a high school student come in yesterday, and he said he did a

home-stay in the states a few months ago. He lived with a nice host family for 2 weeks or so,

and he said "Everything was fresh."

Basically he was saying all the things that he experienced was new to him.

In Japan we use the word “fresh” when we encounter or experience something new.

We say “hey, this is fresh!” instead of "Hey, this is something new!"



I am pretty sure in my case it’s only restricted to Japanese people, if I tried talking to

other non-native people, I might have more problems…and I dot a lot here at Fiverr! 😃

[itsyourthing]

writerlisaz said: I find that non-natives writing in English here are often using their "mother tongue's" rules even if they don't exactly work in English, and that makes it a bit easier for me to understand what they're saying and why they're saying it that way.

That's what I was thinking. Combined with what @mariaameen said about knowing more of a 'culture' or typical ways of thinking might help.

 

There's also the issue of different regions or dialects coming into play, but I guess if you're completely fluent in the 'new' language, it may be just as confusing if you're in 'new language' head to understand where your fellow natives are coming from, so-to-speak. :)

 

[mrproofreading]

I understand a lot of Dutch (not fluent, but conversational). When I receive an order from a Dutch customer who speaks (well, writes) English as a second language, I find it much easier to edit their text, as I know where to look for the mistakes.



Long story short: yes it helps. 🙂

[sue_mcl]

I have spent quite a bit of time in China and working with Chinese companies, and have found that I can understand Chinese people who speak english as a second language, better than people from other countries… Possibly because of the way it is taught it in schools - or many English language schools following the same/similar curriculum?



I notice most Chinese people under 35 ish tend to use the same phrasing or way of structuring sentences etc. Over the years I have got used to it, so I can more easily get what people are trying to say.



I find I also often adjust my words to help them understand better too and that can help. Often just trying to say the same thing in a completely different way, might mean a few more words understood, or different sentence structure, making it easier to “get” it.



I guess this would be similar for other places, English curriculum in schools or ESL schools having a huge influence on the way English is spoken in different cultures (and age groups).

[fastcopywriter]

My issue is whether people are direct or indirect. A direct person will tell you: “I want this, but I don’t want that.” An indirect person talks a lot of fluff, they struggle getting to the point.



Here’s an example of a non-native English speaker that knows how to be direct:



"I’m selling smartphone accessories like iPhone’s or Android. Products, like lighting cables, chargers, power banks, etc.

This brand name should be easy to pronounced and memories.

I have products that have passed MFI, ROHC, CE,etc all kinds of certified and waiting for a name to be world famous.

Let me know if you have any question, thanks."



See? Even though I don’t know what he meant with “memories,” I know exactly what he wants. The only stuff that was irrelevant in his order was the part about certifications. That’s irrelevant to me.



Remember buyers, keep it simple, don’t confuse your sellers.

[fonthaunt]

Reply to @fastcopywriter: Now, if we could get, for example, a high number of those type of sellers who are native speakers but tend to write way too much to get to the verifiable reasons that they are trying to say what they want to say, we would have it so very and directly made. (Yes, I’m overdoing it a TAD and I’m also talking about myself! Wordiness was my middle name but my lovely mother changed it to Wordy Word Wordiness.)



Re-write: This could also apply to native speakers like me.

[willpower_hk]

Reply to @sue_mcl:



Businesspeople in China already have high awareness of the importance of English, so their English will likely be more understandable. Try walking around the streets and speaking with some Chinese teens (maybe this will seem weird…), and you may have some other opinions.



Every place has its own common errors in structuring English sentence. For example, in the China region, people may just formulate an English sentence like a Chinese one. But overall the sentence is often easily understandable.



“I today very happy to see you.”

“Long time no see”

“I need to join a test tomorrow”

“Welcome you to my house.”

“I wish you have a good day.”

“I very like it.”

[webtelly]

Is there such a thing as English “guilt?” I mean, I see these people struggling with English, and I think, why don’t they go to the version of Fiverr for their country? Then I realize, oh yeah, because they don’t have one. Then I ask myself, why? What a paradox, they want to sell to English speaking people, but they can’t speak it well enough to convey trust. That goes back to colonial times? Don’t call me names, please.

[jamesbulls]

Reply to @webtelly: I don’t think it’s a matter of needing a Fiverr for their country. The sellers in question are trying to sell to what is arguably the largest and wealthiest single bloc of buyers in the world: English-speakers in North America, UK, et al. Even if there was a Fiverr just for their language, they’d still be losing out on an enormous market for no other reason than their native language. Because the US dollar - the currency of choice for Fiverr - trades so much higher than many currencies in the world, these sellers can actually make a real living $5 at a time… IF they can break through the language barrier.



To me, this is a shame, because there are so many smart and talented people in the world who have something awesome to share but I’ll never know about it because we can’t communicate. For example, I’d love to learn more about Hung Gar kung-fu and iron-thread qi-gong outside of the highly commercialized options in the West, but I don’t speak Chinese well enough to access the cultural source (which is why I’m interested in Esperanto, but that’s a discussion for another day.)



So, English “guilt?” I dunno. Maybe just English “lament,” because the language is such a nightmare.

[willpower_hk]

Reply to @jamesbulls:

It’s interesting you want to know something deeper about Chinese kung fu. I bet you must be inspired by some kung fu movies. And yes, you’re right that you can’t really learn the essence of it through some DVDs or books from Amazon and eBay. The best way is to follow a real Chinese kung fu master.



By the way, I don’t think English is like a nightmare. At least it’s easy to learn, and you don’t need to memorize the “genders” of nouns.

[labels4you]

Reply to @jamesbulls: I agree completely with you. I am from Mexico and was brought to the US when I was 5 years old. So Spanish was my first language, luckily I was so young that I picked up English very well and my accent is near perfect. By talking to me you couldn’t tell I was Hispanic, only by my appearance, which funny enough, people always ask me where I’m from. Apparently I don’t look Mexican enough 😉 Guess I’m not the typical Hispanic… but anyways… what you say is true, English is a tough language to learn and pronounciate. All the then and than or there, their, and they’re is all very hard to explain to someone else. Spanish on the other hand I would say is the easiest language to learn (to speak). What you read is what you say, letter by letter is how it’s pronounced, there are no silent letters, but the grammar is harder. The accents are tough, I never picked those up.

[jamesbulls]

Reply to @willpower_hk:

willpower_hk said: I bet you must be inspired by some kung fu movies

Actually, I got started in martial arts when I was in the Marine Corps and learned the Marine Corps’ martial arts program. From there I branched into Chang Hon and Songahm Taekwondo, and dabbled in a bunch of other systems after that. I find that as I get older I don’t enjoy the hard-style, external traditions and am more interested in internal systems such as qi-gong.

[willpower_hk]

Reply to @jamesbulls:

jamesbulls said: I find that as I get older I don't enjoy the hard-style, external traditions and am more interested in internal systems such as qi-gong.

I see... Maybe you'll love Tai chi too if you're interested in internal systems (But Tai chi may somehow be a bit too "soft" and "slow"). Actually I'm seeing more foreigners learning Chinese - perhaps the culture looks unique and special to them. You may also be interested in the Chinese fortune-telling like "Purple Star Astrology" and many others (I don't even know how to translate them), if you have a love for Tarot card reading.