New update: Buyers will soon be able to quallifying canceled orders...but sellers won't?

[donnovan86]

2 minutes ago, alyssa_18 said:

if that's the case they its fine, but I didn't find repeat buyers in the article. 

So if they exclude first time buyers, then that means it only applies to repeat buyers. 

Also relevant, if the order is canceled by the buyer right after making it, that counts as an exclusion.

[zeecreations]

42 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

 

I'm pretty sure you're reading it wrong. They are talking about "Review Timeframe" not "Who can review".

Buyers have 14 days to review and new buyers have more time to review (not specified).

The context is "Timeframe" which you're clearly missing. I do want you to be right but it doesn't seem so. 

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, zeecreations said:

"Who can review".

I think that part is pretty obvious 🙂 

This screenshot is from the Review section designated for buyers, and as you can see in the image above it specifically mentions (excluding first time buyers). I think as long as only someone that orders from you at least the second or third time can leave a review when you cancel, it's ok. More or less, because there can still be people which were great the first time, but then end up asking for refunds starting with the next order. There's always that risk, then again freelancing will always have its fair share of risks.

Edited June 14, 2023 by donnovan86

[zeecreations]

11 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I think that part is pretty obvious 🙂 

What does "Review Timeframe" mean then? You haven't talked about that yet did you? 

You do know that on completed orders, buyers can review in 2 weeks only, they can't review after 30 days (in some categories). That's what they are saying. The timeframe of review in case of "Cancellation".

The info is very vague, let's see if they can explain better. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by zeecreations

[donnovan86]

32 minutes ago, zeecreations said:

The info is very vague, let's see if they can explain better. 

I received a reply. Let me just paste it here.

 

"Some additional clarification to help provide more context around these changes. This option is not available to all buyers. If the buyer is also a seller, the option is not available. This is to discourage bad competition. If a buyer is brand new to Fiverr, they will not have the option. This option will be available for experienced buyers.

Additionally, If there is no delivery in the order, it will not be possible for a buyer to leave a review on it if it is cancelled unless the seller is unresponsive or the order becomes “very late”. Very late would be 24 hours after the order has already gone late."

Another important point is that a first time buyer refers to a buyer who is making their first purchase on Fiverr not a buyer making their first purchase with you."

 

So.. if the buyer is also a seller, they can't leave such a review. But yeah, only first time FIVERR buyers..  And also, they can't leave a review unless the order is very late or the seller is unresponsive. So if you reply, and you don't allow the order to become very late, you should be fine. 

I guess they want to remove or at least push back in search those unresponsive sellers. 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by donnovan86

[saimii]

18 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Very late would be 24 hours after the order has already gone late."

Before that, In this case, there was a negative review that automatically applied if the order was late and Buyer cancells the order. 
now Buyer can write and pick stars manually. Isn't it?

[saimii]

2 hours ago, themarineiguana said:

You've been very aggressive, short-tempered, and sometimes rude to people in this thread.

Not only this but most of the threads. 

[donnovan86]

12 minutes ago, saimii said:

In this case, there was a negative review that automatically applied if the order was late and Buyer cancells the order. 

That was not available for years now. I guess they are bringing it back, and putting all the power in the buyer's hands.

[saimii]

3 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

That was not available for years now.

That's Interesting. Because in 2015-18, There was an option that if the order is late for 24 hours, They could go and cancel it may be with one click, and It Leaves a Negative review automatically. 
Never noticed that it was taken back. 

 

Well With the above clarification, It sounds fair and will avoid a lot of cancellations where sellers used to cancel to avoid Negative Reviews. 

 

[maulsmash]

The majority of my clients have been great reasonable people, but there are those toxic buyers out there that are just intolerable to work with and unreasonable that leave sellers no choice but to cancel. I always hope for Fiverr to strike a better and fair balance for sellers and buyers and this does not seem to be the case. Sounds like another way for toxic buyers to hold sellers hostage.

[terrygrantvo]

Just so we're clear here (because there seems to be a lot of confusion on this part):

When Fiverr uses the term 'first time buyer' they are referring only to people who are brand new to the site and are placing their very first order ever.

'First Time Buyer' does not ever refer to someone who is new to you as a seller. As far as Fiverr is concerned, there is only one definition of that phrase.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by terrygrantvo

[nickj2013]

8 hours ago, newsmike said:

You are only looking at one side. Would the buyer's perspective be something like, I ordered, sent requirements and received terrible work. This seller could not perform what I needed?"  As a result, the buyer loses his time, misses deadlines and is late to market. Does this sound like something fair?

You are making my point. Every seller who receives a cancellation blames the inept buyer who cannot appreciate the perfect delivery that was provided. This is the "infallible buyer fantasy" we hear about every day in the forum from sellers who, in their minds, only provide "immaculate, perfection" yet still suffer cancellations. It makes no sense. 

I think the issue that arises comes from dim bulb buyers. Who place an order, and are unprepared to provide the necessary requirements. For example, improper documents, poorly written instructions, etc. So basically, if you don't decipher their 'trainwreck' to complete the order properly, they ask to cancel and you get a bad review. Also buyers who return later on to cancel. Long after the order is completed. Either in an attempt to stiff the seller financially, or because they just got around to reviewing the order a whole month after it was completed. 

 

[visualstudios]

18 minutes ago, nickj2013 said:

So basically, if you don't decipher their 'trainwreck' to complete the order properly, they ask to cancel and you get a bad review

That's not the issue, actually - they can only leave a bad review if the order has a delivery (or is late, etc.). So, for that kind of buyer, just cancel without delivering anything, since you don't even know what to deliver.

The real issue is malicious buyers, or buyers who ask for X and when they get X, they say they actually wanted Y. Then what do you do? Either you revise for Y, at your own cost, get them to pay for Y (which they may well refuse), or Y is something you don't offer in the first place. If you don't offer what they actually want (because that's not what they requested initially), the only option is to cancel, you had zero fault, and you get screwed in the review.

@newsmike Think of it like this. A buyer orders a voice over from you. He gets it. He then comes back and says "ah, I actually want a female V/O". You can't do that, obviously. It's not something you can offer, even if you wanted to. He refuses to accept the order. You can't make him close it, so he will eventually be able to cancel and leave a review (or you can try to keep the order in limbo, in revision for ever, I guess). Now, this may sound ridiculous to you, but I assure you this happens. Probably not so much in the V/O field, but there are fields of work where this happens quite often, because they aren't as clear cut. Now imagine you have a bad luck streak, and you get a couple of these buyers back to back. It's not your fault. They don't read your gig, they order, you deliver, they want a woman instead. They didn't read your gig, even though they said they did. Or they are lying. Doesn't matter. You're getting screwed. You could have done nothing differently. Is it common? Yeah, sure, it's not. Is it possible? Of course it is. And it shouldn't be. 

You can say you don't care, and you'll take the 1 star review, you have thousands of reviews per month, it doesn't matter. But what about the guy that has only 10 reviews (as I also did, and you also did at some time, we all start from zero), that is just as professional and as good as us, but has just been at it here for less time. He's screwed. That should never happen. If the buyer ordered X and got X, under no circumstances should he be able to cancel and leave a review because he wanted Y instead. Makes no sense.

Edited June 14, 2023 by visualstudios

[donnovan86]

9 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

but there are fields of work where this happens quite often

Writing is 100% one of those fields, a lot of people leave only a few details and then all of a sudden once you deliver they remember you need to add x/y/z free of charge because they forgot. I understand it can happen sometimes, but for some people it becomes a pattern. And if they dislike they cancel, which is a problem for the seller based on this new thing.

Edited June 14, 2023 by donnovan86

[visualstudios]

9 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Writing is 100% one of those fields, a lot of people leave only a few details and then all of a sudden once you deliver they remember you need to add x/y/z free of charge because they forgot.

That's bad, but there's even worse. In that case, at least theoretically, you can do it for free anyway if the cancelation (and now bad review) would screw you too much. What in the case where they ask for something you just aren't qualified to do? If they ask for the impossible? What then? You have absolutely no choice. Nothing you can do.

"Hey, can you edit my video? I just need you to cut the pauses, and put a lower third, and improve the audio a bit"

You do it and deliver.

"Please revise, the actor should be looking at the camera and smiling, what you sent has him reading from the teleprompter and frowning. Ah, and he moves out of frame here and there, I want him in frame all the time. If you can't do it, I have to cancel, this doesn't work".

I'm not Gandalf. I can't do magic. And, unlike certain sellers out there, I never claimed I can. What then?

Edited June 14, 2023 by visualstudios

[newsmike]

59 minutes ago, nickj2013 said:

I think the issue that arises comes from dim bulb buyers

True some do, but there are plenty of dim bulb sellers here with faked credentials who accept jobs they have no idea how to perform, and then deliver crap results which lead to cancellations. They are a huge problem here as well, and that's why the hysteria in this thread. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by newsmike

[newsmike]

53 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

You can't make him close it, so he will eventually be able to cancel and leave a review (or you can try to keep the order in limbo, in revision for ever, I guess).

It is better to try everything as opposed to caving on first attempt. TOS backs you on this.  Order cannot be cancelled if work is as described in gig. Most sellers are too lazy or scared to fight for it and cave to avoid conflict.

56 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

But what about the guy that has only 10 reviews (as I also did, and you also did at some time, we all start from zero), that is just as professional and as good as us, but has just been at it here for less time.

You have to make policy to benefit and protect your best sellers. not your weakest. There are too many sellers now anyway, and as we have discussed, a HUGE percentage that are unskilled fakes. Culling the pack would only improve the talent pool. 

[visualstudios]

8 minutes ago, newsmike said:

TOS backs you on this.  Order cannot be cancelled if work is as described in gig.

That doesn't matter. It's not enforced. CS themselves will tell you they can't force a buyer to accept an order. This is fact. Doesn't matter what TOS say. Sure, you can decline the cancelation, buyer will insist, it will go on for a while. Best case scenario, the order will be open forever, under revision. Worst case scenario, CS will eventually cave in and cancel. Or the buyer will chargeback and that will be that.

Edited June 15, 2023 by visualstudios

[visualstudios]

10 minutes ago, newsmike said:

There are too many sellers now anyway, and as we have discussed, a HUGE percentage that are unskilled fakes.

Then get rid of the unskilled ones. Not the people who are skilled and are starting out on Fiverr. Or the people who are not starting out, but are low volume sellers, that don't sell 100 orders a month.

Edited June 15, 2023 by visualstudios

[newsmike]

7 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

That doesn't matter. It's not enforced. CS themselves will tell you they can't force a buyer to accept an order. 

Right. Like I said, you have to do it for yourself. Forget CS.

[newsmike]

7 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Then get rid of the unskilled ones. Not the people who are skilled and are starting out on Fiverr. Or the people who are not starting out, but are low volume sellers, that don't sell 100 orders a month.

There are too many sellers now anyway.  That is one main reason why I advocate for the pay wall in the first place. Retailers have known for years that there is a sweet spot of choice that allows a customer to feel as it there enough choices to offer selection and variety, yet at the same time does not overwhelm. 

Same goes for Fiverr.  The platform is far stronger if someone looking for a Voice Over can browse through a few hundred sellers once they have selected sex, accent, and price. Every one of them can be vetted, legitimate professionals. Now they have to sort through 30,000 people claiming to be VO sellers, and I can tell you that he vast majority have absolutely no business selling that service, either because of lack of talent, equipment, or experience.  But join as a lark and see if you can snag a $5.  Yeah that damages all serious sellers. And probably frustrates any serious buyer.   

[visualstudios]

15 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Right. Like I said, you have to do it for yourself. Forget CS.

You can't make a buyer close an order "by yourself". If they don't click that button, the order won't close.

[newsmike]

Just now, visualstudios said:

You can't make a buyer close an order "by yourself". If they don't click that button, the order won't close.

I never suggested that you could.  Again, you refuse the cancel, as many times as it takes. 

[visualstudios]

6 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Again, you refuse the cancel, as many times as it takes. 

You can. Then the order will remain in limbo forever. What I'm not sure is if CS can't unilaterally cancel it, eventually. If the buyer keeps insisting, I can see that happening. Otherwise, they'll just chargeback, and it will be canceled anyway. Nothing you can do about that.

[newsmike]

42 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

You can. Then the order will remain in limbo forever. What I'm not sure is if CS can't unilaterally cancel it, eventually. If the buyer keeps insisting, I can see that happening. Otherwise, they'll just chargeback, and it will be canceled anyway. Nothing you can do about that.

But both of those are better than caving in the first 5 minutes and not even fighting for what you deserve. At least fight for what you earned every last step of the way.