Beware of Big Fishes of the sea!

[Guest shubh2012]

This is my first post on new Forum.
2 weeks ago, I responded to a request on buyer requests.
The buyer (who is actually a 2nd level seller ) liked my samples and asked me to do the job within 5-6 hours and offered $10 which usually comes under $30 job but I thought I can do this work and can grab some positive reviews
. I did the job within 3-4 hours and delivered.
I asked him to contact me in case of any problem, he didn’t even reply. after that, as I was free and didn’t have much to do and just to impress the buyer I sent him a fully customized work and asked him his views on that.
Again, he didn’t respond.
After 4 days, fiverr completed the order. I asked him to leave some reviews if he liked the job.
He told me he would once he gets 5-star.
After 2 days, I checked his gig and realized that he has sold my customized video to someone else for at least $80 and received 5-star for that with my video in his portfolio.
I was shocked. I took the screenshot and sent him and asked him for the review if he is satisfied now. He simply refused and told me he would contact CS for this or leave a negative feedback.
That’s how these Big Fishes hunt on small fishes like us.
They will get their job done and won’t even leave a feedback.
Don’t get trapped. Be very very careful.
Thanks!

[jonbaas]

I understand your frustration. However, there are a few things you need to keep in mind:

1.) The buyer purchased your service. You willingly agreed to accept less pay for the same amount of work.The transaction was, therefore, fair and appropriate.

2.) Once a buyer receives the work they commission from you, it becomes theirs. They rightfully purchased it, under terms you agreed to. As soon as you delivered that video, it became the property of the buyer. It was no longer your video. The buyer was, therefore, entirely within their rights to turn around, and sell their video to someone else. It was theirs to sell.

3.) Buyers are not required to review your gig. From what you wrote, it looks like he was purchasing your skills in making that video, and he was planning to sell it to one of his customers. He chose to make a profit on the deal, and was allowed to do so. He also told you that he would leave a review if he get’s a 5-star review on the video from his buyer. Whether he follows through on that is up to him, but he is not required to do so. Reviews are 100% voluntary.

From the sounds of this, your buyer did nothing wrong. He chose to purchase your service, and act as a middle man for another buyer. He then obtained a profit from doing so. Like it or not, this is a fair and appropriate course of action in the business world.

This is not an example of “big fish/ small fish”. This is an example of business. Please do not take it personally.

[Guest shubh2012]

I understand your frustration. However, there are a few things you need to keep in mind:

1.) The buyer purchased your service. You willingly agreed to accept less pay for the same amount of work.The transaction was, therefore, fair and appropriate.

2.) Once a buyer receives the work they commission from you, it becomes theirs. They rightfully purchased it, under terms you agreed to. As soon as you delivered that video, it became the property of the buyer. It was no longer your video. The buyer was, therefore, entirely within their rights to turn around, and sell their video to someone else. It was theirs to sell.

3.) Buyers are not required to review your gig. From what you wrote, it looks like he was purchasing your skills in making that video, and he was planning to sell it to one of his customers. He chose to make a profit on the deal, and was allowed to do so. He also told you that he would leave a review if he get’s a 5-star review on the video from his buyer. Whether he follows through on that is up to him, but he is not required to do so. Reviews are 100% voluntary.

From the sounds of this, your buyer did nothing wrong. He chose to purchase your service, and act as a middle man for another buyer. He then obtained a profit from doing so. Like it or not, this is a fair and appropriate course of action in the business world.

This is not an example of “big fish/ small fish”. This is an example of business. Please do not take it personally.

I almost wrote this out of frustration and accept my apologies if I am offensive anywhere.

but you know how difficult it is to come out as a good seller here on fiverr and such things really hurts our business as most of the buyers go with the reviews.

Thanks!

[jonbaas]

@shubh2012 - The only thing that hurts your business is delivering poor quality work.

You are a good seller if you deliver your services to a high quality, and as promised in the terms of your gig. Your business is not “hurt” in any way if your buyer does not leave a review for the services rendered. If that is how you are looking at your work here on Fiverr, then you’ve got some reassessing to do. Yes, reviews are helpful, but the lack of a review is NOT a bad thing.

Just keep promoting your gig every day wherever your target customers are located, keep delivering great work when you do earn a sale, and be happy with whatever reviews you do gain.

You are here on Fiverr to offer your services and earn a living. Positive reviews are a bonus for work well done. Make sure you’re focusing your attention on the correct success metric.

[Guest shubh2012]

@shubh2012 - The only thing that hurts your business is delivering poor quality work.

You are a good seller if you deliver your services to a high quality, and as promised in the terms of your gig. Your business is not “hurt” in any way if your buyer does not leave a review for the services rendered. If that is how you are looking at your work here on Fiverr, then you’ve got some reassessing to do. Yes, reviews are helpful, but the lack of a review is NOT a bad thing.

Just keep promoting your gig every day wherever your target customers are located, keep delivering great work when you do earn a sale, and be happy with whatever reviews you do gain.

You are here on Fiverr to offer your services and earn a living. Positive reviews are a bonus for work well done. Make sure you’re focusing your attention on the correct success metric.

Thank you so much for your kind feedback. I really need to learn a lot from guys like you.

I am glad that I posted this otherwise I wouldn’t have got to know certain facts.

Thanks again! 🙂

[jonbaas]

Thank you so much for your kind feedback. I really need to learn a lot from guys like you.

I am glad that I posted this otherwise I wouldn’t have got to know certain facts.

Thanks again! 🙂

You’re welcome. I’m happy to help.

[emmaki]

This is my first post on new Forum.

2 weeks ago, I responded to a request on buyer requests.

The buyer (who is actually a 2nd level seller ) liked my samples and asked me to do the job within 5-6 hours and offered $10 which usually comes under $30 job but I thought I can do this work and can grab some positive reviews

. I did the job within 3-4 hours and delivered.

I asked him to contact me in case of any problem, he didn’t even reply. after that, as I was free and didn’t have much to do and just to impress the buyer I sent him a fully customized work and asked him his views on that.

Again, he didn’t respond.

After 4 days, fiverr completed the order. I asked him to leave some reviews if he liked the job.

He told me he would once he gets 5-star.

After 2 days, I checked his gig and realized that he has sold my customized video to someone else for at least $80 and received 5-star for that with my video in his portfolio.

I was shocked. I took the screenshot and sent him and asked him for the review if he is satisfied now. He simply refused and told me he would contact CS for this or leave a negative feedback.

That’s how these Big Fishes hunt on small fishes like us.

They will get their job done and won’t even leave a feedback.

Don’t get trapped. Be very very careful.

Thanks!

I took the screenshot and sent him and asked him for the review if he is satisfied now. He simply refused and told me he would contact CS for this or leave a negative feedback.

If you only asked once and didn’t pester him multiple times, then that could be read as a threat (and if you did get a bad review without further provocation, I’d be involving CS myself. If you have asked him multiple times for a review, that’s badgering though, and the buyer would be within their rights to report you and/or leave a negative review.

All that said, I tend to agree with @jonbaas. You under-priced and over-delivered here, and I expect your Level 2 seller doesn’t want people to know that they use other people’s work, hence the lack of a review despite giving good service. It’s not the end of the world. Just charge the price you want next time, It’s worth noting that lowballers are often not worth the hassle.

Personally, I would have laughed them out my inbox with a custom quote with my actual prices (possibly an additional “consultation fee” for the really irritating). I don’t care what people do with my work after.

[Guest silkroute]

I understand your frustration. However, there are a few things you need to keep in mind:

1.) The buyer purchased your service. You willingly agreed to accept less pay for the same amount of work.The transaction was, therefore, fair and appropriate.

2.) Once a buyer receives the work they commission from you, it becomes theirs. They rightfully purchased it, under terms you agreed to. As soon as you delivered that video, it became the property of the buyer. It was no longer your video. The buyer was, therefore, entirely within their rights to turn around, and sell their video to someone else. It was theirs to sell.

3.) Buyers are not required to review your gig. From what you wrote, it looks like he was purchasing your skills in making that video, and he was planning to sell it to one of his customers. He chose to make a profit on the deal, and was allowed to do so. He also told you that he would leave a review if he get’s a 5-star review on the video from his buyer. Whether he follows through on that is up to him, but he is not required to do so. Reviews are 100% voluntary.

From the sounds of this, your buyer did nothing wrong. He chose to purchase your service, and act as a middle man for another buyer. He then obtained a profit from doing so. Like it or not, this is a fair and appropriate course of action in the business world.

This is not an example of “big fish/ small fish”. This is an example of business. Please do not take it personally.

@shubh2012

On the positive side, now you know that your services are really worth a lot more than you have been charging. Your buyer did you the favor of market validation at his own expense and at his own initiative. Usually people charge money to have your service/ product/ startup validated.

Also, the premium he charged from his client could be considered a marketing premium. He brought in the business, after all. He ‘sold’ to the client, he negotiated the prices, he spent time convincing the client to make a sale which eventually trickled down to you, and in the process, he created more business for you. In a way he is your affiliate. It’s a symbiotic relationship. He will keep bringing more work to you, just concentrate on doing good work at whatever rates you are comfortable in, he is acting as your sales conduit, that is his talent, and he is getting a payout for it. Both win.

Services do not have a fixed tangible rate. It’s worth whatever the buyer-seller agree it is worth. It’s perfectly fine for someone to take a service, make value-additions and resell it for a higher price. After all, marketing and sales is a service too.

I am often hired by web design agencies, I never ask them what they charge from their client, or judge their skills. They are bringing in more business for me, I am fine with that. They are acting as a front for my services, they are bringing in more clients. They are, in fact, augmenting my marketing efforts. A lot of them have huge email lists and social media following, and I am fully aware that the ‘our services’ landing page where they are driving their traffic eventually ends up landing all the work in my lap. That’s someone doing massive marketing work for me without a formal or verbal understanding. I’m not complaining at all. They are my de facto elves doing all the hard work to sell my services, taking the burden of marketing off from my back, so that I can concentrate on doing what I am good at.

You’ve got your own crew now; Congratulations!

The shark is not trying to eat you, it’s trying to feed you.

[taverr]

As @jonbaas pointed out, the buyer did nothing wrong.
But had you provided him with the “commercial use right” extra?
If no, you can just say that clearly to CS and it can get your buyer into the commercial uses right violation. 😈

[Guest icewarm2]

Look at it this way, he gave you business that you wouldn’t have otherwise gotten. Would you be happier if he never contacted you in the first place? Treat the $70 you “lost” as a middleman fee.

[jonbaas]

As @jonbaas pointed out, the buyer did nothing wrong.

But had you provided him with the “commercial use right” extra?

If no, you can just say that clearly to CS and it can get your buyer into the commercial uses right violation. 😈

Actually, according to Fiverr’s rules, all rights are automatically included in any delivery, unless the seller states otherwise in their gig details. @shubh2012 does not specify any rights restrictions in his gigs. Therefore, the buyer automatically owned everything at the time of delivery. There were no rights violations of any kind.

[taverr]

Actually, according to Fiverr’s rules, all rights are automatically included in any delivery, unless the seller states otherwise in their gig details. @shubh2012 does not specify any rights restrictions in his gigs. Therefore, the buyer automatically owned everything at the time of delivery. There were no rights violations of any kind.

Who knows? The extras are now not shown directly on the gig page but in the initial order page. The OP might have it as an extra…

[sal_vulcano]

You should Over-Deliver but not that much.Always know the value of your work. JonBaas explained everything very nicely.

[pintoo0]

You must communicate more with that buyer before ordering of the order so that you can understand the nature of the buyer. If he is paying you 10$ for the work of 30$ as per your observation then you must understand that he is a clever seller plus buyer . If he is not leaving the feedback then why you force him to leave a feedback ! Just 2 times saying is enough ! These are some of my thoughts you think consider for future .

Pintoo

[landongrace]

What everyone has said is so true.

I have had several clients that are re-sellers (whether on or off Fiverr). Several of them have ordered around 300 videos. I provide a consistent service and our workflow becomes very efficient.

The down-side is that your re-seller doesn’t share the description and limitations of what you offer as effectively as you do. I just have to be firm with what my gig offers during revisions. This learning curve usually takes about 10 deliveries for a new re-seller.

In most large corporate creative projects, 80% of the cost of the project is acquiring and customer, selling to the customer and all of the endless production meetings. 20% of the cost is actually creating the product. I do it both ways in the real world and many times I would just rather make the product and take 20% of the cost. I end up making the same money in the long run.

I would wear it as a badge honor that someone would think enough of your work to use it represent them. You will be really successful. Just keep pushing. For some reason I can’t see your profile on fiverr. I think that after you have 100 deliveries on one gig, things change a little.

I busted it doing $5.00 gigs for my first 100 jobs. (When I started, we could only do $5.00 gigs until we got to level 2) I knew later I would move those to $25-$50 orders and it worked.

If you need anything reach out. There is alot of great people here that really will support you. I know they have supported me.

[landongrace]

What everyone has said is so true.

I have had several clients that are re-sellers (whether on or off Fiverr). Several of them have ordered around 300 videos. I provide a consistent service and our workflow becomes very efficient.

The down-side is that your re-seller doesn’t share the description and limitations of what you offer as effectively as you do. I just have to be firm with what my gig offers during revisions. This learning curve usually takes about 10 deliveries for a new re-seller.

In most large corporate creative projects, 80% of the cost of the project is acquiring and customer, selling to the customer and all of the endless production meetings. 20% of the cost is actually creating the product. I do it both ways in the real world and many times I would just rather make the product and take 20% of the cost. I end up making the same money in the long run.

I would wear it as a badge honor that someone would think enough of your work to use it represent them. You will be really successful. Just keep pushing. For some reason I can’t see your profile on fiverr. I think that after you have 100 deliveries on one gig, things change a little.

I busted it doing $5.00 gigs for my first 100 jobs. (When I started, we could only do $5.00 gigs until we got to level 2) I knew later I would move those to $25-$50 orders and it worked.

If you need anything reach out. There is alot of great people here that really will support you. I know they have supported me.

Oh. This is important. My re-sellers never leave feedback. Their user names are recognizable and their reviews can be searched in google so they naturally don’t want to reveal their sources.

[mzie88]

I understand your frustration. However, there are a few things you need to keep in mind:

1.) The buyer purchased your service. You willingly agreed to accept less pay for the same amount of work.The transaction was, therefore, fair and appropriate.

2.) Once a buyer receives the work they commission from you, it becomes theirs. They rightfully purchased it, under terms you agreed to. As soon as you delivered that video, it became the property of the buyer. It was no longer your video. The buyer was, therefore, entirely within their rights to turn around, and sell their video to someone else. It was theirs to sell.

3.) Buyers are not required to review your gig. From what you wrote, it looks like he was purchasing your skills in making that video, and he was planning to sell it to one of his customers. He chose to make a profit on the deal, and was allowed to do so. He also told you that he would leave a review if he get’s a 5-star review on the video from his buyer. Whether he follows through on that is up to him, but he is not required to do so. Reviews are 100% voluntary.

From the sounds of this, your buyer did nothing wrong. He chose to purchase your service, and act as a middle man for another buyer. He then obtained a profit from doing so. Like it or not, this is a fair and appropriate course of action in the business world.

This is not an example of “big fish/ small fish”. This is an example of business. Please do not take it personally.

I can relate with you, In first week someone also tried that. They asked me to do a logo which i did, they asked for a sample of the logo. I sent JPG image with watermark, he then asked me to remove the watermark he wants to see clearly.I asked him to place an order he refused said he will place the order once he receives the logo. Good thing i canceled everything.

[jonbaas]

I can relate with you, In first week someone also tried that. They asked me to do a logo which i did, they asked for a sample of the logo. I sent JPG image with watermark, he then asked me to remove the watermark he wants to see clearly.I asked him to place an order he refused said he will place the order once he receives the logo. Good thing i canceled everything.

Yeah, is sounds like that buyer was trying to get the work for free.

[pariwash]

dear how did you know about the cost he took from buyer?

[tenthtiermedia]

You can’t force someone to leave you a review, but I thought there was something about Seller’s reselling another Seller’s work as their own as being a bad thing. I could be wrong, but you could always contact Customer Service and ask them directly if they broke any rules by doing that. Also, you need to learn the value of your work. Never sell your work and over delivery for such a low price, when you know you charge more. Also, after seeing what the other seller just charged for your work, raise your prices.

[Guest shubh2012]

dear how did you know about the cost he took from buyer?

the minimum price for a 30 sec video on his gig was mentioned as $30. 🙂

[djgodknows]

[jonbaas]

You can’t force someone to leave you a review, but I thought there was something about Seller’s reselling another Seller’s work as their own as being a bad thing. I could be wrong, but you could always contact Customer Service and ask them directly if they broke any rules by doing that. Also, you need to learn the value of your work. Never sell your work and over delivery for such a low price, when you know you charge more. Also, after seeing what the other seller just charged for your work, raise your prices.

Once a buyer owns what they purchase, there is nothing wrong with them reselling it to someone else. What is wrong is if someone STEALS your work (without paying for it), and tries to sell it of pass it off as their own. THAT is wrong – and 100% illegal.

[nicholaszgb]

Once a buyer owns what they purchase, there is nothing wrong with them reselling it to someone else. What is wrong is if someone STEALS your work (without paying for it), and tries to sell it of pass it off as their own. THAT is wrong – and 100% illegal.

I see you keep repeating nothing wrong but there is a fine difference between illegal and not-ethical. Now if we would be in a country where violence is legal and hypothetically speaking (no hate or instigation to violence - just a thought experiment) I would kick your ass would you say I did nothing wrong?

[nicholaszgb]

@shubh2012
Leaving technicalities aside there is a bunch of things going on here that I don’t like but nobody forces us to be here. Instead than being angry at the money “that he stole” from you, consider it as an experience that taught you something about buying and selling and that if you don’t stand up for yourself nobody will. Also reputation here - as anywhere - has a high value and there’s a price for that as well.
My advice is something like that happens again is to ask from moment 1 what the video is for and if you don’t get a honest answer or if you feel he wants to resell your work just state clearly that the work is non transferable and the rights are not included. Also when you are offering something you can decide to ask for higher prices and work a bit less (you’ll miss order ofc) or work more for a lower AOV (average order value) but this is up to you, how much you can/want work and how bad you need the money… this is only something that only you can decide upon

Sorry for the late reply I was searching for a topic before making my own thread and got emotionally involved in the discussion. 😅