Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system

[williambryan392]

8 minutes ago, leonormiserol said:

there are only terms like "improvement in communication" or "customer satisfaction." But that is very ambiguous and we cannot improve with so little information.

I fully agree the advice could be more actionable. It isn't hugely helpful currently.

But it is more than we had before (but perhaps just raises more questions!)

Again though I'll say that the data isn't new, and we are still the same sellers we were last month, and the same buyers are still here.

Levels might have changed, but it's often said that you don't need to be TRS to earn more, you can have success as level 1 or 2 (old system), so with that in mind I don't think we should assume that these changes are going to destroy sellers. I'm not saying they won't, I'm just saying we don't know. I do still believe that at its core Fiverr wants sellers to be successful, and buyers to be happy, because that's how they make money.

 

[donnovan86]

14 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

you don't need to be TRS to earn more

You don't. The only problem is that you can't have 20 gigs anymore, they limited us to 10 as a level 2 seller.  I have 4 so I am not affected, but having no difference between level 1 and 2 when it comes to the number of active gigs, then all of a sudden 30 for TRS.. That doesn't sit right with me.

[williambryan392]

1 minute ago, donnovan86 said:

You don't. The only problem is that you can't have 20 gigs anymore, they limited us to 10 as a level 2 seller.  I have 4 so I am not affected, but having no difference between level 1 and 2 when it comes to the number of active gigs, then all of a sudden 30 for TRS.. That doesn't sit right with me.

Yep it seems a little odd, but I expect they are thinking there's going to be quite a lot of movement between levels 1 & 2, so it avoids the whole pausing / unpausing. I also do wonder if people need more than 10 gigs. I guess the 30 for TRS is catering towards those with big agencies that offer a lot of different things.

[donnovan86]

3 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

I guess the 30 for TRS is catering towards those with big agencies that offer a lot of different things.

Now we get into another thing.. Those sellers that say "I will" yet they are an agency. However they don't disclose that, and buyers trust them. Dishonest practice, very common. I am proud to say I've accomplished everything I did here without external help. Yet obviously people will compare me and other solo freelancers with "agencies" that are presented to buyers as a single person working there.. 

[levinewman]

35 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

About 3.5 years. I can't argue that the changes haven't hurt sellers over the 10 years you've been here. I don't know, I wasn't here, maybe everyone was worried when it changed from thumbs up/down to * ratings, and I'll never say the platform isn't weighted towards buyers. But let me ask you this... over the 10 years, and this steady stream of negative changes, has your revenue on average increased or decreased? Because if we're all here for revenue then that's what matters

Significantly decreased since Fiverr's adoption of AI. And when I say significantly, I was making 170k a year on Fiverr prior to the AI-Fiverr implementation, then dropped by 70k a year immediately after. So, yeah, I'm speaking strictly from a financial point of view.

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, vhskid said:

I'm saying that you'd probably be more critical about the new system if it would hurt your business or if it looked like it would be hurt.

Everyone's business is hurt one way or the other, to be honest. The change to this new level system was not smooth, there are still a lot of unknowns. For example I saw people still complaining about cancellations damaging their success score, even if it's supposed to be fixed.

Then we have you as a seller being compared to other sellers and their performance, even if that "seller" is in fact an agency. How can I compete with another writer that outsources 30 articles a day, and I write everything myself? Come on.. if you think that's fair... That's where my issue stems here.. but at the end of the day I know that we won't have that much control. The platform has investors, stockholders, they are the ones deciding what features are added and where the platform goes. I've been asking for a way to stop people from purchasing gig package multiples.. for years and years. And it wasn't implemented, most likely never will.

I get the outrage people have and I have my own disappointments with this level system, but at the end of the day I just try to focus on my work. I talked with someone from Fiverr, shared my feedback, and unfortunately I don't think there's anything else I can do. 

[williambryan392]

3 minutes ago, vhskid said:

Calm down, Karen.

Is that really necessary/constructive/kind?

I did find your comment a bit offensive, and I can explain why... referring to someone on the other side of the debate as someone: 

4 minutes ago, vhskid said:

who sees the system's faults with a broader, deeper, and more careful perspective.

suggests by definition that I do not, that I am in fact narrower, shallower, and have a more careless perspective.

I don't think this is fair or true.

[frank_d]

7 minutes ago, vhskid said:

 

 

Calm down, Karen.

I'm saying that you'd probably be more critical about the new system if it would hurt your business or if it looked like it would be hurt.
One's perspective changes when encountering a specific experience. Imagining being in someone's shoes doesn't equal knowing how is it to wear them. 

I'm not saying that you are the face of the "less critical sellers' movement" but the disproportion of the criticisms' scope of affected and unaffected people is very noticeable. Even if we exclude strictly emotional feedback.

Please refrain from name calling, this is warning 1 out of 1.

[dereck_s]

1 minute ago, donnovan86 said:

I get the outrage people have and I have my own disappointments with this level system, but at the end of the day I just try to focus on my work.

That would be a lot easier if the last 6 months hasn't been all bad on Fiverr with no work. At the end of the day I think we all just want a fair system and a chance to make money and I feel like I've been denied that on fiverr for awhile .... hence my bitchiness I apologize for.

[vhskid]

2 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Then we have you as a seller being compared to other sellers and their performance, even if that "seller" is in fact an agency. How can I compete with another writer that outsources 30 articles a day, and I write everything myself? Come on..

I wonder about it myself - if these profiles are internally marked as agencies and not compared to regular freelancers or not.

The distinction should be obligatory and public. There is the "Fiverr agencies" account option, so these not-so-freelancer profiles should be converted.

[williambryan392]

11 minutes ago, vhskid said:

I wonder about it myself - if these profiles are internally marked as agencies and not compared to regular freelancers or not.

The distinction should be obligatory and public. There is the "Fiverr agencies" account option, so these not-so-freelancer profiles should be converted.

And this is something we can both agree on. Same with people that use AI but don't mention it. 

25 minutes ago, vhskid said:

I'm saying that you'd probably be more critical about the new system if it would hurt your business or if it looked like it would be hurt.

Who on earth said it hadn't!? Massive assumption on your part. If you want the facts. February was my lowest revenue month for over 2 years, about 75% lower than my average month.

You're just assuming that everything is fine with me because I'm not slamming the new system.

The arguments can go both ways. Successful sellers can say they don't like it, and sellers that are getting hammered by it can say they do. That's allowed...

[newsmike]

1 minute ago, vhskid said:

There is no objective true / false when it comes to subjective images of ourselves.

It is @frank_d 's opinion you need to be concerned with. 

[vhskid]

22 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

29 minutes ago, vhskid said:

Calm down, Karen.

Is that really necessary/constructive/kind?

 

1 hour ago, williambryan392 said:

I find that quite obtuse.

Was this necessary/constructive/kind?

 

23 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

30 minutes ago, vhskid said:

who sees the system's faults with a broader, deeper, and more careful perspective.

suggests by definition that I do not, that I am in fact narrower, shallower, and have a more careless perspective.

I don't think this is fair [...]

Agree to disagree.

 

25 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

[...] or true.

There is no objective true / false when it comes to subjective images of ourselves.

[rudyabel]

muh muh moving on...

 

[williambryan392]

1 minute ago, vhskid said:

Was this necessary/constructive/kind?

 

I respond to rudeness in the same way I would respond to bullies: once, make my point, and then I'll move on and ignore.

On this note what was quite a constructive and engaging back and forth is no longer quite so constructive (in my subjective opinion) so I'll leave it here for now.

[vhskid]

15 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

35 minutes ago, vhskid said:

I'm saying that you'd probably be more critical about the new system if it would hurt your business or if it looked like it would be hurt.

Who on earth said it hadn't!? Massive assumption on your part. If you want the facts. February was my lowest revenue month for over 2 years, about 75% lower than my average month.

You're just assuming that everything is fine with me because I'm not slamming the new system.

The arguments can go both ways. Successful sellers can say they don't like it, and sellers that are getting hammered by it can say they do. That's allowed...

I meant your level / TRS status here. Since yes, I don't know your revenue stats. 

While revenue drop might depend on different things - not only changes introduced by Fiverr - the more or less drastic levels' demotions are big indicators that things might really go bad for someone during this year.

[vhskid]

38 minutes ago, frank_d said:

Please refrain from name calling, this is warning 1 out of 1.

Got it

[vhskid]

22 minutes ago, newsmike said:

It is @frank_d 's opinion you need to be concerned with. 

Thankfully not with yours

[williambryan392]

Okay you sucked me back in, but I'm off to bed after this comment...

8 minutes ago, vhskid said:

I meant your level / TRS status here. Since yes, I don't know your revenue stats. 

And you don't know my level status either or my success score- you don't know where I stand. You're making an assumption based on my views of the new system.

8 minutes ago, vhskid said:

things might really go bad for someone during this year.

Yes they might, or they might not. That's been something I've constantly said. The fear doesn't help. We have to wait and see what the actual impact is. Ups and downs are normal on Fiverr. For the data to be meaningful we'd have to give it a few months at least to judge.

Anyway, night all.

[emmaki]

I was of course joking about $500 gigs, but $5 gigs could be workable (and probably also get rid of gig limits). I know on Etsy they charge for each listing, but that's something like 50c for 6 months (note: I made that up, but they do charge for product listings).

In unrelated news, here's a GIF:

 

[newsmike]

1 minute ago, vhskid said:

Thankfully not with yours

Like @williambryan392, I too am replying once and placing you on ignore. 

[vhskid]

16 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

And you don't know my level status either or my success score- you don't know where I stand. You're making an assumption based on my views of the new system.

So is your TRS in actual danger because of the new levels?

 

16 minutes ago, williambryan392 said:

Yes they might, or they might not. That's been something I've constantly said. The fear doesn't help. We have to wait and see what the actual impact is.

It's easy to say "We shouldn't give into fear".

People have different life situations, different stresses that accumulate, different mental health states. 

 

 

Edited March 15 by vhskid

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, vhskid said:

I wonder about it myself - if these profiles are internally marked as agencies and not compared to regular freelancers or not.

 

Obviously everyone is treated as an "account", unless those people will choose to apply for an Agency. But it's clear that they compare accounts between each other, and if you're an agency or you outsource your work, obviously you obliterate the competition when it comes to volume. I am certainly faster than a lot of writers, but even I can't compete with someone that outsources to 10-15 other people. 

[vhskid]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

Obviously everyone is treated as an "account"

What is obvious here? Regular accounts led by agencies could have been detected and marked internally as agencies and treated as such when it comes to comparing with other accounts.

 

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

But it's clear that they compare accounts between each other, and if you're an agency or you outsource your work, obviously you obliterate the competition when it comes to volume.

I have the same concern, but at the end of the day, we don't really know what exactly the sellers' comparison means.

 

This is a transcript fragment from one of the webinars:
 

Quote

And when we're referring, about, to, performance, we're talking about our satisfaction, responsiveness, cancellation rate, on time delivery, and also now, the way you perform compared to your, competition. And like Mikey mentioned, the competition is not all of the sellers that are operating in the marketplace. We segment you according to the people that are similar to you to make it more fair, and more fair competition.

 

So this "fair competition" would be to flag these "hidden" agencies (at least internally) and not compare them with regular freelancers. 

But we can't really tell what's going on there.

 

 

Edited March 15 by vhskid

[donnovan86]

36 minutes ago, vhskid said:

What is obvious here? Regular accounts led by agencies could have been detected and marked internally as agencies and treated as such when it comes to comparing with other accounts.

 

Fiverr uses AI to try and avoid hiring people for these tasks. And I doubt they even care who is an agency and who's not. Clearly as long as an account makes money for them, it's fine 🙂

I can tell you for a fact that there are writers who on YouTube and even on their LinkedIn say they outsource, some even have their own outsourcing business you can see clearly.. yet on Fiverr they say "I will write", I will do, etc. And obviously you are compared to those because they are a seller just like you.

I know Fiverr has the Agency feature coming soon, but do you really think these people will admit they outsource and apply for an agency spot? Unless they are offered major incentives, they are much better off misleading people and competing against solopreneurs like mine or you. It is what it is... but the fact that now the success score is lowered because someone is outsourcing and you get penalized for actually doing the work on your own.. that's a whole new level of being unfair.