A Poll for everyone! How did you learn English and what's your relationship with languages?

[michmikaia]

2 hours ago, visualstudios said:

And French, and Romani, and Portuguese. All Romance languages are gendered. It's very intuitive... if you speak it lol

In my country, French is our 2nd language. Even if we use French for study(+15 academic years), I still mess up with genders and the use of infinitif verb especially in writing..

"Romance"😁. That's the reason why I start learning Spanish.

Edited June 12, 2023 by michmikaia

[leannelrivers]

8 hours ago, newsmike said:

And gendered words in Spanish & Italian. OMG, why does a chair need a gender that drives an entire set of verbs and pronouns?  Really?  "The" may be the simple best word of English, as opposed to Il, La, Le, etc...etc.... etc....

I'll see your Spanish gendered words and raise you German. 😆

[imagination7413]

13 hours ago, visualstudios said:

English is quite good for an universal language, actually, because it is so easy and regular.

    

13 hours ago, visualstudios said:

And for ease of learning, the phonetics must be simple, and the grammar has to be simple as well.

 

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(NOTE: Posts split, as conversation was getting VERY off-topic.)

Edited June 12, 2023 by imagination7413

[visualstudios]

Phonetics are one thing, how something is written / read is another. All those sounds are easy to say.

Now, as for the relationship between how something is read and how it's written:

Eau being pronounced O is normal. Same exact pronunciation in French.

TT being pronounced T, also obvious. (it's gazette, not gazett, so TTE is not pronounced T, TT is pronounced T).

Eigh being pronounced A is one of those English things, yeah, but when "eight" also has that sound, and it's such a basic word everyone learns it right away, it's trivial for any learner.

Phthisis is a very obscure word, and phth being read as T is weird, I'll give you that, but that will never come up organically in every day conversation. I can't think of a single word with that combination of letters outside of technical words (medicine, etc.).

So we have the GH situation, pretty much. That one is common, and changed how it's read depending on where it's placed in the word. 

 

[newsmike]

Edinburgh/Edinboro

[imagination7413]

15 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Phonetics are one thing, how something is written / read is another. All those sounds are easy to say.

Now, as for the relationship between how something is read and how it's written:

Nice breakdown. (Those are just two of my favorite memes on the topic of the English written language.)

Phonetics and corresponding lettering/alphabets is a fascinating topic, and a VERY deep rabbit hole.

My mom was an English major, and my family had this HUGE dictionary that had a chart in the front for how to phonetically read the pronunciation (prə-nŭn′sē-ā′shən) of words (wûrd). But for all she tried to teach me, it was thanks to Pokémon that I learned the 'é' is always pronounced a certain way. I do wish the English 'Latin' alphabet had kept the 'þ'. And as long as we are borrowing phonetic alphabets for sounds that aren't used in English, can we borrow 'ツ' too? 

[smashradio]

22 hours ago, newsmike said:

English is not the problem. It's the way people mangle and misuse it that is cause for concern. As to ISO's somehow relating to the bible, I won't even try to unscramble what you were attempting there. And I believe the Geneva convention prohibits you from trying to explain it to me. 

To be fair, English is one of the harder languages to learn. It's not a very good universal language because it takes being a native/fluent speaker to speak it well. I grew up with English alongside Norwegian. It's natural to me. I can hear one of the stupid contradictions or idioms and instinctively understand it because it's been nearly as much a part of my life as Norwegian.

We're taught English from 1st grade. We're six when we start learning it at school. When we're about 11, we're expected to be fluent enough not to need dubbing of children's TV shows.

According to the University of Bergen in Norway, 90% av Norwegians are completely fluent. We're among the top five countries with the best non-native English skills in the world.

If you walk down a street in Norway, you'll see signs saying "Sale" instead of the Norwegian "Salg." I just came across an e-mail from that aptly named airline Norwegian, tempting me with a "Storby-weekend," meaning "Large City Weekend." Notice the "weekend"? Even if we have a perfectly good word for it, "helg", it's much more natural to use the English word.

Now, let's pay a visit to Spain, where I live. Only 22% (!) of the Spanish population reported being able to hold a conversation in English. They don't want to or aren't able to learn it, and most of them don't care.

All media is dubbed, and if you're stupid enough to ask a Spanish person, "Habla inglés?" their default response is "no, no, no, un momento, por favor", while desperately trying to find someone brave to interpret for them, staring blankly into the void that is their glossary lessons 40 years ago... "Me help" or "Help you."  "O tal vez fue... Hippipottamousooo sii! Me remember tzis word, si si si". 

Not trying to make fun of the Spanish here, but this was an actual encounter with a guy at the bank who could only remember "me," "help," and "hippopotamus" from his English lessons. 

That's the only time you'll ever see me defend our friends, the fluent English speakers, because even with all the above in mind, there's no excuse for not learning it if you're running an international online business. Not even if you're scared to the point of shaking in your pants. Sorry. 

French is one language I can't handle. It's like speaking the Norwegian Bergen dialect, backwards. 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by smashradio

[visualstudios]

16 minutes ago, smashradio said:

To be fair, English is one of the harder languages to learn

Ahah, no. Not even close. 

https://www.farandwide.com/s/hardest-languages-learn-c25c2cdffbd247e0

English is very simple as languages go. Very simple and consistent grammar. Simple alphabet. Etc.

[newsmike]

40 minutes ago, smashradio said:

Not trying to make fun of the Spanish here, but this was an actual encounter with a guy at the bank who could only remember "me," "help," and "hippopotamus" from his English lessons. 

But that one day when a hippo walks into that bank with a cashier's check, BOOM!

 

40 minutes ago, smashradio said:

Only 22% (!) of the Spanish population reported being able to hold a conversation in English. They don't want to or aren't able to learn it, and most of them don't care.

There are parts of Minnesota, Michigan, Texas and Florida that are like that and have been for years. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by newsmike

[smashradio]

44 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Ahah, no. Not even close. 

https://www.farandwide.com/s/hardest-languages-learn-c25c2cdffbd247e0

English is very simple as languages go. Very simple and consistent grammar. Simple alphabet. Etc.

While there are more difficult languages out there, Sean Sutherland who is a senior lecturer in English Language and Linguistics at the Univerisity of Westminster would disagree with you. 

Why is English so hard to learn? (theconversation.com)

23 minutes ago, newsmike said:

There are parts of Minnesota, Michigan, Texas and Florida that are like that and have been for years. 

And I know some brits who think Americans have got it all wrong. Not even English speakers can agree on how to speak English. Not that it's unique to English. 

[enamcodex]

Bangladesh and my native language is Bangla. I learnt English by reading novels as well as from YouTube. Thanks 

[filipdevaere]

2 hours ago, enamcodex said:

I learnt English by reading novels as well as from YouTube.

This one was also trying to learn English.

[powerjinglesnl]

I am from The Netherlands. 

Back in the 90's when I was a young age I did not know a word of English, Only Dutch.
I picked up English at a later age. I was in a gaming group and 90% of their members were from all over in England. So not only it was online that I learned how to speak the language but after some years I spoke English with an accent, When I speak English now people ask me all the time if I am from London or Manchester or Liverpool or even say that I am a mix of everything it helped me a lot as I now work with 98% of my customers who are speaking English. Next to that, I am close to the German border so I speak also German like I speak Dutch. 
So now I have the advantage of speaking Dutch, German, and English at age 42. 

[samus_x]

On 6/12/2023 at 3:02 AM, newsmike said:

In my ongoing study of Italian, that is the hardest thing.  Not conjugation, because there are rules, but knowing if a teapot is masculine or feminine.  Then there are the hundreds of exceptions where a masculine word is still preceded with La.    

You know, I might be a tad partial here, but hey, Italian at least had the decency to follow rules while assigning gender to things, even if they got their own set of exceptions 😏 Ever dabbled in German? The gender assignment in German is like stepping into a whole new realm of chaos and confusion!

[newsmike]

1 minute ago, samus_x said:

You know, I might be a tad partial here, but hey, Italian at least had the decency to follow rules while assigning gender to things, even if they got their own set of exceptions 😏 Ever dabbled in German? The gender assignment in German is like stepping into a whole new realm of chaos and confusion!

I have heard that. I believe @leannelrivers commented along those lines as well. Lots to learn indeed. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by newsmike

[leannelrivers]

5 minutes ago, newsmike said:

commented along those lines as well.

The first time the German cases and gender assignment clicked for me, I felt my consciousness expand. I hear Finnish is a million times worse. 

[leannelrivers]

11 minutes ago, newsmike said:

Lots to learn indeed.

I teach English to German to pensioners once a week, it's delightful. When they use German cases in English (they're at the basic level) it's far more endearing. The call flowers "she", the moon is "he" and little girls are "it". 😂 Little girl - Mädchen. Any time you "chen" onto a word in German, the word becomes neutral. Das Mädchen - es - it. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by leannelrivers

[newsmike]

2 minutes ago, leannelrivers said:

the moon is "he"

And we both know that the moon is female and British. 

[leannelrivers]

Just now, newsmike said:

And we both know that the moon is female and British. 

And I know for a fact that the sun is a man from New York City - I've heard it talk! 😉 

[sharzilzofi]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:35 PM, samus_x said:

native language and English

English is not my mother tongue, but I have spent half my life studying grammar in English. We had to study more English grammar than I ever did in my mother tongue 🫡🫡🫡