Who is a native English speaker?

[contractchecker]

English is one of the official languages in India. We learn from books not from movies.

I know. You can still tell ‘Indian English’

[amritamazumder]

Hi @amritamazumder,

Maybe I’m not the most qualified to say this but still…

I see you have just finished high school, you have a long way to go yet.

I don’t doubt you may have, as you say, skills for writing but writing is much more than just putting up together ideas that make sense or develop a story or any kind of content. Writing also involves correct use of grammar and expressions that fit in, among other things.

The problem I see is that bulk number of readers are more frequently getting used to seeing as natural, terribly written content, not to mention grammatical errors, bad spelling and so on (this happens in any language, just fill in the blank). Don’t fall in this trap.

I have to agree with @newsmike about what he stated regarding capabilities as a native speaker (and may I add, in any language). I myself, although I speak English, I wouldn’t think, not even in a life time, in offering my translation services from Spanish into English, much less content writing. If so, I would be having a very, very hard time due to all the things @eoinfinnegan said in his comment and maybe more.

So I think that, meanwhile you upgrade your writing skills and perfect the language, it would be good if you could make use of a good English proofreader. With him/her, you’ll see how much you will learn from your own mistakes and you’ll advance in your own benefit.

Sorry for this long post.

Thank you for your suggestion. I finished high school 2 years ago. Writers here in India can think of providing services in the English language because we are in an environment where one NEEDS to know the language. Without knowing it, properly, our everyday business would be affected. I know I have a long way to go and I am not arrogant to say that I know everything so I constantly update my knowledge, read books, and practice writing. I have done few writing internships as well.

[daviddoer]

Thank you for your suggestion. I finished high school 2 years ago. Writers here in India can think of providing services in the English language because we are in an environment where one NEEDS to know the language. Without knowing it, properly, our everyday business would be affected. I know I have a long way to go and I am not arrogant to say that I know everything so I constantly update my knowledge, read books, and practice writing. I have done few writing internships as well.

I finished high school 2 years ago

keep up the good work. I think you’ll survive :rofl: (but it’s the only way I know of to get paid for reading)

[amritamazumder]

I know. You can still tell ‘Indian English’

Yes. It may be called Indian English (and I think it is). But, yes, as said by someone above in this thread, we learn UK English. We say ‘I am angry’ not ‘I am mad’ and use an extra ‘u’ in color. 😊

[amritamazumder]

I finished high school 2 years ago

keep up the good work. I think you’ll survive :rofl: (but it’s the only way I know of to get paid for reading)

I can never say I know even an ounce better than a college graduate and I never even said that.

[daviddoer]

I can never say I know even an ounce better than a college graduate and I never even said that.

haha, I was referring to highschool graduation. I didn’t graduate college.

[amritamazumder]

haha, I was referring to highschool graduation. I didn’t graduate college.

Ah the difference. 😂 Here in India we just ‘complete’ high school(It’s not even high school, it is referred to as ‘school’) and ‘graduate’ from college. I wish India would use the term ‘graduation’ for school passouts as well.

[contractchecker]

Thank you for your suggestion. I finished high school 2 years ago. Writers here in India can think of providing services in the English language because we are in an environment where one NEEDS to know the language. Without knowing it, properly, our everyday business would be affected. I know I have a long way to go and I am not arrogant to say that I know everything so I constantly update my knowledge, read books, and practice writing. I have done few writing internships as well.

I would love to meet you and chat! We could have a wonderful discussion. In English!

[amritamazumder]

I would love to meet you and chat! We could have a wonderful discussion. In English!

Sure. I would be delighted.

[fonthaunt]

And it certainly does not get nuance or slang. It would flag “Just sayin’” and have you correct it to “I’m just saying” which loses it’s meaning and charm entirely.

personally, I tend to avoid the use of slang in my deliveries… just sayin’

I couldn’t help myself :rofl:

it would be good if you could make use of a good English proofreader. With him/her, you’ll see how much you will learn from your own mistakes and you’ll advance in your own benefit.

That’s the tip I always forget to share here in the forum, but has been invaluable for me as a writer.

Not just for grammar, but to make sure my content is always factual. I ask questions to people with more knowledge than myself, or sometimes have them review my content before delivery. Although must be careful about who sees it, I don’t want the content leaking before the buyer has a chance to publish. I tread carefully about it, but make sure I did a good job before delivery.

Just a few reactions:

I tend to avoid the use of slang in my deliveries… just sayin’

I think this too varies by the type of writing and of course, always, the audience. My forum writing is a little less formal than my deliveries, but my deliveries aren’t like school research papers either. Since I am a niche writer it isn’t at all uncommon for me to use terms that spellcheckers don’t know and sometimes slang. I’ve also found I’m much better at niche writing than I am at generalist writing.

If I write an article about horses, I might say that a horse is “in foal” which sounds weird and makes little sense in some contexts. If I mention the frog of the horse, I don’t mean a 🐸 [This isn’t an argument against what you said. I think most writers DO deliver more formal writing, and if not, some should. Writing is a fascinating service since there are so many ways to do it!]

You can still tell ‘Indian English’

I have to agree with this too and it doesn’t just apply to India. Each country has its own patterns in English. That doesn’t mean ‘Martian English’ is wrong, of course. There is such a thing as informal American English, standard American English and highly non-standard American English that is spoken by subcultures in America. I imagine that there are labels like this for the English spoken in any other country.

[daviddoer]

Just a few reactions:

I tend to avoid the use of slang in my deliveries… just sayin’

I think this too varies by the type of writing and of course, always, the audience. My forum writing is a little less formal than my deliveries, but my deliveries aren’t like school research papers either. Since I am a niche writer it isn’t at all uncommon for me to use terms that spellcheckers don’t know and sometimes slang. I’ve also found I’m much better at niche writing than I am at generalist writing.

If I write an article about horses, I might say that a horse is “in foal” which sounds weird and makes little sense in some contexts. If I mention the frog of the horse, I don’t mean a 🐸 [This isn’t an argument against what you said. I think most writers DO deliver more formal writing, and if not, some should. Writing is a fascinating service since there are so many ways to do it!]

You can still tell ‘Indian English’

I have to agree with this too and it doesn’t just apply to India. Each country has its own patterns in English. That doesn’t mean ‘Martian English’ is wrong, of course. There is such a thing as informal American English, standard American English and highly non-standard American English that is spoken by subcultures in America. I imagine that there are labels like this for the English spoken in any other country.

I have to agree with this too and it doesn’t just apply to India. Each country has its own patterns in English. That doesn’t mean ‘ Martian English’ is wrong, of course. There is such a thing as informal American English, standard American English and highly non-standard American English that is spoken by subcultures in America. I imagine that there are labels like this for the English spoken in any other country.

I think that it comes down to NO ONE IS AN AUTHORITATIVELY NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER because it is different all around the world.

There is English that reads american, there is English that reads European, there is English everywhere around the world, used differently in each part. America likes to think its important… and I suppose it is… but that doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to take it as seriously as it does itself. Most people aren’t good writers regardless of where they grew up.

Being a good writer is work, it takes practice, study, peer review and effort. It comes from writing a lot, and seeking feedback\criticism, and really caring about being a quality writer.

What I don’t get, is if you’re hiring a writer, why would it matter where they grew up? If I can have a conversation with you, and read some sample writing, and I like what I see then you are a good candidate. If they would give you a fake sample (probably easy to vet between chat discussion, profile, and sample), then they can also also lie about being a native english speaker, whatever that means.

One of the best writers I know is from Egypt and learned English as a second language with grammarly, study, and practice.

(note: yes of course grammarly isn’t perfect, but the fact that it gives me more suggestions than I need is reassuring. prowritingaid is much cheaper, and I’m told better. only 50 for the year… a fraction of grammarlys cost)

[udimmanny]

I paused my writing gigs.

Which would seem to make this entire thread a bit pointless? 😉

Which would seem to make this entire thread a bit pointless? 😉

Since David is promising me jobs, I’ll have a rethink. 😜

[udimmanny]

I really do have a problem with misplaced commas.

Eats Shoots and Leaves. great book on grammar. buy it. read it!

I feel much more confident in my ability to properly use commas after reading that book (as suggested in this forum).

Eats Shoots and Leaves. great book on grammar. buy it. read it!

I feel much more confident in my ability to properly use commas after reading that book (as suggested in this forum).

I’ll check the book out.

Just be sure to remember that Grammarly is nowhere near perfect and flags as many things incorrectly as it does correctly. It is not an adequate substitute for human proofreading.

I know about its limitations, it’s just a bit convenient. I checked out the other tool, and it appears way cooler.

That’s the tip I always forget to share here in the forum, but has been invaluable for me as a writer.

Not just for grammar, but to make sure my content is always factual. I ask questions to people with more knowledge than myself, or sometimes have them review my content before delivery. Although must be careful about who sees it, I don’t want the content leaking before the buyer has a chance to publish. I tread carefully about it, but make sure I did a good job before delivery.

I never did this. I’m glad I made this post, I’ve learned so much in 48 hours.

My honest opinion is that the most common mistake sellers make is that they focus on things they cannot change. Fiverr’s algorithm, picky clients, the new Fiverr Pro thingy right in the face, Illuminati, the conspiracy created to make them fail at life etc. Time wasted with things we can’t control (or imaginary) that could have been used to improve the only thing we control: OURSELVES.

You should write a Brian Tracy kinda book. I get you loud and clear. As for the Algorithm, I think I figured out how it works.

I think that it comes down to NO ONE IS AN AUTHORITATIVELY NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER because it is different all around the world.

That’s a bold statement up there, obviously, Queen Elizabeth woudn’t wanna hear that.

I would love to meet you and chat! We could have a wonderful discussion. In English!

In the end, this thread could spin off something quite beautiful.

I’m not sure what the exact problem was, but the oldest boy’s math teacher thought that the kid was a special needs child. That’s how bad the problem was. The boy was actually very intelligent and great at math, he just couldn’t understand Australian English (and, because English is one of the official languages in Nigeria, the children didn’t get any language lessons before they were enrolled into Australian school).

Do you think that a difference in intonation would create such a huge problem, or could it have been something else, too?

I watched an Indian Movies days back, and it focused on Geniuses who had issues recognizing alphabets; hence they couldn’t learn to read and write as quickly as their peers, but they were immensely gifted in other areas.

I think the condition is called Dyslexia. Alternatively, it could just have been the Australian intonation.

I couldn’t reply anymore last night. Fiverr said I had to wait for 12 hours.

[amritamazumder]

Eats Shoots and Leaves. great book on grammar. buy it. read it!

I feel much more confident in my ability to properly use commas after reading that book (as suggested in this forum).

I’ll check the book out.

Just be sure to remember that Grammarly is nowhere near perfect and flags as many things incorrectly as it does correctly. It is not an adequate substitute for human proofreading.

I know about its limitations, it’s just a bit convenient. I checked out the other tool, and it appears way cooler.

That’s the tip I always forget to share here in the forum, but has been invaluable for me as a writer.

Not just for grammar, but to make sure my content is always factual. I ask questions to people with more knowledge than myself, or sometimes have them review my content before delivery. Although must be careful about who sees it, I don’t want the content leaking before the buyer has a chance to publish. I tread carefully about it, but make sure I did a good job before delivery.

I never did this. I’m glad I made this post, I’ve learned so much in 48 hours.

My honest opinion is that the most common mistake sellers make is that they focus on things they cannot change. Fiverr’s algorithm, picky clients, the new Fiverr Pro thingy right in the face, Illuminati, the conspiracy created to make them fail at life etc. Time wasted with things we can’t control (or imaginary) that could have been used to improve the only thing we control: OURSELVES.

You should write a Brian Tracy kinda book. I get you loud and clear. As for the Algorithm, I think I figured out how it works.

I think that it comes down to NO ONE IS AN AUTHORITATIVELY NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER because it is different all around the world.

That’s a bold statement up there, obviously, Queen Elizabeth woudn’t wanna hear that.

I would love to meet you and chat! We could have a wonderful discussion. In English!

In the end, this thread could spin off something quite beautiful.

I’m not sure what the exact problem was, but the oldest boy’s math teacher thought that the kid was a special needs child. That’s how bad the problem was. The boy was actually very intelligent and great at math, he just couldn’t understand Australian English (and, because English is one of the official languages in Nigeria, the children didn’t get any language lessons before they were enrolled into Australian school).

Do you think that a difference in intonation would create such a huge problem, or could it have been something else, too?

I watched an Indian Movies days back, and it focused on Geniuses who had issues recognizing alphabets; hence they couldn’t learn to read and write as quickly as their peers, but they were immensely gifted in other areas.

I think the condition is called Dyslexia. Alternatively, it could just have been the Australian intonation.

I couldn’t reply anymore last night. Fiverr said I had to wait for 12 hours.

I watched an Indian Movies days back, and it focused on Geniuses who had issues recognizing alphabets; hence they couldn’t learn to read and write as quickly as their peers, but they were immensely gifted in other areas.

I think the condition is called Dyslexia.

Taare Zameen par(translates to stars on land).

[udimmanny]

I watched an Indian Movies days back, and it focused on Geniuses who had issues recognizing alphabets; hence they couldn’t learn to read and write as quickly as their peers, but they were immensely gifted in other areas.

I think the condition is called Dyslexia.

Taare Zameen par(translates to stars on land).

I really enjoyed the Movie. I have a friend like that. He is not an academic Genius, but he is very creative and self-reliant in ways beyond us. The movie helped me appreciate him more. I use to think he wasn’t book smart because he wasn’t studying hard enough. Now I know better.

[newsmike]

I know. You can still tell ‘Indian English’

I know. You can still tell ‘Indian English’

Correct. The question is not whether someone speaks English, as much as whether they speak it in a manner that completely passes as native and natural to another native speaker. You can generally pick this up in just a couple of sentences. I’m sure no matter how long I studied Hindi, to a native, they would immediately pick up the cues from both accent as well as all the small mistakes that result from “studying” a language as opposed to being raised in it from birth.

The ear will pick up the tiniest subtleties and flag them. Here in the US we even kid our Canadian friends as to how they pronounce “about”. If you don’t know, they say “a-boot.”

[contractchecker]

I know. You can still tell ‘Indian English’

Correct. The question is not whether someone speaks English, as much as whether they speak it in a manner that completely passes as native and natural to another native speaker. You can generally pick this up in just a couple of sentences. I’m sure no matter how long I studied Hindi, to a native, they would immediately pick up the cues from both accent as well as all the small mistakes that result from “studying” a language as opposed to being raised in it from birth.

The ear will pick up the tiniest subtleties and flag them. Here in the US we even kid our Canadian friends as to how they pronounce “about”. If you don’t know, they say “a-boot.”

Yes of course - I know that about Canadians!

I can easily tell the difference between a NZ and an Australian accent!!!

But for me on Fiverr, that is not the question. The question is ‘Can I write stuff in English that will sell on the International Market? And written international marketing English tends to be American English!’

[maitasun]

Yes of course - I know that about Canadians!

I can easily tell the difference between a NZ and an Australian accent!!!

But for me on Fiverr, that is not the question. The question is ‘Can I write stuff in English that will sell on the International Market? And written international marketing English tends to be American English!’

HI @contractchecker

I would say that language construction and thought structure are the keywords that differentiate a native from a non native speaker.

I don’t say non natives can’t do excelent writing, of course they can but that takes time and plenty of knowledge and refinement. Non natives could be having a hard time for it doesn’t come to them naturally and will normally tend to write in a very rigid way or in the way they learned whatever language they’re writing in. This applies to any language

In your case, whether you consider yourself a native or not, I think for you to be in a safe zone, the best could be trying to write as neutral as possible.

Edit: People tend to confuse native with bilingual

[catwriter]

HI @contractchecker

I would say that language construction and thought structure are the keywords that differentiate a native from a non native speaker.

I don’t say non natives can’t do excelent writing, of course they can but that takes time and plenty of knowledge and refinement. Non natives could be having a hard time for it doesn’t come to them naturally and will normally tend to write in a very rigid way or in the way they learned whatever language they’re writing in. This applies to any language

In your case, whether you consider yourself a native or not, I think for you to be in a safe zone, the best could be trying to write as neutral as possible.

Edit: People tend to confuse native with bilingual

People tend to confuse native with bilingual

Especially when it says ‘native or bilingual’ on a Fiverr profile.

[maitasun]

HI @contractchecker

I would say that language construction and thought structure are the keywords that differentiate a native from a non native speaker.

I don’t say non natives can’t do excelent writing, of course they can but that takes time and plenty of knowledge and refinement. Non natives could be having a hard time for it doesn’t come to them naturally and will normally tend to write in a very rigid way or in the way they learned whatever language they’re writing in. This applies to any language

In your case, whether you consider yourself a native or not, I think for you to be in a safe zone, the best could be trying to write as neutral as possible.

Edit: People tend to confuse native with bilingual

excelent writing

And this is a perfect example of what I’m trying to say! BTW, I’ll leave as it is.

Although I know it has to be spelled with double L and I re-read before publishing my comment, my mind tricked me and I skipped it. Why? Simple. In Spanish it is spelled with just one L so this type of details go underneath without being quickly noticed and rectified because for my brain, it’s natural to write it this way at first shot.

Anyway, sorry the spelling mistake 😉

[maitasun]

People tend to confuse native with bilingual

Especially when it says ‘native or bilingual’ on a Fiverr profile.

Especially when it says ‘native or bilingual’ on a Fiverr profile.

I don’t know you but I don’t have the “or” option, just “Native/Bilingual” :thinking:

[catwriter]

Especially when it says ‘native or bilingual’ on a Fiverr profile.

I don’t know you but I don’t have the “or” option, just “Native/Bilingual” :thinking:

It could be Native/Bilingual, I’m not sure, and Fiverr isn’t working right now, so I can’t confirm it.

EDIT: It’s working now. You’re right, it’s Native/Bilingual.

Native/Bilingual could really make people think that it’s pretty much the same thing (especially if they’re not as bilingual as they think they are).

[maitasun]

It could be Native/Bilingual, I’m not sure, and Fiverr isn’t working right now, so I can’t confirm it.

EDIT: It’s working now. You’re right, it’s Native/Bilingual.

Native/Bilingual could really make people think that it’s pretty much the same thing (especially if they’re not as bilingual as they think they are).

Native/Bilingual could really make people think that it’s pretty much the same thing (especially if they’re not as bilingual as they think they are).

You’re right, this is something Fiverr should be considering changing as soon as possible, giving users to choose only one of them.

[wooden_fish]

I really do have a problem with misplaced commas.

Eats Shoots and Leaves. great book on grammar. buy it. read it!

I feel much more confident in my ability to properly use commas after reading that book (as suggested in this forum).

Eats Shoots and Leaves. great book on grammar. buy it. read it!

Never heard of it but sounds like a clever name. Is it non-fiction on pandas or a murder mystery?

I’ll hire you as my human proofreader, what’s your rate? I really do have a problem with misplaced commas.

@udimmanny Not sure human proofreader is a title I want to have; we’ll need another name. Message me over on the marketplace and we can chat about this.

Great points all around, everyone. This is a good discussion!

[daviddoer]

Eats Shoots and Leaves. great book on grammar. buy it. read it!

Never heard of it but sounds like a clever name. Is it non-fiction on pandas or a murder mystery?

I’ll hire you as my human proofreader, what’s your rate? I really do have a problem with misplaced commas.

@udimmanny Not sure human proofreader is a title I want to have; we’ll need another name. Message me over on the marketplace and we can chat about this.

Great points all around, everyone. This is a good discussion!

Never heard of it but sounds like a clever name. Is it non-fiction on pandas or a murder mystery?

It’s a book about grammar. and it’s amazing!