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williambryan392
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Posts posted by williambryan392
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23 minutes ago, zerlina84 said:
I truly believe we overestimate the algorithm.
Perhaps! There's no way to know of course.
23 minutes ago, zerlina84 said:I don’t think any machine is smart enough to have ALL that in consideration.
That's where I'd disagree. In this thread we've maybe discussed dozens, or perhaps over a hundred different things (data points) that can impact score. Let's say though Fiverr looks at a 1000 different data points (I'm purely guessing at a number).
Compare that to algorithms that analyze financial markets and might process millions of transactions and signals in real time to make predictions or execute trades. That's a lot more than a 1000. Or big data analytics where there are algorithms that are designed to get insights from massive datasets. These datasets can contain billions to trillions of data points, covering everything from internet search queries to transactions across global financial markets to the weather. Or there's OpenAI, or BERT by Google which processes and learns from such a crazy amount of data, potentially even billions of data points (e.g., words, sentences) to train their parameters.
There is definitely the tech/machines/capabilities to do this on Fiverr. Now whether they are doing it or not, or doing it well is another question. But for a company that's worth just under a billion USD now, or was close to being worth $12 billion USD at its peak, I really don't think it's far fetched that they would have the resources or skills to build a system that considers hundreds or even thousands of data points to compare sellers to one another, and match sellers with buyers effectively.
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Just now, donnovan86 said:
Does wonders for your mental health.
Massive agree! That's why I stopped looking at the competition a while ago. It stressed me out!
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2 minutes ago, farshad19rodar said:
Is the AI going to read through all our chats?🤨
Maybe, maybe not. If you were Fiverr, and you could do this, you probably would as it's yet another data point to help compare you against hundreds/thousands/millions of sellers.
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1 minute ago, donnovan86 said:
just work the best I can to assist my clients.
This is all you can do I think. That's my approach.
2 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:However, that doesn't show that autocomplete orders are bad for you.
Not directly no, but indirectly if your competition is getting manually accepted orders then they could be.
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3 minutes ago, farshad19rodar said:
My Success score dropped from 9 to 8 before I delivered an order!! Now that I've delivered an order and received a 5-star rating, do I expect it to go up again?
Maybe, maybe not, what if another seller that you're compared against has delivered two orders in the same period, or quicker, or left higher reviews, or their communication was judged to be better, or they sold more gig extras. You might have done well on your order, perhaps the competition did better.
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3 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:
I don't think autocompletes are the problem.
Fiverr definitely values manually accepted/completed over auto completed, the email made that clear (I wish I could find it!), and it doesn't surprise me, it kinda makes sense, but it is just one of many, many things they look at I think. Like you a lot of my orders autocomplete.
5 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:The issue is when/if they leave a bad private review.
This is definitely an issue, and probably amongst the most important, but also one of many that may impact I think.
What if an order auto completes but the last messages in the chat from the buyer is 'I love this, you're brilliant, thank you!', and you reply, 'my pleasure, it was great to work with you, let me know if I can help with anything else'. Does Fiverr not look at that as well? I'm not saying they do, but I think it's very feasible that they do and this is just another data point.
I think one of the main problems that people are wrestling with re this new system is that we're trying to find the key things that will make us successful on Fiverr, and I think it is so multi-faceted, there isn't one thing that makes or breaks.
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43 minutes ago, jonbaas said:
So, NOW we ARE penalized if an order autocompletes, and no reviews are left?
Kinda, but with extra steps I think.
As @johnparsons01 said autocomplete can suggest the buyer is disengaged. More importantly though I think when compared to other sellers it's not good for us if their orders are not being autocompleted. It's all relative between sellers.
We know that the review of a new buyer to the platform matters more because Fiverr wants them to have a great experience and buy again. Someone who has purchased a lot already probably matters less, and someone who has purchased a lot from you already probably matters even less.
I expect this also affects how impactful an auto-completed order is. If that same buyer buys again from you (or someone else) it maybe also negates the autocomplete impact to a degree. If that buyer always lets orders auto-complete it maybe also negates the impact to a degree. If they usually accept the delivery and rate and review, but don't with you then it probably has more impact.
I expect there are hundreds of data points that in turn impact the importance of other data points, which in turn impacts the score.
I even recall seeing an email or a post from a success manager (I can't find it) saying that we should actively try to get the order accepted as this gives a stronger indication the order has gone well / buyer is happy with the deliverable.
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Okay you sucked me back in, but I'm off to bed after this comment...
8 minutes ago, vhskid said:I meant your level / TRS status here. Since yes, I don't know your revenue stats.
And you don't know my level status either or my success score- you don't know where I stand. You're making an assumption based on my views of the new system.
8 minutes ago, vhskid said:things might really go bad for someone during this year.
Yes they might, or they might not. That's been something I've constantly said. The fear doesn't help. We have to wait and see what the actual impact is. Ups and downs are normal on Fiverr. For the data to be meaningful we'd have to give it a few months at least to judge.
Anyway, night all.
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1 minute ago, vhskid said:
Was this necessary/constructive/kind?
I respond to rudeness in the same way I would respond to bullies: once, make my point, and then I'll move on and ignore.
On this note what was quite a constructive and engaging back and forth is no longer quite so constructive (in my subjective opinion) so I'll leave it here for now.
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11 minutes ago, vhskid said:
I wonder about it myself - if these profiles are internally marked as agencies and not compared to regular freelancers or not.
The distinction should be obligatory and public. There is the "Fiverr agencies" account option, so these not-so-freelancer profiles should be converted.
And this is something we can both agree on. Same with people that use AI but don't mention it.
25 minutes ago, vhskid said:I'm saying that you'd probably be more critical about the new system if it would hurt your business or if it looked like it would be hurt.
Who on earth said it hadn't!? Massive assumption on your part. If you want the facts. February was my lowest revenue month for over 2 years, about 75% lower than my average month.
You're just assuming that everything is fine with me because I'm not slamming the new system.
The arguments can go both ways. Successful sellers can say they don't like it, and sellers that are getting hammered by it can say they do. That's allowed...
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3 minutes ago, vhskid said:
Calm down, Karen.
Is that really necessary/constructive/kind?
I did find your comment a bit offensive, and I can explain why... referring to someone on the other side of the debate as someone:
4 minutes ago, vhskid said:who sees the system's faults with a broader, deeper, and more careful perspective.
suggests by definition that I do not, that I am in fact narrower, shallower, and have a more careless perspective.
I don't think this is fair or true.
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1 minute ago, donnovan86 said:
You don't. The only problem is that you can't have 20 gigs anymore, they limited us to 10 as a level 2 seller. I have 4 so I am not affected, but having no difference between level 1 and 2 when it comes to the number of active gigs, then all of a sudden 30 for TRS.. That doesn't sit right with me.
Yep it seems a little odd, but I expect they are thinking there's going to be quite a lot of movement between levels 1 & 2, so it avoids the whole pausing / unpausing. I also do wonder if people need more than 10 gigs. I guess the 30 for TRS is catering towards those with big agencies that offer a lot of different things.
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8 minutes ago, leonormiserol said:
there are only terms like "improvement in communication" or "customer satisfaction." But that is very ambiguous and we cannot improve with so little information.
I fully agree the advice could be more actionable. It isn't hugely helpful currently.
But it is more than we had before (but perhaps just raises more questions!)
Again though I'll say that the data isn't new, and we are still the same sellers we were last month, and the same buyers are still here.
Levels might have changed, but it's often said that you don't need to be TRS to earn more, you can have success as level 1 or 2 (old system), so with that in mind I don't think we should assume that these changes are going to destroy sellers. I'm not saying they won't, I'm just saying we don't know. I do still believe that at its core Fiverr wants sellers to be successful, and buyers to be happy, because that's how they make money.
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28 minutes ago, vhskid said:
t's logical (disappointing but not surprising) that sellers who weren't negatively affected by the new system (e.g. still sit on their intact TRS status), won't criticize it as much as people whose profiles / gigs were hurt.
But it's nice to see "unaffected TRS" @levinewman (at least status-wise) who sees the system's faults with a broader, deeper, and more careful perspective.
Frankly I find this a bit offensive. You are assuming that I would only take the side that benefits me / aligns with my own situation. I find that quite obtuse. I'm happy to disagree with things that do benefit me. It's like why I vote for parties that will raise my taxes, even though I use public services less than average. I do it because I believe it's right.
Anyway.
28 minutes ago, levinewman said:I want to say very clearly I appreciate and respect your perspective.
And I yours.
28 minutes ago, levinewman said:Regarding the above, I don't know how long you've been on Fiverr, but from my perspective (10 years here) I think it's an honest reaction to the amount of negative changes I've personally seen in my time here.
About 3.5 years. I can't argue that the changes haven't hurt sellers over the 10 years you've been here. I don't know, I wasn't here, maybe everyone was worried when it changed from thumbs up/down to * ratings, and I'll never say the platform isn't weighted towards buyers. But let me ask you this... over the 10 years, and this steady stream of negative changes, has your revenue on average increased or decreased? Because if we're all here for revenue then that's what matters.
31 minutes ago, levinewman said:I think the poor communication and poor rollout are the major reasons why people are up in arms and because of these two factors, they are seriously worried about their revenue.
Again I agree! Comms and bugs have been an issue, and majorly damaged trust. But worry isn't reality, so I want to say again we need to see what happens.
33 minutes ago, levinewman said:regard to their well-being and security, then it's 100% your fault and you (Fiverr) deserve to be held accountable.
This is where we maybe disagree a bit more... does Fiverr actually owe us anything? I've had good months and bad. Unfair cancelations etc etc. I've always felt this was 'their house party', and if they change the music to something I don't like, then I can leave, or dance to a tune I don't enjoy. Like any platform, it's their platform, not ours. I'm not saying it feels fair, but it is the way it is.
5 minutes ago, emmaki said:charge people to work on here. How about.... $5 a gig a month?
That is what's happening, just with more steps I think.
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6 minutes ago, levinewman said:
Optics are everything, regardless of one's perspective.
I think people are only caring about the optics because they fear it’s going to hit their revenue. If everyone here knew they were going to make more money now they wouldn’t be nearly so much up in arms about it. My point is we don’t know this yet, and until we do we shouldn’t give into fear.
2 minutes ago, leonormiserol said:For me and for many it is a surprise, since most orders are completed with 5 stars, tips and good reviews. That is the point. How can we know that something is wrong in our relationship with the client if all we know is that he is in love with our work?
So the answer is yes, it is a surprise to manyAnd these positive public reviews probably came with mostly equally positive private reviews. But what about all the orders that didn’t rate you publicly? They may still have rated you privately, and perhaps not positively.
Ever been to a restaurant and told the waiter everything was great when in fact it wasn’t? I know I have. I dont want the hassle of making the negativity public, but if I could tell them secretly what I thought with no consequence or awkwardness then maybe I would.
Admittedly I don’t think it’s cool they are now making elements of the private review public, but the private reviews have always been there, and always had an impact.
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33 minutes ago, levinewman said:
This analogy never works and let me tell you why.
I used an analogy in another post a few weeks ago, and it was about being surprised when a partner leaves you when they told you the day before they loved you. It hurts, it's surprising, but maybe there were problems you didn't see. So it seems were on the same or similar page viewing it this way.
33 minutes ago, levinewman said:That. That is how this entire thing worked.
I don't disagree.
33 minutes ago, levinewman said:bad implementation, bad management, bad communication
I agree it could have been communicated better, and had fewer/no bugs. I made this point when I first posted.
33 minutes ago, levinewman said:bad leadership.
The thing is they aren't my leaders. They are leaders for their employees and their shareholders, and I guess this was a data led good move by Fiverr, FOR Fiverr (like @cucinavivace referred to Uber), at least this is their intention. Let's see.
33 minutes ago, levinewman said:Stop carrying water for a poorly designed system. You're carrying water for Fiverr when it makes no logical sense to have this system designed in this specific way
I've moaned about plenty of things when it comes to Fiverr, things that can be designed or done better. As sellers though you and I don't have to agree on everything. You can have your opinion and I can have mine, and that's ok.
33 minutes ago, levinewman said:then expect people to completely change their abilities within such a tight window.
Do you really think they expect that when it's based on the last 2 years of data, or were these just some nice words to motivate. I think it was to motivate.
I don't actually think we disagree on much, yeah it's surprising, unfair to some, badly communicated and buggy. But for some sellers to be surprised that private reviews impact your standing... really? That's a surprise? That was my point in that particular comment.
Finally I'll add, I'm not on Fiverr for levels, or reviews, or ratings. I'm here for revenue. Now if that drops dramatically for lots of sellers after this change I'll have big concerns about this change. If revenue remains similar then all that's changed is optics, and I don't really care about optics. This will take some time to see.
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6 minutes ago, tksk_nsk said:
Was this information really available from the beginning in a public post?
Private reviews were never a secret. This information has always been available in the help center and also talked about regularly on the forum. Also if you ever purchased something on Fiverr you saw it when reviewing.
Private reviews always impacted a sellers position (or 'rank' as some people insist on calling it) on the Fiverr marketplace. Sellers were also always compared to other sellers.
This data has always been used by Fiverr to decide where to position you. The key difference now is that you see more of the data.
I understand why people are annoyed by the changes and annoyed by the communication of the changes, but to be surprised that your positioning is relative to other sellers and that your performance is compared to other sellers to decide that positioning should not be surprising.
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Also, now a 4.7 review comes with a 'Well done!'. I think previously only 5* orders did. I think this is a nice touch re trying to normalise less than 5* reviews.
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Even though we can all see it, I thought it interesting how Fiverr describes the different levels to buyers now.
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10 hours ago, jonbaas said:
Let's turn the tables a bit. Anyone wanna help me -- a Fiverr veteran seller (6 digit sales) -- figure out how to get the Fiverr visibility and orders rolling again
I learned so much from you and others when I first joined, and I think it's natural and always healthy to ask for feedback on how to be better. I've done it myself and I remember @mariashtelle1 giving me some feedback, and one piece in particular that was vital. I coincidentally became TRS the next month. Maybe that piece of advice was key.
So, I've given my unabridged thoughts / brain dump below after having had a quick look at your profile. Obviously you know your space and clients better than I do, and you can tell me to shove it (or just ignore me!) if you want...
For your main gig....
On your main gig you only have one gig image. I know you know that you can have 3, so you should have 3. Make sure the gig images have keywords in the file name.
I don't see a portfolio on your profile. Could you give examples of the business names / case studies / what people can expect. You could certainly do it for logo design.
This gig is in the business names and slogans category. But I don't see the word 'slogan' in either your gig title, or in the tags for the gig. I haven't used the keyword tool myself in a long time, but know I need to, maybe you need too as well.
Could you break this gig down and launch news gigs... one for business name, one for slogan, one for trademark etc etc. This would increase visibility and allow you to approach client needs from multiple entry points.
No revisions are included, and some of your reviews seem frustrated by that. You know some buyers ask for them anyway so why not include them.
For your TShirt design gig...
There hasn't been a review in 5 years (so maybe no order in the same period). Maybe kill this gig. Or, update the images, add relevant portfolio pieces etc. You've got nothing to lose here.
For your logo gig there isn't a portfolio section. Also maybe consider using the keyword tool. We both know logos are saturated so it's hard to stand out here.
You don't use videos anywhere, either for your profile overall, or for your gigs. I know not everyone is comfortable with this, but for an actor I think you should be able to do it. I also think Fiverr wants you ticking every box on a profile set up (portfolio, videos, gig images), these could help please the algorithm.
You could also consider launching an overall build your brand gig... logo, trademark, slogan, socials etc. One big package deal.
Have you thought about offering brand consultancy. Just an idea.
You don't offer consultations. Again maybe you're not comfortable, but this is another feature you're not embracing.
I don't see subscriptions on your gigs. I get that it's not appropriate always, and for logos why would someone need a subscription, but I think Fiverr wants you using all the features.
Your headline is: Honest :: Talented :: Original. Whilst I don't doubt it, I think every seller would say this. Maybe try something different (you're the slogan pro)... I create names, slogans, brands and logos that build trust and drive sales. (I think this is what business owners want from their logos/brand/slogans).
I think your FAQs are a bit repetitive between gigs. I don't think you need to mention refunds, or that you're trustworthy or hardworking. I think this is assumed, and potentially causes people to question if you are in fact these things. Already mentioning refunds is an orange flag to me. The classic 'trust me bro'. I did also notice a couple of typos.
For this part in your FAQs:
My "Make It Social" package includes research and matching availability for Facebook and Twitter (the two most popular social media sites for brand-building). -- Research and availability for Pinterest is available as an optional add-on service.
Is this still true of FB and Twitter? When I meet with businesses they tend to be focused on Insta and TikTok now. I'm not saying FB and T are irrelevant, but is this what people need?
For your bio, you mention Hollywood movies, audio production, world wide logos, and top brand solutions. Maybe you can't mention them because of NDAs, but I would think you can mention some. I don't know if you have the Top Clients section available to you on Fiverr, but if you do maybe they can be added there. I think you should name names. You have a degree in art but don't mention the university.
So, this is my brain dump, and I'm only sharing because you asked. This is cheesy, but I say the above with love trying to help!
I'm guessing you pay for seller plus, and for promoted gigs? Unsurprisingly Fiverr attaches a monetary value to all of us. That's normal for marketplaces. Directly paying for promoted gigs increases your visibility, but indirectly it also puts more money in Fiverr's pocket, which I think makes Fiverr like you more.
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Hello @plasticloubouti,
I had to edit your post to remove the sellers name (forum rules).
Obviously you can share the full screenshots in your messages with the support team. Or if you want to reshare the full history on the forum please hide the sellers name.
The key messages I left and edited were:
1) Seller admitting to changing what they offered after you purchased
2) Seller asking for your whatsapp number
3) Seller saying they would cancel if you found them a client
I think this clearly captures the problems you've had, and is also clear justification to cancel the order.
Whilst I can't speak for Fiverr, or the support team, I'd be very surprised if they don't cancel this order, return your money, and even potentially take action against the seller.
Like I say just give support some time as they are pretty swamped right now.
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Hello @plasticloubouti,
Sorry to hear you're having a tough experience with a seller.
Fiverr support will get back to you, they're just pretty busy at the moment.
I would suggest keeping your messages to support short and sweet, include screenshots and focus on the details:
'Seller is refusing to cancel my order, and is demanding my whatsapp number, more money, and that I find him a client'
I think you're justified in canceling this order, and I'm confident support will think so too. Just give them a bit of time.
I would suggest you don't open multiple tickets with support, just update the existing ticket if you.
Also, just FYI, the forum is mainly buyers and sellers, and you can't get specific account advice here. It's perfectly okay to vent your frustration though!
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4 hours ago, badar125 said:
thanks can you share if you have link of it?
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I think the best / most official place to be is the Fiverr forum.
I don't know about discord, but I know that there is quite an active reddit community as well.
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Official feedback thread re: the new leveling system
in Fiverr.com Feedback
Posted
Perhaps they did that to get that seller some orders, so that seller stayed engaged with the platform. That way Fiverr have another engaged seller to offer buyers more choice when it comes to sellers. Perhaps they felt you were engaged enough with the platform.
It's just speculation on my part, but there's likely a number of reasons why Fiverr chooses to give someone the Fiverr choice badge, and it's not necessarily just because they do good work. It could be to serve Fiverr's goals of creating a dynamic and varied marketplace of lots of engaged sellers and happy buyer.
It's perhaps like why people often talk about a slump in sales (old system) when they hit level 2. Perhaps Fiverr decides at that point you've worked hard on your profile, you're committed as a seller, and so they can redirect some traffic to other/newer sellers to make sure they're engaged. Again, I'm just speculating. It could also be a bug! Who knows!