Success Score has to go or be revamped

[gbrl_c]

After putting a lot of my time learning, researching, reading and testing Success Score it's clear it has some major flaws.

I have my own ways to test and determine it, and I can guarantee you without any percentage of doubt that Fiverr's AI that determines Success Score is both poorly designed and poorly programmed. Unless Fiverr has shady intentions to let a bunch of their sellers and buyers go and find other platforms, it HAS TO change with urgency.

It's clear that the way Success Score is working today is doing significant harm not only to sellers but to buyers as well. Suddenly loyal buyers are seeing their trusted sellers levels decreasing, and the majority of buyers don't have enough information about Success Score, so they probably assume something is wrong. Basicly it's bad for veteran sellers, it's bad for new sellers, it's bad for veteran buyers, and it's bad for new buyers.

We don't need and we don't want AI to determine our Success Score. I suggest Fiverr let this metric go or revamp it to remove AI somehow. And as a loyal seller of this platform I also suggest doing it FAST, because harm is being done to buyers, sellers and Fiverr itself everyday.

So Fiverr, this new metric is being criticized by a decent amount of users for a relatively long time, we demand an answer by your side.
What are you going to do about it?

[donnovan86]

18 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

I have my own ways to test and determine it

Well you don't have access to all the data Fiverr has. I am not a fan of the success score either. But there's a lot of hidden data here that sellers don't have access to. Fiverr does. So yeah, while we don't agree to it, we don't really have access to all the data in order to say that the system itself is flawed. Maybe it works as intended, who knows. The idea is that yes, it does seem that Fiverr wants people with bad performance to not receive as many orders, and that's why they have a new review system, success score and reviews for canceled orders. If anything, I can only imagine they will go beyond that and find new ways to penalize sellers.

The reality is that they have less buyers on the platform when compared to years ago, active buyers at least. And the number of sellers is increasing, with many of them offering low quality services because a random guru online told them they can make easy money. There are tons of sellers scamming people, not delivering the work they promised, manipulating buyers to leave a good review in order to receive their work.

I see both sides, Fiverr and sellers, and obviously there's no way for them to make us happy. If they remove cancellation penalties, we get back to the pre 2015 era when people were canceling orders left and right with mutual cancellations and there were no penalties. People will always manipulate the system to their advantage, because that's what they do. Everyone wants to have the perfect 5 stars and stand out. 

What is Fiverr going to do about this? If they implement a new system, it stays for a very long time. I doubt they will make significant changes or that the Success Score will go away in any capacity. Unless they change it with something else. They clearly invested a lot of resources and time on this, and they think it will help them push away bad sellers.

The main issue I have with this system is that it compares you to other people in your category. If you have a lot of agencies that spew orders every hour, how can you compete with them? And your success score goes down because you are not an agency. If the other metrics are in your semi-control (you do the work, you are in control of what you deliver, but the buyer has the final evaluation, which is normal for an online marketplace), this comparison with other sellers is not fair. Because a lot of people don't disclose they have a team. There are Pro sellers that have massive teams and use AI, but the account owner says they work alone. Unethical, but they are not forced to anyway. And they can easily lie and say they do the work themselves, there's no way for Fiverr to verify that. 

[gbrl_c]

3 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Well you don't have access to all the data Fiverr has. I am not a fan of the success score either. But there's a lot of hidden data here that sellers don't have access to. Fiverr does. So yeah, while we don't agree to it, we don't really have access to all the data in order to say that the system itself is flawed. Maybe it works as intended, who knows. The idea is that yes, it does seem that Fiverr wants people with bad performance to not receive as many orders, and that's why they have a new review system, success score and reviews for canceled orders. If anything, I can only imagine they will go beyond that and find new ways to penalize sellers.

The reality is that they have less buyers on the platform when compared to years ago, active buyers at least. And the number of sellers is increasing, with many of them offering low quality services because a random guru online told them they can make easy money. There are tons of sellers scamming people, not delivering the work they promised, manipulating buyers to leave a good review in order to receive their work.

I see both sides, Fiverr and sellers, and obviously there's no way for them to make us happy. If they remove cancellation penalties, we get back to the pre 2015 era when people were canceling orders left and right with mutual cancellations and there were no penalties. People will always manipulate the system to their advantage, because that's what they do. Everyone wants to have the perfect 5 stars and stand out. 

What is Fiverr going to do about this? If they implement a new system, it stays for a very long time. I doubt they will make significant changes or that the Success Score will go away in any capacity. Unless they change it with something else. They clearly invested a lot of resources and time on this, and they think it will help them push away bad sellers.

The main issue I have with this system is that it compares you to other people in your category. If you have a lot of agencies that spew orders every hour, how can you compete with them? And your success score goes down because you are not an agency. If the other metrics are in your semi-control (you do the work, you are in control of what you deliver, but the buyer has the final evaluation, which is normal for an online marketplace), this comparison with other sellers is not fair. Because a lot of people don't disclose they have a team. There are Pro sellers that have massive teams and use AI, but the account owner says they work alone. Unethical, but they are not forced to anyway. And they can easily lie and say they do the work themselves, there's no way for Fiverr to verify that. 

I agree and disagree with you. I understand Fiverr's side to push out bad sellers, spammers and scammers and this is a positive thing. Another thing is to punish good sellers and buyers, being them veteran or new - along with the bad ones -, because your new system is clearly flawed.

Only because you invested time and money on a new system it doesn't mean it has to be enforced for a long period of time because it could do way more harm than good, which is I see it's happening. It's a terrible business decision for them to keep it running. 

And believe me when I say I tested it by my own ways and I can guarantee you that it is flawed. I don't need all the data they have to test it, if I have ways to collect my own. I'm not saying what I've done to test it out because it could cause me harm, but trust me I did nothing against ToS and I can guarantee you that at least Success Score AI isn't what they expected it to be, and it's doing more harm than good.

[gbrl_c]

It's also very simple for them to test their own new metrics, and it won't take long to see that's not working. I don't know exactly what it is, but there's probably a reason why they don't bother changing it, and sadly that lack of transparency is what is making me reconsider staying here in this platform.

[donnovan86]

13 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

Only because you invested time and money on a new system it doesn't mean it has to be enforced for a long period of time because it could do way more harm than good, which is I see it's happening. It's a terrible business decision for them to keep it running. 

 

You're not the one investing the money though. They are, and they won't remove it just because some of the community outrages. I've been here for 10+ years and they never fully reverted any system they added. They made some slight changes, but usually they will stick with the stuff they do. Terrible decision or not, it's their business, and sellers clearly don't have a say. Sellers that made over $1 million are leaving the platform due to these changes. Will that matter to Fiverr? Probably not. 

 

Just now, gbrl_c said:

and sadly that lack of transparency is what is making me reconsider staying here in this platform.

The thing with transparency is that if all data is shared, some people will use it properly, others will manipulate the system. It's human nature, some people will try to game the system to their benefit. Plus, as long as they promise buyers that private data they share is not sent to sellers, I don't see us ever accessing all the feedback and data Fiverr has on us and our gigs. The problem for me is that a lot of people rate stuff randomly to begin with, others are very vindinctive, so many times, you can have a very very positive set of public reviews, yet private reviews are terrible. That's because a lot of people don't leave private reviews. And those that do.. let's say there's a higher chance for an unhappy person to leave a bad private review, whereas happy customers won't always be as adamant to leave yet another review. I had only very positive, great reviews, but my clicks and impressions were extremely low, and my success manager told me that my private reviews were not that great, which obviously you can't see unless you have access to that data. But hey, they have to sell their Seller Plus somehow right?

I am not bothering with all this stuff that's outside of my control. I don't think they will change this system for quite some time. And if they do, it won't be seller positive either. I don't see the reason to leave this platform though, if you can still make some money on it. The problem is for those people that rely solely on Fiverr to make a living. It has become way wayyyy too hard to rely on income that one month can be great, the next month can be terrible.So diversifying the income is what we should all focus on. It's better to see Fiverr as yet another source of income, and not the only one. At least that's how I think. And it's also why I am not so adamant when it comes to outraging or forcing Fiverr to make changes. I've been here long enough to know that sellers have limited power when it comes to making changes. They listen to what we have to say, but realistically, shareholders and those that run the company have the power, not us. So if they want to push AI, they will. If they want people to not all have 5 stars and be level 2, they will. As an user, you either abide or.. disband 🙂  

So yeah, from my perspective, I don't see this success system going anywhere. At least we have an idea of how Fiverr sees and scores our gigs. At least we know why we are in the back of search and we don't receive any inquiries. Pre success score, you had no idea what's happening, unless you went to the success manager. Now you can see the score, at least.

[priyank_mod]

31 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

And believe me when I say I tested it by my own ways and I can guarantee you that it is flawed. 

I would urge you to explain and demonstrate in detail, how the system is flawed??

Most of the sellers here are not familiar with complex data science models. May be you can enlighten all of us!! 

 

17 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

It's also very simple for them to test their own new metrics, and it won't take long to see that's not working. 

What if they tested it sufficiently at their end and it works efficiently from their POV (irrespective of what we sellers say or how we feel about it)?? 

[smashradio]

You claim to have "your own ways" that could "cause me harm" but are "not against the terms of service." I find that to be suspect, at best.

While many of us have concerns about the success score being controlled by an AI developed by the same folks who brought us Neo (and we're on the same page there), making groundless accusations and asserting without question that a system is flawed based on "data" you won't share doesn’t build confidence in your methods, nor does it help anyone form an opinion about your conclusions.

[smashradio]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

The main issue I have with this system is that it compares you to other people in your category. 

So did the old system, just using fewer data points. This is nothing new. 

Do I like the new system? No. 

Do I think it's here to stay? Yes. 

Is it working as intended? Sort of. And I expect they will refine it as we move forward, and combine it with other upcoming changes to the platform. 

As for agencies competing with freelancers, this is not new. Agencies have been on here for a long time. Misrepresenting yourself is, as far as I know, still not ok on Fiverr. So claiming you're just a freelancer when you're an agency is, based on my understanding, not ok. 

Your revenue/average selling price/number of orders has always played a part in the algo. But Fiverr was and is still a freelancing platform first, not an agency platform, so I do hope they find ways of balancing the system, and soon. What you're pointing out is an actual issue that only gets worsened with the success score system.

 

[gbrl_c]

31 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

You're not the one investing the money though. They are, and they won't remove it just because some of the community outrages. I've been here for 10+ years and they never fully reverted any system they added. They made some slight changes, but usually they will stick with the stuff they do. Terrible decision or not, it's their business, and sellers clearly don't have a say. Sellers that made over $1 million are leaving the platform due to these changes. Will that matter to Fiverr? Probably not. 

 

The thing with transparency is that if all data is shared, some people will use it properly, others will manipulate the system. It's human nature, some people will try to game the system to their benefit. Plus, as long as they promise buyers that private data they share is not sent to sellers, I don't see us ever accessing all the feedback and data Fiverr has on us and our gigs. The problem for me is that a lot of people rate stuff randomly to begin with, others are very vindinctive, so many times, you can have a very very positive set of public reviews, yet private reviews are terrible. That's because a lot of people don't leave private reviews. And those that do.. let's say there's a higher chance for an unhappy person to leave a bad private review, whereas happy customers won't always be as adamant to leave yet another review. I had only very positive, great reviews, but my clicks and impressions were extremely low, and my success manager told me that my private reviews were not that great, which obviously you can't see unless you have access to that data. But hey, they have to sell their Seller Plus somehow right?

I am not bothering with all this stuff that's outside of my control. I don't think they will change this system for quite some time. And if they do, it won't be seller positive either. I don't see the reason to leave this platform though, if you can still make some money on it. The problem is for those people that rely solely on Fiverr to make a living. It has become way wayyyy too hard to rely on income that one month can be great, the next month can be terrible.So diversifying the income is what we should all focus on. It's better to see Fiverr as yet another source of income, and not the only one. At least that's how I think. And it's also why I am not so adamant when it comes to outraging or forcing Fiverr to make changes. I've been here long enough to know that sellers have limited power when it comes to making changes. They listen to what we have to say, but realistically, shareholders and those that run the company have the power, not us. So if they want to push AI, they will. If they want people to not all have 5 stars and be level 2, they will. As an user, you either abide or.. disband 🙂  

So yeah, from my perspective, I don't see this success system going anywhere. At least we have an idea of how Fiverr sees and scores our gigs. At least we know why we are in the back of search and we don't receive any inquiries. Pre success score, you had no idea what's happening, unless you went to the success manager. Now you can see the score, at least.

I'm not the one investing money, but I'm investing my time in this platform. You say they listen, but won't do nothing, so what good does it do? It's basically the same as not listening. If they don't care about the career of their sellers, about being fair with them, providing solid metrics, it tells me a lot about this company. We, sellers, are the working force for them to earn money, and I think it's a huge mistake for them to ignore a major issue like this. 

What bothers me is that they are pushing a metric that's based on flawed AI readings. Their AI isn't close to being fair. I'm talking from a perspective of a new seller with 5 orders, so I have much more control of my own data than veteran ones. And I can't tell you exactly what I did, but trust me when I say it's flawed. I wouldn't create a thread if I had doubts, I'm not that kind of person. If I had 1% of doubt I'd just shut my mouth and observe. I understand you because If I were a Level 2 I would bother way less with some details, even though I would still criticize this "new" metric a little. I'm someone that's working hard and still can't even maintain a Level 1 to be able to promote gigs and try to earn a little side income. My main source of income isn't Fiverr and I agree with you about diversification and I do it myself. Still, it's not fair to be punished by the time I invested in a side source of income just because of a bad designed AI system.

[gbrl_c]

49 minutes ago, priyank_mod said:

I would urge you to explain and demonstrate in detail, how the system is flawed??

Most of the sellers here are not familiar with complex data science models. May be you can enlighten all of us!! 

 

What if they tested it sufficiently at their end and it works efficiently from their POV (irrespective of what we sellers say or how we feel about it)?? 

My test isn't related to complex data science approach, it's a simple one and anybody could do it. Let's do it like this, I need some weeks to decide if I will keep trying to grow on Fiverr or not. If things don't get better and I decide not to continue here, I'll tell you in details what I did. Is it fair?

For your second question. It's not about what we feel it's fair, there's a flaw in their AI readings that tends to drag sellers Success Score down.

Only thing I'm trying to figure out, and this I'll probably never be able to know 100%, is if they are doing it on purpose for some shady reason or not. Because it's not hard to put it to test.

Edited April 21 by gbrl_c

[gbrl_c]

26 minutes ago, smashradio said:

You claim to have "your own ways" that could "cause me harm" but are "not against the terms of service." I find that to be suspect, at best.

While many of us have concerns about the success score being controlled by an AI developed by the same folks who brought us Neo (and we're on the same page there), making groundless accusations and asserting without question that a system is flawed based on "data" you won't share doesn’t build confidence in your methods, nor does it help anyone form an opinion about your conclusions.

I'm aware of it. I know I can't convince users without telling my methods, and I'm ok with that. I aimed this thread to Fiverr. They need to know at least one user is seeing right through what they're doing. If I decide to leave, I'll let you know what I've done. And it isn't anything complex, it's a simple thing.

[gbrl_c]

25 minutes ago, smashradio said:

So did the old system, just using fewer data points. This is nothing new. 

Do I like the new system? No. 

Do I think it's here to stay? Yes. 

Is it working as intended? Sort of. And I expect they will refine it as we move forward, and combine it with other upcoming changes to the platform. 

As for agencies competing with freelancers, this is not new. Agencies have been on here for a long time. Misrepresenting yourself is, as far as I know, still not ok on Fiverr. So claiming you're just a freelancer when you're an agency is, based on my understanding, not ok. 

Your revenue/average selling price/number of orders has always played a part in the algo. But Fiverr was and is still a freelancing platform first, not an agency platform, so I do hope they find ways of balancing the system, and soon. What you're pointing out is an actual issue that only gets worsened with the success score system.

 

Yes, and this is one more reason for Success Score to go, or at least get revamped. It will be sad if they don't listen to us, but at least we are doing our part.

[smashradio]

36 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

I'm not the one investing money, but I'm investing my time in this platform.

This may sound blunt, but you're not worth much to Fiverr, nor am I. Consider the massive scale of the company. At this level, they aren’t concerned about one user. To them, neither you nor I significantly impact their bottom line. That’s just how it is.

With that said, I'm not just a buyer or seller, I’m also an investor, and I hold Fiverr stock. From that perspective, especially with their recent announcement to buyback up to $100M in shares, Fiverr obviously believes in their stock.

Fiverr isn't known for changing course. Mika is all in on AI right now, convinced that just adding "AI" to anything will draw investors. He’s banking on the AI boom, and if it hits, he stands to profit significantly. And to be fair, so do I.

This confidence in their stock is the sole reason I’m still holding mine, even though I’m not sold on their AI strategy. It might take years, but Fiverr doesn't want to be left behind while others innovate. It’s just disappointing that Fiverr’s attempts at AI are... let me try to find a nice word here... lackluster. 

36 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

Their AI isn't close to being fair. I'm talking from a perspective of a new seller with 5 orders, so I have much more control of my own data than veteran ones. And I can't tell you exactly what I did, but trust me when I say it's flawed. 

You have five reviews, three of them being from the same buyer. Is that the entirety of your data?

36 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

And I can't tell you exactly what I did, but trust me when I say it's flawed. I wouldn't create a thread if I had doubts, I'm not that kind of person. If I had 1% of doubt I'd just shut my mouth and observe. 

I get where you're coming from, but I have no basis to trust you since I don't know you. None of us do. You're just another user upset about the new system, but you claim to have definitive proof that the system is flawed.

That would indicate that you haven't considered the you-factor at all, and while you might very well be the most talented seller on Fiverr in all of history, we would have no way of knowing, hence the need for you to present actual data.

Academically speaking, you're not entitled to your opinion; you're only entitled to what you can argue for, and something being "unfair" isn't really an argument in a business context. 

So far, I've heard lots of complaints about the system being just that – unfair – claims I've seen daily for years from sellers not happy with the way Fiverr works.

30 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

My test isn't related to complex data science approach, it's a simple one and anybody could do it. Let's do it like this, I need some weeks to decide if I will keep trying to grow on Fiverr or not. If things don't get better and I decide not to continue here, I'll tell you in details what I did. Is it fair?

For your second question. It's not about what we feel it's fair, there's a flaw in their AI readings that tends to drag sellers Success Score down.

Only thing I'm trying to figure out, and this I'll probably never be able to know 100%, is if they are doing it on purpose for some shady reason or not. Because it's not hard to put it to test.

By all means, I can't force you or require you to provide us with anything. You do what you feel is best. But you can't expect us to accept an argument that's not being backed up by any real data. 

You just complained about it being unfair, but it's not about what we feel is fair? If it's a flaw in their AI, what is that fault? How does it affect sellers, why, and which sellers are being impacted? 

 

Edited April 21 by smashradio

[donnovan86]

49 minutes ago, smashradio said:

As for agencies competing with freelancers, this is not new. Agencies have been on here for a long time. Misrepresenting yourself is, as far as I know, still not ok on Fiverr. So claiming you're just a freelancer when you're an agency is, based on my understanding, not ok. 

 

I know it was here for a long time. However, we couldn't lose our level due to agencies, now we can if we just have 1-2 orders a week and they have 100. Actively using that comparison to lower scores because others cheat the system and are an agency or they outsource like crazy.. that's not ok and certainly not fair. Well, I think the most successful writer, a Pro writer says they work alone, and clearly if you check their socials they promote their AI business and their company with dozens of writers. Yet on their profile, I WRITE, I HELP, I do everything. And that's not the only person, I just know the situation because they are in my niche. I checked a lot of other sellers from other niches and it's clear they are outsourcing or they are an agency. 

 

[smashradio]

4 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I know it was here for a long time. However, we couldn't lose our level due to agencies, now we can if we just have 1-2 orders a week and they have 100. Actively using that comparison to lower scores because others cheat the system and are an agency or they outsource like crazy.. that's not ok and certainly not fair. Well, I think the most successful writer, a Pro writer says they work alone, and clearly if you check their socials they promote their AI business and their company with dozens of writers. Yet on their profile, I WRITE, I HELP, I do everything. And that's not the only person, I just know the situation because they are in my niche. I checked a lot of other sellers from other niches and it's clear they are outsourcing or they are an agency. 

 

Yeah, like I said, the issue is compounded by the success score system. The SS is the new BSR, and it can make or break you. 

With that said, I own an entire newspaper, on top of a voice over business outside of Fiverr, and I run my copywriter business on Fiverr. (But on Fiverr, it's only me)

But you're right in saying it's an issue. And I sure hope Fiverr will find a way of balancing that. Then again, we're competing against agencies everywhere. 

Edited April 21 by smashradio

[donnovan86]

39 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

I'm not the one investing money, but I'm investing my time in this platform. You say they listen, but won't do nothing, so what good does it do?

I think you should know by now that businesses don't care about your time or mine. They care about money. That's all. They do listen and make small changes. But removing the entire success score? Nah, that's not going to happen, at least not for a while, and not because sellers want. It will most likely be due to them finding a better method that fits with their long term view for the company. 

41 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

Their AI isn't close to being fair. I'm talking from a perspective of a new seller with 5 orders, so I have much more control of my own data than veteran ones. And I can't tell you exactly what I did, but trust me when I say it's flawed.

I am sure you don't have doubts. But also you can't know what private reviews people left, or what private data was offered for your orders. So regardless of what data you have, it's not complete. Not everyone leaves a private review. So if you have 5 orders, each with 5 star public reviews, but there is only one private review and that private review is negative, then you will have a very low success score. Because private reviews matter way way more, and if you only have one, and that's bad.. then it will have a very very veerry bad impact on your success score. 

33 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

I aimed this thread to Fiverr.

Well, you can aim it, but not sure if it will hit the target 🙂 There was a massive outrage when the success score came out, and a month prior to that, with the new review system. Guess what? Fiverr representatives said they saw the sentiment, understood what people were complaining about, and according to them, some things like extensions or cancellations from customer support are not damaging the success score anymore. However, we are 2+ months away from that launch now, and nothing has changed. Ah, they changed value for money to value of delivery. Other than that.. the success score continues to be exactly the way they wanted. 

Realistically, people got used to it. Buyers understood how the review system works, there are less random reviews being left, etc. And I don't see that much outrage, aside from a topic like yours here and there when someone ends up with a lower success score. But I think most sellers that have been here for a while realized that Fiverr is a for-profit business, and their focus is on attracting buyers, improving the buyer experience.. Plus, if I remember correctly, the company is losing buyers, and there are a LOT more sellers than even a few years ago. So yeah, there's no shortage of talent, if you or me go, there will be others to take our spot in search. 

 

Good luck, maybe someone from Fiverr's higher ups sees this and they have a change of heart. But as I said, I think it's very clear the direction Fiverr is heading towards, and it's not a pro-seller one. It's aimed at getting more buyers, making people spend more, and also removing meksells and bad sellers along the way. And also, heavy on AI too. 

[smashradio]

Let's just say I know people, yet I'm in the dark about my private reviews and all the factors that affect our success scores, just as everyone else. What I do know is that they have no intention of changing how things operate. So, we can complain all we want, but we're stuck with it. Instead of just complaining (though I do get a kick out of poking fun at Fiverr's AI), we need to figure out how to work with it. Sure, we could leave, cry, yell, complain, and tell Fiverr how much we hate it, but from their perspective, we might as well be preschoolers throwing a tantrum for more candy.

[sabbirthedealer]

Helpful 

[gbrl_c]

On 4/21/2024 at 5:27 PM, smashradio said:

This may sound blunt, but you're not worth much to Fiverr, nor am I. Consider the massive scale of the company. At this level, they aren’t concerned about one user. To them, neither you nor I significantly impact their bottom line. That’s just how it is.

With that said, I'm not just a buyer or seller, I’m also an investor, and I hold Fiverr stock. From that perspective, especially with their recent announcement to buyback up to $100M in shares, Fiverr obviously believes in their stock.

Fiverr isn't known for changing course. Mika is all in on AI right now, convinced that just adding "AI" to anything will draw investors. He’s banking on the AI boom, and if it hits, he stands to profit significantly. And to be fair, so do I.

This confidence in their stock is the sole reason I’m still holding mine, even though I’m not sold on their AI strategy. It might take years, but Fiverr doesn't want to be left behind while others innovate. It’s just disappointing that Fiverr’s attempts at AI are... let me try to find a nice word here... lackluster. 

You have five reviews, three of them being from the same buyer. Is that the entirety of your data?

I get where you're coming from, but I have no basis to trust you since I don't know you. None of us do. You're just another user upset about the new system, but you claim to have definitive proof that the system is flawed.

That would indicate that you haven't considered the you-factor at all, and while you might very well be the most talented seller on Fiverr in all of history, we would have no way of knowing, hence the need for you to present actual data.

Academically speaking, you're not entitled to your opinion; you're only entitled to what you can argue for, and something being "unfair" isn't really an argument in a business context. 

So far, I've heard lots of complaints about the system being just that – unfair – claims I've seen daily for years from sellers not happy with the way Fiverr works.

By all means, I can't force you or require you to provide us with anything. You do what you feel is best. But you can't expect us to accept an argument that's not being backed up by any real data. 

You just complained about it being unfair, but it's not about what we feel is fair? If it's a flaw in their AI, what is that fault? How does it affect sellers, why, and which sellers are being impacted? 

 

It's a good thing to Fiverr and to us if AI is attracting more investors. Again, I'm not against AI, but SS AI to be specific is not working properly. And if Fiverr isn't known for changing course, well, they should rethink their strategy. The best companies out there rethink and reevaluate constantly. Seems like many of you aknowledge Fiverr's mistakes, but somehow you just accept it like there's nothing to be done. Has it happened too many times in the past, or? I'm genuinely asking because I'm new here. Anyway, no offense, but I don't like that mindset. Like you said, me and you alone, we are just one, but if enough of us come forward we will at least have their attention. What they'll do with that information is their responsibility, it's not ours anymore. I'm satisfied because I feel I'm doing my part, even if they decide to ignore it.

My five reviews are all from different buyers, that's why I'm level 1 (for now), don't know where you got that info. And yes this is all my data, but I have the entirety of these datas. For the test I was talking about, the less variables, the better. There's no "me-factor" and it's not about being a talented seller at all, it's a simple test. What I meant by unfair is that it's flawed, basically. I didn't mean I feel it's unfair and I disagree with it but it's working perfectly.

I will say it one last time, I'm not trying to convince you, I also have a hard time trusting people I don't know. I just want to point out someone knows for sure their metric is flawed, this is my only purpose here.

The flaw is causing Success Score to be dragged down, at least for me as a new seller. And if it's happening to me, there's a high chance it's happening to other new sellers too. Sorry for being vague, but I really can't say too much.

[gbrl_c]

On 4/21/2024 at 5:47 PM, donnovan86 said:

I think you should know by now that businesses don't care about your time or mine. They care about money. That's all. They do listen and make small changes. But removing the entire success score? Nah, that's not going to happen, at least not for a while, and not because sellers want. It will most likely be due to them finding a better method that fits with their long term view for the company. 

I am sure you don't have doubts. But also you can't know what private reviews people left, or what private data was offered for your orders. So regardless of what data you have, it's not complete. Not everyone leaves a private review. So if you have 5 orders, each with 5 star public reviews, but there is only one private review and that private review is negative, then you will have a very low success score. Because private reviews matter way way more, and if you only have one, and that's bad.. then it will have a very very veerry bad impact on your success score. 

Well, you can aim it, but not sure if it will hit the target 🙂 There was a massive outrage when the success score came out, and a month prior to that, with the new review system. Guess what? Fiverr representatives said they saw the sentiment, understood what people were complaining about, and according to them, some things like extensions or cancellations from customer support are not damaging the success score anymore. However, we are 2+ months away from that launch now, and nothing has changed. Ah, they changed value for money to value of delivery. Other than that.. the success score continues to be exactly the way they wanted. 

Realistically, people got used to it. Buyers understood how the review system works, there are less random reviews being left, etc. And I don't see that much outrage, aside from a topic like yours here and there when someone ends up with a lower success score. But I think most sellers that have been here for a while realized that Fiverr is a for-profit business, and their focus is on attracting buyers, improving the buyer experience.. Plus, if I remember correctly, the company is losing buyers, and there are a LOT more sellers than even a few years ago. So yeah, there's no shortage of talent, if you or me go, there will be others to take our spot in search. 

 

Good luck, maybe someone from Fiverr's higher ups sees this and they have a change of heart. But as I said, I think it's very clear the direction Fiverr is heading towards, and it's not a pro-seller one. It's aimed at getting more buyers, making people spend more, and also removing meksells and bad sellers along the way. And also, heavy on AI too.

Yes, companies tend not to listen to their employees, but are you satisfied with it? Well I ain't. And why not remove something that isn't working? This is a forum meant to get ideas and feedback flowing, have you heard about Spiral of Silence Theory? Because it seems like you're not only falling into it, but want others to fall into it too. And as I mentioned to @smashradio, I feel satisfied in doing my part even if they don't listen. And I think every employee should do it, despite being a freelancer platform or not. Companies have the power, and they will have even more monopoly of this power if we keep our mouths shut just because we think nothing will happen if we speak up.

Regarding data, I really can't give you a direct answer, I'll have to just say I'm 100% sure of what I did and what I tested. It's 100% and not 99%. But again, as I said before, my intention is not to convince you. I wouldn't believe in someone claiming something without proofs as well, I get it. I just want to reach Fiverr.

I get that there are more threads out there similar to mine, but mainly focused on a bad sentiment of their SS being lowered, or questioning exact SS metrics. I dislike my SS being lowered too (I'll be dropping from 5 to 4 in a few days, just a few days after I hit 5), of course, but this is not the base of this thread. Base is the SS AI is flawed. I wouldn't create a thread if I was mad or if I had an opinion that a system is unfair. Not saying it's wrong, but I wouldn't do it personally if I didn't know for sure what I was talking about. If that was the case I'd just research more, or create a thread asking for more transparent metrics and not just vague words they like to use to describe the Success Score system.

[catwriter]

On 4/21/2024 at 10:02 PM, gbrl_c said:

Only thing I'm trying to figure out, and this I'll probably never be able to know 100%, is if they are doing it on purpose for some shady reason or not.

It's possible that they're doing it on purpose, and the purpose is to artificially reduce the number of 5 star ratings (and possibly of level 2 sellers, too). Because there are way too many complaints from buyers that they can't decide who to hire with so many sellers having 5 star ratings (and yet so many turn out to be scammers). When everyone is a 5 star seller, ratings are meaningless.

42 minutes ago, gbrl_c said:

Seems like many of you aknowledge Fiverr's mistakes, but somehow you just accept it like there's nothing to be done. Has it happened too many times in the past, or?

Whenever Fiverr introduces some changes (and since 2010, when it was created, there were plenty), there's a lot of noise on the forum, people complaining about this and that, threatening to leave, saying we should all boycott Fiverr for a month... And nothing happens. Fiverr might make slight adjustments, or not, but they'll keep doing what they're doing. They won't reverse changes or alter them significantly. Some sellers do indeed leave, but sellers leave Fiverr all the time anyway, and the new ones come, so it doesn't matter to Fiverr.

You can stay, adapt, and try to make Fiverr work for you with its rules (which may change whenever they feel like it), you can complain on the forum, you can leave... Either way, Fiverr doesn't care.

[donnovan86]

4 hours ago, catwriter said:

Whenever Fiverr introduces some changes (and since 2010, when it was created, there were plenty), there's a lot of noise on the forum, people complaining about this and that, threatening to leave, saying we should all boycott Fiverr for a month... And nothing happens. Fiverr might make slight adjustments, or not, but they'll keep doing what they're doing. They won't reverse changes or alter them significantly. Some sellers do indeed leave, but sellers leave Fiverr all the time anyway, and the new ones come, so it doesn't matter to Fiverr.

 

Yep, 100% what I said. there is a slight outrage at first, people adapt and then nothing happens. They might do a quick adjustment and that's it. But the review system or that major change they made, that stays. 

4 hours ago, gbrl_c said:

Regarding data, I really can't give you a direct answer, I'll have to just say I'm 100% sure of what I did and what I tested

You don't have access to the private data left by customers, so there's no way you have 100% of the info. The only way you have 100% of the info is when you made all those purchases, you know exactly what private data you left.. But that would be against the rules and would get you banned. So assuming that's not the case, you have no way of knowing exactly what people said in private. I had only 5 star reviews for half a year, but my buyer satisfaction rate was very low, according to my success manager from Fiverr. The idea is that you see only public stuff, in private people can easily rush and leave a bad private review without even knowing. Or they ignore it, and if you have just a single, bad private review and no public ones, then your account is damaged quite a lot. 

[san_barrionuevo]

I totally agree with this.

In my case, I have been here for 10 years, I have become a Top Rated Seller with thousands of positive reviews and since they launched the new system, my new Level is 0.

In just one day, apparently I went from being one of the best sellers on the site to the same level as someone who is just starting out or worse.

The funny thing is that no matter how well I do my job, this score does not update. As I understand it, this value is updated daily but it has not moved a bit since day one.

I just hope they know what they're doing.

[jaden_barton]

The issue here is the lack of transparency.

We can control every other metric on the level system EXCEPT for the success score. Yet it is the one that negatively affects so many sellers on the platform. Fiverr has been boasting about their new improvement in regards to 'transparency' with the new level system but they forgot to fix transparency. 

Why does the review system even exist if the success score dictates everything about the gig?

[gbrl_c]

9 hours ago, catwriter said:

It's possible that they're doing it on purpose, and the purpose is to artificially reduce the number of 5 star ratings (and possibly of level 2 sellers, too). Because there are way too many complaints from buyers that they can't decide who to hire with so many sellers having 5 star ratings (and yet so many turn out to be scammers). When everyone is a 5 star seller, ratings are meaningless.

Whenever Fiverr introduces some changes (and since 2010, when it was created, there were plenty), there's a lot of noise on the forum, people complaining about this and that, threatening to leave, saying we should all boycott Fiverr for a month... And nothing happens. Fiverr might make slight adjustments, or not, but they'll keep doing what they're doing. They won't reverse changes or alter them significantly. Some sellers do indeed leave, but sellers leave Fiverr all the time anyway, and the new ones come, so it doesn't matter to Fiverr.

You can stay, adapt, and try to make Fiverr work for you with its rules (which may change whenever they feel like it), you can complain on the forum, you can leave... Either way, Fiverr doesn't care.

That makes sense. It might be the reason they're not sharing it with us. About that mindset though, I disagree completely. It's not a good impression to new buyers and sellers if they come to check the forums and find many veterans with a "looser" mindset (no offense here), as if they lost way too many battles and lost hope of changing and exposing what's wrong with the platform.