Are we going to be classed as employees?

[orcatek]

California just ruled an uber driver was employee and not independent. Discussion was about “gig” economy being invalid.

I hope not, but just wanted to start a conversation. Here is the news.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/06/17/415262801/california-labor-commission-rules-uber-driver-is-an-employee-not-a-contractor

[princeraj580]

Yes… We are 🙂

[Guest offlinehelpers]

I doubt it - a similar thing happened here last year:
the Guardian – 13 Nov 17

Yes, Uber has lost its ludicrous appeal. But will its drivers get their rights?...

Employment rights abuses in the gig economy will only stop if the existing law is properly enforced, says Jason Moyer-Lee, general secretary of the Independent Workers’ Union of Great Britain

[misscrystal]

The laws vary so much from place to place, but fiverr is international so it would be a nightmare to try to conform to all of them.

As long as we set our own schedules and choose our own gigs we probably won’t be considered employees by anyplace.

[orcatek]

The laws vary so much from place to place, but fiverr is international so it would be a nightmare to try to conform to all of them.

As long as we set our own schedules and choose our own gigs we probably won’t be considered employees by anyplace.

I have already been hit by fiverr rule changes due to legal changes, even if they are only US based rules. I doubt this is going to happen, but the uber drivers set there own schedules too.

[misscrystal]

I have already been hit by fiverr rule changes due to legal changes, even if they are only US based rules. I doubt this is going to happen, but the uber drivers set there own schedules too.

That was an article about the UK Uber drivers or a court case in California which has rules all it’s own.

[dzynner]

I think so. ✌️

[dzynner]

Fiverr is a good opportunity for all of us.😍

[eoinfinnegan]

No, I can’t see it happening.
However, the effect this might have is to make Fiverr (and other gig marketplaces) be less restrictive and structured - less rules and restrictions on what sellers have to do. This might seem good (and actually could be in some ways) but it could also cause the gig economy to lose its attractiveness if too much structure is lost and causes problems like a lack of reliability, for example.

[misscrystal]

No, I can’t see it happening.

However, the effect this might have is to make Fiverr (and other gig marketplaces) be less restrictive and structured - less rules and restrictions on what sellers have to do. This might seem good (and actually could be in some ways) but it could also cause the gig economy to lose its attractiveness if too much structure is lost and causes problems like a lack of reliability, for example.

In the US the rule is that independent contractors cannot have supervision or be managed or told how to do a job. How exactly that applies is unclear since we do tell the sellers how we want things done quite a bit, although fiverr does not actually give sellers instructions on how to do the actual jobs.

As long as fiverr is not getting involved in how we do our jobs, telling us how to do them, they are not our employers. That is just US law.

[eoinfinnegan]

In the US the rule is that independent contractors cannot have supervision or be managed or told how to do a job. How exactly that applies is unclear since we do tell the sellers how we want things done quite a bit, although fiverr does not actually give sellers instructions on how to do the actual jobs.

As long as fiverr is not getting involved in how we do our jobs, telling us how to do them, they are not our employers. That is just US law.

Interesting, so it is ok for contractors to be told they need to deliver on time, not to cancel too much and to respond to customers? 😉

PS. I think it is ok, just jumping in ahead of those who probably won’t agree.

[misscrystal]

Interesting, so it is ok for contractors to be told they need to deliver on time, not to cancel too much and to respond to customers? 😉

PS. I think it is ok, just jumping in ahead of those who probably won’t agree.

I think those instructions are ok. Those are rules set that apply to the conduct on the site.

[thecreativeguys]

We’re employees, working on commissions.

[misscrystal]

We’re employees, working on commissions.

Not employees, independent contractors. We have no boss or manager.

[orcatek]

In the US the rule is that independent contractors cannot have supervision or be managed or told how to do a job. How exactly that applies is unclear since we do tell the sellers how we want things done quite a bit, although fiverr does not actually give sellers instructions on how to do the actual jobs.

As long as fiverr is not getting involved in how we do our jobs, telling us how to do them, they are not our employers. That is just US law.

Uber drivers set their own schedules, had no boss, weren’t told how to do job, yet court still ruled employees. Actually was surprised by the ruling. It’s on appeal.

[misscrystal]

Uber drivers set their own schedules, had no boss, weren’t told how to do job, yet court still ruled employees. Actually was surprised by the ruling. It’s on appeal.

Uber drivers set their own schedules, had no boss, weren’t told how to do job, yet court still ruled employees. Actually was surprised by the ruling. It’s on appeal.

@orcatek You can try looking up the phrase “are uber drivers in US employees” as I just now did and found this:

Uber drivers are independent contractors, not full-time employees of the ride-hailing company, a federal judge ruled in what is said to be the first classification of Uber drivers under federal law.Apr 12, 2018

Maybe you are in the UK where it might be different?

I didn’t need to look it up but did it anyway.

No, I see you are in the US. Not sure where you got that misinformation.

Reuters reported this:

(Reuters) - A U.S. judge in Philadelphia has ruled that limousine drivers for Uber Technologies Inc [uBER.UL] are independent contractors and not the company’s employees under federal law, the first ruling of its kind on a crucial issue for the ride-hailing company.

U.S. – 13 Apr 18

U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

A U.S. judge in Philadelphia has ruled that limousine drivers for Uber Technolog...

The law is very clear on what an “employee” is and is not.

[eoinfinnegan]

Uber drivers set their own schedules, had no boss, weren’t told how to do job, yet court still ruled employees. Actually was surprised by the ruling. It’s on appeal.

@orcatek You can try looking up the phrase “are uber drivers in US employees” as I just now did and found this:

Uber drivers are independent contractors, not full-time employees of the ride-hailing company, a federal judge ruled in what is said to be the first classification of Uber drivers under federal law.Apr 12, 2018

Maybe you are in the UK where it might be different?

I didn’t need to look it up but did it anyway.

No, I see you are in the US. Not sure where you got that misinformation.

Reuters reported this:

(Reuters) - A U.S. judge in Philadelphia has ruled that limousine drivers for Uber Technologies Inc [uBER.UL] are independent contractors and not the company’s employees under federal law, the first ruling of its kind on a crucial issue for the ride-hailing company.

U.S. – 13 Apr 18

U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

A U.S. judge in Philadelphia has ruled that limousine drivers for Uber Technolog...

The law is very clear on what an “employee” is and is not.

Didnt notice it first time - the linked article in the OP is from 2015! 🙂

[misscrystal]

Didnt notice it first time - the linked article in the OP is from 2015! 🙂

California and New York ruled that they were employees, but Federal Law outweighs state laws on this.

[orcatek]

Uber drivers set their own schedules, had no boss, weren’t told how to do job, yet court still ruled employees. Actually was surprised by the ruling. It’s on appeal.

@orcatek You can try looking up the phrase “are uber drivers in US employees” as I just now did and found this:

Uber drivers are independent contractors, not full-time employees of the ride-hailing company, a federal judge ruled in what is said to be the first classification of Uber drivers under federal law.Apr 12, 2018

Maybe you are in the UK where it might be different?

I didn’t need to look it up but did it anyway.

No, I see you are in the US. Not sure where you got that misinformation.

Reuters reported this:

(Reuters) - A U.S. judge in Philadelphia has ruled that limousine drivers for Uber Technologies Inc [uBER.UL] are independent contractors and not the company’s employees under federal law, the first ruling of its kind on a crucial issue for the ride-hailing company.

U.S. – 13 Apr 18

U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

A U.S. judge in Philadelphia has ruled that limousine drivers for Uber Technolog...

The law is very clear on what an “employee” is and is not.

As it should be, the courts keep flip flopping. This is from May 2018. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/01/gig-economy-earthquake-california-supreme-court-rules-on-worker-classification/

[misscrystal]

As it should be, the courts keep flip flopping. This is from May 2018. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/01/gig-economy-earthquake-california-supreme-court-rules-on-worker-classification/

That is in California and as I said, federal law outweighs state law, so that will not be implemented. This is about US tax laws, which need to have unity throughout the country, so the federal court ruling outweighs state rulings.

[Guest shirtcash]

Well, to put it mildly, Fiverr is based in New York state. They follow New York laws. California has nothing to do with New York laws.

Moving on…

[Guest offlinehelpers]

Well, to put it mildly, Fiverr is based in New York state. They follow New York laws. California has nothing to do with New York laws.

Moving on…

Fiverr is based in New York state.

They’re based in Tel Aviv. 🙂

[orcatek]

Fiverr is based in New York state.

They’re based in Tel Aviv. 🙂

I know that they are based in Tel Aviv, but they have enacted other rules on gigs based upon US law. I doubt this will ever hit us, just a topic for some fun discussion.

[Guest offlinehelpers]

I know that they are based in Tel Aviv, but they have enacted other rules on gigs based upon US law. I doubt this will ever hit us, just a topic for some fun discussion.

I was replying to shirtcash…sorry! ☀️

[fonthaunt]

In the US the rule is that independent contractors cannot have supervision or be managed or told how to do a job. How exactly that applies is unclear since we do tell the sellers how we want things done quite a bit, although fiverr does not actually give sellers instructions on how to do the actual jobs.

As long as fiverr is not getting involved in how we do our jobs, telling us how to do them, they are not our employers. That is just US law.

As long as fiverr is not getting involved in how we do our jobs, telling us how to do them, they are not our employers. That is just US law.

I just saw this, but maybe this is one reason that Customer Support tells us to work things out with the buyer so often. I see people complain about that a lot, but it may help protect Fiverr and us. If Fiverr got too involves in our businesses and we were “employees” that would be a whole new hornet’s nest. I don’t think it will happen either.