Worst Day at Fiverr ever! (well... till now)

[misscrystal]

On 12/16/2017 at 2:52 PM, uxreview said:

Once the funds are released Fiverr has no right to ask the money back from you.

Where did you get this idea? Of course they do.

On 12/16/2017 at 2:55 PM, uxreview said:

They should send these back to PayPal with a proof that service was provided and unless the buyer is able to prove otherwise it should not affect the seller.

Fiverr doesn’t want to cause Paypal constant headaches. They probably only dispute it with Paypal if it is clear that the service was properly delivered and was over a certain amount. I’m guessing about that but fiverr and Paypal need each other, and fiverr needs Paypal worse than the other way around.

[cyaxrex]

Once the funds are released Fiverr has no right to ask the money back from you.

Where did you get this idea? Of course they do.

Once the funds are released Fiverr has no right to ask the money back from you.

Where did you get this idea? Of course they do.

Not really. If I source a merchandise from a wholesaler, even in a drop shipping context, I don’t have a right to reverse my payment for a product just because my end client has used a chargeback against me. You’re basically saying that all a sellers earnings are always Fiverr’s to exercise control over. That’s not how it works. If Fiverr has a policy of holding funds prior to release to sellers on the basis of fraud prevention, they are committing fraud themselves by later docking balances which have already cleared.

Why hold earnings for any length of time in the first place if they will just take them back later because of a chargeback or because of CS automatically siding with a scam buyer who has decided they want a refund?

[misscrystal]

On 12/16/2017 at 3:22 PM, cyaxrex said:

Not really. If I source a merchandise from a wholesaler, even in a drop shipping context, I don’t have a right to reverse my payment for a product just because my end client has used a chargeback against me. You’re basically saying that all a sellers earnings are always Fiverr’s to exercise control over. That’s not how it works. If Fiverr has a policy of holding funds prior to release to sellers on the basis of fraud prevention, they are committing fraud themselves by later docking balances which have already cleared.

Why hold earnings for any length of time in the first place if they will just take them back later because of a chargeback or because of CS automatically siding with a scam buyer who has decided they want a refund?

@cyaxrex We are using fiverr’s Paypal. If Paypal reverses a charge we don’t get to keep the money. Neither does fiverr. It seems simple.

The money is gone. Gone from fiverr. Gone from our account. Gone from fiverr’s account. No one gets paid.

On 12/16/2017 at 3:26 PM, cyaxrex said:

You’re basically saying that all a sellers earnings are always Fiverr’s to exercise control over

No, I’m saying that all seller’s earnings are Paypal’s to exercise control over.

[wasi0013]

Your Do data mining and web scraping GIG is denied!

I noticed these types of gigs recently and was surprised they were allowed since this is a violation of copyright laws or spam laws or violates websites terms of service to do this.

In the United States, website owners can use three major legal claims to prevent undesired web scraping: (1) copyright infringement (compilation), (2) violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (“CFAA”), and (3) trespass to chattel.

Web scraping - Wikipedia

Not all of them! There are lots of publicly accessible data that are not restricted by any law. FYI, Google uses crawler (Known as Google Bot) for indexing various websites in their search list (which is a kind of web scraping/ data mining)

For example, I have done projects where I had to mine a source of malware log with millions of rows to extract useful data regarding threats/ip etc. (The log was generated by the client) and, I also had to visualize them in graphs. My last project was researching on some data structured in Keyhole Marked up Language which was delivered to the buyer as service. But, buyer needed to process them for the available information in them and extract these information in Excel file! This is also not illegal or violation of copyright.

TLDR; there are many web scraping or data mining tasks that doesn’t violate any copyright laws or spam laws.

[misscrystal]

Not all of them! There are lots of publicly accessible data that are not restricted by any law. FYI, Google uses crawler (Known as Google Bot) for indexing various websites in their search list (which is a kind of web scraping/ data mining)

For example, I have done projects where I had to mine a source of malware log with millions of rows to extract useful data regarding threats/ip etc. (The log was generated by the client) and, I also had to visualize them in graphs. My last project was researching on some data structured in Keyhole Marked up Language which was delivered to the buyer as service. But, buyer needed to process them for the available information in them and extract these information in Excel file! This is also not illegal or violation of copyright.

TLDR; there are many web scraping or data mining tasks that doesn’t violate any copyright laws or spam laws.

You’re wrong. Unless you own the original content whatever it is, which you don’t if you are scraping it, you are violating copyright laws.

In the United States, website owners can use three major legal claims to prevent undesired web scraping: (1) copyright infringement (compilation), (2) violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (“CFAA”), and (3) trespass to chattel

.

Web scraping - Wikipedia

You are in violation of three different laws when you do webscraping.

Maybe not every case of it but usually most of the time.

[uxreview]

Once the funds are released Fiverr has no right to ask the money back from you.

Where did you get this idea? Of course they do.

Where did you get this idea? Of course they do.

No they don’t. Once the funds are released and paid out to the seller it’s gone. Fiverr has no right to ask these back and they can’t hold your next order in ransom to pay for the chargeback.

It’s their responsibility to avoid chargebacks from happening.

The fact that they are giving partial and full refunds shows that they are starting to get some heat and finally acting as a responsible company. Even their TOS says that they will do their best to fight these charges because they are obligated to do this. The question here is do they actually fight back or not. That’s why sellers need to push back and not accept templates. If you don’t find for your rights then why should they.

[cyaxrex]

You’re basically saying that all a sellers earnings are always Fiverr’s to exercise control over.

No, I’m saying that all seller’s earnings are Paypal’s to exercise control over.

This is just silly. Once Fiverr has released funds to sellers, chargebacks which happen later become their problem. I have no dealing with Paypal if Fiverr allowed me to, I would take u a case with Paypal on the event of a chargeback. Fiverr doesn’t do this. It doesn’t take funds back from sellers which pertain to the order in question, it fraudulently confiscates earnings from separate orders which have been accrued since and gives these to Paypal, rather than take the hit itself which if it did, would see it work harder to challenge every chargeback on a case by case basis.

If I buy a PC from PC World right now and do a chargeback in six months, can you imagine what would hapen if PC World called in Sally who processed the order and said, “Hey, Sally, we can’t pay you this month because the customer you took an order from a few months ago just filed a chargeback with us.”

[misscrystal]

Where did you get this idea? Of course they do.

No they don’t. Once the funds are released and paid out to the seller it’s gone. Fiverr has no right to ask these back and they can’t hold your next order in ransom to pay for the chargeback.

It’s their responsibility to avoid chargebacks from happening.

The fact that they are giving partial and full refunds shows that they are starting to get some heat and finally acting as a responsible company. Even their TOS says that they will do their best to fight these charges because they are obligated to do this. The question here is do they actually fight back or not. That’s why sellers need to push back and not accept templates. If you don’t find for your rights then why should they.

No they don’t. Once the funds are released and paid out to the seller it’s gone.

Sorry but you’re wrong. Paypal can take back money after it’s paid out and so can fiverr.

Paypal can even go into someone’s bank account and retrieve money it has paid out.

Since we are using fiverr’s Paypal account to accept money from the buyer, when Paypal takes back funds, then fiverr has to take back funds from us.

It’s very simple and while you may not like it, that’s how it works.

I have been around a while and know what I’m talking about.

[uxreview]

No they don’t. Once the funds are released and paid out to the seller it’s gone.

Sorry but you’re wrong. Paypal can take back money after it’s paid out and so can fiverr.

Paypal can even go into someone’s bank account and retrieve money it has paid out.

Since we are using fiverr’s Paypal account to accept money from the buyer, when Paypal takes back funds, then fiverr has to take back funds from us.

It’s very simple and while you may not like it, that’s how it works.

I have been around a while and know what I’m talking about.

I have been around a while and know what I’m talking about.

So have I and I’ve even worked for companies dealing with these chargebacks 🙂 I haven’t worked for Fiverr, but as they are growing they will need to adjust their policies and actions.

I’ve given depositions on these when we had a class action lawsuit on our hand. Once the funds are released that’s it for Fiverr.

[misscrystal]

I have been around a while and know what I’m talking about.

So have I and I’ve even worked for companies dealing with these chargebacks 🙂 I haven’t worked for Fiverr, but as they are growing they will need to adjust their policies and actions.

I’ve given depositions on these when we had a class action lawsuit on our hand. Once the funds are released that’s it for Fiverr.

Once the funds are released that’s it for Fiverr.

How can you say that when obviously it’s not how it works? They take back money from sellers all the time.

We do not own our accounts on fiverr, fiverr owns them.

If Paypal can take money directly out of people’s bank accounts surely fiverr can take money out of our accounts.

[uxreview]

Once the funds are released that’s it for Fiverr.

How can you say that when obviously it’s not how it works? They take back money from sellers all the time.

We do not own our accounts on fiverr, fiverr owns them.

If Paypal can take money directly out of people’s bank accounts surely fiverr can take money out of our accounts.

The difference here is that they take money back from Fiverr. Seller has nothing to do with this.

[misscrystal]

The difference here is that they take money back from Fiverr. Seller has nothing to do with this.

The difference here is that they take money back from Fiverr. Seller has nothing to do with this.

So that means fiverr can’t do the same to us? How do you rationalize that?

It is not OUR money until we OWN it in our OWN bank account.

[uxreview]

Once the funds are released that’s it for Fiverr.

How can you say that when obviously it’s not how it works? They take back money from sellers all the time.

We do not own our accounts on fiverr, fiverr owns them.

If Paypal can take money directly out of people’s bank accounts surely fiverr can take money out of our accounts.

If Paypal can take money directly out of people’s bank accounts surely fiverr can take money out of our accounts.

That’s why they have the 14 day period. Once the money is gone from Fiverr account they have no claim to this. It’s gone, that’s it.

Fiverr cannot request anything back from my bank account and they can’t take money out of my future orders.

[uxreview]

The difference here is that they take money back from Fiverr. Seller has nothing to do with this.

So that means fiverr can’t do the same to us? How do you rationalize that?

It is not OUR money until we OWN it in our OWN bank account.

It is not OUR money until we OWN it in our OWN bank account.

Exactly. Once it’s released and withdrawn it’s ours.

[misscrystal]

If Paypal can take money directly out of people’s bank accounts surely fiverr can take money out of our accounts.

That’s why they have the 14 day period. Once the money is gone from Fiverr account they have no claim to this. It’s gone, that’s it.

Fiverr cannot request anything back from my bank account and they can’t take money out of my future orders.

Once the money is gone from Fiverr account they have no claim to this. It’s gone, that’s it.

Fiverr is allowed to debit our accounts. Why wouldnt it be?

Paypal is allowed to WITHDRAW MONEY FROM OUR BANK ACCOUNTS. Same thing.

[uxreview]

Once the money is gone from Fiverr account they have no claim to this. It’s gone, that’s it.

Fiverr is allowed to debit our accounts. Why wouldnt it be?

Paypal is allowed to WITHDRAW MONEY FROM OUR BANK ACCOUNTS. Same thing.

Fiverr is allowed to debit our accounts. Why wouldnt it be?

Nope and they can’t that’s why they set negative balance on Fiverr.

[misscrystal]

Fiverr is allowed to debit our accounts. Why wouldnt it be?

Nope and they can’t that’s why they set negative balance on Fiverr.

Nope and they can’t that’s why they set negative balance on Fiverr.

What do you mean by “they can’t”? They DO.

When we don’t have enough in our accounts to cover a debit, then we have a negative balance. Not sure why you can’t understand this.

[cyaxrex]

Nope and they can’t that’s why they set negative balance on Fiverr.

What do you mean by “they can’t”? They DO.

When we don’t have enough in our accounts to cover a debit, then we have a negative balance. Not sure why you can’t understand this.

It’s illegal. They’re doing it but they’re not supposed to. I could punch an old woman and steal her hand bag, just because I can do it, doesn’t make it legal, though.

[misscrystal]

It’s illegal. They’re doing it but they’re not supposed to. I could punch an old woman and steal her hand bag, just because I can do it, doesn’t make it legal, though.

Nope its not.🤨

[uxreview]

Forum is already letting me know that I send too many messages to one person, so I’m going back to the beginning to summarize my POV

• Buyer orders a gig for $200
• Seller deliver and everything is fine
• Fiverr holds the funds for 14 days in case there’s a fraud claim
• After 14 days funds are released to the seller and they withdraw that money
• A month later there’s a chargeback
• Money is already paid out to sellers bank account so Fiverr has to pay that out of their pocket
• Sellers account goes to -$200 by default.

Now, the question is should the seller accept it. The answer is no because money is already paid out and future orders have nothing to do with this.
Should Fiverr accept it? The answer is no and they should prove it to PayPal that order was delivered. I’m sure they are fighting these chargebacks because it’s their money as well, but there’s a good chance that they are not fighting every chargeback (probably the smaller ones). Why should they if sellers are OK paying off their negative balance 🙂 A lot of sellers think this is normal and that’s it.

However, eventually Fiverr will have to cover these because sellers will abandon the account if there’s no protection. That’s why they are already giving refunds to some of the orders because they know it’s easier to cover that $200 than to lose TRS.

[misscrystal]

Forum is already letting me know that I send too many messages to one person, so I’m going back to the beginning to summarize my POV

• Buyer orders a gig for $200
• Seller deliver and everything is fine
• Fiverr holds the funds for 14 days in case there’s a fraud claim
• After 14 days funds are released to the seller and they withdraw that money
• A month later there’s a chargeback
• Money is already paid out to sellers bank account so Fiverr has to pay that out of their pocket
• Sellers account goes to -$200 by default.

Now, the question is should the seller accept it. The answer is no because money is already paid out and future orders have nothing to do with this.

Should Fiverr accept it? The answer is no and they should prove it to PayPal that order was delivered. I’m sure they are fighting these chargebacks because it’s their money as well, but there’s a good chance that they are not fighting every chargeback (probably the smaller ones). Why should they if sellers are OK paying off their negative balance 🙂 A lot of sellers think this is normal and that’s it.

However, eventually Fiverr will have to cover these because sellers will abandon the account if there’s no protection. That’s why they are already giving refunds to some of the orders because they know it’s easier to cover that $200 than to lose TRS.

That’s why they are already giving refunds to some of the orders because they know it’s easier to cover than $200 than to lose TRS.

They only give refunds when Paypal does. They don’t care if they lose sellers.

[mgjohn78]

No they don’t. Once the funds are released and paid out to the seller it’s gone.

Sorry but you’re wrong. Paypal can take back money after it’s paid out and so can fiverr.

Paypal can even go into someone’s bank account and retrieve money it has paid out.

Since we are using fiverr’s Paypal account to accept money from the buyer, when Paypal takes back funds, then fiverr has to take back funds from us.

It’s very simple and while you may not like it, that’s how it works.

I have been around a while and know what I’m talking about.

Sorry but you’re wrong. Paypal can take back money after it’s paid out and so can fiverr.

Sure they can, they can also snatch your wallet when your not looking. Having the ability to do something does not make it legal.

[misscrystal]

Sorry but you’re wrong. Paypal can take back money after it’s paid out and so can fiverr.

Sure they can, they can also snatch your wallet when your not looking. Having the ability to do something does not make it legal.

OH for heavens sake you guys!

It is legal. It is how things work. I know it sucks but this is how it has always been and how it always will be and apparently there is no way to explain it to you.

[uxreview]

OH for heavens sake you guys!

It is legal. It is how things work. I know it sucks but this is how it has always been and how it always will be and apparently there is no way to explain it to you.

Maybe it’s always been like this on Fiverr. I can’t argue with that 🙂

If it should happen to me then I wouldn’t accept it because I know this is not how it works in other companies 😉

I would rather drop my account than pay off $800 gig.

[miiila]

Forum is already letting me know that I send too many messages to one person, so I’m going back to the beginning to summarize my POV

• Buyer orders a gig for $200
• Seller deliver and everything is fine
• Fiverr holds the funds for 14 days in case there’s a fraud claim
• After 14 days funds are released to the seller and they withdraw that money
• A month later there’s a chargeback
• Money is already paid out to sellers bank account so Fiverr has to pay that out of their pocket
• Sellers account goes to -$200 by default.

Now, the question is should the seller accept it. The answer is no because money is already paid out and future orders have nothing to do with this.

Should Fiverr accept it? The answer is no and they should prove it to PayPal that order was delivered. I’m sure they are fighting these chargebacks because it’s their money as well, but there’s a good chance that they are not fighting every chargeback (probably the smaller ones). Why should they if sellers are OK paying off their negative balance 🙂 A lot of sellers think this is normal and that’s it.

However, eventually Fiverr will have to cover these because sellers will abandon the account if there’s no protection. That’s why they are already giving refunds to some of the orders because they know it’s easier to cover that $200 than to lose TRS.

From my POV, the default should already be the 50%, and any case, at least above some amount, if it´s not a case like credit card theft, or there´s no chance to prove that the ordered work was delivered, should be fought, automatically, not just if a seller complains. But I also think they are working on this. 🙂