williambryan392

There have been 2 webinar versions as far as I can tell: New freelancer levels, more transparency (last week) Ask Me Anything: New Level System (today) They were pretty similar but the key takeaways for me from both were: - Cancelations that are included in the SS but shouldn't be are being looked into/solved - Some account flagging was incorrect and again being looked into/solved - SS / positioning is relative to other sellers - Revisions/extensions don't automatically harm your score, the system is clever and knows when they're for a good reason and when they're not.

From what I understand (read/webinar/prior marketplace knowledge), and of course I may be wrong... I think deleting a low performing gig will have a positive impact on the overall success score. HOWEVER, what do we mean by low performing? I think there are broadly speaking two kinds of 'low performing' gigs: 1) Low order gigs: Removing lower performing/low order gigs, which are lower performing because they have fewer orders / lower conversion than your other gigs (and other things we don't know) will have less impact on the SS by definition because there isn't much data/reviews behind them compared to your other gigs, good or bad. These gigs would have low impact on your SS. They just aren't powerful enough to impact it. 2) Low (private) feedback gigs: Removing lower performing/low feedback gigs, which have lots of orders, but are likely judged as lower performing because the traditional buyer satisfaction score (private reviews) is low, would have more impact on your SS. There's more data, and so it's more powerful. To be honest I'm a bit confused just writing this and I've had a long day, but I think that makes sense? Short version: Low order gigs (less data) don't have strong impact on SS. High order gigs (more data) do have strong impact on SS.

Just a thought, but as they 'tweak' things, e.g. not taking some cancelations into account, this will improve some seller success scores, and if your seller success score is relative to others it could be the reason you've seen it drop. There can't be many I guess. You are an OG! Fiverr started in Feb 2010, what month did you join?

So did I! Very helpful. Try using a lower case 'd', not capitalised 'D'

@abdulmuizz667, I'm happy to reply to you, but I can't do anything to help. I am just a seller like you (and sometimes a buyer). The only people who can help are the support team. The below are 3 other threads with other sellers talking about the same issue that you might want to read:

Hello @abdulmuizz667, I'm sorry to hear you're having this issue with your account. I can also see you're reasonably new to the forum (welcome!). For account help you need to send that message to Fiverr Support. So please either email them at support@fiverr.com, or open a ticket here: https://www.fiverr.com/support_tickets . Please note that the forum is 99.99% buyers and sellers, and you can't get specific account help here. Good luck!

Thanks for this @frank_d, haven't seen you around much recently and it's good to get your insight! I said it, but maybe someone else did too (both of us purely guessing as I haven't seen anything official).

Execute, execute, execute. Don't overthink what you want to do, just get started. You won't build your vision on day 1, but you can start your MVP on day 1. Buy the URL, get the logo done, hire a copywriter, whatever. Stop thinking, start doing. You'll only get to v2 by having v1, v3 by having v2.

She's actually breaking ToS, from what I've seen she has multiple accounts... 😉 😆 Jokes aside, this would be a great use of AI to weed these out. Same with people that have directly copied my gigs, and even my bio. Thanks @newsmike, I think you're a tough judge (in a good way) so I appreciate that. I get the feeling, but I also think this is why they have to charge 20% on tips. People would game it otherwise. This is (in part) why we can't have nice things. I also agree with the need to fix the things on the backlog!

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear this. This is just horrible.

I'm guessing they expect a lot of movement between level 1 & 2, both up and down especially if we have daily evaluations and know it will be painful constantly pausing and unpausing gigs.

So this definitely doesn't make sense to me, how you can be the quality of a TRS, and then go to 0. Scratching my head! Also, re the people that are in fact agencies, I recall it being a requirement that you have to be clear if you use a team, but like you I see a number of sellers not doing this. I'm also concerned being compared to people that are in fact agencies!

Again I could be wrong (it's all a bit crazy right now) but I think this means under the same user name. I joined as a buyer on Fiverr, and had my buyer account, then I wanted to also sell so I had to activate being a seller under the same account/username. On my one/current account I can toggle between being a seller (and seeing all the seller stuff) and being a buyer (and seeing all the buyer stuff). Ah ok, so maybe that isn't the problem. I'd be confused as well.

Jumping in to say I think that's the problem @yonixer. You can only have one account. You're supposed to use the same account for both buying and selling. You're not supposed to have an account for each. Maybe that's not the problem, but I think it might be.

I think we have very similar methodologies! Like you 99% of my clients are great, and I think a huge part of that is the pricing.

Yep I get that too! Frustrating. Or 'I need a free call to see if I want to pay for a call'. Hmmmm, no thank you.

That hit me too. I think they are working on that according to an acknowledgment they made on the main post/thread. Massive agree with you on this. I don't these should be automatic negatives.

Fair enough! I would counter that just because they're not replying to everyone here, or changing what they're doing (at least yet) that doesn't mean they're not aware of and paying attention to this (listening). And this is where I have massive sympathy, it's truly sad to read this. I don't relish anyone having a bad/hard time. You've been here since 2010, you're literally an OG Fiverr seller!

Good point well made. Doing it retroactively (and based on 2 years) means it's hard to shift the needle let alone in just 30 days. Yep, agree, it's their house, and I do think the decisions they make are data-led. I don't think they are making these decisions out of an emotional response.

I get you. I suppose the problem would be that there are so many sellers with thousands or even tens of thousands of reviews that it would take too long for the new system to effectively balance sellers out, thereby disadvantaging newer sellers. You know where I am! 😆

Firstly this is just my opinion, there is no incentive for me to share the below, Fiverr hasn't asked me to do this and given the way the community is responding I’m aware I could get some (a lot of) disagreement with this. For context, I’m a TRS/Pro and have replaced my prior financial services/tech income using Fiverr. To be transparent I’m also a forum m0d, but please don’t think that means you can’t disagree with me. I’m not someone that hides posts, or blocks/warns people for disagreeing, only if someone is abusive/grossly unprofessional. Free speech is important so don’t be shy. I have learned a lot from this community over the last few years, users like @imagination7413, @frank_d, @damooch916, @vickieito @breals @visualstudios @newsmike to name a few (I know I'm missing loads) have been awesome, and from time to time I’ve tried to contribute positively myself to help others. I also think it's great to see established sellers like @levinewman sharing their thoughts/concerns on these changes and also being heard by Fiverr. That doesn't mean they'll act on it, they don't owe us that, but at least they're listening. Anyway, here we go… I get why you’re annoyed. I would be too. Everything looked great on your profile, with lots of 5* ratings and buyers leaving great written reviews. Maybe you thought this new level system was going to get you to TRS (often seen as the holy grail of Fiverr success). Then BAM, you’re dropping a level or more when you thought everything was going great. It's kind of like getting dumped by a partner when they told you they loved you the day before. The thing is, there were probably problems you weren't seeing. You feel discarded and unloved, but the only thing you can do is learn and change. So I’ll say again, I would be annoyed/confused/frustrated/upset too. It’s a gut punch, and not expected. I have both empathy and sympathy for you. I mean that sincerely. Now, I’m going to make some assumptions/(potentially obvious) statements… Fiverr isn’t making up the data it's using. It has always been there, you just haven’t had visibility of it in the same way you do now, and it hasn’t been contributing to your overall score/level until now. Fiverr is fixing the bugs. Bugs do happen, it can be a 1 person startup or Google, and bugs still get through. I think Fiverr will want to know why as much as we do, that doesn’t mean they’ll tell us why, but they don’t want bugs any more than we do and will fix them. Fiverr wants buyers to be happy. Stating the obvious, every seller knows this, but I think they saw a trend of buyers saying they were happy publicly when in fact they were less happy privately, and this was causing buyers to make the ‘wrong’ decision when picking a freelancer based on the public information. They tried to fix it with private reviews, and this is a further evolution of that. Fiverr wants sellers to be happy (it may not feel like it right now). Like any marketplace, Fiverr is a 2 sided ecosystem, and there needs to be a symbiosis between the 2 sides. I do believe that fundamentally Fiverr wants sellers to be successful, because if they have successful sellers, they can have buyers who get what they want, and if both sides are happy, Fiverr makes money. However, most marketplaces prioritize buyers over sellers. Uber, doordash, airbnb, you name it. It’s necessary to maintain the ecosystem. It’s far cheaper to acquire a seller/provider than a buyer. Algorithms are massively complicated. There are hundreds (thousands!?) of data points potentially now included, coupled maybe even with AI doing some analysis. We cannot expect every SM/CS agent/product owner/developer (or even the CEO himself!) to understand it entirely. Every account, with all its data points from all the various reviews (as well as profile setup, gig setup, everything) makes every seller account unique. This means it’s almost impossible for someone at Fiverr to give you 100% concrete feedback on why something is the way it is. I’m NOT saying everything is perfect, and I want to provide a balanced view so to be transparent I will share the things that concern me, and also show I'm not a Fiverr shill... Cancellations shouldn’t automatically be considered a fail. I once had a buyer spend 4 figures on a business plan, and when I met with him it was clear that he didn’t in fact need a business plan (I won’t go into detail on why) but I don’t want to sell things people don’t need, and so we agreed to cancel. He was thrilled and went on and spent money with other sellers who could give him what he did need. Support did amend my OCR when I explained why, but this could have still privately impacted me which I don’t think is right. Buyers make mistakes ordering, they change their minds, and stuff happens. Sellers shouldn’t be penalized for giving a buyer a good experience by canceling. Revisions are part of the creative process. The healthy way to view revisions is that it’s an opportunity to get the work to the best possible standard according to the buyer's expectations and your ability. I don’t think revisions in themselves should penalize the seller, it shouldn’t be automatically classed as conflict, but obviously, there’s a line, and sometimes excessive revisions are because the seller has overpromised and massively underdelivered. I once had a pitch deck go through 15 rounds because the buyer changed practically everything, the name, the logo, the colour scheme, the market, the product/service. You name it, they changed it and it ended up being an entirely different business. I think I overdelivered, but this probably counted against me. Response time can be brutal to maintain. I know the feeling of wanting to reply quickly, you want to close the sale, and it’s important buyers get a timely reply so I understand why it’s judged by Fiverr. This pressure gave me burnout, and I actually started to actively reply slower. This meant I avoided getting into back-and-forth conversations. I used to be at 1 hour response time for my first year, and I was most recently at 3 hours (I focused on it for the last couple of months once I got my energy back), but for the second half of last year I was at 6 hours, and in December it hit 10 hours. This January was still my best month for revenue. My point is don’t overly sweat it, I think decent buyers know you have other clients & commitments, and good buyers understand waiting for a few (or more) hours for good sellers. With so many data points it’s now become less important overall. The rating and review form is complicated. I’ve had buyers message saying it’s confusing, it’s time-consuming, or even apologizing as that was not the review they wanted to leave when I asked what I could have done better. Note I’m not asking them to change it (that’s not allowed), I just ask if they have any pointers on how I could have done more to help, especially when they've already decided to work with me further. They say nothing, it was great. They could be lying, but given I work with all my buyers on Zoom I think I know them reasonably well enough to judge if they're being disingenuous, and they buy again, and they tip me. The ratings/emojis should be linear IMO, and I think the value for money is a bit of a flawed concept. I also don't like professional work being judged by emojis, but it's not my platform, it's Fiverr's. Promoted gig inbox message/follow-up message feature. Promoted gigs have helped me get sales, but promoted inbox messages have instead led to questions and even anger. ‘Why did you message me’, ‘this is spam’, ‘leave me alone’. I have to explain it’s not me, but Fiverr. This means I’ve avoided promoting my gigs that cost more and just left the cheaper CPC ones promoting. Order page auto messages to fill in requirements ( @mandyzines lol), or join consultation calls. I find these automated messages to not be well structured, or overly polite. They’re very blunt, and I would rather control the messaging to my buyers myself rather than rely on automated messages. It makes me wonder what the promoted gig message says. The consultation feature needs a buffer. This is to prevent back-to-back calls which ultimately means a call either starts late or finishes early, which no buyer wants. Fiverr communication. With hindsight, I think more could have been done to prepare the community for the inevitable level drops (assuming Fiverr crunched the numbers for the impact beforehand), but maybe they didn’t expect it. The communication needs to be aligned as we are receiving some mixed messages. I also think it’s unreasonable for us to expect @Kesha to respond to everyone. That’s what support or your SM is for, but as per my earlier algo point, they can only know, or indeed share so much. Communication also goes both ways and beating down on Fiverr staff is never going to get you what you want. I think it can also undermine valid feedback, so be constructive. It’s easy to be a keyboard warrior, and I think you should only say on the internet what you’d say to someone's face. Buyer ratings. There needs to be a better way to rate buyers. Seller insights feature was a great step and very helpful. But still, I'm a coward, and rate every buyer as 'Great Buyer' because if I say anything else they could burn me with the private review out of spite. So, I want to leave you, my fellow sellers, with these sentiments… This is a one-month transition, let's watch this space... Fiverr does want you to be successful because if you’re not then they won’t be either. I believe this change was done to make things better, not worse. It might not seem like it, but they will be listening (but that doesn't mean they'll implement what you want). You built success before on Fiverr when so many others tried and failed. You learned what it took to get great feedback and keep clients happy with the old system. You can learn how to be successful with the new system. You’re great at what you do? That means you’re capable, and you can do this. The game is still the same, but the rules have been updated. You don’t need to be level whatever to make money. I know a level 2 doing 5 figures a month, and a TRS doing 3 figures a month. Remember the person, whether they are Fiverr staff, or your fellow buyers and sellers (or me as you respond to this!). I'll say again I think it's great the community is giving feedback, that the forum is active and people are sharing and learning from each other. I mean it and I stated at the start that free speech is important. Perhaps above all remember you don’t work for Fiverr, you work on Fiverr, so make Fiverr work for you. Treat it as a business, adapt to the market, and of course don’t rely on one customer/platform/revenue stream to put food on the table. Evolve or die, that's the brutal truth, and it's true of however or wherever you make your income. You never know what's around the corner. Just my overly long 2 cents, and if I'm a level 0 in a month I might be making a dramatically different post, but I'll also be thinking what I can do to improve, to add value, and to grow again. Feel free to beat me up, venting is healthy!

I understand, and this is just my guesswork... Auto-completed orders may not affect your account negatively. Orders that are accepted affect your account positively. Orders that are also rated (positively) also affect your account positively.

Perhaps not directly, but indirectly, when compared to other orders from competitor sellers, if their orders are being accepted (success point), and then rated (another success point) then I think indirectly you will be negatively impacted. (Obviously this is me speculating).

I get you, but I expect she's been tagged maybe hundreds of times today and is in firefighting mode, answering what she can when she can. I expect the other questions are being noted and further info sought, and there have been comments from her stating that it's all being noted. I had the same conversation with CS last night re the cancelation metric and I got 3 canned replies so in the end I gave up and flagged to my SM. It was a painful experience. Today we get the info that it was mistakenly included. Given the bugs, and the lack of info I don't blame Kesha for playing it safe, and only adding info that is known to be correct.

I think a lot of what needs to be said was already said, and I won't add to it overly. There are now so many data points included in the ongoing evaluation, and it is much more complex, including I think AI judging communication amongst other things. For all this to be done correctly takes a lot of thought and a lot of work. Algos are incredibly complicated, and few (including me) could ever understand them. I admire Fiverr for innovating but something doesn't seem right. Cancelations that shouldn't have been included have in fact been included (kudos for acknowledging this and being open about it) and I've seen a TRS with 0.2 as a score. As well as a lot of sudden location issues (maybe naughty sellers are being caught, or maybe it's a bug). So my biggest concern is this... These are the easy-to-spot bugs/issues we see and my concern is that there could well be other bugs we don't. If these can make it through the QA process, then what harder-to-spot things did too? I think 'trust' is really important between platforms and users, and whilst the intention might have been to improve transparency and trust, these bugs run the risk of doing the opposite. So, due to what's happened, I wonder if there will be a thorough code review to ensure other things haven't slipped through, or the QA process amended, or the changes rolled back or the one month implementation extended to allow for changes. I think transparency is now more important than ever so I hope we learn more. (I'll also add that we should remember @Kesha is the messenger here, not customer support, or a developer or a success manager (I think!), so let's not shoot the messenger and if you need specific account feedback then contact support or your SM.)