Suggestion: Fiverr could have some system in place to try to make sure buyers' revison requests are reasonable

[uk1000]

Fiverr could have some system in place (algorithm/AI) to try to make sure buyer's revision requests (even if entered in messages/posts on the order page and they aren't using the revision request button for it) are reasonable. eg. asking for 20 or 30 complex/very time consuming changes in a very low priced order wouldn't be reasonable so the system could prompt them to try to keep things reasonable and maybe if they continued Fiverr staff could check and then make suggestions.

So the system could take into account things like the price of the order, how time consuming or complex each element of the request was (whether in a proper revision request or a post/message) as well as all past ones related to that order, and then maybe put a system message to the buyer asking them (in the right words) to try to be more reasonable given the price of the order.

Edited February 19, 2024 by uk1000

[donnovan86]

50 minutes ago, uk1000 said:

Fiverr could have some system in place (algorithm/AI) to try to make sure buyer's revision requests (even if entered in messages/posts on the order page and they aren't using the revision request button for it) are reasonable.

I don't think you want to leave subjective stuff like that in the hands of AI. The more reasonable thing would be to not factor in revisions and extensions into the success score, because those are very subjective. A lot of buyers will ask for a revision request even for a comma, while some will ask for a revision request because they dislike the entire project. That's a MASSIVE difference, yet the seller is penalized either way. 

[texvox]

20 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I don't think you want to leave subjective stuff like that in the hands of AI. The more reasonable thing would be to not factor in revisions and extensions into the success score, because those are very subjective. A lot of buyers will ask for a revision request even for a comma, while some will ask for a revision request because they dislike the entire project. That's a MASSIVE difference, yet the seller is penalized either way. 

Agreed - AI is probably not going to be the best route to determine what constitutes a reasonable revision. 

I'm also completely on board with not factoring revisions into the equation. I just had a buyer hit the "request revision" button because he couldn't figure out how to extend the delivery review window on his end. Will this now ding me for "Conflict free orders"? Unfortunately I'd be willing to put a few bucks down that it will, and this sort of thing happens all the time. 

[uk1000]

It doesn't even need to be about the success score. If there are high number of time consuming requests (posts/messages/actual requests) created for a low enough priced order it could just start suggesting to the buyer to keep them a reasonable amount and the system could ask Fiverr staff to check it if they continue. Just so sellers don't get buyers taking advantage of by buyers keeping changing unreasonably (just because they feel like changing stuff, when they could have specified it more exactly initially and not kept changing their mind). It could come to a point where it's really not economical to keep working on an order (but cancelling would also have a big effect).

22 minutes ago, texvox said:

AI is probably not going to be the best route to determine what constitutes a reasonable revision

It could take into account the gig's subcategory and how much time it usually takes for similar requests (posts/messages/actual requests) to be done and uploaded to try to work out how much work is being asked for, as well as the price of each order (eg. asking for stuff needing many hours of work for tiny $ amount).

22 minutes ago, texvox said:

I'm also completely on board with not factoring revisions into the equation. I just had a buyer hit the "request revision" button because he couldn't figure out how to extend the delivery review window on his end

The AI could take into account the text of each change request (not just the pressing of the revision request button or number of standard revision requests created for an order) to try to determine how much time/effort it might take each to do, based on what the order is for (including the requirements section text), the subcategory etc. and past similar orders made with sellers there.

Edited February 19, 2024 by uk1000

[donnovan86]

22 minutes ago, texvox said:

Will this now ding me for "Conflict free orders"? Unfortunately I'd be willing to put a few bucks down that it will, and this sort of thing happens all the time. 

It depends. I still think that not a single revision is the issue, instead multiple revisions and deliveries. From one of the links provided by Kesha I saw that multiple deliveries seem to be the issue. Which are obviously caused by revisions. 

[charlsmcfarlane]

15 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

It depends. I still think that not a single revision is the issue, instead multiple revisions and deliveries. From one of the links provided by Kesha I saw that multiple deliveries seem to be the issue. Which are obviously caused by revisions. 

So putting more work into pleasing the customer hurts the seller’s success score? 🫠

[andywarburton]

It would be nice if Fiverr actually honoured the revision limit we set on our gigs!

I literally have no idea why this setting exists when it does absolutely nothing.

Edited February 19, 2024 by andywarburton

[voicedbyken]

99% of the revisions I get are from discounted orders. They're usually not legitimate revisions, but additional work, new scripts, additional variations of the same script that were not previously mentioned, adding gig-extras like music, and other production elements without paying for them, and then withdrawing the offers for the requested extras. This type of buyer comes in 2 flavors - 1. Work you until you cancel the order so they get the work for free. 2. Work you as much as they possibly can to get more bang for their $ and leave a negative review publically or privately, because you finally said "I'm sorry, but I've already given you far more than you had paid for as well as the 50% discount".

For revisions and extensions to count against us is BS.

 

The same goes for private reviews. I can very likely point out the folks who gave me mine. They are the above-mentioned. They are the ones who defraud the word count by placing a 100-word order and sending me a 1000-word script and when I send the offer to adjust for the missing words they throw a fit in the chat and eventually pay the amount and leave no public review.  They are the ones who order "for personal use" an ad spot they even admit to me will run on the radio advertising their business and when sent the offer for commercial or broadcast rights [both highlighted and bold in my description] will call me a swindler, a cheat, a bait'n'switch scammer and leave no review at the end of the order. They are the ones who ignore all such requests and never say a word though you see them online multiple times a day and they leave no public review.

These are the sort of people leaving private reviews. Not upstanding, honest buyers who are merely afraid of backlash from an upset seller. We get punished for the passive-aggressive behind-the-scenes bad actor who has 200 orders under their account with an "average rating given" score of 3 stars who knows that they can get around the actual price of the seller.

This is what we're up against. This is who Fiverr is protecting.

[visualstudios]

1 hour ago, andywarburton said:

It would be nice if Fiverr actually honoured the revision limit we set on our gigs!

I literally have no idea why this setting exists when it does absolutely nothing.

This. That idea does nothing, the revision system is broken. It can never be implemented.

[nicks_voice]

Enforce a gig's revision limit from a system-level:

When a buyer requests a revision when they've either ran out of free revisions, or for gigs that don't offer free revisions, have a text box appear that lets us input the cost of the revision immediately under the request to send to the client. Once the fee is sent and accepted, the order will actually go into revision mode. If it's declined, the order goes back to the "delivered" status.

As it stands, if a gig offers no revisions or the buyer has already used all their free revisions, it still lets them request more. This means we have to manually send revision fees via custom offers or the resolution center which takes up a lot of time. 

Additional QOL:

1. When a client requests a revision, let us manually enter warning text that appears displaying our revision policies. They would have to manually confirm this before continuing. This frees up FAQ/gig description space.
2. For empty revision notes, have a popup warning.
3. Allow timestamped revision comments to be viewed on mobile. 
4. Show a counter of remaining free revision requests on the revision button.

How these changes help everyone:

This solution would free up ours, and also customer support's time, while also making it clear to buyers about how many revisions they're actually granted when purchasing a gig.

Edited September 28, 2024 by nicks_voice

[andywarburton]

Also don't allow buyers to request revisions on projects that don't include revisions! 

For my service I offer a sort of "consulting" service. I deliver, you get the consulting, there is no revising my consultation. I frequently get people using revisions to ask follow up questions (which I'm fine with), instead of just using the chat which is super frustrating because in order to "deliver the revision" I have to type up my response in a doc, export it as a PDF and upload it to Fiverr which is a ridiculous waste of my time and energy.

[newsmike]

3 hours ago, nicks_voice said:

From here if the buyer is still unhappy, they can still request a cancellation so it's fair for everyone.

This would be a problem in that you would perform work, then a buyer requests revisions that are not included. If they decline, why give them a cancellation?  Then they will use your original delivery, they get a refund, and you are working for free? Even TOS protects you from this when it states:

“orders are not eligible to be cancelled based on the quality of service/materials delivered by the seller if the service was rendered as described in the gig page."

https://www.fiverr.com/terms_of_service

Far better that if they accept the charges, we proceed, if they decline, they keep their delivered work, and you keep your money. 
 

 

[newsmike]

3 hours ago, andywarburton said:

Also don't allow buyers to request revisions on projects that don't include revisions! 

For my service I offer a sort of "consulting" service. I deliver, you get the consulting, there is no revising my consultation. I frequently get people using revisions to ask follow up questions (which I'm fine with), instead of just using the chat which is super frustrating because in order to "deliver the revision" I have to type up my response in a doc, export it as a PDF and upload it to Fiverr which is a ridiculous waste of my time and energy.

You have to let them request revisions. The issue is that you don't have to do them for free if they have either used up the ones in the original order or none we included originally. Imagine you buy a logo for $2,000. You have used up your 2 revisions, but your boss asks for a third revision. You can easily make the case that they need to pay for the 3rd revision, that's fair, but saying that they need to throw out the logo since you won't provide additional PAID revisions is absolutely unprofessional. 

[newsmike]

I continue to be amazed at the sellers here who don't understand that you don't deny service to anyone, but you simply charge additional fees once they have used up what they have purchased. I do agree that when the number of revisions in the gig have been exhausted that the text on the revision button should change to "Purchase a revision" as opposed to "Request a revision"

[newsmike]

I don't see Fiverr making it easier to cancel, costing them and you money. It is in your and their best interest to sell additional revisions. 

[maitasun]

To be honest, there should be some kind of block on the revision button. Too many buyers press that button just to ask questions instead of using the order chat, and to make things even worse, they wait until the last minute before the 3-day completion period expires...

[newsmike]

5 minutes ago, maitasun said:

To be honest, there should be some kind of block on the revision button. Too many buyers press that button just to ask questions instead of using the order chat, and to make things even worse, they wait until the last minute before the 3-day completion period expires...

What if after 3 days, pressing the revisions button simply started a chat? This way there could be a discussion about what was needed and whether it was included in the gig, or would be an extra charge? Let seller send offer to start process if needed. No automatic reopening of the order?

Edited March 20, 2024 by newsmike

[maitasun]

31 minutes ago, newsmike said:

What if after 3 days, pressing the revisions button simply started a chat? This way there could be a discussion about what was needed and whether it was included in the gig, or would be an extra charge? Let seller send offer to start process if needed. No automatic reopening of the order?

The problem is not after 3 days because the order will be already closed. The issue is before the 3-day period expires, especially when requesting this kind of 'revision' at the last minute, making the order to be marked as late by the system. Fiverr is saying revisions now count against us, so it's not fun to have this type of requests just before the order completes and then see our very smart AI deciding our buyers aren't satisfied enough...

[donnovan86]

10 minutes ago, nicks_voice said:

Ive read so many conflicting things about this, I can’t seem to get a straight answer. Is there official documentation of this somewhere?

Kesha said that revisions and extensions won't count against us. However, excessive revisions and extensions might end up making customers unhappy, which brings a bad review, be it public or private. At least that's what she posted regarding this topic. 

[charlsmcfarlane]

I agree with a lot of this. This was my suggestion for a fix, which isn’t too dissimilar.

https://community.fiverr.com/forums/topic/307955-systematically-restrict-revisions/

[charlsmcfarlane]

12 hours ago, andywarburton said:

Also don't allow buyers to request revisions on projects that don't include revisions! 

For my service I offer a sort of "consulting" service. I deliver, you get the consulting, there is no revising my consultation. I frequently get people using revisions to ask follow up questions (which I'm fine with), instead of just using the chat which is super frustrating because in order to "deliver the revision" I have to type up my response in a doc, export it as a PDF and upload it to Fiverr which is a ridiculous waste of my time and energy.

I agree with this a lot. I offer training sessions via zoom. Once a buyer has had an hour of training, for example, the work is objectively done. The work is the time. I don’t have a Time Machine and I won’t be giving them more free time, so revisions are not possible and therefore not offered.