If Fiverr is serious about retaining pro talent...

[ericmberman]

1. Abolish the response rate system — I don’t want to be a cog in a Fiverr-machine hellbent on communication optimization, yet Fiverr insists that I behave like a chat bot.
2. Take less off the top — 20% is too much.
3. Reduce the waiting period for payment — Forcing me to pay $40/month plus 1% of my earnings on top of the 20% Fiverr already takes just so I can get paid in a timely manner is cruel. 
4. Make deadlines time and day — Scheduling by day-units is impractical. 
5. Make deadlines optional — No-deadline contracts should be an option for buyers and sellers who are on the same page.
6. Require the requirements — The project should not begin until the seller approves the buyer’s requirements submission.
7. Seller-initiated cancellations should not affect visibility — Fiverr is not my employer; I should be able to cancel an order at my discretion without consequence.
8. Bring back Vacation Mode — I deserve a vacation.

[donnovan86]

I mean, most of this stuff is either in Seller Plus or it's made in such a way to prevent cheating.

7 hours ago, ericmberman said:

Abolish the response rate system — I don’t want to be a cog in a Fiverr-machine hellbent on communication optimization, yet Fiverr insists that I behave like a chat bot.

How else do you expect Fiverr to provide people with someone that replies quickly, if that's what they want?

7 hours ago, ericmberman said:

Take less off the top — 20% is too much.

You can search the Fiverr Forum, a lot of sellers agree that promoting your portfolio online would cost you way, way more and and that's before any transaction fees.

7 hours ago, ericmberman said:

Reduce the waiting period for payment — Forcing me to pay $40/month plus 1% of my earnings on top of the 20% Fiverr already takes just so I can get paid in a timely manner is cruel. 

If you become a top rated seller, it's reduced to 7 days. Or if you become a seller plus member, you get the same benefit. However, they don't take 1% extra unless you want instant withdrawals..

7 hours ago, ericmberman said:

Make deadlines optional — No-deadline contracts should be an option for buyers and sellers who are on the same page.

A lot of unlawful sellers are already not caring about deadlines and they make buyers made, what you want here would make Fiverr a true No Man's Land 🙂

7 hours ago, ericmberman said:

• Require the requirements — The project should not begin until the seller approves the buyer’s requirements submission.
•  

They added this to Seller Plus where you can have a Request to Order, buyers can't order unless they talk with you first.

7 hours ago, ericmberman said:

• Seller-initiated cancellations should not affect visibility — Fiverr is not my employer; I should be able to cancel an order at my discretion without consequence.
•  

This is prone to so much abuse.... There's a reason why they shifted to sellers being penalized for cancellations, because a lot of people would just cancel the order to avoid any bad review or stuff like that. So instead if the buyer did something wrong, you can go to customer support and they remove the cancellation penalty. I understand why they did it, because they want more control. 

7 hours ago, ericmberman said:

Bring back Vacation Mode — I deserve a vacation

I think you are better off just extending the deadline for your gigs while you are away. Or you can go to your profile page and choose unavailability dates... So there is a feature for this.

[emberman]

These are suggestions for Fiverr Pro. If Fiverr is serious about retaining high-level talent (a task at which they are currently failing) these suggestions will help. 
 

I had already considered each one of your counterarguments before writing the post. You’re missing the point and shooting the messenger…
 

Fiverr is welcome to do as they please, but high-level talents do not want to be treated like cogs in a machine. 

[emberman]

4 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

I mean, most of this stuff is either in Seller Plus or it's made in such a way to prevent cheating.

Literally none of this stuff is in Seller Plus. I have Seller Plus. That’s why I’m paying $40/month + 1% just so I can get paid same day, which is when I should be getting paid in the first place.

4 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

How else do you expect Fiverr to provide people with someone that replies quickly, if that's what they want?

Fiverr also ”wants” to retain high-level talent. 

4 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

You can search the Fiverr Forum, a lot of sellers agree that promoting your portfolio online would cost you way, way more and and that's before any transaction fees.

I think this is false, but at least it’s a valid argument.

4 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

If you become a top rated seller, it's reduced to 7 days. Or if you become a seller plus member, you get the same benefit. However, they don't take 1% extra unless you want instant withdrawals..

See earlier reply.

4 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

A lot of unlawful sellers are already not caring about deadlines and they make buyers made, what you want here would make Fiverr a true No Man's Land 🙂

They added this to Seller Plus where you can have a Request to Order, buyers can't order unless they talk with you first.

First of all, Seller Plus is invite-only, so any argument you use that hinges on Seller Plus is invalid by default. Second of all, the Seller Plus feature is different from what I’m talking about: I’m recommending a system where after the order is placed, the project countdown does not begin until the requirements are manually approved by the seller. 

4 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

This is prone to so much abuse.... There's a reason why they shifted to sellers being penalized for cancellations, because a lot of people would just cancel the order to avoid any bad review or stuff like that. So instead if the buyer did something wrong, you can go to customer support and they remove the cancellation penalty. I understand why they did it, because they want more control. 
 

Again, these are suggestions for Fiverr Pro. If they can’t trust the pros they personally vetted, they are failing at their purported talent mission.

4 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

I think you are better off just extending the deadline for your gigs while you are away. Or you can go to your profile page and choose unavailability dates... So there is a feature for this.

Or they could just bring back vacation mode, a more humane and practical solution. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by emberman

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, emberman said:

Or they could just bring back vacation mode, a more humane and practical solution. 

Vacation mode had problems when people got deranked. That tool I told you about it's the same thing, instead of pressing a single button to say Vacation it actually allows you to choose the exact return date, so it's pretty much the same thing. For a lot of people vacation mode was a nightmare because customers were still able to place orders sometimes, so that was not exactly great. 

2 hours ago, emberman said:

Again, these are suggestions for Fiverr Pro. If they can’t trust the pros they personally vetted, they are failing at their purported talent mission.

6 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Well you do realize there was a Pro seller which was selling their account for quite a bit of money, right? And just because people have the Pro accumen that doesn't mean they will always have it. 

2 hours ago, emberman said:

First of all, Seller Plus is invite-only, so any argument you use that hinges on Seller Plus is invalid by default. Second of all, the Seller Plus feature is different from what I’m talking about: I’m recommending a system where after the order is placed, the project countdown does not begin until the requirements are manually approved by the seller. 

6 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

I think pretty much any Pro seller has a manager to talk with, so they can ask for an invite to that Seller Plus program. That won't be an issue. As for your system, Fiverr won't do it because they want to make the buyer's process simple and seamless. As a buyer, when you initiate the order you are already paying for it, so you think Fiverr would just keep someone's money in escrow just to refund because you want to say no? That's why they added this Request to Order feature. It's a more humane solution where buyers can talk with the seller and if it's all good, they can send a custom offer. What you're saying has already been suggested by a lot of people, and it won't happen because Fiverr just does not work this way. 

[ericmberman]

37 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Vacation mode had problems when people got deranked. That tool I told you about it's the same thing, instead of pressing a single button to say Vacation it actually allows you to choose the exact return date, so it's pretty much the same thing. For a lot of people vacation mode was a nightmare because customers were still able to place orders sometimes, so that was not exactly great. 

There should be an option to take a vacation without ANY negative consequences. If the solution you're suggesting achieves this, then I agree. 

37 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

Well you do realize there was a Pro seller which was selling their account for quite a bit of money, right?

What's your point?

37 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

And just because people have the Pro accumen that doesn't mean they will always have it. 

What's your point?

37 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I think pretty much any Pro seller has a manager to talk with, so they can ask for an invite to that Seller Plus program. That won't be an issue.

I can ASK my manager for anything. That doesn't mean he'll give it to me lol. 

37 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

As for your system, Fiverr won't do it because they want to make the buyer's process simple and seamless. As a buyer, when you initiate the order you are already paying for it, so you think Fiverr would just keep someone's money in escrow just to refund because you want to say no? That's why they added this Request to Order feature. It's a more humane solution where buyers can talk with the seller and if it's all good, they can send a custom offer.

They can cancel anytime and get a full refund. There is nothing inhumane about this. 

37 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

What you're saying has already been suggested by a lot of people, and it won't happen because Fiverr just does not work this way. 

"What is will not be." – Anonymous 

[visualstudios]

15 hours ago, ericmberman said:

 

1. Abolish the response rate system — I don’t want to be a cog in a Fiverr-machine hellbent on communication optimization, yet Fiverr insists that I behave like a chat bot.
2. Take less off the top — 20% is too much.
3. Reduce the waiting period for payment — Forcing me to pay $40/month plus 1% of my earnings on top of the 20% Fiverr already takes just so I can get paid in a timely manner is cruel. 
4. Make deadlines time and day — Scheduling by day-units is impractical. 
5. Make deadlines optional — No-deadline contracts should be an option for buyers and sellers who are on the same page.
6. Require the requirements — The project should not begin until the seller approves the buyer’s requirements submission.
7. Seller-initiated cancellations should not affect visibility — Fiverr is not my employer; I should be able to cancel an order at my discretion without consequence.
8. Bring back Vacation Mode — I deserve a vacation.

 

1 - You don't need to be a cog to reply within 24 hours. You can reply anything, it takes 10 seconds - go into the conversation, say "I'll get back to you soon", done. This is not a big deal.

2- Agreed, should be on a sliding scale like other marketplaces. 20% on $5 is alright, on $5000 is way too much. Fiverr is spending the same on both, in effect high price sellers are subsidising low value sellers. This is unfair.

3 - Sure, there's no good reason for such long waiting periods.

4 - This makes no sense, worldwide market means different timezones. No way to make that work.

5 - There could be an option for open ended orders, yes. Better yet, options for hourly rates instead of fixed price projects.

6 - Agreed.

7 - Depends on the reason. You can't allow a seller to cancel for any reason, that's highly abusable. An order is a contract, buyers have deadlines, they need to know they can trust the system to deliver what they ordered. If anyone could cancel with no consequence, buyers would be way more hesitant to buy important things. That would be bad for the marketplace.

8 - You can take a vacation whenever you want, just stop accepting orders. Don't need a specific mode for that.

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by visualstudios

[donnovan86]

Just now, visualstudios said:

Agreed, should be on a sliding scale like other services. 20% on $5 is alright, on $5000 is way too much. Fiverr is spending the same on both, in effect high price sellers are subsidising meksells. This is unfair.

The only issue here is that it would be very unfair towards people that don't charge high prices. Having the same rate for everyone is fair. If someone earns $5000 a month via $10 orders, that's still $1000 they give to Fiverr. Why would a higher priced seller have a fee that's under 20%? That means the lower priced sellers would pay fees for the higher priced ones, basically. And that's unfair. 

Keeping the same 20% fee for everyone is the fair thing to do. Expensive sellers can easily ask for more money to cover fees, I saw a lot of people do this. Everyone has control over their prices. But punishing people that charge less to actually pay more fees than those charging more.... it's just wrong. That's how I feel, no matter how much you charge, you shouldn't be punished because you chose a certain pricepoint. 

[visualstudios]

17 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

The only issue here is that it would be very unfair towards people that don't charge high prices. Having the same rate for everyone is fair.

Disagree. High price people deserve to make more, because they are more high value. That's the point. It costs the same, for Fiverr, to get a client to spend $5 or $5000, in terms of server costs, order support, marketing, etc. Yet the one selling for $5000 is paying $1000 in Fiverr costs, and the $5 seller is paying $1. 1000 orders means more server costs, more customer support, more marketing, etc. Yet they pay the same as the guy who makes the same in 1 order, which means way less expenses for Fiverr.

Let's say both need to go to CS in 1 out of every 10 orders. Both make $5000 a month. The $5000 seller will occupy CS time once every 10 months. The $5 seller will occupy CS 100 times a month. CS costs money. The $5 seller is spending 1000 times more in server costs (chat, file transfers from clients, deliveries, etc.). Fiverr is making more money on the higher ticket sellers, assuming overall sales are the same, after you deduct their expenses with both.

Not to mention the number of issues is WAY higher on low ticket sellers than high ticket sellers. You should want to actively disincentivize low prices, as a platform. Hell, one of the metrics Fiverr always highlights on their quarterly reports is spend per buyer. Clearly they want that number to be as high as possible. Therefore, they'd rather have higher priced gigs than lower priced gigs. It's better for them. That should be rewarded.

There's a reason other services (upwo...) use a sliding scale commission. The more you make, the less % you pay.

Edited March 10, 2023 by visualstudios

[donnovan86]

30 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

High price people deserve to make more, because they are more high value

Value is highly subjective so I won't comment on that.

The thing is, this is not TopTal or a platform specialized solely on very expensive services. There are services for each budget, and fees shouldn't differ. There are server costs and so on, but at the same time the 20% they ask for covers all that marketing, support and server costs even for the cheapest gigs. Because let's face it, the more complex the order is, the more problems it can have. And that means more time spent by customer support, not to mention it takes more marketing money to acquire those high paying clients. I do agree there are many sellers without any orders that waste customer support's time.. but that's outside of our discussion here 😄

Plus, we also have to think about categories. Some projects like video ad creation and so on are very complex, and they take a huge amount of time, so they are more expensive obviously. Then again, a blog post you can't charge thousands for it, same with solving WordPress issues or anything like that. Having a fixed fee for everything is obviously the right way to go here, because you can't incline the balance one way or the other, it should all be fair and not extremely biased. I am sure Fiverr wants to increase fees, not lower them, no matter how much money you make here. 

There's already a discrepancy where if you order a $5 gig you have a payment fee that's half the order size, whereas this decreases exponentially the more you charge. Since we're talking about fairness 🙂 So clearly Fiverr encourages sellers to charge more, but as I said, the overall category will dictate prices and while some categories are very expensive, others have a much lower pricepoint due to the nature of the service. 

I checked what you said about the other platform, and the sliding scale comission is for return clients only. So you always pay the same fees, unless that person spends hundreds or thousands with you. But that's a specific use case and not the norm. Since it just pertains to return clients only. Even they don't charge people less based on a specific level. I would be fine if Fiverr starts adding lower fees if we have return clients, but that most likely won't happen for a long time, if at all. Who knows. 

Anyway I am not arguing here, I just think that having a fair, equal rate is the right thing to do here. Since this is an international platform, due to location and the nature of their service not everyone will have extremely high paying clients. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by donnovan86

[visualstudios]

8 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I checked what you said about the other platform, and the sliding scale comission is for return clients only. So you always pay the same fees, unless that person spends hundreds or thousands with you. But that's a specific use case and not the norm. Since it just pertains to return clients only.

It applies to value, doesn't have to be a returning client. If I charge $5000 for a first time client, I would automatically fall under the lower commission. Doesn't matter if it's a one time thing. What matters is the total order value. It is the norm for high ticket sales. That's the thing, all my clients spend many hundreds or thousands, even if it's one time only. So it is the norm, not a specific use case.

Edited March 10, 2023 by visualstudios

[donnovan86]

3 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

It applies to value, doesn't have to be a returning client

I would link but I think I would get flagged. It's just for return clients, and how much a client spends. 

What I was questioning above is that if a Pro seller makes $5000 and just has that one order during the month, and someone makes $5000 via many more orders, should the second person be punished just because they earned the same amount, but their niche doesn't offer the opportunity to charge $5000? Few to no writers can charge this much, then again they do a lot more volume work, whereas a programmar can charge this or way more for a very complex website. They spend the same amount of time, let's say a month for the sake of this conversation. So.. is this system mentioned above fair for the person that has more orders and earns the same? 

That's why I think maintaining the same fees is the normal thing to do. But we're just wasting time here, since Fiverr decides how they approach this and as far as we can see, there's no change in fees. We'll see. Of course everyone sees their best interests, however since platform has to cater to everyone's interests, I think they will keep this equal fee system for quite some time (it's been the same for more than a decade anyway). That doesn't mean it won't change, but since we are talking about a business, if anything they will go up, not down. Because the focus is on what buyers are spending here, and how much money the platform makes, since this is a for-profit company 🙂  

We'll see, I won't argue anymore about this because we are all biased with our own views, I get that. 

[visualstudios]

37 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

What I was questioning above is that if a Pro seller makes $5000 and just has that one order during the month, and someone makes $5000 via many more orders, should the second person be punished just because they earned the same amount, but their niche doesn't offer the opportunity to charge $5000?

It's a matter of framing. They wouldn't be "punished". They are paying 20% now, and would pay 20% then. They would lose nothing. That's not a punishment, that's staying as they are. The high ticket seller would be rewarded. It's different.

But again, I'd be ok with a sliding scale on monthly revenue as well, doesn't have to be per order.

Edited March 10, 2023 by visualstudios

[donnovan86]

5 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

But again, I'd be ok with a sliding scale on monthly revenue as well, doesn't have to be per order.

The chances of that happening are slim. Not 0, but rather low. We will see. Well, it is a punishment when you do the same amount of work (maybe more) and you pay more fees. Doesn't seem fair to me but in the end Fiverr chooses their system. So yeah, I won't comment anymore on this 🙂 since it's way outside of our control.

[emberman]

As long as we keep the conversation going I’m happy!

Just a reminder I was only referring to Fiverr Pro here. I think Pro sellers should get way, way, way more privileges then they do currently. I also think the Pro talent pool should be way more selective. These ideas go hand-in-hand. 

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, emberman said:

I think Pro sellers should get way, way, way more privileges then they do currently.

I mean, a Pro seller was selling their account on a platform at one point, so I agree with them being more selective. 

As for way way way more privileges.. you can have prices up to $20k, which regular sellers can't access. You have a dedicated success manager without having to pay $40 a month.. And apparently there's also better search exposure.. Now I am a bit jelly 🙂

Edited March 11, 2023 by donnovan86

[grayprogrammerz]

Some of points, I agree with, but reality is Fiverr is always right. lol

putting such speeches or strong debates doesn't worth

We have to go with (when working on fiverr), or choose other

But I can be 99.99% sure, they won't gonna change their business model

 

They been adding several features to website (mostly which can make them earn more, like promoted gigs, seller plus etc)

and I respect them (their platform = their rules = their wish)