Sellers, voice your opinion. This one is for you! Fiverr needs a Changed Mind button for Buyers

[hbconsultant]

Why there’s a mutual cancellation? Because will have one concentement between the seller and the buyer to cancel the transaction. So logically neither the seller nor the buyer should not be penalized for that.



If not, what is the logic of this “mutual cancellation” if not to clarify “the agreement of both?” !

[hotwebideas]

Reply to @hbconsultant: That is what we all wondering about. Mutual in the Fiverr world does not mean mutual.

[hotwebideas]

anarchofighter said: Buyer orders.

Buyer is experiencing buyers remorse.

Time passes, I complete order.

Buyer comes back and says, "I was logging in to press the "change my mind button" now what?"

 

Still have to cancel the order.

 

That is easy. Just have the seller press the "Start Order" button and once that happens, the buyer cannot cancel the order.

[anarchofighter]

I must not be doing a good job explaining.



Let me try this one more time.



Either A) These “fixes” are temporary ones. In which case the problem persists. or B) There “longer term” in which case that create new problems.



Takes HotWebs and Mark’s “Easy fixes” …just allow the button for 1 hour… or allow it until some other seller action.



Do anyone of us REALLY think that someone won’t still change their mind after 1 hour? Do any of us think some of us won’t DELIVER in less than 1 hour.

Do any of us think that if someone wants to cancel because s/he changed his/her mind after 1 hour that Customer Service will support us in NOT canceling the order and NOT letting that buyer leave feedback!?



Any temporary solution will just defer the problem and tend to make folks even MORE angry when “this fix” didn’t solve the problem either.



The other situation is one that I explained so poorly Mark thought I was confused.



Yes, I do understand some people are looking for some kind of “special” cancellation terms where it doesn’t count against sellers.



The problem with that is, as soon as there’s a way to cancel without consequence…

…it will become the NEW GOLD STANDARD for any cancellation.



Dialogue.



Buyer: This isn’t really what I’m looking for…can you do A, B and C.

Seller: I can do them all. A & B as a revision, but C is my $20 gig extra.

Buyer: I won’t pay that much for that.

Seller: Then would you prefer to cancel the order and part here as friends?

Buyer: I agree.

Seller: Look, if we do a mutual cancellation it will count against me, since you really changed your mind about buying the gig extra, would you mind doing a “changed you mind” cancel because that wont’ count against me.

Buyer: Sure, whatever you want, what do I care.



This is the problem. And it’s even worse potentially. Because maybe HotWebIdeas and Mark will be so thankful to have this new option they would NEVER break the spirit of it. So rather, they still get hurt while other less honest sellers game the system.

[anarchofighter]

One more comment. Creating an “Ordered by Mistake” process also gives buyers permission to claim that. To think that. To “fear” it’s some “problem with fiverr”.



I’m not sure we want to encourage anything like that. If the problem exists now, it will be trained in people in the future. It’s like giving people the language. See my previous comments about buyer’s remorse.

[mark74]

Well, so it seems that tips provided won’t solve the problem in the long period.

What I’d like to ask you @anarchofighter is if you think that cancellation problem exists or not; I don’t know, reading your posts I could think you don’t share our opinion about this problem. Naturally you have the right to think everything is ok and I respect your thoughts! More, your exceptions sounds reasonable to me, so maybe you’re right.

But I can feel, for my experience, that current system is completely in the hands of buyers and that’s not fair as is; so I feel the need to discuss about it and search for a solution! As you can see, I’m not just moaning, but trying to find and suggest a better way, that’s all! If my tips are not good and you feel current situation is not the best, try to help Fiverr team to find other ways to improve site experience!



Am I saying something silly?

[smokey1871]

I just had another cancellation hit against me. Fiverr cancelled an order because of somekind of issue with the buyers account which no longer exists. I find it unfair that I am the one that takes the hit for that.

[anarchofighter]

mark74 said: As you can see, I'm not just moaning, but trying to find and suggest a better way, that's all! If my tips are not good and you feel current situation is not the best, try to help Fiverr team to find other ways to improve site experience!

 

Am I saying something silly?

 

Absolutey Mark, you're a treasure. You are not silly. I apologize for any way in which I acted so cavalier as to seem to object to your efforts.

 

I also agree that right now the situation is 95% sided for the buyer. (The small bit that it's for we sellers is that if someone leaves negative feedback and we get them to accept a mutual cancellation the negative feedback is removed automatically!)

 

I'm on the fence on "is there a problem". Why am I on the fence? I'm not sure it matters if there IS a problem NOW because I can see how one more product teaching people how to use fiverr could create a HUGE problem of people ordering from 10 vendors the same gig and cancelling the ones they didn't like as much or weren't delivered by the time they found one they liked.

 

The cancellation policy ONLY hurts sellers. And that's a problem. However, having it "maybe" hurt sellers doesn't really HELP buyers. Because sellers then can leave negative feedback--which again only hurts the seller.

 

I think if there is a FIX at all to the cancellation problem it STARTS with pulling our "Cancellation Rates" off our publicly available information. Second, treat all cancellations the same way. Forced cancellations shouldn't impact RATING...just as mutual ones currently. (That way there's not a "better way to cancel") The only difference is a FORCED cancellation should leave feedback in place and a mutual one should delete it.

 

I stand by my other points, so I'm not sure all the problems of cancellations can be avoided.

 

 

[anarchofighter]

smokey1871 said: I find it unfair that I am the one that takes the hit for that.

 

You are not the only one.

 

First, the buyer is gone off the system.

Second, the buyer may have initiated a charge back so Fiverr wasn't paid either.

 

 

[mark74]

anarchofighter said: I apologize for any way in which I acted so cavalier as to seem to object to your efforts.

Don't worry, I'm not upset... I just like to support my ideas but I'm absolutely open to discussion 'cause I know that together we can find a better solution (maybe) :)

 

anarchofighter said: how to use fiverr could create a HUGE problem of people ordering from 10 vendors the same gig and cancelling the ones they didn't like as much or weren't delivered by the time they found one they liked

I've already had one while I was sleeping: one gig and two extras.. long story short: a cancellation has been added to my tally and the user is no longer active on site.

 

anarchofighter said: I think if there is a FIX at all to the cancellation problem it STARTS with pulling our "Cancellation Rates" off our publicly available information

Technically it's not available until you reach a limit percentage (20%?, I don't know the exact value) and it's shown red when you go over an important one (I think 50%); I know, it's a matter of just one day to destroy one seller reputation: some bot and proxy (and a few more) and you can be flood with orders and cancellations... :(

 

Cancellations can't be avoided, just like rude buyers trying to get your gig for free threatening with cancellations and bad feedback... but site is growing everyday and the situation can only become worse if thing won't change...

The policy you decide when you have 50000 users cannot be the same when your users become 50 millions! ;)

 

No other tips now, I don't have any I can call reasonable... but I promise I'm thinking about it...

[debbie_ph]

I have to say that this is very clever idea. Tip Button will be good also. I hope fiverr will consider this soon…

[anarchofighter]

What do you think about this Mark.



A new type of cancellation.

• Customer Service Canceled.
  
  
  
  With a CSC, you agree when you present the issue that it will either…
  
  
  
  A) Not count at all, or
  
  B) Will count as a Thumbs Down
  
  
  
  That way there will be no shenanigans to try to manipulate the situation.
  
  
  
  Further, if CS starts to have their day filled with valid cancellations, maybe then fiverr corporate will readdress the problem?
  
  
  

[i_am_best]

signed

[mark74]

Reply to @anarchofighter: that’s an idea, but I do have a couple of fears:

• Customer Support has not enough people to manage this and hire someone else just to address a problem they don't see is not reasonable in my opinion
  
• Fiverr should clearly publish the rules for which a cancellation will be discarded (not counted at all) and when it will result in a thumb down and every person in CS should keep them in mind; now, you well know, the same problem is addressed in different ways depending on the person answering you; more, several Fiverr apllied rules are not written nor described anywhere: they're just applied in the fog..
  
• This way, buyers still have 90% of the power; they will always agree for such kind of cancellation: if seller wins they get their money back and nothing happened, while if seller lose he has a really bad (for business) thumb down; so, nothing will change for buyers and this will become the new standard cancellation
  

In my opinion, we should find a way to compensate buyer clearly making an error but punish the one who is trying to abuse system or seller.
What I think is that there could be reasons for which buyer should't be refunded:

• Ordered something that seller description clearly states the seller can't do
  
• Ordered the same gig to multiple buyers to accept only the fastest delivery
  
• Ordered something that violates Fiverr rules or some country law (the last could be difficult to apply, but let's think about it)
  

In all of these cases, cancellation should'n count at all.

Now, the most difficult part: what about "wrongly placed orders"?

• Well, if a buyer just order one gig (or more than one at once) cancellation can be granted, funds returned to him and cancellation won't count for seller; but buyer should receive a warning: you can do it once, twice... but at the third time your funds won't be returned but leaved to seller!
  
• If the buyer orders instead one gig AND some extra, then order (IMHO) couldn't be wrongly placed: too many action has been taken from buyer to make me believe it was a mistake, sorry...
  
• if buyer place an order, provide instructions (when requested) and later asks to cancel (yes, it happened this too), cancellation will be granted but not counted for seller (who probably worked on the order so must be payed) and money not refunded
  

Logic behind is: if you buy biscuits and, when at home, you see that already had tons, you cannot bring them back and have your money... it was your fault and you must face it, stop. It's a basic law, everywhere on earth I think...

In the end I think that some basic and clear and written rule could help CS managing 90% of cancellation request and address the ones trying to abuse sellers or force the system (for several reasons). There's not a way to solve all the problems, but when you manage the most of them, the others can be managed from support team just like they're doing now.

A long post, written down following my stream of thoughts... so sorry if I missed something :)
What do you think about this?

[anarchofighter]

I agree with your concerns about CS. I was seeing that as a way to pressure a systematic change.



The more I read about this issue, the more it strikes me as unsolvable.

[mark74]

Well, this new feature just introduced doesn’t help I think…

[zzeuzz]

Will helpful… 🙂

[anarchofighter]

Mark, I completely agree. Having the Multiple Stars is a step in the WRONG direction.



I personally hate star systems because I don’t know what 3 stars means. Is that “average” meaning good enough?



Further, all these systems suffer from the problem of making more noise in the system and asking buyer to work harder to give feedback. It will be the curmudgeons who will be the most happy to leave detailed and starless feedback.



Maybe if the gig started with 5 stars set? But again, I don’t want to polish a turd. This is the WRONG direction for fiverr.

[mark74]

Just remember what happens on Amazon: I saw many times buyers rating 3/5 stars and write perfect or exactly as described or love it! The main difference is that here buyer can just choose stars without commenting them!

And considering that every person is different, the same service can be rated differently from different buyers… so, what’s the real purpose of this new feature?

Why it was not announced on forum? Did I miss it?

[mania]

Hello Bruce,



I completely agree with you.



Seller should be judged on their performance only.



Cancellation shouldn’t affect their rating.



Alan

[sincro7]

I would say that the only way to avoid so many cancellations, is not letting the buyer download the work already done by the seller, suggest Fiverr to get an on line visor so buyers can view the work they ordered, but are not able to download until he is sure he´s made up his or her mind and is ready to pay for it. It will be a risk the seller will have to take for doing a job that won´t be bought, but that´s part of life, there´s always a risk. Maintaining a good quality of work will help the seller on this.

[anarchofighter]

Sincro7, obviously that only works for a very limited type of gig delivery (ie. design work)



and @mania …I disagree. Excessive cancellations needs to be another way that sellers who are working the system can be exposed. It’s funny, there’s a thread where a troll is going on about how you cannot trust the ratings on Fiverr because sellers can CANCEL LOL to avoid a thumbs down.



Delivering a gig that people don’t want is part of your performance, is it not?

[mark74]

Reply to @sincro7: I’m a app developer here: how do you think my customers can run them without downloading them? @anarchofighter is right: only a limited type of gigs can be previewed and, anyway, this won’t solve the problem: preview can seem wonderful, while final delivery (the one a buyer needs) can show details and problems that preview didn’t… and in this case buyer has the right to refuse it asking for modifications or definitely rejecting it!

[akrause2112]

Reply to @voiceoverwork: Agreed. But I wouldn’t want someone “changing their mind” if I have already begun working on the project, which I often do right away. I fully support the “refuse order”, but the mind-changing would need to be highly controlled.

[cfcdistribution]

I think it’s a good idea