How Should I Handle This Situation?

[blackistudios]

Hello all. I'm new to Fiverr (upstart comics/ videogame company) and so far my experience has been 50/50. I've had my logo based off my idea designed here as well as artwork for a project and that experience has been GREAT! I've also had audio engineering (not) done as the seller kept sending me barely edited audio versions just to meet the deadline and I had unlimited revisions so he was stretching out the process until he could actually free up time to do it properly (in my opinion) so I cancelled the order (which was completed in house). Now I have a seller that I want to do animation for a comic project, his work is fantastic and he offered to do a preview but the guy also keeps requesting for me to send him more of the artwork and voice overs. It's been 2 weeks and I have asked to see the preview (due to him having my psd file) and have been very lenient due to him offering to do preview to see if I like his services however I have not sent any more work to him and he has not replied in over a week. I don't want to say his name but I have screenshots of our communication and have stated if I do not hear a reply I would report him or post on here about him as now I'm not sure I can trust this person who already had my work... How should I proceed? I'm new and don't want the above experiences to deter me from using Fiverr because I have enjoyed it this far. Thx

[smashradio]

16 minutes ago, blackistudios said:

Now I have a seller that I want to do animation for a comic project, his work is fantastic and he offered to do a preview but the guy also keeps requesting for me to send him more of the artwork and voice overs. It's been 2 weeks and I have asked to see the preview (due to him having my psd file) and have been very lenient due to him offering to do preview to see if I like his services however I have not sent any more work to him and he has not replied in over a week. I don't want to say his name but I have screenshots of our communication and have stated if I do not hear a reply I would report him or post on here about him as now I'm not sure I can trust this person who already had my work... How should I proceed? I'm new and don't want the above experiences to deter me from using Fiverr because I have enjoyed it this far. Thx

Am I right in assuming that you wanted to buy his services, then he promised to deliver a preview before you bought it? Why would you do that, instead of just asking for the order? Sellers do this because they want to avoid a negative review. 

If you guys don't have an active order, there's nothing you can do about it. You shouldn't ask sellers to work without an order in the first place, and he has no obligation to provide you with any service unless you pay him. 

I would simply explain to the seller that you're no longer interested in working with them, since they stopped responding. 

Then I would find another seller and use Fiverr the way it's meant to be used: you pay for the service, the buyer renders said service, you receive it and then you ask for revisions if needed. As long as the seller has an active order with you, they are obligated to work for you. If they don't, you have no protection, and they have no real consequenses for not doing anything. 

I hope this helps! 🙂 

Edited August 2, 2022 by smashradio

[uk1000]

1 hour ago, smashradio said:

If you guys don't have an active order, there's nothing you can do about it

Though it's unprofessional of the seller to have offered to create a preview, received the potential buyer's .psd to help create the preview with but later stop responding and not give a preview. If they offered a preview they should really give a preview. Though it may be that the seller offered the preview assuming they'd get enough of the artwork to create enough of a preview with (and the audio maybe), and maybe they don't think what they received is enough to easily create enough of the preview (maybe without creating similar art themselves but where buyer would give the art needed if there was an order).

Though he hasn't broken any part of the TOS I think, but he should have communicated better (eg. if he couldn't create the preview easily with what he had) or created the preview if he offered it really.

Edited August 2, 2022 by uk1000

[moikchap]

The described behaviour is decently common among the artists I've contacted. I wanna say maybe 1 in 6 do this to varying degrees?
I haven't had anyone want to "finish" a work before I placed the order though. Most give previews until I have no changes to request, and then ask that I place the order.
If you're worried about what's being done on the seller's end, maybe ask to see how the work is going "in case there is already something needing revision". After all, they "wouldn't want to need to revise a long animation". They should be checking in early and often to "minimize the impact of change requests". If they have nothing to show, stop investing your time in the guy and invest it in another "talent search". There's a lot of reasons where a previously viable seller may become non-viable, so it's a good practice to acclimate to pivoting to new sellers. Make tasks smaller and more portable so if a seller fails the task can be shifted quickly and easily. I'm finding it's moderately necessary to churn through sellers, but I'm finding it decently rewarding with "diamond in the rough" sellers turning up fairly often.

 

[blackistudios]

Hey thx for the feedback guys I appreciate it! No there is no order form, I contacted him and explained what I was looking for to make sure he was able to do a motion comic animation (as his profile states to ask before placing an order). He then asked me to send the file (psd) and VO so I sent script of the particular page to be animated. He offered to do a preview to make sure it was what I was looking for and also asked me to send other files for other pages to be worked on (which he doesn't need for the preview). He has the psd and script for that scene so no nothing is official but I wouldn't have sent the psd etc had I known he wouldn't do it. I have screenshots of the entire conversation. My concern is that he actually has the artwork and I trusted him. And yes I would absolutely hire him for the task. 

[smashradio]

14 hours ago, moikchap said:

Most give previews until I have no changes to request, and then ask that I place the order.

Isn't that, in fact, finishing the work before they get an order? Once they are done, they want to place the order, because if you place the order before that, they risk getting a negative review if you're not happy with them. This is called review sanitizing. These sellers are so unsure of themself and/or so afraid of negative feedback, that they try to circumvent how Fiverr works in order to avoid the risk. 

It's also totally unprofessional and no true artist/business person will work this way. 

 

 

[moikchap]

2 hours ago, smashradio said:

Isn't that, in fact, finishing the work before they get an order?

Yes and no. One could argue it's part of the communication process to get the order details right.

To clarify the "until I have no changes to request"; they aren't working the piece to completion prior to the order. Say I'm ordering a picture of a forest. The seller will give me a sketch of the perspective and tree density/positions with one tree in final detail. Maybe they went with bright green leaves when I asked for autumn. I'll give them another reference image, they'll change the colours. I'll say that looks right I have nothing else to change, and then they ask me to place the order, and after the order they'll do the rest of the trees, grass, sky, birds, etc. Only about 20% of the work would be done before the order, and all the work to that point has the goal of getting agreement on the spec.

I figured this is why sellers were so adamant* about being contacted before placing an order; to know if they could reasonably meet the buyer's needs before the order starts. A number of the sellers who've set their arrangements this way are level twos.

* There's a handful who have gotten mad at me for ordering before they did the preliminary sketch, even though they agreed to do the work when I contacted them before placing an order. As "unprofessional" as it may be, and as much as "no true business" would do it; it seems to be the way fiverr sellers in general operate at the lower price range. n=100

[smashradio]

1 hour ago, moikchap said:

Yes and no. One could argue it's part of the communication process to get the order details right.

Performing work before you have a contract in place is "communication"? Communication is "Hey, can you do XYZ?" - "Yes" - "Great. Can you do it today?" - "Yes". It is not sitting down to create free samples or finish the work before you have a contract (order) in place. 

1 hour ago, moikchap said:

they aren't working the piece to completion prior to the order. Say I'm ordering a picture of a forest. The seller will give me a sketch of the perspective and tree density/positions with one tree in final detail.

So the seller has in fact worked for you, for free, and you have no obligation to compensate them for their time. Likewise, they have no obligation to follow up with the work. This just seems fishy to me. Pure review sanitizing. 

1 hour ago, moikchap said:

Maybe they went with bright green leaves when I asked for autumn. I'll give them another reference image, they'll change the colours. I'll say that looks right I have nothing else to change, and then they ask me to....

This is what the revision button is there for. 

1 hour ago, moikchap said:

There's a handful who have gotten mad at me for ordering before they did the preliminary sketch, even though they agreed to do the work when I contacted them before placing an order. As "unprofessional" as it may be, and as much as "no true business" would do it; it seems to be the way fiverr sellers in general operate at the lower price range. n=100

What they are doing is basically review sanitizing to give off a false impression of their skills. How can you, based on the reviews, know how many buyers left them dissatisfied to begin with? You can't, because those buyers had no way of reviewing the work. If the seller thinks something is challenging or they don't want to complete the work they have been hired to do, they can simply block the buyer and get away with it, no matter what the "deal" was. That's exactly why there is an order system in place. 

[blackistudios]

For myself the preview was seeing if the seller could add an overlay effect of real rain (for example) in the background of a motion comic. He was trying to understand what I was requesting but he seemed to comprehend what was being asked. So the preview was offered, I just wanted to see if he could pull it off regardless of the comic animation was shoddy or not as that can be adjusted. I just wanted to see the vision be a somewhat reality then proceed with an order. Again this is new for myself as most work is done in person however the world is shifting to remote work so I am shifting along with it when needed.