kosmtheandric

I was getting around a new draft of artists and what I used to do is set out a request and had many, many, many people signing up. While it costs a lot of time to sift through, almost all artists that I still work with to this day I've found through this system. However, it seems to have gone away since I didn't need to use it for some time now. I wanted to find new people to work with so I tried making a request that has now become a brief. I seem to have less amount of possible pictures/references/examples that I can attach than I used but that should not be too bad. However I sent it, and poof it's gone into the aether, no idea who is seeing it, how many, or how often someone sees it. It is now just a waiting game in which I have virtually no control over who is able to reply or see it. Now comes to the ruder part I suppose I used to asses the artist previously through a one-sided system they essentially apply I visit their gig or page and either delete their response clean up the list then finally end up with 3-8 people and go from there now. Again not to be rude but many artists I have no interest in artwise, style-wise, or capability-wise. Now I get strangers that are flooding my inbox with all kinds of well not useful messages or offers. I asked for an illustration yet a logo design artist is responding to my brief, why? why is this a thing? Also, I have no idea how many people are viewing the brief, if I can cancel it or how long it lasts or any other valuable metric from a business or simple use standard this is either atrocious or should be made way clearer to find if there is even such a page or general overview. I may be missing something here but this system as far as it is seems very amateurish. The niceness was I could send a ping that I can myself choose to look into when I had the time to acquire overtime possible artists instead of people clambering the inbox that take up time and who are most often pardon my rudeness useless to my brief. Especially with art since it is so personal to what the buyer would like to see (ergo me). This is not a bring the old system back question but more an overall one, how can I even see if the brief is doing its potential work? and how do buyers work now a days.

Why is this a thing? now I have marked (highlighted) conversation spot with an artist I'm not interested in, with art that has nothing to do with what I need or want (nor has the required skillset). Can't even delete or hide it. While I understand that sellers want the ability to "promote", I generally find myself having to find the people I need for whatever job much better. Without Fiverr sending out another Fiverr Ping that I technically didn't even ask for and don't need either. I find this annoying, intrusive and most importantly unnecessary and time wasting as there are many areas of the main page/browsing that can handle ads, recommodations and promotions, but not the area where I do "business" or keep in touch with the artists. Is there a way to block or deny such messages?

Sorry for the long wait forgot I had posted a question here. Duality is a beautiful thing when we often describe evil things we always grasp for the thing easiest to comprehend or identify with. Traditionally the 7 sins are very easy for this, foundational wrongdoing or vices. I like to turn stuff on a dime and switch them up and make the good bad instead. Too much love turns sour overprotectiveness turns children into sniveling useless beings unable to take care of themselves. Munch hausen by proxy for instance is a mental issue that parents make their own children sick in order to garner sympathy or attention. These are all very interesting things to play with. Too much happiness turns to euphoria an inability to see danger or the truth of things, or better be happy OR ELSE!! Love makes blind or rise tinted glasses we see the ideal partner instead they act as a demon in disguise with actions or words. Empathy can cripple a person to its fundamentals unable to do or help just witness and relive or live through their pain. As you notice you can bend things almost in any which way you really want to but these concepts became increasingly harder to manage and depict. This should help you though in writing a story in your artwork. Wrath is easy (it is someone or something very pissed off or angry murdering someone) the other options above are very much more subtle or harder to depict.

I seem to perhaps misunderstanding something but your asking for a connection to your two examples? As in tie them into an overarching world? Also is this a personal project or something your doing for someone else as in someone is paying you for this?

@ozan_erdiThe only thing I can say is that you seem to have a great grasp on how to handle these situations. Though handling a client or buyer is just as much a skill as the art you produce. Albeit it a very shitty skill to train or have to use but a necessary one. I can't defend unreasonable people like you describe but I did have circumstances that even though I provided let's say 8 references for ``cthulian style monsters' ' hammering out a clear idea to an artist can be very difficult. I always approach things from "normal" and yes it sounds the same like well using "common sense" and you'll notice after dealing with 10 people common sense and normal is vastly different for everyone. You can only use yourself as a baseline ergo your own vision, rules and practices as a basis and go from there. While I understand the above sentiment, at the end of the day it is your communication to figure out the buyer's motivation, intent and scope of work. Going from "there might be more work '' to some of you that immediately raises hairs, suspicion or anger is a problem of previous failings or really unfair harsh lessons learned most likely the hard or unfair way. Not saying that is good but well unfortunately it's the reality and immediately going to a certain place in regards to a certain word, utterance or sentence is not professional in my opinion. Because at the end of the day I and many other buyers cannot help it if you've been wronged before and to be piled up automatically into the same category of possible bad actors is a failure on your own part not ours who might actually have good intentions. Though I can understand the frustration of many bad interactions with numerous people, never let it poison the well or your perception of those you might meet. Thanks for sharing your opinion and difficulties and hardships though.

@melanielmYes and no, like all things there are 2 sides to a story. For instance any poster here can be a well let's call them an "unpleasant individual" with bad communication skills, poor language, arrogant, entitled. It's easy to say my art is excellent and you just don't get my style. Which to some degree is correct but bad anatomy fundamentals stays bad anatomy fundamentals regardless of style. While I do not want to make this personal by any means there is always one side of the story you can see especially if these are 1 liner ish/ off hand comments. So it's very easy to "complain" about why do buyers entice artists with promises of more work or don't follow up. Well since the aforementioned reasons I explained. But it could just as well be that the seller was unpleasant and then blames the buyer for these types of issues, aka the other side of the coin/story. While your definition/explanation I would agree with this is however not how the title of the post is laid out. As the title would be more in the line of "If you do this first order cheap or half price, more orders will follow" that would be an accurate sentence that would reflect your definition instead or the assumption you took from the title (perhaps cause this has happened to you multiple time this is how you read it). However the title we have is "if this works out well, I'll order more from you in the future" speaks nothing of less pay only that more orders will follow if the order works out well. Which is for someone who exists outside of this seller ecosystem (me, and these common or uncommon things are outside of my experience) reads this as "yeah duh, if the first order doesn't go well then why in the hell would I order more?". If I read it through your lens I would absolutely agree with you that it is an annoying practice for people to offer work at reduced rate with the insinuated promise of more in the future only for the truth to be there is no future and they simply want 1 singular piece cheap. Though I cannot read intent without proper word use hence my too long post adding some nuance xD.

@moikchap The book is an oversized hobby project that may or may not see the light of day. I've certainly learned that when you do, world building, races, classes, monsters, quests, map design etc all by yourself its a time consuming process to say the least. In regards to where I will try to publish a kickstarter when its ready, doesn't have to be succesful just get it out and see what happens. Followed by release on DriveThruRPG, DM's Guild is terrible system of release as it means you auto forfeit all your rights to D&D without possibility of royalty creditation or anything. They can simply joink your idea or bits of it publish it and call it theirs and they would be well in their rights to do so. The idea that someone posts there is ridiclious from a law and rights standpoint. That's not to say if your encredibly succesfull and have a great couple of books you'll be making enough money I suppose to not let that be a detriment. Though I would never surrunder my ideas so easily for only an accesible storefront. In regards to other vibes the way how I am reading this, is that from some posters there is a extermly dismissive and or negative mindset to potential clients. Now written words can be hard to decipher in regards to intent and meaning but you cannot argue with someone who writes the following That they are so burned by the Fiverr or the industry that if this is the initial response well, that's a bad negative mindset, starting point and a few other issues that someone might wish to address first instead of projecting it to the buyer by mere assumption when they say "hey if everything goes well there is a possibility for more orders''. I just wanted to give my two cents before this post turned into a circle jerk of "Yeah I agree sellers are bad and call it a day". My experience is if your mindset or starting point is lacking you receive what you attract most of the time. If you have no spine to tell someone who tries to pressure, negotiate you into lower your price that's a problem with you, not the one trying to do so. Again it's rude and mean but at the end of the day if someone is using their money trying to hire someone you decide what your own time is worth. If you do the work for less money for any reason you have no rights to cry about it, beyond looking in the mirror for the problem. Yes I know how harsh and mean that sounds, but I am afraid that's unfortunately how most people are and act. In regard to expensive sellers are the best sellers no, I have to agree with you, my best artists are relatively the cheapest. So it's true that expensive does not equal faster, better, or a more pleasant experience. I rather use google translate to get a great artist who struggles with language and attaining gig's to give a decent shot then the one who has 14 orders pending and attempts to cram me in there somewhere cause money and the artpiece gets half the attention. While quality is always a thing if an good artist get's me 90% of my idea there I am good if person that does 100% costs double or triple I am good with the 90% person. At some point quality and expenditure do need to make sense.

I am only a buyer on Fiverr and perhaps I can give a different perspective on this. Since otherwise this post will become just a circle jerk of agreement it seems and less of insightful reflection upon oneself. First off, what I notice is a deep seeded (might be reading this too harshly or deeply) hatred or disrespect almost for your potential buyers or clients. When you have people speaking about buyers being kings and you artists or whatever you provide as dogs. Well then that is already clouding your perception or at least giving you (me) in insight as to how you perceive those around you but also yourself and your willingness to put up with bad behavior. Let alone the audacity after you the seller delivered work for them the buyer not following up or through on the option or perhaps even promise to buy more (bit hyperbolic but you should catch my drift). This sounds to me as incredibly privileged and removing oneself from the equation simply blaming it on the buyer. 1. No money: Something went wrong, dog sick, car broke down, a million other reasons a buyer cannot follow up on an initial promise. Dealing with this is not fun and most often will lead to ghosting as it's not fun to deal with. Bad behavior yes but reality nonetheless. 2. Honesty: Sometimes (my own experience) I get delivered artwork that is like 80% there but I can see that this is the max the artist can do or provide, there is little use to squeeze them until they either quit or I ask unrealistic things from them. Going through multiple revisions is tedious (language issues) and often time consuming. What I tend to do is simply thank the artist, give a 5 star review and move on. No hassle no fuss, I have to say I never had an artist themselves come up to me and say "oh btw when can I start the next work" so often they may themselves feel like they have failed. No one (normal or reasonable) likes leaving a bad review intentionally without it being able to work out behind the scenes through mutual cancellation or paying and taking the loss. I am in agreement though that bad actors can really put sellers through the ringer on Fiverr if they so desire or wish. That's I suppose the downside of sites like these. As from a business standpoint Fiverr will side with the buyer 95% of the time same with Ebay will also side as otherwise no one would be selling anything as there are too many possible bad actors on each side. You can only hope the good guys rise above the shitty ones. 3. Skill level: Overestimating the amount of children's book artists who have replied to my requests saying yes I can do your creative semi realistic non anime character in a painterly style without issue, is an issue of itself. Look, everyone starts somewhere and that is awesome and good. However I have to say setting yourself up for failure and a bad experience is another one all together. 4. Fraud: The amount of stolen artwork that people use to promote their gigs is insane. I am more than adept at reverse image search at this point to verify if the proposed artwork is theirs, no other account such as behance, insta or other to verify overall portfolio of artwork is also a dead give away. It is imo a huge problem and drowns out so many good actors I rather not contemplate it. 5. False advertisement or reverse shenanigans: Portofolio is verifiable and looks great, correct anatomy, coloring etc etc. When you hire them and get your delivery you receive 50% of the quality from the portfolio "yeah but if you want portfolio quality work the price suddenly is X amount". (sometimes double or triple) Which is fine but also sets up the wrong expectations towards buyers. Again while we may say "yeah but I don't do that '' I can say yes this happens more than you think. My project is a RPG sourcebook that I am working on and for it I work with creature blocks. These blocks consist of a particular group of creatures, let's say devils for instance, these blocks are 4-8 orders ranging from minion to mini-boss or boss. I like therefore to have consistency throughout this artwork, ergo the same artist that works on that particular block as otherwise you may end up with vastly different styles. I will always mention there might be more orders coming if the first one goes well for a couple of reasons. 1. Availability: I will run into issues if 2 orders in an artist have not enough time or issues. Hence I need to wait egregiously long or might even have to scrap those expenditures as the artist themselves vanish or can't continue with the work. 2. Motivation: I would assume you'd want to be selling here, a buyer willing or optioning (emphasizes on the optioning) for more possible orders should signal to a person to put their best leg forward. While many will say "yeah but I am always doing that". I will respond simply with this "no, sorry I am a human being, I know myself well enough and others through life experiences and though I and my fellow humans try their best sometimes it doesn't work, pan out, or any viable excuse you can place here works" adding stakes is nothing wrong with accept when the aforementioned reason is raised to cheapskate for lesser payout. That's bad practice on the buyer's end and should not be accepted by the seller. 3. Trials: When I am not sure of an artist I will often trial them they can choose a creature block to work on and they get reimbursed fully for it. Often the work is good but far from what they either promote or use on their profile. There is so so so much on fiverr in the sense of stolen artwork or simply personal portfolio work being used as an example only for it to be then way less quality. What I most often will do is take the "loss" a.k.a pay and move on unless I feel like I am being cheated with the quality the profile or gig advertises against what I am receiving. Cause I don't like leaving low reviews on people that tried but either failed, couldn't live up to my expectations or regarded their skill level extremely higher than realistically possible. I suggest making a request to place some decent artwork and you'll see what offers come flooding in saying they can do X, Y or Z and when I watch their portfolios I wonder to myself "there is no way in hell this is going to work out ever". So yeah sorry for my wall of text that I don't think many will read. There is a lot of stuff that has to be taken into account on the buyer's end as well. Similar but different frustrations go each way in so these are my couple of cents coming from some who have 132 successful orders and 10 cancellations, many of which I never returned to as I, A. Did not want to hurt their feelings B. Tried their very best but were not good enough for the final product C. Did not work out for other reasons. So yeah we are all human, most often insecure and fallible