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donnovan86

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Everything posted by donnovan86

  1. Similarly to Fiverr's legal side I assume. I am sure Fiverr doesn't want any kind of major liability. Yep. Everyone needs to have an expert look into their own stuff. It was nice chatting with you 🙂 Going offline.
  2. I can imagine. That's why I've been working with an expert since day 1, I heard various horror stories. I know these tax laws are convoluted and hard to tackle. So I 100% agree with you with the tax things you said. I just wanted to let you know that this entire conversation started from sellers with 0 sales asking for compensation from Fiverr because they were not getting orders due to the new level system. That's why I was telling here they are not hired by Fiverr. That was all. Creating an account on a platform doesn't immediately mean they hired you and you receive benefits and compensation 🙂 Hopefully other people see our conversation and they are encouraged to talk with a tax expert, so they get their stuff in order.
  3. Well it's not about local taxes and laws. So you agree people with 0 sales on Fiverr should be compensated because they just created an account? Because that's where it all started, some sellers with 0 sales were asking for compensation because they are working FOR Fiverr. Which obviously is not the case. Sure, there are legal requirements and implications based on the country. But Fiverr didn't hire those sellers and they are asking for money as compensation... that's very funny to me.
  4. Still, Fiverr didn't hire you. You are not employed by Fiverr. You are just an independent contractor, and that doesn't change, regardless of where you live. The only people employed by Fiverr are those they hired, like customer support professionals, their dev team, their success managers, etc. We are just contractors using their platform. So they don't pay/handle our taxes, we don't get any benefits a hired person would normally get. I doubt any country can force this onto Fiverr, because that's the nature of the platform. It's just like Uber or Bolt, or any other similar apps/services. You're not working for those platforms, they are not seen as your employer. In fact, you can drive for both or even more than 2 apps at once. Same with freelancing. These apps allow you to make money, but you are liable for any taxes. I agree with you, everyone should talk with an accountant/expert. However, it all started with the assumption that people think they are hired by Fiverr and should receive compensation because they are not getting any orders. So yeah, while there will always be certain local laws that differ, what remains the same is that Fiverr is a platform where you sell services, not your employer if you are a freelancer. I find that funny, because some sellers here expected compensation for being on the platform with 0 sales. But everyone should go to a local accountant to get things sorted and avoid any gray areas, as you said, if you are making money on the platform. Because every country has its own, convoluted way of dealing with freelancers.
  5. I can only assume you had a great private review that boosted your stats.
  6. Clearly a sign that things are being changed in the background. I didn't have any SS change, however for one of my gigs the client satisfaction went from negative impact to severe negative impact. And that gig had 2 orders the past 6 months. Last one was reviewed before the new level system and success score. So I have no idea what brought that change :))
  7. I think it mostly has to do with the way some people tried to manipulate the system. They were canceling orders instead of getting a bad review - that's why the reviews for canceled orders were implemented. They were only curating 5 star reviews, making their service seem perfect, when it's not - a new review and leveling system to try and lower scores. So yeah, a lot of these changes were made because, whether we like it or not, tons of sellers try to curate their reviews, they even manipulate buyers to leave a 5 star review if they want to ever see they work, etc. A lot of buyers complained on the forum. So I see why they made these changes. The problem is that with this new level system, we don't even know what affects the success score, aside from what we see publicly. In the case of @marinanp86, it might be due to random reviews left privately. It certainly was the case for me last year around this time and it took me multiple months to recover. Even if I had only 5 star reviews exclusively, I was barely getting any messages or orders from new people, and my success manager said that my buyer satisfaction rate (now this success score) is low. So yeah, there are a lot of hidden metrics that Fiverr doesn't share with us, which is why the success score feels random. Because from our perspective, the public stuff seems perfect, yet you don't know if a person randomly rated you poorly in the private feedback form.
  8. Exactly. I've been here for 10 years and never felt like an employee. Nor are they offering any employment benefits nor do they handle taxes. It's just a place where you earn money, at your convenience. These platforms thrive because there are always people willing to offer services on them, and if you leave, 10 more will come and replace you. True but you're not employed by them. You just have to follow the terms of service, that's all. And you agree to those when you sign up for an account. An employer will force you to achieve a certain target every month, that's not the case if you sell on your own. You can sell as much or as little as you want, no one is forcing you, the only thing you have to focus on is following the platform's rules. They also have certain metrics they track, every platform that allows you to sell on it will always track metrics, simply for ranking purposes. Because there are lots of sellers, so they want to rank you. Even if they might not hide you from results, you will receive a bad review from the dented package receiver and that will impact you in one way. Unfortunately there's no employment relationship with Fiverr. There's no contract, nothing. You are just an independent person selling on their platform. It's not in their interest to have a contract with you or anything that forces them to a certain agreement. The way they operate now is great for them because they can have thousands of sellers, those can leave or continue working, and the platform doesn't have any liability. Adding any type of agreement or contracts will just make things more difficult for them. Unless there are certain rules like the DAC-7 report where they are forced to share your income with the tax authorities, Fiverr is not forced to do anything. I think they are comfortable in this position and having any type of contract would just add extra requirements on their side. Which let's face it, who wants any more liability than they already deal with :))
  9. The main problem here are the hidden metrics. Those private reviews can easily be random, people don't even know they are rating you as a seller, the questions make it seem you are rating your experience with the platform. That's why I think many of us have bad private reviews without even knowing what caused them in the first place. But it is what it is, at this point I am just tired on worrying about every metric under the sun. Clearly we are at a point where diversifying our income is extremely important, because you can't rely on a single platform anymore. And that's the truth.
  10. Yeah. And that's the extent of it. They don't force you to work certain hours, they don't force you to take hundreds of jobs, etc. You can easily place a limit to orders in queue, you also have request to order. You can work as little or as much as you want. It's just a platform where you can sell stuff. You can't tell me that people selling on eBay or Etsy are hired by them 🙂 yes, the platform has some obligations like managing money and stuff but that's about it. You agree to their terms when you create an account, you can easily just choose to buy and ignore any selling. Or you sell within their rules. You can also be independent by working alone, in your pajamas, paying your taxes and just doing freelance work on platforms like Fiverr, Uwork, Toptal or whatever. That makes you independent as a freelancer. Not having an office or agency. But to each his own. I don't feel any employment, pressure to work a certain schedule or anything like that when I am on Fiverr or other freelancing sites. I always try to set the deadlines I want, and I've been doing that for over 10 years. That's why I am confused as to why some freelancers here see Fiverr as their employer. There was one person that was saying on the forum :)) Fiverr should pay them unemployment benefits because they have no orders and Fiverr should guarantee orders for them. Which is obviously not the case, anyone can easily create an account, say they are hired by Fiverr and wait for employment benefits. And they will be waiting, because they are independent contractors, they aren't hired by Fiverr directly, people hire them through Fiverr. So yeah, Fiverr is a facilitator. They will never take any responsibility like a company who hires you. Because you come here OFFERING your services, you're not hired by them to do specific work. I can easily change all my gigs, shift to graphic design instead of writing and Fiverr won't do anything. Do that at a place where you are hired to be a writer or programmer. Nah, today I want to stop being a programmer, I will start being a designer instead. They fire you on the spot 🙂 Anyway, I don't mind what others think, I respect that. But clearly Fiverr is a platform, everyone should treat it as such. It's not your employer. You are just an independent contractor offering services on Fiverr/Uwork or whatever platform.
  11. Go to customer support, we can't help as we are only sellers. So the thing is, maybe this amount is the largest one you withdrew, and that ended up triggering something in Fiverr's system. Go to customer support, they should let you know what happened.
  12. You choose to work on Fiverr. They are not your employer. That's all. Of course if you use the platform, that comes with certain rules. But you didn't sign a contract. You can easily cancel the orders if you don't want to and stop using the platform. When you're hired, you don't have that luxury. You have a contract, usually on a predetermined timeline. You are. Because unlike being hired, as a freelancer you choose when, where and how much you work. When you're hired, that's not the same. You are forced to go to work at X in the morning and then go home at Y in the afternoon. We are talking about Fiverr specifically. Fiverr didn't hire you, instead you just work on a platform. The wise thing is to have multiple sources of income. Each person knows their own financial situation, but these days just relying only on Fiverr is not exactly a good idea, if you want consistent income. Because the changes they made can lead to inconsistency very fast. Yeah, I'll stop wasting time explaining. Employment means you are "being paid to work for a company or organization". Fiverr doesn't pay you, buyers do. Fiverr is just the middleman and they take a cut of your earnings, they give you a platform to sell your services. They aren't your employer. Sure, you agree to certain rules while on the platform, but there's no type of employment here. Feel free to think it is, but legally, there's no employment. I've never been tied to any platform as a freelancer. You can easily stop using any platform and there's no employment contract or anything like that tying you to anything. You want to achieve succes on Fiverr and only work here? Great, that doesn't mean you are being paid by them. Buyers pay for your services and Fiverr is a platform that offers some benefits like escrow services, sometimes they might cover you if a person tries to scam you. But hey, you can promote your own services online, use an online escrow service and not deal with Fiverr. Does the escrow service employ you?
  13. Don't twist my words. Everyone is important, however Fiverr's focus is on making money and while new sellers join all the time, if buyers leave the platform, that hurts their bottom line. And that's the main thing any corporation cares about. Their income. If people don't spend money on your platform, you can have the best talent on the planet, you're still closing the platform due to loss of income, eventually, if no one buys stuff. Hence the reason why Fiverr focuses more on buyers and their experience. That doesn't mean it's fair, but that's how things work. A company relies on having clients and people spending money. Sellers are a major part of the business, but without people paying for their services.. it's hard for a platform to sustain its costs and even make a profit. No. Do you have a legal contract, paid days off and any other benefits that come from being hired BY Fiverr? Nope. You are using A PLATFORM and you offer your services here. You handle your taxes, you handle your income, you even pay them for promoting your services, just like you do on Google with Google Ads. Are you working for Google too? You are just a third party freelancer, offering services on a platform. And you are not hired by any platform, you are just a contractor. You are not hired by Fiverr, you are not working for Fiverr. If you do, then those customer support people, success managers, what are they? Aren't they the ones working for Fiverr? I get the confusion, however we are not Fiverr's hires. We are independent contractors. There's no contract you have with Fiverr. You can stop selling here right now and close your account. You can do that, there's no contract here, you just stop and move to another platform if you want. Fiverr is just a platform, a middleman between you and buyers. They handle payments, disputes, but they are not a company who hired you for a specific task. You are not forced to use any time tracking system. I've been here for 10 years+ at this point and was never pressured to work even 1 hour from Fiverr's side. I offer services on the platform, people buy it, and I work based on my own schedule, the way I want. I never work regular hours. Sometimes I work 1 hour a day or skip, other times I do 12 hour days if I want to batch everything in a single day and send stuff earlier. That's the beauty of freelancing on these sites. You choose the project you work on, and many times who you work with, unless they hire you directly of course. But generally, Fiverr provided lots of flexibility for me. I did have days when I worked most of the day due to multiple projects accumulating, however that was on me, and not due to Fiverr forcing me to work regular hours or anything like that. It always comes down to the value provided. No is forced to have any price. You set it yourself. That means you have to deliver. The problem is that regardless of the price, you will sometimes end up working with buyers that rate you randomly. And based on my experience, this was an issue before this new review system, for years. I had people rate me 1 star on a $100 order because they were sleepy and Fiverr pressured them to review. So.. I rest my case, incidents can always happen, I just prefer to move on. I don't think that a 4.7 star review will hurt anyone. Well as I said, you are not hired by Fiverr. You offer services on a platform. You are not employed by them and you shouldn't rely solely on Fiverr income to put food on the table. Because ranking is very flexible these days, and you can have weeks or months without orders. I think people see freelancing on Fiverr as being hired by the platform, which is not the case. There's no contract with Fiverr and they don't pay your taxes, they don't offer vacation time or benefits like health insurance. How are you hired by Fiverr? You're just a third party freelancer that chose to offer services on the platform and you can easily stop all gigs and stop selling this instant. Fiverr won't force you to do anything. If there's no legal contract between you and Fiverr stating that you have to work X hours a day/week/month, salary agreement and other things, then you are not hired by Fiverr, nor do you work FOR Fiverr. You are working ON Fiverr, which is a platform, a middleman. The only people that work for Fiverr are their customer success people, customer support, developers they hired to work on the website, etc. I understand some people are confused but come on.. we are just contractors offering services on a platform. Fiverr covered their legal grounds very well here. So honestly, I don't see any legal repercussions, unless a specific country enforces specific freelancing-related rules and Fiverr needs to abide. PS: In the end, none of these arguments and opinions matter, we are at the mercy of investors and the way they want to drive the company forward. The moment I heard about this review and leveling system I knew there will be an outrage. On one hand we get to learn more about the gig performance, but on another hand we have no idea why the score drops randomly. I have a gig that only had 2 sales in 4 months, and initially the reviews had negative impact, without any sale for 2 months the reviews have a strong negative impact. And that gig doesn't even have a single bad review. It makes no sense on the forefront, which means some customers leave random private reviews, otherwise there's no way to explain it. I, for one, decided to not worry about these things that are outside of my control. I have my own gripe with this review and level system, but at the end of the day I decided to just move on, because Fiverr already knows about all the issues people shared. If they want to make a change, they know what people are unhappy with. Based on my experience, they always stick with the stuff they implemented and while they make small changes, like the value for money shifting to value of delivery.. they rarely make significant changes.
  14. What I meant is that Fiverr encourages customers to leave a review. You can't force someone to review you a certain way. The only thing that you can do is to try and do the best possible work. That's the only thing under your control as a seller. And of course, offer great customer support, etc. If a person has a great experience, they will most likely leave a great review. Or they just leave a private review, maybe no review at all. These things are outside of our control. If buyers don't spend a cent on Fiverr, the platform and its seller would become useless. The problem is that the overall buyer experience on Fiverr was very bad, and I can concur myself... when I tried to buy something, everyone that has been here for at least half a year or a year has 5 stars and a level 2 badge. Or 4.9 stars at the latest. So as a buyer, you have to spend a LOT more time, trying to manually select people and read through most bad reviews to make a decision. I am not a fan of this new system either, but eventually I will get used to it, I've been here for over a decade at this point and they switched from Thumbs Up/Down to 5 stars, this is a simpler change when compared to that. Realistically, that's a bad business practice and it will just lead to buyers always expecting way way more than what was paid. I don't offer any freebies and always stand my ground when it comes to pricing. I don't offer bulk deals or anything like that. I already offer affordable prices, if the buyer is not ok with that, then there are other options. Well, we are not hired by Fiverr. We can easily sell on a wide range of platforms, we have no employer. That's the beauty of freelancing. I always encouraged people to try and create a presence on a multitude of freelancing sites, along with their own website. Because you never know what might pop off. Freelancing sites are unstable, sometimes you have tons of work, other times not at all. So.. it never hurts to have a good presence on multiple sites. Overall, I think you misunderstood my point. As sellers, we don't have the power to force a buyer and ensure he leaves the review they want. We can however choose who we work with and limit any potential bad situations. There's Request to Order from Seller Plus that will stop people from ordering without contacting you first. Basically, what I meant is that there are always things out of control. You don't know how a person will review you, or if they review you at all. I just stop thinking about stuff that I can't control. I just deliver the best work that I can for the price I promised. If someone is unhappy, I offer 3 revisions which are almost never used anyway. I rarely have people asking for more than a single revision, if any. Sure, there are bad trees in any forest and you can't always please everyone. But in general, if you deliver the best work you can and according to what was promised in the gig description, chances are very low that you will have a bad review. Unless of course, you are dealing with a punitive buyer. Which can happen, because we are working with people worldwide.
  15. Private reviews play a massive role. If you have no private review from other clients or just a few of them (A lot of people don't leave private reviews when they are happy), but also a negative private review, that negative one will have a lot more influence than you realize. I had this happen to me last year, before all these changes. And it took a LOT of time to recover, half a year or so. I have no idea how these changes affected that recovery time, if it's longer or shorter. Just do your best and try to keep people happy. There's nothing else to do at this point.
  16. People genuinely think becoming a TRS guarantees anything. Even as a Pro seller, you are not guaranteed any sales. It's just a badge showing that you have a good track record on Fiverr and there are a few benefits (some of which are accessible via Seller Plus). So while it's great to have, it's not mandatory to be a TRS and make good money on Fiverr.
  17. Why people don't verify their accounts first before they start earning money is besides me. I don't get it.
  18. And that's where the IP discrepancies come. You said you used a VPN, and if you used it while also being on Fiverr's website, then that leads to IP inconsistencies. That's aside from any other issues Milos mentioned. You should never use a VPN while on Fiverr. And to be honest, VPN services in general aren't really the most secure thing to begin with.
  19. I mean for writing it sort of works, because if you check based on the number of orders in queue, most of those gigs listed as best-selling do have quite a lot of work already purchased. But it's definitely not based on completed orders or at least it doesn't seem like it to me. And they do throw a level 1 or no level seller in there too, in between level 2, TRS and Pro sellers.
  20. Kesha said that revisions and extensions won't count against us. However, excessive revisions and extensions might end up making customers unhappy, which brings a bad review, be it public or private. At least that's what she posted regarding this topic.
  21. As Levi said, the chances of these being taken into consideration are, realistically, very low. I don't understand why deleting a gig matters, it shouldn't, and most people won't delete a gig with hundreds of reviews anyway. It's just a way for people with just a few reviews to stop a service that's not working and try something else. As for the second part... the algorithm already ranks us based on comparing us with others so yeah, doesn't seem right to have a success score based on how we compare with others. That's where my issue comes. I work completely alone, without outsourcing or AI. But there are lots of writers that have double, triple or more orders in queue, they clearly outsource and don't work on those orders themselves, yet I am compared with those persons. There's no way they have a lower succes score than I do.. if this is one of the criteria they use for ranking gigs. So, I do hope they rethink this, but realistically, it might not happen. Because the focus is on lowering gig scores, less 5 star reviews and people dropping in levels. And it was a success from that perspective.
  22. I mean, technically he is not wrong. For some niches, like writing, people will always favor someone from the UK or US when compared to other countries. But for most niches, it doesn't really matter.
  23. That means they said you qualified for Top Rated? Just because you qualify, that doesn't mean you automatically become TRS. Fiverr manually chooses people for TRS. That means you might be chosen next time, or not at all. There are people here with earnings well into 6 figures that never became TRS so..
  24. It depends on what you sell, how much you earn, obviously. A lot of people survive only from their Fiverr income, so it is possible. But ideally, you want to have multiple income sources.
  25. For me it has been consistent and I've been seeing 2 decimal ratings for close to a month now.
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