Dear Fiverr, let's talk about trust

[mae_creativity]

I just read a post which is very disconcerting, and posted a reply there. Here I am posting my reply again as a new post. The post I’m referring to begins: “OK this is R3K0D3D, long story short, both customer service and Fiverr screwed me out of my account!”

Dear Fiverr,
Why are TOS not a two-way street? Don’t you as a company also have to set and abide to some TOS?
There are a dozen or so rules sellers agree to obey. Sellers NEED to know what the TOS are for Fiverr as a company, on your side.
What should we expect?
What are our rights? (We know what our obligations are.)
Tell us! You decide what the terms of service are, but we do have the right to know.

For example, in the case of your company choosing to delete an account, do you promise to provide a complete explanation to the seller? Does this include a follow up answer?

Sellers have the right to know what we’re getting ourselves into –
BEFORE we invest so much of our time in order to build up a positive FIVERR reputation.

BEFORE we invest hundreds of Dollars in equipment required for a new gig in some cases.

BEFORE we don’t go home for the holidays because we know that for our long term FIVERR success, it’s more important to stay home and work (because maybe this order will lead to a repeat buyer on FIVERR).

Thank you.

[emmaki]

Good luck with this vainglorious quest 😃

[cyaxrex]

There is no trust on Fiverr and asking for better seller security is about as sensible as asking Jeffery Dahmer to babysit this weekend.

Simply learn to love the mental tightrope you walk every day. You are an ant to Fiverr and all you can do is hope and pray that you never get on the radar of the people who could squash you.

[mae_creativity]

The first lines of my post are gone for some reason. I wrote that this is in response to the post I just read - http://forum.fiverr.com/discussion/pathetic-customer-service/#post-773781
(“OK this is R3K0D3D, long story short, both customer service and Fiverr screwed me out of my account!”)
You both commented on that post : “This is disgusting,” and "Wow, that’s terrible!"
So what problem now do you have with what I said? What is it about asking about a standard business practice that bothers you?
If you work at a cafe, the boss tells you what you can and can’t do, and you ask what the company can and can’t do.

[emmaki]

I think you’re being rather unfair to Mr. Dahmer here. As far as I know, he was very nice to little boys and girls. It was just those horribly sexy and delicious young men that ended up in the pot and/or clogging up his pipes.

I dunno about you, but if I was going to be a serial killer, I’d learn a bit more about butchery and disposing of all the unwanted bits. Why not just stalk someone in a wood, knock them out and steal a buttock if that’s all you’re really interested in, after you’ve finished any other weird serial killer stuff you’re into? No more cleanup, just that prize meat you’ve been fantasizing about since your last rump steak. You’d get a cool name as well. The Unibum Killer, for example.

Point is, Jeffrey was probably OK with kids.

[emmaki]

Yeah, it is terrible, but you might as well shout in the wind 🙂 The best we can hope for is that R3 comes back with an update, but he seemed pretty adamant that this was it for him.

It’s not a problem with what you’re saying, which I think we can all agree with. It’s a problem of Fiverr not listening. Just wait until the CEO announces his next exciting “chat with the plebs”–it’ll be postponed to oblivion unless everyone asks questions like “what is your favorite color?”

[mae_creativity]

LOL emmaki. If you see vain and pride here, well … I don’t know.
I’m going to Greece soon, so I’ll wave hello if I see you on the street. 🙂

[cyaxrex]

I agreed with your post. I was simply stating that asking Fiverr to change is futile. This is the problem with freelance work, there is no security unless you can channel clients through your own website. Nothing will ever be done about it. Sorry, we’ve all just got to find our own way to deal with the crushing feeling in the back of our mind that the world might end tomorrow for no reason.

[cyaxrex]

If I was a serial killer the one thing I would never do is kill someone bloodily or cut them up. Your biggest problem as far as getting discovered goes, lies with DNA and the fact that blood stains will still show up under a blacklight even if you get everything sparkling.

I’d simply pop a potato in someone’s mouth while they were sleeping and pop a couple of carrots up their nose before taking the body to the rooftop and water tank of any building in the vicinity set for demolition.

Simples. Plus that’s how I’ve heard the real mafia does it unless they want to send a message to someone.

[emmaki]

So, what I’m getting here is that if I see anybody with a mouth-size potato and two carrots that looks a bit mafia-y, I should steer well clear of them instead of assuming they’re going to make a lovely broth/stew and have gone out to get some missing ingredients.

Suddenly, I’m terrified of half the village.

[mae_creativity]

I understand what you’re saying. I’m just thinking about it this way - let’s say you get your clients through your own websites vs. getting clients through fiverr. If you’re on your own, you make all the rules. But with Fiv, we are (not sure what we are… Fiv’s clients? Fiv’s employees?).
Of course I understand what it means to be a freelancer. There is no security in any aspect. But, would you agree with me that there should be security when working with Fiverr? Like in the example above - Don’t we have the right to know what their policies are?

And in reply to both you and Emmaki - to tell you the truth, I do not agree with you that getting something like this to change is like howling at the moon (or was it in the wind?), nor a futile attempt. It is a huge company, yes. But it’s not Facebook or Google. (Oh man, if they see this - which you both think they won’t, so I’m fine - they’re gonna banish me from the kingdom). And not just that, but it’s just a business company! I didn’t write "Dear ■■■■…"
This post in and of itself is not going to change things - ok, I can agree with that. And I assume this post will be deleted by Fiv.
But at the moment, everyone is shaking in their boots praying that the fiverr gods will not delete their account unfairly. This is us being cowardly, and about such a measly thing.
Hugs

[cyaxrex]

Welcome to my world. My situation is worse than yours, though. My island is 9 miles by 5 miles and very, very dodgy when you get below the tourist-facing pleasantries. Thankfully, I’ve managed (so far) to keep a low profile and always ALWAYS sleep with a potato peeler.

[mae_creativity]

lol you two. Gig idea for you (partner up): “I will teach you how to be a successful serial killer.” And the possibilities for gig extras are endless.

[emmaki]

I howl at everything, so pick your favorite target and “awooo” away at it!

As far as I can tell, we’re not really anything to Fiverr. Like buyers, we pay them a fee to use their connection service, and we get exposure, a shitty escrow system and some CS to help out. Now, 99% of the time this works out fine, it’s just that they’re not listening on a LOT of things, and they have a horrible tendancy to change stuff without announcing it (I haven’t seen you around much lately Mae, so you might have missed the on/off downvote debacle among other annoyances).

What I try to get at a lot is that this company, this business, depends upon buyers and sellers. It has terrible reviews (less than 2 stars now on TrustPilot lol). They’re not listening. This post won’t be deleted, as it will only be seen by volunteers, or perhaps an ambassador who deletes stuff that doesn’t make him look good.

Personally, I’ve been screeching for reform for ages, but nobody’s very interested. I do apologise somewhat belatedly as that’s what I’ve done to do. But… eh.

Howl at the moon, but it won’t change a thing 🙂 Or lets start up a union like I keep saying. Progress in solidarity, brothers. Our symbol will be the humble carrot and two potatoes.

[mae_creativity]

hahahahahaha - Why? Why did the moderators replace the word I wrote, that means to be your own boss and work on individual projects with different clients - a word that starts with ‘f’ and ends with ‘r’, which is also a word that describes every single seller on fiverr, with ****** ?
Lol - no rhyme nor reason to be found on this site.
I got on the forum an hour ago in order to avoid reading War & Peace, but it turns out I’ve found the remedy for lack of motivation to study. Going back to see what’s up with Prince Andrei and Natasha.

[emmaki]

Oh, that’s auto-censored because of a competitor site. Just write it like f reelancer or something. You also can’t write time z one because of spam.

Never ascribe to malice what can be ascribed to stupidity (in this case, a simple system to save time for mods which is necessarily dumb as it is non-contextual)

Watch the BBC drama, sure, it leaves a lot out but I’ve read W&P but it was long and boring and not worth it.

[idostuff4u]

Just a minute you guys… I have a direct line to the CEO.
I’ll let him know that we need to have a little chit chat about the way things are done around here. 😃

It’s been a while since I’ve been able to sign in to the forum… Welcome me back. 😃

[emeraldawnn]

Oh Good lord! This is hilarious and I just had my supper. Gag me with a spoon while I choke on frigging pizza and breadsticks from laughing. Thanks ya’ll! 😃

[cyaxrex]

Welcome back! Please help yourself to free imaginary champagne and any of the willing members of my personal harem. - Just watch out for any carrying a bag of vegetables, the contents of which might include 2 carrots and a mouth sized potato.

[mae_creativity]

I did watch the BBC and loved it. Believe me I really do not want to be reading W&P, but I just have 300 pages till I’m done. I don’t force myself to finish books I don’t like, but since it’s this specific book + just 300 more pages. . .
Anna Karenina is one of my all time favorite books, so I wonder what was up with Tolstoy. I can never find anyone to talk to about what I’m studying (cuz it’s autodidact studies), so I’ll be super excited if you wanna chat about 19th century comparative literature. 🙂
Yes, I haven’t been on the forum for a while. I purposely try to stay away as much as I can cuz it’s addictive + it just raises my blood pressure.

… wait - how the heck … im on the forum again??? I opened the book after the last post… how did i get here again?

[emmaki]

I have a IRL shit mafia story to share that I’ve just remembered!

So, there’s this dodgy family in a nearby village who are also very thick (this led to the downfall of their criminal empire in weeks).

Basically, they went to two local businesses and did the old protection money racket speech. One ponied up straight away, while the other told them to GTFO. So they did, but threatened that they would be back.

Greece being gossip central, everyone in the radius of 20 miles knew about this dastardly duo, and the second mark called up the police, who wired their phone, then got the evidence. Then it was all “son, you’re nicked” and everyone laughed at these two wannabe mafiosi. Aside from the first mark, who lost a few thousand.

Next time, I will share the story of the itinerant Russian alcoholic who successfuly pulled the wool over loads of people’s eyes by pretending to be an Orthodox priest on a charity mission from Russia. Little old Greek ladies only, this was, although I did partake of his sausage (he kept a kielbasa in his cassock, and it was awkward refusing his delicacy). I suppose I already shared the most interesting part of that story. Well, he got nabbed by Crete’s one and only observational cop and got thrown into jail with sensationalist headlines about the moral decline of society etc. If you ask me, it should have been plainly obvious that he was a huge old scammer with a nasty old kielbasa.

Mostly chancers and weirdos in this part of the world, I guess.

P.S. It is quite normal for men here to keep deli meat in their pocket and offer it in a fit of generosity, carved off with a distinctly unhygienic knife. Awkward all around, really. It typically comes with free firewater, so my trick is to sleight of hand it up a sleeve and pretend to drink the firewater while making lots of friendly noises. It is a tactic that has not failed me yet.

[idostuff4u]

Thanks for the welcome.

I get totally lost when you and emmaki get started with your conversations though… so I’ll just take your advice. 😃

[cyaxrex]

How did you get here again? Tell me about it. I logged on in December 2015 and whoosh, how did that happen.

In regard to Russian literature, Dr Zhivago is my all time favourite book and movie. I like it when good Russians write, the setting of a story becomes a character all of it’s own and it’s actually something I try to replicate in my books when I have time to write. I never fully succeed but authors like Dostoyevsky and Pasternak are my inspiration. Them and sci-fi masters like Walter Tevis. Odd mix, but it works for me.

[emmaki]

Do you think if you found yourself plugged up with a mouth-size potato and two carrots that you might breathe through your ears? In which case, what vegetable is recommended?

and yes, hello welcome back and all that jazz @idostuff4u! Now share your vegetable based suffocation ideas, please.

[fonthaunt]

So, I have to admit I haven’t read the entire thread thoroughly but I did read the OP post. I am not a Fiverr Ambassador and I don’t have to toe any lines in my response as just a moderator, so I’ll make that clear too.

I agree that there are some changes that would be beneficial and important, but they are mostly things that Fiverr could work on as a service provider, like establishing a better deal with PayPal to give us protection if we can prove we delivered as promised so a chargeback is reversed.

For the most part, though, I think the post makes assumptions that aren’t going to work on Fiverr. Fiverr is not a company that employs freelancers and in fact, that is kind of an oxymoron to say employed freelancers. If you really do want things like guarantees and promises and contracts you really should be employed with a boss who is accountable to you. Fiverr is not anything like that. Fiverr provides a platform and that’s seriously all it does. It advertises it’s platform which does help bring business to the sellers, but the sellers themselves only get exposure as a benefit of all the advertising done to promote Fiverr itself.

When you sign up for Fiverr, you are an independent - a business owner. It is not unlike renting space in the mall to sell your own products. The mall might put out a huge ad on TV telling everyone that the mall has Santa Claus coming in November and December, which benefits every store renter doing business in the mall. If you suddenly decided your clothing shop was doing really poorly and started offering plastic surgery instead (even though you aren’t a doctor) that would be a real problem for you. I doubt most malls have something in the rental contract that says you can’t pretend to be a plastic surgeon and change your clothes shop to an illegal clinic, but you’d be shut down fast if you did it.

No, I’m not saying that everything people do to get their accounts shut down without warning is as bad as that. Some actually are, there have been a few gigs trying to sell street drugs and those don’t get a warning. In the long run, though, Fiverr is a private company and if they don’t want a seller on their platform, they are going to shut that seller down. It is a lucky thing that they do try pretty hard to give any earnings remaining to the seller if the seller can provide some credentials, so that’s a plus. Otherwise, though, if though it might be nice to get some special treatment (and I’m serious, not sarcastic) I agree with those that say it’s a pipe dream.

Fiverr isn’t going to make you guarantees on much. You sign up here for a free account, you do your thing, you hopefully earn some money and Fiverr takes way less than half of it for themselves. As a seller, you have the right to continue to use the platform and earn money off of it, advertise yourself if the adverts for the whole platform aren’t enough, and rake in as much cash as you can while it lasts. If Fiverr goes bankrupt, it all goes away. If Fiverr closes your account, you can ask for permission to try again or you can try your luck elsewhere. A salaried job comes with a Human Resources department for complaints and some promises about how often and how much you will be paid. A business owner doesn’t usually get those things.

I understand your post, I’m not being mean, but I do think there is a huge difference between working on any freelance platform and working for an employer.