Paypal dispute without warning - any tip?

[espumita]

Wow, that is a problem too, I didn’t even think of that. That’s VERY scary.

[espumita]

I agree with mgjohn78, you DEFINETLY can win disputes in paypal even if you are a seller, if you did the right things. This system protects buyers AND sellers from scammers.

[speedy876]

Happened to us once, lost around $800 from that order. The thing is, apparently PayPal’s Customer Support is higher than Fiverr’s CS. Seeing they operate independent of Fiverr, it would make them somewhat of a Bank if you may. The order would be completed here, and instead of raising the case with Fiverr’s CS (Who would look through the order process and determine a course of action based on the facts of the actual order), they would raise an escalation to PayPal, who would only view their case as a form of discrepancy or fraud, without even caring for an order process with details on Fiverr’s platform between you and the buyer.

A client got away with over $800 after getting a completely polished document, and there was nothing Fiverr’s CS could do apart from advise they will see if a possible compensation can be done, which unfortunately was not done.

These aren’t very common, but as @fonthaunt mentioned in her first comment, this may happen to nearly every seller at least once. Hopefully there will be a better rapport between Fiverr’s CS and PayPal’s CS in the future regarding this, but it would not be recommended to hold your breath.

Keep delivering quality work and call it a loss; something every business owner will face at some point, sooner or later.

All the best,
Speedy876

[fonthaunt]

This is true, and it can be any reason at all. To clarify, my reason for mentioning the fraudulent transaction possibility is that I’ve noticed it is more common on Fiverr than on some other sites where PayPal is used. There are some unfortunate blogs that give people tips on how to get freebies on Fiverr and some of them offer to sell people stolen credentials to obtain things.

That definitely doesn’t mean it is always the situation. Some buyers will dispute a transaction because they are truly unhappy and the seller refused to cancel. They see it as an easy out. Others will dispute even though their account is a real account, but they just want to steal the work.

[fonthaunt]

This whole thing is very sticky and I seriously hope that eventually there is a better process for it here.

I have messaged with sellers who say they were able to get a chargeback reversed through a 3-way conversation with Fiverr and PayPal - but those were situations where the service cost in excess of $3K and both buyer and seller were in the USA where there was potential to file criminal charges. These would be rare cases and I can’t even be sure the sellers who claimed this told the truth.

My own practice and recommendation is simply to keep transactions relatively small with new buyers. “Relatively small” probably depends on each sellers comfort level. For me, that means less than $25 with a brand new buyer and less than $100 unless I’ve worked with a buyer for several weeks. So far that has worked for me, since after establishing a solid relationship I am willing to take orders up to several hundred dollars (I’ve never had one get to 1K for one order.)

I rarely end up in a PayPal dispute by doing this, because I try to refund fairly readily at the $5-25 level and I try not to spend too much effort on those. For me it might be a little different too because if I cancel, I can often still use the work that I produced for something else.

[fonthaunt]

Some sellers learn to just sense it - that is the honest truth. After you do this a long time, sometimes you can just nearly smell it. Something about the way the buyer words things, the way they treat you (as a colleague or a servant) and even just a gut feeling you have. Maybe not everyone develops this. When I get that icky feeling and I try to ignore it because I really want the sale, it usually does turn out badly.

When you aren’t sure, just try to keep your transactions low. If a buyer wants a larger order, have them do it in parts. If they need something that costs $100, break it up into 4 $25 orders done in sequence (not altogether) and if something goes wrong, you can get out early.

[mariokluser]

@mgjohn78 Interesting thought. I guess they would just write it off. There would be two ways for Fiverr. They could file a dispute against you via Paypal, what they would loose anyway. On the other hand they can take it from your balans, so that it’s negative and you would have to work your way out of it. But if you don’t get orders you don’t get orders 😉
You wouldn’t need to actually delete your account. Pause all the gigs or set the lowest package to $1K to make sure nobody orders and then go away 🙂

[mariokluser]

@fonthaunt Good piece of advise. Keeping the orders small is a good thing to do. I rarely go over the $120,- anymore. I rather make different custom offers and work through the project in chunks.

[mariokluser]

The gut feeling is so important, especially here on Fiverr. I learned it the hard way myself. Every since I listen to the tiniest warning from my gut. If something about the other party doesn’t feel good I say ‘No’ regardless what they offer.

[designer_17]

Yes it is, check what CS answered me. I am raising this issue here,so that more sellers ask for its solution. in charge back cases buyers don’t cancel the order,its Fiverr who do it. so they shouldn’t count it as a “Cancelled order”.

[babibalubi]

Average payment default in Internet business is 1-3 % in Germany…

[fonthaunt]

@mariokluser I learned it the hard way like others probably have. It saves you from some grief. That way I can still sell here even while Fiverr has no solution to the chargeback issue. I hope that eventually they can get a protection method worked out.

It doesn’t really keep me from having some higher orders, either, since after multiple transactions I usually know the buyer is OK. Then I’m willing to put more in one quote. The only down side I see to our “chunk” method is that you do end up getting strings of reviews from the same person and some people think that looks fishy. Fiverr can see it’s legit, though, so… 🙂

[fonthaunt]

As I mentioned in another post, I have spoken with some who say there have been a few times Paypal, Fiverr, and Seller work together and disputes have been won. However, if it’s true, I still bet it was orders worth thousands of dollars and has happened so rarely it’s almost negligible. Since Fiverr and PayPal make the financial transaction, and Fiverr deals with the Seller, it’s not a simple matter and ordinarily this system does not protect you.

[fonthaunt]

Same here. Seller Sixth Sense.

[espumita]

That’s true, I refused some offers because of that gut feeling. This one caught me by totally by surprise, maybe because it was a simple and small gig. Not many directions from the customer (not needed) so maybe lack of communication.

[matureactress]

TRUST THE GUT!!!

[matureactress]

I’m starting to question WTH I’m getting when I give up 20%, certainly not fraud protection!

[mariokluser]

Yes, you develop this sense over time.

Once I did a $155,- order and I actually had a good connection with the buyer, but there were a point where I disliked the whole project so much and wanted to get rid of it. It wasn’t the buyer who was a pin in the bum, but his project.
What I did was agreeing with the buyer to cancel the order and give him the stuff that was finished anyway.
Ever since I have a very close look on projects that I accept.
Right now I have the same situation, but luckily I work on it in chunks, so I stop after the next batch is finished. Maybe I find another seller to take it over from there.

[fidan06]

I am in the same situation. It’s beem 2 month ago and support don’t reply after I show the print screen that my Repeat buyer has used my flyer but they disputed the order and refund in paypal. The order was finished about 4 month, but the refund was around 2month ago. Is 100℅ the same situation @espomita.

P.s I would recmmend to everyone to accept the situation that Fiverr Support don’t give a damn about us, so stop protect them please, it’s better for all of us.

[espumita]

I’m sorry fonthaunt, I was answering to mgjohn78 and I meant that you can win dispute in paypal without a third party in between, like in the case of Fiverr. (sorry I didn’t specify this in my last message).

[overror]

it’s worst. you should have to contact that buyer by an source. You should try direct contact @PAYPAL CS via call (number = 1402-935-2050). Hope so they may better assist you directly
thanks : olivia 🙂

[rachelmedia]

Hello fiverr users,

Unfortunately, I am going through same situation. I recently joined the fiverr and this “paypal dispute” issue happened with me 2 times in just 1 week. I completed and delivered buyers orders on time. And fiverr informed me after a week after completing the orders. This is not good, this way buyers will get work for free and freelacers will loose their hard earned money.

Fiverr staff must think over it very seriously and must protect sellers from this type of fraud and fraud buyers.

I just sent mail to fiverr customer support about this issue, and waiting for their response.

Thank you,

[bilalhaider23]

Hello fiverr users,

Unfortunately, I am going through same situation. I recently joined the fiverr and this “paypal dispute” issue happened with me 2 times in just 1 week. I completed and delivered buyers orders on time. And fiverr informed me after a week after completing the orders. This is not good, this way buyers will get work for free and freelacers will loose their hard earned money.

Fiverr staff must think over it very seriously and must protect sellers from this type of fraud and fraud buyers.

I just sent mail to fiverr customer support about this issue, and waiting for their response.

Thank you,

I have got the same issue today as client opened the paypal dispute and order is cancelled and even client is using the files on social media and i have message him to stop using my designs and also sent and email to CS with all the details so lets see whats happens

[hardbearded996]

what a… haven’t you noticed?
fiverr are moving updating yesterday, and today

[mariokluser]

it’s worst. you should have to contact that buyer by an source. You should try direct contact @PAYPAL CS via call (number = 1402-935-2050). Hope so they may better assist you directly

thanks : olivia 🙂

You should try direct contact @PAYPAL

This doesn’t help at all because the transaction is between Fiverr and the buyer, not between the seller and the buyer.

Paypal doesn’t discuss anything with somebody who isn’t part of the transaction.