Order Price showing in review

[xzoomproject]

Well, today was a day! Finally, I woke up from a few months of my work and finally took a look at my profile. Surprise! 

Here's a support team respond:
'I also have to confirm that these details cannot be removed from reviews.'

So, I want to repost my request here, so it's not getting just trashed by 'supporters'. My point sent to them:

This is disappointing. Could you redirect the following request to the relevant team/department:

Despite the fact displayed earnings in my public order history are not exact, but a range, they still disclose my financial status. I'm asking to provide an option to hide my earnings (even for a fee) by the following reasons:

- This one is a most important to me. I don't want my friends to know my earnings. Please read it again:  I DON'T WANT MY FRIENDS TO KNOW MY EARNINGS! This makes some of them envious. This dramatically hurts my social relationship. I'm not able to share my Fiver profile with anyone anymore. I'm trying to hide it instead. All financial institutes stand on this principle!

- It's not representative due to sporadic nature. I had a month of large scale projects. None of the potential clients list more than 5-6 history orders. They just decide I'm too expensive and too long. However, I'm ready to accept small budget orders as well.

- it's ethically wrong. Suddenly, I feel myself accidentally naked and fooled around. Fair business ethics stands on a principle of discussing things like that. At least a discussing. And I have a business with Fiverr. And this move makes me questioning - who will be the next baby of 'effective management bright idea generator'? 

- Finally, this makes Fiverr face not very welcoming.

Please let me know what you decide.

How I want to believe this could change something)

[jimmykonsta]

This thing is so wrong, no matter from which perspective you view it. As a seller, I have clients from 5 years ago that I keep charging them a small fraction of my today's prices (I became a pro a year ago), to thank them for their trust and loyalty. But I hate it when new clients can see that I offer big discounts to other people, because they may a) feel fooled and b) think they can have the same discount. I will have to cut-off my old clients because of this. 

When you offer a service, sometimes you charge as much as you can get, or as much as the buyer is willing to pay. When I see that someone can give 80% of what I charge, I may take the gig if it's a retalively easy job. But now, I'll have to leave it because it will ruin my stats on my public gig page!

We as sellers, apart from our expertise, sell an "image", a "promise". We convince people - just from one page, our gig page- to trust us to do a job. Insonsistency in prices payed is a very bad image for potential clients.

Apart from that, I don't like my earnings info to be open to public eye, and as I can see buyers feel the same way for their expenses.

But the biggest irony is that Fiverr constanly tries to educate sellers on the marketing department, but showcasing the prices of closed orders feels like a number one rookie mistake. This is so obviously a lose-lose situation for sellers and Fiverr itself.

Edited November 6 by jimmykonsta

[priyank_mod]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:41 PM, Kesha said:

Thanks for your feedback on this! I will pass it along to the product team and we will keep this in mind for future updates. 

@Kesha Most of us feel uncomfortable with this update. Is there a way this visibility can be made optional for the sellers?

Buyers get the option to choose the visibility of their statistics (to seller plus members). We should also have similar flexibility. 

[mandyzines]

49 minutes ago, priyank_mod said:

@Kesha Most of us feel uncomfortable with this update. Is there a way this visibility can be made optional for the sellers?

Buyers get the option to choose the visibility of their statistics (to seller plus members). We should also have similar flexibility. 

I had a feeling that being charged to turn it off was where this was going, honestly. 

[maitasun]

4 hours ago, mandyzines said:

I had a feeling that being charged to turn it off was where this was going, honestly. 

It wouldn't surprise me if it happened. 🙈😂

[uk1000]

5 hours ago, priyank_mod said:

Buyers get the option to choose the visibility of their statistics (to seller plus members).

I don't think they do any more. It used to be on the bottom of the Profile page. I don't think it's there any more, so there's no way for buyers to opt out now as far as I know.

Edited November 6 by uk1000

[donnovan86]

5 hours ago, priyank_mod said:

Is there a way this visibility can be made optional for the sellers?

If it would be optional, might as well not exist at all. Because everyone would turn it off.

And being charged to turn it off, I don't see that happening. There are so many features to add to Seller Plus, this one would be a dumb addition.. Create a problem just to charge for its solution...

[ch6k0r]

I really hope that this gets heard by the team, nobody is comfortable with having their earnings shown to the world.

[agonza1101]

15 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Create a problem just to charge for its solution...

Maybe it is just paranoia (or maybe not). But doesn't it make sense? Just like the new Success Score system — launch a system that nobody fully understands, so we all freelancers go become Seller Plus members just to get our Success Managers’ help deciphering our own performance

[priyank_mod]

17 minutes ago, agonza1101 said:

so we all freelancers go become Seller Plus members just to get our Success Managers’ help deciphering our own performance

But they also cannot help much beyond a few suggestions about our performance with the help of a few stats, which are visible to them.

System is opaque and SMs as well as Support have access to a very limited amount of information. 

Edited November 7 by priyank_mod

[agonza1101]

27 minutes ago, priyank_mod said:

But they also cannot help much beyond a few suggestions about our performance with the help of a few stats, which are visible to them.

System is opaque and SMs as well as Support have access to a very limited amount of information. 

Then, just out of curiosity — what kind of questions can a Success Manager actually help you with, given their limited access? I thought they would be able to explain why you are scoring poorly in Fiverr's key areas

[priyank_mod]

13 minutes ago, agonza1101 said:

I thought they would be able to explain why you are scoring poorly in Fiverr's key areas

Not at all. There is no spoon-feeding or direct-precise answers - rating system is equally complex and mysterious to SP as well as non-SP members. 

They usually just provide broad direction and advice to our questions, that's all. And honestly, I understand this policy and concur with it. It keeps the marketplace balanced and does not give 'paying members' an unfair advantage over rest of the marketplace. 

If you wish to understand better, check the topics on the forum (between Feb-May'24) related to Seller Plus - when they had hiked the program prices. In those topics, multiple people shared their experiences and responses wrt SP program and communication with success managers. 

Edited November 7 by priyank_mod

[agonza1101]

13 minutes ago, priyank_mod said:

If you wish to understand better, check the topics on the forum (between Feb-May'24) related to Seller Plus - when they had hiked the program prices. In those topics, multiple people shared their experiences and responses wrt SP program and communication with success managers. 

Thank you for the references!

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, agonza1101 said:

Maybe it is just paranoia (or maybe not). But doesn't it make sense? Just like the new Success Score system — launch a system that nobody fully understands, so we all freelancers go become Seller Plus members just to get our Success Managers’ help deciphering our own performance

The success score system is not that hard to understand. If you don't have bad private reviews, cancellations, revisions and stuff that leads to a bad experience for the customer, then your score is relatively high. I would say that in a way, the ability to see what Fiverr thinks has a bad influence on your score is very helpful. At least you know for each gig, people left me a bad review, I have a lot of cancellations, etc. Before that system, we were clueless in regards to why our gigs slowly get out of search. At least now we have an idea and realistically, they will never share the entire picture. 

Talking with a success manager doesn't help that much, they can offer guidance, but it's not like they will tell you EXACTLY what metrics you have, some are meant to be hidden. 

[agonza1101]

3 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

The success score system is not that hard to understand. If you don't have bad private reviews, cancellations, revisions and stuff that leads to a bad experience for the customer, then your score is relatively high. I would say that in a way, the ability to see what Fiverr thinks has a bad influence on your score is very helpful. At least you know for each gig, people left me a bad review, I have a lot of cancellations, etc. Before that system, we were clueless in regards to why our gigs slowly get out of search. At least now we have an idea and realistically, they will never share the entire picture. 

Talking with a success manager doesn't help that much, they can offer guidance, but it's not like they will tell you EXACTLY what metrics you have, some are meant to be hidden. 

Take my case, for instance. I have been freelancing for just a bit over a year. I do not have any cancellations or late deliveries. In my case, there is nothing on that front, so they can be disregarded. I have some gigs where Fiverr indicates I am not performing well in terms of Client satisfaction. That is somewhat "understandable" — perhaps a less favorable private review is affecting it

Now, this is what I do not understand:

[+] My average response time is now 1 hour (down from 2 hours just a few weeks ago), so I typically respond quite promptly. I have consistent 5-star public reviews, with few of my buyers specifically highlighting how swift and clear our communication was. Clients also frequently leave positive feedback in our chat interactions. Yet, despite all this, I am still seeing tags like these on my gigs:

 

[+] Additionally, I am unclear on what this 'Value for money' tag means. According to Fiverr, it reflects whether clients feel they received value for what they paid. I wonder how this is even measured, as it seems highly subjective to me

 

[+] I previously had a gig with a score of 4 that showed no metrics indicating areas for improvement. Similarly, I currently have another gig scoring 8, yet again with no feedback on what contributed positively to that score. This makes me question the system’s reliability

 

I have read similar cases from other freelancers who, like me, have not changed their approach since the new system was implemented. Yet, their success scores continue to drop despite maintaining the same level of communication and attention to detail in their work

 

[donnovan86]

2 hours ago, agonza1101 said:

I have read similar cases from other freelancers who, like me, have not changed their approach since the new system was implemented. Yet, their success scores continue to drop despite maintaining the same level of communication and attention to detail in their work

 

So it seems someone ended up leaving a private review stating that the value for money was not that great. People leave private reviews aside from what you see publicly. And in general, those tend to be a tad more negative. Maybe you had someone that did not leave a public review, but left one privately. And those are the ones that affect the success score the most. 

As for communication, did you leave any messages from customers without a reply? Did you have spam messages you did not reply to? Stuff like that could be related to the negative communication issues.

[agonza1101]

2 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

So it seems someone ended up leaving a private review stating that the value for money was not that great. People leave private reviews aside from what you see publicly. And in general, those tend to be a tad more negative. Maybe you had someone that did not leave a public review, but left one privately. And those are the ones that affect the success score the most. 

So you can receive plenty of positive public reviews, but then one or a few private reviews that are not as favorable, and that alone seems to heavily impact your score. I wonder why was it decided to give more weight to private reviews? If a negative private review can penalize you more than public ones, what is the purpose of displaying public reviews at all? It is like having a scale at home that does not reflect your actual weight

I have also noticed tag 'Order cancellations' on some of my gigs, even though I have zero cancellations. Why would this tag appear on some gigs and not others when neither my buyers nor I have ever canceled an order? It does not seem to make much sense

 

2 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

As for communication, did you leave any messages from customers without a reply?

This never happened to me

 

2 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Did you have spam messages you did not reply to? Stuff like that could be related to the negative communication issues.

As far as I know, this should not affect, correct? I recall seeing that spam messages do not impact the response rate

[vickiespencer]

19 minutes ago, agonza1101 said:

So you can receive plenty of positive public reviews, but then one or a few private reviews that are not as favorable, and that alone seems to heavily impact your score.

Private reviews carry more weight relative to our SSSs. 

[donnovan86]

9 hours ago, agonza1101 said:

I wonder why was it decided to give more weight to private reviews?

Because sellers nag buyers to leave a good public review. However, private reviews can't be seen, and buyers tend to be more honest there. 

 

9 hours ago, agonza1101 said:

If a negative private review can penalize you more than public ones, what is the purpose of displaying public reviews at all? It is like having a scale at home that does not reflect your actual weight

So potential buyers have an idea of how the seller performs. However, ranking-wise Fiverr uses private reviews because it's easier that way. 

 

9 hours ago, agonza1101 said:

Why would this tag appear on some gigs and not others when neither my buyers nor I have ever canceled an order? It does not seem to make much sense

It shows what metrics have the most importance here. And in your case, you didn't have cancellations, so that has a positive impact. 

 

[agonza1101]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

However, private reviews can't be seen, and buyers tend to be more honest there.

There are still plenty of buyers out there who will not hesitate to leave a bad public review, even if it is dishonest or unfair — and there are plenty of examples of this happening

 

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

So potential buyers have an idea of how the seller performs.

This then creates a deceptive experience for both sellers and buyers. Buyers only having visibility to public reviews are not getting the full picture because they cannot see the seller's overall rating, which includes private feedback. It is also misleading for sellers. No matter how good your public rating is, if you have a low score for 'Client Satisfaction' on any of your gigs, you are left guessing if it is due to a negative private review. This guesswork is absurd when a transparent system would make it clear, and no guessing would be needed

It is not private reviews I have an issue with; it is having both private and public ratings. Keeping both does not serve any practical purpose for either buyers or sellers, just keep one or the other

 

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

It shows what metrics have the most importance here. And in your case, you didn't have cancellations, so that has a positive impact. 

If I have no order cancellations in any of my gigs, why does the system tag only some of my gigs with this as a positive? Either show it across all my gigs or not at all. See what I mean? The system is not working consistently

[antara1995]

Totally agree. It should be removed. 

[donnovan86]

1 hour ago, agonza1101 said:

There are still plenty of buyers out there who will not hesitate to leave a bad public review, even if it is dishonest or unfair — and there are plenty of examples of this happening

 

There are also many buyers that don't want to mess your public image, but are honest in their private reviews about how they felt. Unfair to us as sellers, obviously, but it's not like we can do something. Fiverr specifically encourages people to be very honest and states that sellers can't see these private reviews so.. 

1 hour ago, agonza1101 said:

If I have no order cancellations in any of my gigs, why does the system tag only some of my gigs with this as a positive? Either show it across all my gigs or not at all. See what I mean? The system is not working consistently

It means it outweighs some of the negatives. Every gig has its metrics. In that case, for that particular gig, not having cancellations is a positive. I think it's self-explanatory. 

1 hour ago, agonza1101 said:

Keeping both does not serve any practical purpose for either buyers or sellers, just keep one or the other

Well, public reviews inform buyers about how the seller performs. So they are important.

Private reviews matter because Fiverr uses them to differentiate and rank sellers based on their performance. Each has its own purpose. While I am not a fan of private reviews, I understand why they exist. And realistically, one of the main reasons why these exist are sellers that tried to bypass the system. A lot of people refunded orders just to avoid getting a bad review, and obviously they kept a clean, 5 star record even if their gigs were trash. Private reviews and reviews for canceled orders stopped that from happening.

 

From a platform's perspective, I can see why they have both. And yes, we would all want to have only public reviews. But realistically, those are just informative for buyers. Private reviews, those matter the most when it comes to ranking. As for gig metrics, everything counts, from cancellations to late deliveries, even extensions if there are too many of them. 

[agonza1101]

2 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

There are also many buyers that don't want to mess your public image, but are honest in their private reviews about how they felt. Unfair to us as sellers, obviously, but it's not like we can do something. Fiverr specifically encourages people to be very honest and states that sellers can't see these private reviews so.. 

I am okay with a bit of criticism or even an unfavorable public review, as long as I get real insights into whether my clients are satisfied or not. Right now, with this system, I can only tell that my clients seem publicly satisfied, yet private feedback suggests otherwise. If, as you mentioned, the system is using these private reviews to vet sellers more rigorously, that is one thing — but beyond that, I do not see much sense in this approach. I am not aware of any other platform, freelancing or otherwise, that runs both public and private review systems

 

2 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

It means it outweighs some of the negatives. Every gig has its metrics. In that case, for that particular gig, not having cancellations is a positive. I think it's self-explanatory. 

If the system intends to highlight this as a positive for just one of my gigs, it is unclear why, especially when none of my gigs have had order cancellations. What is the point of singling out one gig when order cancellations should not even be a factor in my case? Why does not the system include this as a positive across all of my gigs then, given my record of zero cancellations in any of my gigs?

 

2 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Well, public reviews inform buyers about how the seller performs. So they are important.

They do not fully inform buyers. Take my profile, for instance. A buyer viewing any of my gigs would see only 5-star public reviews with positive comments. But apparently, private feedback paints a different picture in terms of client satisfaction, effective communication, and value for money, marking them as 'Negative/Strong Negative impact' or 'Room for Growth'. So, if buyers can only see public reviews, they are left with a potentially misleading impression. For me, this is not a huge risk because I take freelancing seriously and am committed to delivering high-quality service and I believe my communication and services are strong, just not aligned with what the AI criteria consider 'good enough'. But imagine if my situation applied to someone with less honest intentions — a buyer could easily be misled by the shiny public reviews alone

[donnovan86]

38 minutes ago, agonza1101 said:

I am not aware of any other platform, freelancing or otherwise, that runs both public and private review systems

Upwork does that too. 

38 minutes ago, agonza1101 said:

Why does not the system include this as a positive across all of my gigs then, given my record of zero cancellations in any of my gigs?

Because every gig has its own metrics. For this, they see delivery on time as a positive because other negative metrics are not problematic. For the other gigs where you see a negative influence, clearly the negatives outweigh positives. 

38 minutes ago, agonza1101 said:

So, if buyers can only see public reviews, they are left with a potentially misleading impression.

The impression is fine. What you don't understand is that private feedback is used for ranking and comparing sellers between them. You might end up not having orders, despite having great public reviews, because privately people were not fully satisfied, based on what they said. 

I sometimes have the same issue, no review under 5 stars, everything seems great, but my success manager sometimes contacts me to say that my stats are lower than usual and I tend to feel that myself since there are less clicks and impressions. Unfortunately that's not something we can control, buyers have the right to express themselves because hey, they paid for the service.

I don't have a problem with this system, obviously it's not perfect, but if people are fully happy, there's nothing to worry about. Some people tend to leave great reviews out of courtesy, but they say how they really feel via a private review. And again, it's not something we can control or see. I just do the best work I can, revise, whatever the customer needs. But at the end of the day, they have the right to say whether they liked or disliked the work. I am sure this system won't change soon, because it's new, and they already ironed out a few things. 

  

38 minutes ago, agonza1101 said:

what the AI criteria consider 'good enough'. But imagine if my situation applied to someone with less honest intentions — a buyer could easily be misled by the shiny public reviews alone

AI uses data and clearly someone left you a bad private review or something, it's not like Fiverr's system automatically adds negative stuff just for the sake of it. I suggest you continue focusing on quality, and things will iron out as more positive reviews appear. 

 

Edited November 8 by donnovan86

[mandyzines]

21 hours ago, agonza1101 said:

I have some gigs where Fiverr indicates I am not performing well in terms of Client satisfaction

'AI' scans all messages and activity within orders and hallucinates--er, I mean, interprets--how you and buyers are communicating. For instance, if you've had extensive conversations before the order, you still have to reply within the order with rather large paragraphs--even if it makes no sense at that point. There's even a template Fiverr offers in support documentation for an initial response, so as to standardize the process. Of course, we have to keep checking in after that initial response, too. It's also looking for any indication of dissatisfaction within buyer messages. Then you have lack of delivery acceptance or them not leaving a review that plays into it, too. So, the communication and satisfaction metrics have more factors to them than just private reviews.

Edited November 8 by mandyzines