Design Legalities on Fiverr.

[mr_tony_hughes]

Coming from a traditional design background, I have a few questions that I find intriguing:

1. If we provide a client with a .png or .jpg version of a design but keep the .svg or working source file ourselves, and the client then hires another designer on Fiverr to vectorize the logo, who holds the copyright to that logo? In my past experiences with conventional design, ownership of the work has typically been shared between myself and the company. However, I'm curious about how this scenario plays out on Fiverr.

2. If you design a logo using a 'logo maker' tool, and the company using it becomes quite large, what happens if people notice that the logo was AI-generated and closely resembles an existing logo? Who would be responsible for any copyright infringement in such a case?

3. When a client purchases the full 'premium' package, as the designer, do you retain any intellectual property rights to the logo? For example, if you later discover that the logo is being used in a way that negatively affects your professional reputation, do you have the right to request that the logo no longer be used? What are your rights in this situation, and what responsibilities does Fiverr have regarding intellectual property and digital rights ownership?

I'm genuinely interested in feedback on these topics and would love to hear any relevant stories or experiences. Thanks!

Edited August 9 by mr_tony_hughes
missing text

[va_mushfiqur]

You client has provided the JPG or PNG file and he paid for that. So, how will you have ownership of that? He has the right to do whatever he wants with the files. He can hire other designers to vectorize or customize that. Neither you nor the other designer will have the copyright of that design. Your client will have.

[mr_tony_hughes]

6 hours ago, va_mushfiqur said:

You client has provided the JPG or PNG file and he paid for that. So, how will you have ownership of that? He has the right to do whatever he wants with the files. He can hire other designers to vectorize or customize that. Neither you nor the other designer will have the copyright of that design. Your client will have.

Unfortunately you are speaking without understanding the complexities of copyright law and intellectual property. If you are a fiver ‘creative’ I would bring yourself up to speed on these kinda subjects. You can find a good basic book like for example: AIGA Professional Practices in Graphic Design by Ted Crawford.

As nobody really wanted to engage with this subject perhaps due to the way they are ‘creative’ or the complexities of this subject I decided to ask ChatGPT4o to answer: 

These are complex questions, but they highlight important issues in the realm of intellectual property, particularly in the global marketplace where platforms like Fiverr operate. Below, I'll address each of your questions, providing insights from both legal and graphic design perspectives.

1. Ownership and Copyright when Vectorizing a Logo on Fiverr.

When you provide a client with a .png or .jpg version of a design and retain the .svg or working source file, the copyright typically remains with you, the original designer, unless there is an agreement that explicitly transfers copyright to the client.

However, if the client then hires another designer on a platform like Fiverr to vectorize the logo, the situation can become more complicated. Here’s how it generally works:

- **Original Copyright Holder**: As the original creator of the design, you hold the copyright to the original work. This includes the design itself, irrespective of the file format (.png, .jpg, or .svg).
- **New Work Creation**: The Fiverr designer who vectorizes the logo creates a derivative work. This derivative work might have its own copyright, but it is generally still subject to the original copyright because it is based on your original design.
- **Client's Rights**: If the client didn’t receive an exclusive copyright transfer from you, they technically don’t have the right to create derivative works (like vectorizing the logo) without your permission.

In essence, the copyright to the logo as a whole remains with you, the original designer, unless a formal transfer of rights was made. The Fiverr designer may hold some rights to the specific vectorization work they did, but those rights are still derivative of your original design. In a global market, different countries may interpret these rights slightly differently, but the general principle of derivative works applies in most jurisdictions.

2. Logo Maker Tools and AI-Generated Logos

When a company uses a 'logo maker' tool, and the logo closely resembles an existing logo, several IP issues can arise:

- **Copyright Infringement**: If the AI-generated logo is found to be substantially similar to an existing logo, the company using the logo could be at risk of a copyright infringement claim. The original owner of the similar logo could assert their rights and potentially pursue legal action.
  
- **Responsibility**: Responsibility for any infringement can be complex. The company using the logo could be held liable since they are using the potentially infringing design in commerce. However, if the logo maker tool is found to have generated logos too similar to existing ones, there might be questions about the tool's role in facilitating infringement. This could lead to potential legal challenges against the tool's creators or operators, depending on the jurisdiction.

- **License Agreements**: Many logo maker tools include terms that limit liability and place the responsibility for legal due diligence on the user. This means that the company using the logo is often responsible for ensuring that the design does not infringe on any existing copyrights.

IP Rights and 'Premium' Package on Platforms Like Fiverr.

When a client purchases the 'premium' package on Fiverr, it generally implies a more comprehensive transfer of rights, often including the transfer of copyright from the designer to the client. However, the exact nature of this transfer depends on the terms of service of the platform and any specific agreements made between the client and the designer.

- **Retention of Rights**: If you, as the designer, agree to transfer all IP rights as part of the premium package, you typically would not retain any rights to the logo. This would mean that you wouldn’t have any legal standing to control how the logo is used, even if its usage could negatively impact your professional reputation.

- **Moral Rights**: Some jurisdictions, especially in Europe, recognize "moral rights," which allow creators to protect their work's integrity and reputation. This might give you some leverage if the logo is being used in a way that distorts or harms your reputation. However, moral rights are often non-transferable and may not be recognized in all countries or on all platforms.

- **Fiverr's Role**: Fiverr, like other platforms, generally acts as an intermediary and may not want to take responsibility for IP issues unless they violate the platform's terms of service. Fiverr's involvement in disputes over IP rights is usually limited, and the responsibility largely falls on the designer and the client to ensure proper agreements are in place..

Conclusion and Considerations

Navigating IP law in a global market requires careful attention to the specific laws and practices of the jurisdictions involved. Here are some general tips:

- **Contracts and Agreements**: Always use clear contracts when working with clients, especially when working through platforms like Fiverr. Specify who owns the copyright and what rights are being transferred.
  
- **Awareness of Tools**: Be cautious when using AI-driven or automated design tools, as they may generate work that could infringe on existing designs. Understanding the limitations and responsibilities laid out in their terms of service is crucial.

- **Understand Local Laws**: If your work is used internationally, be aware of how different jurisdictions might interpret copyright, moral rights, and derivative works.

This framework should help you navigate the complexities of IP in graphic design across global markets. It's always a good idea to consult with an IP lawyer familiar with international law for specific cases or when drafting contracts.

[mr_tony_hughes]

It’s a very interesting and complex project from my deeper understanding now of fiverr’s TOS if you use ‘logo maker’ and somebody sues you or client for copyright infringement. Good luck your on your own. As a designer you really shouldn’t be using such tools anyway if you enjoy what you do..  in regards to IP you need to specify in your gig position in regards to your relinquishing IP ownership or retaining it. 

Edited August 10 by mr_tony_hughes

[uk1000]

21 hours ago, mr_tony_hughes said:

If we provide a client with a .png or .jpg version of a design but keep the .svg or working source file ourselves, and the client then hires another designer on Fiverr to vectorize the logo, who holds the copyright to that logo? In my past experiences with conventional design, ownership of the work has typically been shared between myself and the company.

Check the terms of service:

https://www.fiverr.com/legal-portal/legal-terms/terms-of-service

It will be different if it's  a normal logo or one offered through the logo maker service.

If it's normal logo design (not through logo maker) it will probably be this:

Quote

When purchasing on Fiverr, Buyers are granted all rights for the delivered work, unless otherwise specified by the Seller on their Gig page or unless agreed otherwise between Seller and Buyer. Note: some Gigs charge additional payments (through Gig Extras) for Commercial Use License. See our “Ownership” and “Commercial Use License” sections below for more information.

If it's bought through the logo maker then:

Quote

7.2 Logo Design Commercial Use License

When an Order through the Logo Maker is completed, and subject to payment, the Seller grants the Buyer a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, non-exclusive, irrevocable license to use the Logo Design embedded with the Buyer’s brand name for any purpose, except for any illegal, immoral or defamatory purpose. There is no warranty, express or implied, with the grant of this license, including with respect to fitness for a particular purpose. Neither the Seller nor Fiverr will be liable for any claims, or incidental, consequential or other damages arising out of this license, the Logo Design or the Buyers use of the Logo Design. For the avoidance of doubt, the Seller retains all ownership rights to the Logo Design, and no ownership or copyrights are granted to the Buyer.

Edited August 10 by uk1000

[mr_tony_hughes]

Thanks for that but that makes it feel even more of a minefield.. there seems to be little insight into copyright infringement regarding AI or software like ‘logo maker’ personally I think it’s more trouble than it’s worth. 

[mariashtelle1]

On 8/9/2024 at 10:18 AM, mr_tony_hughes said:

we provide a client with a .png or .jpg version of a design but keep the .svg or working source file ourselves, and the client then hires another designer on Fiverr to vectorize the logo, who holds the copyright to that logo?

As per Fiverr terms of service your client has all the rights to the logo. So he can do with it whatever they want. 
 

On 8/9/2024 at 10:18 AM, mr_tony_hughes said:

you design a logo using a 'logo maker' tool, and the company using it becomes quite large, what happens if people notice that the logo was AI-generated and closely resembles an existing logo?

LogoMaker logos are not designed with AI. Fiverr sellers design logos for LogoMaker and the system only shows logos to clients based on the keywords. 
 

 

[va_mushfiqur]

20 hours ago, mr_tony_hughes said:

Unfortunately you are speaking without understanding the complexities of copyright law and intellectual property. If you are a fiver ‘creative’ I would bring yourself up to speed on these kinda subjects. You can find a good basic book like for example: AIGA Professional Practices in Graphic Design by Ted Crawford.

As nobody really wanted to engage with this subject perhaps due to the way they are ‘creative’ or the complexities of this subject I decided to ask ChatGPT4o to answer: 

These are complex questions, but they highlight important issues in the realm of intellectual property, particularly in the global marketplace where platforms like Fiverr operate. Below, I'll address each of your questions, providing insights from both legal and graphic design perspectives.

1. Ownership and Copyright when Vectorizing a Logo on Fiverr.

When you provide a client with a .png or .jpg version of a design and retain the .svg or working source file, the copyright typically remains with you, the original designer, unless there is an agreement that explicitly transfers copyright to the client.

However, if the client then hires another designer on a platform like Fiverr to vectorize the logo, the situation can become more complicated. Here’s how it generally works:

- **Original Copyright Holder**: As the original creator of the design, you hold the copyright to the original work. This includes the design itself, irrespective of the file format (.png, .jpg, or .svg).
- **New Work Creation**: The Fiverr designer who vectorizes the logo creates a derivative work. This derivative work might have its own copyright, but it is generally still subject to the original copyright because it is based on your original design.
- **Client's Rights**: If the client didn’t receive an exclusive copyright transfer from you, they technically don’t have the right to create derivative works (like vectorizing the logo) without your permission.

In essence, the copyright to the logo as a whole remains with you, the original designer, unless a formal transfer of rights was made. The Fiverr designer may hold some rights to the specific vectorization work they did, but those rights are still derivative of your original design. In a global market, different countries may interpret these rights slightly differently, but the general principle of derivative works applies in most jurisdictions.

2. Logo Maker Tools and AI-Generated Logos

When a company uses a 'logo maker' tool, and the logo closely resembles an existing logo, several IP issues can arise:

- **Copyright Infringement**: If the AI-generated logo is found to be substantially similar to an existing logo, the company using the logo could be at risk of a copyright infringement claim. The original owner of the similar logo could assert their rights and potentially pursue legal action.
  
- **Responsibility**: Responsibility for any infringement can be complex. The company using the logo could be held liable since they are using the potentially infringing design in commerce. However, if the logo maker tool is found to have generated logos too similar to existing ones, there might be questions about the tool's role in facilitating infringement. This could lead to potential legal challenges against the tool's creators or operators, depending on the jurisdiction.

- **License Agreements**: Many logo maker tools include terms that limit liability and place the responsibility for legal due diligence on the user. This means that the company using the logo is often responsible for ensuring that the design does not infringe on any existing copyrights.

IP Rights and 'Premium' Package on Platforms Like Fiverr.

When a client purchases the 'premium' package on Fiverr, it generally implies a more comprehensive transfer of rights, often including the transfer of copyright from the designer to the client. However, the exact nature of this transfer depends on the terms of service of the platform and any specific agreements made between the client and the designer.

- **Retention of Rights**: If you, as the designer, agree to transfer all IP rights as part of the premium package, you typically would not retain any rights to the logo. This would mean that you wouldn’t have any legal standing to control how the logo is used, even if its usage could negatively impact your professional reputation.

- **Moral Rights**: Some jurisdictions, especially in Europe, recognize "moral rights," which allow creators to protect their work's integrity and reputation. This might give you some leverage if the logo is being used in a way that distorts or harms your reputation. However, moral rights are often non-transferable and may not be recognized in all countries or on all platforms.

- **Fiverr's Role**: Fiverr, like other platforms, generally acts as an intermediary and may not want to take responsibility for IP issues unless they violate the platform's terms of service. Fiverr's involvement in disputes over IP rights is usually limited, and the responsibility largely falls on the designer and the client to ensure proper agreements are in place..

Conclusion and Considerations

Navigating IP law in a global market requires careful attention to the specific laws and practices of the jurisdictions involved. Here are some general tips:

- **Contracts and Agreements**: Always use clear contracts when working with clients, especially when working through platforms like Fiverr. Specify who owns the copyright and what rights are being transferred.
  
- **Awareness of Tools**: Be cautious when using AI-driven or automated design tools, as they may generate work that could infringe on existing designs. Understanding the limitations and responsibilities laid out in their terms of service is crucial.

- **Understand Local Laws**: If your work is used internationally, be aware of how different jurisdictions might interpret copyright, moral rights, and derivative works.

This framework should help you navigate the complexities of IP in graphic design across global markets. It's always a good idea to consult with an IP lawyer familiar with international law for specific cases or when drafting contracts.

Thanks. That was informative. Jus a thing.

How will a client receive an exclusive copyright transfer from a seller? While sending a custom offer, we generally select the "commercial use" option. Is it the only way? Or is there any other way to give that to the client?

[priyank_mod]

You guys complicating it way too much. 

Its very simple: It doesn't matter how many similar or even almost identical logos exist in the market. The logo design, brand name and even the visual elements will BELONG TO the business who applies for and secures Trademark Registration before anyone else. 

The precise law or legal term would vary from country to country and there must be laws for global copyright protection too but broadly its the first mover who gets the legal protection and benefit. 

e.g. There are ample of case studies in the market where someone starts a business, creates a brand identity (name+logo) and become reasonably successful but then they receive legal notice because a big MNC had ALREDY trademarked certain brand name/logo in a certain business category for a region or for entire planet. 

[uk1000]

4 hours ago, priyank_mod said:

Its very simple: It doesn't matter how many similar or even almost identical logos exist in the market. The logo design, brand name and even the visual elements will BELONG TO the business who applies for and secures Trademark Registration before anyone else. 

Though it might be different for the "Logo Maker" logos where they're selling multiple identical logos apart from text etc. the buyer adds and the TOS says about logo maker logos "the Seller retains all ownership rights to the Logo Design, and no ownership or copyrights are granted to the Buyer.".

[mr_tony_hughes]

WOW I might offer contractual interlectual copyright laws to my gigs after understanding all of this 🙂

In the European Union (EU) and the United Kingdom (UK), certain laws and regulations related to intellectual property, consumer protection, and contract law can supersede the terms of service (TOS) set by platforms like Fiverr. These laws are designed to protect the rights of individuals and businesses, and they can override contractual agreements if those agreements conflict with statutory rights. Here are some key areas where EU and UK laws might supersede Fiverr’s TOS:

1. Intellectual Property Laws

Copyright Laws

• EU Directive on Copyright: The EU has harmonized copyright laws across member states through various directives, most notably the Copyright Directive (2019). This legislation grants creators specific rights over their works, including the exclusive right to use and distribute their creations. Any contract or TOS that attempts to waive or diminish these rights may not be enforceable if it contradicts local copyright law.

• UK Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988: In the UK, copyright is governed by this Act, which grants creators automatic copyright protection for their original works. Similar to EU law, if Fiverr's TOS attempt to infringe on the creator's statutory rights, those terms may be invalid.

• Moral Rights: Both EU and UK law recognize "moral rights" of creators, which include the right to be identified as the author and the right to object to derogatory treatment of their work. These rights are often non-transferable and cannot be waived in many cases, regardless of any agreement to the contrary.

Trademark and Design Rights

• EU Trademark Regulation and Community Design Regulation: These provide protection for trademarks and registered designs across the EU. Any unauthorized use of a trademark or design that is registered in the EU may be actionable, even if Fiverr’s TOS do not explicitly address this.

• UK Intellectual Property Act 2014: This Act provides similar protections in the UK. If a designer's work is protected by trademark or design rights, Fiverr’s TOS cannot override these protections.

2. Consumer Protection Laws

EU Consumer Rights Directive

• This directive provides extensive protections for consumers within the EU, particularly in online transactions. It ensures that consumers have the right to clear information about the terms of their contracts and the right to cancel contracts under certain conditions. If Fiverr's TOS contain provisions that are deemed unfair or misleading under this directive, those provisions may not be enforceable.

UK Consumer Rights Act 2015

• The UK Consumer Rights Act applies similar protections as the EU directive but is specific to the UK. It includes provisions against unfair contract terms and gives consumers the right to challenge terms that they believe are not fair. If Fiverr’s TOS include terms that significantly disadvantage the consumer, those terms may be invalidated.

3. Contract Law

Unfair Contract Terms Directive (UCTD)

• This EU directive, which is reflected in UK law through the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the Consumer Rights Act 2015, aims to protect parties from unfair terms in contracts. If Fiverr’s TOS contain terms that are considered to be significantly biased against one party (e.g., terms that heavily favor Fiverr or the buyer over the seller), those terms may be deemed unfair and unenforceable.

Data Protection and Privacy

• General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR): This EU regulation applies to any company processing the personal data of individuals in the EU. Even though Fiverr is a global platform, if it processes data of EU citizens, it must comply with GDPR. This includes providing transparency about data use and ensuring data security. If Fiverr’s TOS do not comply with GDPR, they could be overruled by the regulation.

• UK Data Protection Act 2018: Post-Brexit, the UK has implemented its version of GDPR through this Act. Similar to GDPR, it imposes strict requirements on data processing and protection.

4. Employment and Freelancing Rights

Directive on Transparent and Predictable Working Conditions

• This directive, which applies in the EU, may impact gig economy platforms like Fiverr by ensuring that workers have clear information about their rights and working conditions. If Fiverr’s TOS are unclear or misleading about the rights and obligations of freelancers, the directive could override those terms.

UK Employment Rights Act 1996

• This Act provides certain protections for workers in the UK, including freelancers and those working in the gig economy. If Fiverr’s TOS conflict with these statutory protections, UK law could supersede those terms.

Conclusion

In summary, while Fiverr’s TOS provide a contractual framework for interactions on the platform, they cannot override statutory rights provided by EU and UK law. Intellectual property laws, consumer protection laws, data protection regulations, and employment rights are areas where EU and UK laws could supersede Fiverr’s terms.

If any provision in Fiverr’s TOS conflicts with these legal protections, the statutory rights granted by EU and UK law will take precedence. It is advisable for both sellers and buyers on Fiverr to be aware of their rights under local law, and to consult with legal professionals if there are concerns about how these rights may be impacted by the platform's terms of service.

[mr_tony_hughes]

Im glad to be British and living within the European Market place.. 🙂