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The new system is terrible.


alessio90

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But do you agree that it is not clearly indicated how to increase our success score? Or am I mistaken?
 

For transparency towards the sellers, it should report each individual value that contributes to that average, not just an average of something we don't know. We're not machines; we try to satisfy all customers, but it's normal to have some dissatisfied among many, and a few negative orders are acceptable. However, an average calculated like this is not acceptable. Over the years, the system has been adjusted too many times, affecting our work. I understand innovation, but listening to the sellers never hurts.

Therefore, the suggestion is to review the scoring and structure it transparently. Include all the factors that contribute to that average so that we can adapt accordingly and avoid going crazy trying to find the issue.

 

Edited by alessio90
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25 minutes ago, alessio90 said:

Therefore, the suggestion is to review the scoring and structure it transparently. Include all the factors that contribute to that average so that we can adapt accordingly and avoid going crazy trying to find the issue.

 

You realize until February there was NO info about what affects our ranking? Now we have that, and clearly it says room for growth when it comes to conflicts. So you had extensions, cancellations, some type of issue with your orders. 

Also, that 3 star review you got a few months ago might be accompanied by a bad private review. People can leave private reviews and if they are negative, that will affect you. And not everyone leaves private reviews, so if you had 100 orders, only 10 people leave a private review and 2 of them are negative, that would show why you have a lower score.

I don't see Fiverr ever showing all the data. Why? Because people will try to manipulate it to their own benefit. That's how people are man. So yeah, I am happy that there is more data we once had thanks to this success score.

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Not wanting to, you are actually agreeing with me. Since February, they have already changed the evaluation method, so the system still needs improvement. Despite being innovative, it is not yet well-structured. Everything is manipulable, but that's not our problem; it's up to Fiverr to make it less manipulable. However, not clearly informing the seller about what is affecting their score goes against all logic and human ethics.

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It's a bit like a police officer stopping you and giving you a ticket without telling you what violation you committed.

This is ridiculous if we want to justify it with potential score manipulation.

With this, I don't want to attack others' thoughts but express my own opinion about the new system, which I currently find terrible. Of course, there may be those who think it's fantastic, and that's fine. Everyone has their own opinion. However, I'm open to constructive arguments.

Edited by alessio90
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18 minutes ago, alessio90 said:

This is ridiculous if we want to justify it with potential score manipulation.

Then why doesn't Google share all of its ranking info and criteria? Why don't they let people know EXACTLY how the algorithm works? Obviously, it has to do with manipulation. Why did Fiverr add reviews for canceled orders? Because many sellers ended up wasting a buyer's time with bad work, and instead of getting a warranted bad review, they just canceled the order and remained unscathed, with tons of great reviews and no bad reviews. Lots of people manipulated the system over the years so I am not shocked that some details are not shared. Plus, when asking for private reviews, Fiverr specifically tells buyers that their reviews will not be shown to anyone. You expect them to offer us that info? Obviously not. 

It always comes down to customer satisfaction. I don't think the system is perfect, the fact that we are compared with other sellers that might be agencies and our score is lowered if those people have more sales and better customer satisfaction, that's unnecessary and unfair. But it is a competitive market so I get why they are doing this, how can you differentiate thousands of gigs..

18 minutes ago, alessio90 said:

you are actually agreeing with me.

Not sure what exactly you think I am agreeing with, but I don't find the new system terrible. It's not perfect, it needs improvements, but it's certainly better than what we had beforehand. People wouldn't care about all the info and new stats, but now that those things affect their level, now it's an issue. 

To each his own man, I respect your opinion, I am one of the people that asked for a score a year ago when I had only great reviews and I was at the back of search results, without knowing why. So for me, having this info available is way better, and I did improve things thanks to the additional info they now offer. But I get it, not everyone will have the same experience.

Edited by donnovan86
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Here, we are comparing two companies with different global revenues. I don't want to take anything away from Fiverr, but they are not exactly on the same comparison scale. Your reasoning may have a logical thread, but it's a bit diabolical when you consider that your work is tied to a score. I'm not saying that Fiverr should hand you the algorithm, but they should help you understand simply what's wrong with a Gig rated 6, even though you've generated all that 'success' over the years. Another thing I often hear is that many people are obsessed with their search position. But if you've put in all that work in the past, why are we so fixated on it today? Personally, I'm tired of being one step away from Top Seller since 2016, and every new change resets everything. Does this mean that the system has undermined everyone's hard work? Perhaps some have already figured out how to manipulate this system, leaving others to collect the crumbs of incoming traffic. Is this fair competition?

 

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the fact that we are compared with other sellers that might be agencies

There's much to say about this as well. Having agencies and individual sellers on the same page seems wrong to me. Agencies should have their own separate page and evaluation system, especially considering they often have several team members. So, the evaluation is already influenced by this. Now, if there's already a system for companies, I don't know—I'm speaking from the perspective of an individual seller. However, seeing my profile alongside one with perhaps 100 people behind it feels a bit unfair.

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3 hours ago, alessio90 said:

Here, we are comparing two companies with different global revenues.

It doesn't matter the revenue. The point is that algorithms and vital data will always be kept under wraps by any company. Unless you expect people to manipulate the system and receive an unfair advantage.

3 hours ago, alessio90 said:

Personally, I'm tired of being one step away from Top Seller since 2016, and every new change resets everything.

I was a TRS and lost it, and honestly there's not a whole lot of a difference. It's just a badge, it's not like you are automatically qualified to become a Pro seller or you receive major benefits. So I don't get the fuss that people have here with the TRS, it's just a badge, you can easily charge a lot of money as a level 2 seller and still earn quite a lot. Many level 2 sellers earn more than TRS so..

4 hours ago, alessio90 said:

However, seeing my profile alongside one with perhaps 100 people behind it feels a bit unfair.

There is a system for agencies. But people have to apply for that. And obviously a lot of outsourcers won't. That being said, if someone takes a ton of orders and outsources, there is a chance that sometimes their results will not be amazing. So it is a double-edged sword. 

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For me, the TRS is a goal, not a necessity. With all these changes, if it was feasible before, today, without adequately knowing the motivation behind certain scores, I find it very distant even though I am close. Then, for some, having income every 7 days instead of 14 days can greatly improve their situation, especially if you have a family and need liquidity.

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8 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

Then why doesn't Google share all of its ranking info and criteria? Why don't they let people know EXACTLY how the algorithm works? Obviously, it has to do with manipulation. Why did Fiverr add reviews for canceled orders? Because many sellers ended up wasting a buyer's time with bad work, and instead of getting a warranted bad review, they just canceled the order and remained unscathed, with tons of great reviews and no bad reviews. Lots of people manipulated the system over the years so I am not shocked that some details are not shared. Plus, when asking for private reviews, Fiverr specifically tells buyers that their reviews will not be shown to anyone. You expect them to offer us that info? Obviously not. 

It always comes down to customer satisfaction. I don't think the system is perfect, the fact that we are compared with other sellers that might be agencies and our score is lowered if those people have more sales and better customer satisfaction, that's unnecessary and unfair. But it is a competitive market so I get why they are doing this, how can you differentiate thousands of gigs..

Not sure what exactly you think I am agreeing with, but I don't find the new system terrible. It's not perfect, it needs improvements, but it's certainly better than what we had beforehand. People wouldn't care about all the info and new stats, but now that those things affect their level, now it's an issue. 

To each his own man, I respect your opinion, I am one of the people that asked for a score a year ago when I had only great reviews and I was at the back of search results, without knowing why. So for me, having this info available is way better, and I did improve things thanks to the additional info they now offer. But I get it, not everyone will have the same experience.

 

My two cents:

Google doesn't share its ranking factors in the front end. But they do have a backend where you can find out what exactly prevents your pages from being indexed. You can go through those errors, fix them, and submit your page to be re-indexed. In a nutshell, you can figure out what's causing your page to rank lower compared to others. It doesn't give vague toolkit responses like "needs improvement".

Likewise, there should be some level of transparency for us to figure out what is wrong. I think it's a great idea for them to introduce the success score. I don't think anyone would argue against that. It's the implementation that's causing havoc here. 

The problem with the success score (from what I understand) is over-relying on AI. And It's probably too early for AI to evaluate human interactions. If you think that AI is capable of evaluating humans, then Fiverr could automate the process of vetting TRS and PRO sellers too.

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not everyone leaves private reviews, so if you had 100 orders, only 10 people leave a private review and 2 of them are negative, that would show why you have a lower score.

If this is true: it shows that this system works like a casino. According to what has been told here, the seller gets thrown into the fire just because 90 out of those 100 people didn't go out of their way to leave a private review (who wants to do that anyway? It's not like they're getting anything out of it).

8/10 good private reviews should be identified as a positive signal instead of overcomplicating things for whatever reason.

I see "private reviews" being thrown around so much. But let's look at this in a logical sense: how many positive reviewers would actually give a negative private review? It's not like they're obligated to give a positive review to the seller. If they are uncomfortable doing that when they had a bad experience, they can either not leave a review, or be honest about the service they received. 

I mean why would someone even submit a positive review publicly and a negative one privately anyway? Maybe someone going through "buyer's remorse" paying someone $50 for something, and later discovering that there are sellers offering the same thing for $5? 

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Everything is manipulable, but that's not our problem; it's up to Fiverr to make it less manipulable.

This is so true, the ones who manipulate will always find a way to manipulate no matter what system we come up with. There should be some form of loyalty for sellers been on the platform for years (Excluding even ones like me.. I'm talking "yeeeeaaaaars"). 

Anyway... 

Conclusion: they really don't have to change anything about the success score. All they have to do is let us know what specific factors are affecting our individual success score.

Because as of now, it feels like nobody knows (not even Fiverr themselves). It's like some AI-scoring sellers based on on its own judgment.

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You realize until February there was NO info about what affects our ranking? Now we have that, and clearly it says room for growth when it comes to conflicts. So you had extensions, cancellations, some type of issue with your orders.

Finally, please don't take this as a personal attack. My intention here is not to prove you wrong or start a fight. I just wanted to bring my perspective to the conversation. I guess us openly talking about these things would help us all make some sense out of this so that everyone can collectively figure this out instead of running around in the dark.

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1 hour ago, creative_howl said:

Google doesn't share its ranking factors in the front end. But they do have a backend where you can find out what exactly prevents your pages from being indexed.

You're saying exactly what the success score does. It's not showing publicly, you have your dashboard where it says: conflict-free orders, delivery on time, etc, factors that lower your results so...  I compared with Google because that's another company which ranks stuff, and they also don't disclose all their 200+ criteria for ranking. Sure, people tried to narrow down the criteria themselves, just like many try to do on Fiverr, but there are clear similarities, not to mention the paid ads system where Fiverr clearly used Google as inspiration as well.

1 hour ago, creative_howl said:

All they have to do is let us know what specific factors are affecting our individual success score.

I mean, to be fair, everything is taken into account. When/if/how you reply to messages and orders, if you have cancellations, extensions, everything. I just focus on delivering the best experience to every client, revise fast and overall provide a great experience as a whole. If Fiverr does show any issue related to my gigs in the success score for a particular gig, I try to address that, specifically. For some gigs is tough, since I don't really have any orders there, so I prefered to just pause gigs that don't have any traffic/traction/lots of orders and just focus on a couple. Which, in my case, worked. As I said, there's no way Fiverr will ever show all the criteria they use for ranking/success score, etc. I am just happy they show more than NOTHING, which was the case before February this year. Since they particularly say to buyers they won't share what they think and they can speak freely with their private review, it's clear that info will never come out and it will stay private. And since that's one of the major things Fiverr focuses on when it comes to ranking us... 

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37 minutes ago, carineb said:

When I became a Top Seller, I made less money than the previous 2 years (other sellers had the same experience...). The only thing that had a positive impact was becoming a Pro.

Exactly. That's why I don't really see why people are so adamant about becoming a TRS. But hey, if it's a goal that makes them work harder, good on them.

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46 minutes ago, carineb said:

When I became a Top Seller, I made less money than the previous 2 years (other sellers had the same experience...). The only thing that had a positive impact was becoming a Pro.

This, like any paid service, offers advantages, but if this “score” is supposed to push us to buy the plus service, I don’t find it fair. I hope that what you’re telling me is just an isolated case and not the situation for all sellers.

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42 minutes ago, alessio90 said:

This, like any paid service, offers advantages, but if this “score” is supposed to push us to buy the plus service, I don’t find it fair. I hope that what you’re telling me is just an isolated case and not the situation for all sellers.

I'm not an isolated case. Other sellers have already said the same thing on the forum.

I don't understand what you're saying about the success score and "Plus". Subscribing to "Plus" will not increase your success score!

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10 hours ago, donnovan86 said:

You're saying exactly what the success score does. It's not showing publicly, you have your dashboard where it says: conflict-free orders, delivery on time, etc, factors that lower your results so...  I compared with Google because that's another company which ranks stuff, and they also don't disclose all their 200+ criteria for ranking. Sure, people tried to narrow down the criteria themselves, just like many try to do on Fiverr, but there are clear similarities, not to mention the paid ads system where Fiverr clearly used Google as inspiration as well.

I mean, to be fair, everything is taken into account. When/if/how you reply to messages and orders, if you have cancellations, extensions, everything. I just focus on delivering the best experience to every client, revise fast and overall provide a great experience as a whole. If Fiverr does show any issue related to my gigs in the success score for a particular gig, I try to address that, specifically. For some gigs is tough, since I don't really have any orders there, so I prefered to just pause gigs that don't have any traffic/traction/lots of orders and just focus on a couple. Which, in my case, worked. As I said, there's no way Fiverr will ever show all the criteria they use for ranking/success score, etc. I am just happy they show more than NOTHING, which was the case before February this year. Since they particularly say to buyers they won't share what they think and they can speak freely with their private review, it's clear that info will never come out and it will stay private. And since that's one of the major things Fiverr focuses on when it comes to ranking us... 

 

I'm not actually... Google doesn't show its "ranking factors". But they tell us exactly what's wrong with badly ranking pages on our websites and how to fix them in the back end. And the details are comprehensive. I once had an issue with one of my websites that wasn't getting indexed, and I was able to pinpoint the problem and submit it for re-indexing. Which is not what's happening here. 

 

In the case of Google, It specifically pointed out that I had issues with schema markups. So I fixed it and re-submitted the website, and that was it.

This is a link to Google's help documents in case you're interested: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/crawling-indexing/canonicalization-troubleshooting as you can see it's very thorough compared to what we have here.

In any case, google's thing is irrelevant to what we have here anyway as Fiverr and Google serve two different purposes. I just pointed it out since you mentioned it.

Now let's get to the BIZ:

My gig with the bad success score just says "negative impact due to client satisfaction". I mean what does that even mean?

Let's take my own gig as an example and try to decipher this:

image.png.02346a5659e82aca912e1170dec2f601.png

Okay... Now I'm gonna go to the section where it says "how to improve".

And this is their explanation regarding client satisfaction:
 

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Client satisfaction

Client satisfaction is an important component of the success score. High client satisfaction means that your order processes and delivery themselves align with clients’ instructions and meet—or exceed—their expectations. Client satisfaction is determined by a variety of indicators such as the order rating score, which is based on clients’ feedback following order completion, and also considers the absence of any events that point to negative experiences on the client side.

→ Tips on how to improve this key area:

Understand your clients needs

Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Take the time to thoroughly understand what your clients are looking for. Ask questions to clarify any uncertainties and ensure you have a clear understanding of their expectations before you begin the project. 

Ask questions like: 

What is the main goal or objective you hope to achieve with this project?
Who is your target audience, and what message do you want to convey to them?
Are there any specific design preferences or styles you have in mind?
Do you have any examples or references of projects that you like or dislike?
What is your expected timeline for completion, and are there any important deadlines to keep in mind?
Are there any specific requirements or specifications that need to be met?
How do you envision the final deliverables being used or implemented?


Tip: try out this proposal template.

Stay in touch throughout the entire project process

Communication is key to ensuring client satisfaction. Keep your clients updated on the progress of their project with periodic updates through the Fiverr inbox or through scheduled Zoom calls. Let them know what stage you're at, any challenges you've encountered, and how you're addressing them. 

For certain types of projects, such as website development or graphic design, schedule demo sessions to showcase the work completed so far. This gives your client an interactive way to provide feedback and make any necessary revisions early in the process.

Don’t just meet expectations - exceed them

Strive to deliver work that not only meets but exceeds your clients' expectations. Look for ways to add extra value to your services. Going above and beyond will leave a lasting impression on your clients and increase the likelihood of positive feedback and repeat business.

You can even provide your client with resources, tips, or recommendations related to their project or industry. This could include articles, tools, or best practices that can help them achieve their goals more effectively. It demonstrates your expertise and dedication to their success.


Now let's break this down.

 

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Client satisfaction is determined by a variety of indicators such as the order rating score, which is based on clients’ feedback following order completion, and also considers the absence of any events that point to negative experiences on the client side.

 

Okay... I got a good order rating score based on clients' feedback following order completion. So maybe there are events that point to "negative experiences"? So let's take a look at what those are..

Wait..... where is it? I don't see it.

Okay.. moving on:

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→ Tips on how to improve this key area:

Understand your clients needs


Alright... they're telling me that I need to ask questions to make sure that I fully understand what the client is looking for. Ironic thing is I have a much more comprehensive questionnaire than what's been said here that I ask each client to make sure that I don't have to constantly bother them with random questions during my process.

I mean... if we'd backtrack here for a second, I wouldn't have good feedback following order completion if I didn't understand what the client needs in the first place.. right?

I still have no idea as to what's causing my gig to have a bad score.

So... moving on:

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Stay in touch throughout the entire project process

Communication is key to ensuring client satisfaction.

 

Okay.. now we are talking bout "communication" here even when there's a dedicated section just for that. So according to this, the "client satisfaction" metric is tied to communication too (and that's not confusing at all). In this case, I don't even have any negative impacts pointed toward "communication" so this is not helpful to me either.

Anywho... you guessed it... moving on:

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Going above and beyond will leave a lasting impression on your clients and increase the likelihood of positive feedback and repeat business.

 

Okay great... But what's holding me back on the "client satisfaction" metric? That's what I'm here for, and I didn't get anything out of reading this that helped me point out what's wrong with the score.

The most ironic thing is that I had a success score of 9, and it dropped to 6 after completing 2 orders from repeat clients (yep.. you heard it right... repeating clients) one of them even left me a tip after completing the order.

As you can see I don't have any clue whatsoever as to what's causing my SS score to go down. And after clicking on the button that said "how to improve your gig score" didn't actually tell me how to improve the score.

What do I do now? IDK. I hope you see the problem here.

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Which, in my case, worked. As I said, there's no way Fiverr will ever show all the criteria they use for ranking/success score, etc.

 

No one is asking for criteria on how they "rank" gigs in search. What we need to know is how to keep their success score from going down. And what we need to do to fix it.

But there's a key takeaway from what you're saying here. Perhaps they're tying up the success score with ranking, and that's why they're so vague about all this. If that's the case then it's completely bonkers, and no wonder that it's causing such chaos.

Edited by creative_howl
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