Old school preferences in a high-tech world?

[Kesha]

I recently read an article in the Wall Street Journal saying that despite all the fancy new AI tools, the good old Excel spreadsheets aren’t going anywhere. 

This got me thinking: what task do you prefer to do the old-fashion way, even if modern technology has created a way to do it more efficiently? 

For me, it’s writing. Sure, I spend a lot of my time writing away on my laptop. But nothing compares to grabbing my favorite gel-ink pen and filling up a fresh notepad. There’s just something so magical about it!

What about you? What’s one thing you still prefer to do the old-fashioned way, even if that means it takes longer and is way less efficient? 

[priyank_mod]

 I prefer written briefs and feedback over the fashionable zoom calls.

When I started my career, my boss(s) taught me how to write good briefs to marketing agencies to extract good output. In marketing jargon, it is often said that - "a creative or campaign is only as good as the brief". I also use my years of experience of writing briefs to extract precise information/briefs from buyers. 😎

PS In Fiverr's context, it also means that both buyer and seller are accountable for what they communicate and commit. There is no ambiguity, only precise words.  

Edited June 12 by priyank_mod

[hzsmith]

I second the written briefs and feedback over the video calls, as @priyank_mod mentioned. Some of you might already noticed how much I love to express myself in writing haha (sorry for the constant walls of texts I produce).

But to add something new to the table, I'm going to say I love to buy whole fish and fillet it myself. Am I making an absolute indescribable mess in the kitchen? Yes! Does my wife hates it when I do it? Yes! Do I sometimes cut my fingers while doing it? Yes! Wouldn't it be easier to buy already filleted fish pieces? Yes it would.... But where's the fun?

I'm guessing the next step in the inefficiency direction would be to go fishing to catch it myself. And I'm sure I'd love that!

On a more serious note, I've learnt from a neurologist friend that the processes of DOING something step by step, the old-school way, it's both good for your neurological health, as well for your psychological health, since by following your algorithm and doing something "by hand" you're entering a meditative state that allows you to focus on the thing you're doing, while disconnecting from the ADHD chaos that comes from today's entertainment (internet). She helps her patients suffering from neurological disseases (Parkinson's/Alzheimer's) by workshopping in manual activities that require following an algorithm, such as dough kneading, origami papper folding, bird nest building and tapestry sweing. So yeah! Doing at least some of the things the old way might not be time efficient, but it's for sure good for your mental and neurological health!

Edited June 12 by hzsmith

[visualstudios]

In terms of work, not much. I do believe, ideally, humans should not work at all - that's the end goal.

Anything that can lower the amount of work (without lowering the earning power, naturally - and this is the problem we're facing at the moment) is good news. I want a post scarcity world, where we can have everything without having to trade time and effort for it. I strongly dislike the hustle culture, and I resent having to trade time for money - but unfortunately that is still the way things go at the moment. Hopefully not in the future.

Now, in terms of other things, that's a different story. I tend to prefer music from the 70's and 80's to current music, for instance.

I prefer old fashioned home made food to ultra processed stuff.

I prefer old video content (old, in this context, can mean 5, 10 years, since this is such a recent field) to the abhorrent short form, vertical content, engagement farming we see today. 

[newsmike]

4 hours ago, visualstudios said:

I want a post scarcity world, where we can have everything without having to trade time and effort for it  <> I resent having to trade time for money

Here is the problem. If such a society could be constructed you are still constrained by the fact that there will be givers and takers, creators and eaters. So what possible motivation would the creators/givers have for keeping the idle takers/eaters alive? Some one has to grow the food, or spend the time, money and effort to create the machines to grow the food, keep electricity on, water running, etc... and quickly those who do will question the wisdom of feeding those who don't contribute to that effort. AI in it's purest form would have no use for humankind for this very reason as has been explored many times in fiction.

No where in nature are the lazy rewarded, they become extinct.

Edited June 12 by newsmike

[visualstudios]

27 minutes ago, newsmike said:

If such a society could be constructed you are still constrained by the fact that there will be givers and takers, creators and eaters. So what possible motivation would the creators/givers have for keeping the idle takers/eaters alive

Not necessarily true, if true AI and complete automation is reached. No humans will need to create anything, grow anything. Machines will do it. Machines will create the machines. Machines will design the machines. Machines will repair the machines. That's the idea.

Of course that's at the limit. And that limit begs the question if the machines will want to keep us around or not, that's another debate. But it's not guaranteed that they don't - many people have cats as pets, and no mice around, so they are essentially worthless. They are fed and taken care of in exchange of no work at all. Human keep them because they can afford it and they like them. We may be pets to the machines, could be worse.

In any case, far before that limit is reached, we can reach some sort of state where the basics are guaranteed for all, and there is still incentive to do something if you want the extra luxuries. That would also be far preferable to what we have now. A system where healthcare, housing, food, etc. is essentially free for everyone to an adequate standard... but if you want mansions and caviar (or any other non essential luxury), you'll have to work for it. That can be incentive enough.

Another incentive is social credit. We see millionaires that keep grinding far after the need for money. Think influencers - they want to be known, they want to be loved, if they have 1 million followers, they want 2 million. It's addictive. That's also an engine to keep people exerting effort even if it's not strictly needed for survival. Power, recognition, prestige, etc.

Another is simply the love of doing something. Artists that love to create, will still do it, even if there's no monetary value associated with it. People who love science will still do it, even if they gain nothing out of it, other than advancing science itself - both provided their needs are taken care of.

In any case, we already live in a society where you can do nothing your entire life - say you're a trust fund kid. Or if you win the powerball, or something. You can live in luxury while contributing nothing, coasting on inertia. The workers should revolt against you, in theory, but that's not how things go.

Edited June 12 by visualstudios

[visualstudios]

29 minutes ago, newsmike said:

No where in nature are the lazy rewarded, they become extinct.

Parasites are quite successful lifeforms in general.

[newsmike]

2 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Another incentive is social credit. We see millionaires that keep grinding far after the need for money.

The only problem here is who gets to decide that? Someone has to be king. If it is AI, it still has prejudice and limits set by mankind, or else there is no way it would value us. You can't have both 100% free willed AI, and safeguards to protect humans put in place by humans.

Besides, judging from the way humans fight for power, territory and control you would never get the world to agree on who's AI would rule. Instead of the superpowers threatening each other with nuclear weapons, we will battle forever over each other's AI capabilities.

But Mankind is so vain we have already elevated ourselves over God himself, so don't kid yourself and think we'd ever hand the wheel to AI and allow it to truly rule over society. We are far too vain.

[newsmike]

3 minutes ago, visualstudios said:

Parasites are quite successful lifeforms in general.

Parasites are not lazy. They spread, and devour. Constant invasion and destruction. War itself.  You were talking about laying by the river smoking weed and doing nothing. Parasites feed themselves, they constantly trade their  time for survival. 

[visualstudios]

2 minutes ago, newsmike said:

But Mankind is so vain we have already elevated ourselves over God himself, so don't kid yourself and think we'd ever hand the wheel to AI and allow it to truly rule over society. We are far too vain.

It won't be up to us. AI is god, by my definition. A superior intelligence. We will be to them what animals are to us. We won't get to call the shots, we won't even understand it. The only question is if it will allow us to live happily in its ever loving grace or not. I hope so.

Edited June 12 by visualstudios

[texvox]

I'm a notepad guy. There's something about writing things down over typing them up that helps me to connect with ideas more effectively. Maybe it's the tactile sensation of holding the pencil and touching it to paper; who knows? Scattered all over my desk are normally handwritten project breakdowns and quotes, as well as to-do lists and random thoughts that pop up while I'm working. Actual footage of my workspace at this very moment: 

Edited June 12 by texvox

[newsmike]

Just now, visualstudios said:

A superior intelligence.

It is not "Intelligence of any kind, " It's right there in the name, ARTIFICIAL intelligence, a mere imitation of the collective successes, flaws and failures of mankind. You give too much credit. 

[visualstudios]

We will see - if nothing else, it will be very entertaining. Exciting times.

[mark_sgp]

I find that the Microsoft suite of tools (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) is adequate for most of my business needs. However, I don't carry my laptop everywhere, and the tiny keyboards on my mobile phone can be cumbersome and annoying for anything lengthy notetaking or correspondence. 

I use my mobile for calls, chat such as on Whatsapp, and any immediate "Google research" that I may want or need at any given time.

I don't personally feel the need for constant office presence or face-to-face interaction; video calls are fine.

I find AI decent for general information on a given topic, for creating basic frameworks and templates for further embellishment, but I do not blindly trust it without vetting its output. AI for process automation, such as factory warehousing and inventory management, is a different level of sophistication altogether and is well ahead of mere chatbot logic. 

For payment processing, I prefer to use cash for small monetary amounts; point-of-sale debit/credit card for larger purchases. 

 

 

 

[Kesha]

22 hours ago, priyank_mod said:

"There is no ambiguity, only precise words."  

👏 I love that! I can see how the margin of error could be significantly reduced when there's a fleshed-out written brief! Both the art of writing briefs and appreciating a well-written brief should never go out of style!

[Kesha]

22 hours ago, hzsmith said:

I second the written briefs and feedback over the video calls, as @priyank_mod mentioned. Some of you might already noticed how much I love to express myself in writing haha (sorry for the constant walls of texts I produce).

But to add something new to the table, I'm going to say I love to buy whole fish and fillet it myself. Am I making an absolute indescribable mess in the kitchen? Yes! Does my wife hates it when I do it? Yes! Do I sometimes cut my fingers while doing it? Yes! Wouldn't it be easier to buy already filleted fish pieces? Yes it would.... But where's the fun?

I'm guessing the next step in the inefficiency direction would be to go fishing to catch it myself. And I'm sure I'd love that!

Sometimes it's the (not so) simple things in life. 😁 I'm a fish lover so I think what ever it takes to get the perfect fillet is worth it in my book! 🙌

 

22 hours ago, hzsmith said:

On a more serious note, I've learnt from a neurologist friend that the processes of DOING something step by step, the old-school way, it's both good for your neurological health, as well for your psychological health, since by following your algorithm and doing something "by hand" you're entering a meditative state that allows you to focus on the thing you're doing, while disconnecting from the ADHD chaos that comes from today's entertainment (internet). She helps her patients suffering from neurological disseases (Parkinson's/Alzheimer's) by workshopping in manual activities that require following an algorithm, such as dough kneading, origami papper folding, bird nest building and tapestry sweing. So yeah! Doing at least some of the things the old way might not be time efficient, but it's for sure good for your mental and neurological health!

I knew I was on to something! Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know this was also scientifically proven too! 

[Kesha]

17 hours ago, texvox said:

I'm a notepad guy. There's something about writing things down over typing them up that helps me to connect with ideas more effectively. Maybe it's the tactile sensation of holding the pencil and touching it to paper; who knows? Scattered all over my desk are normally handwritten project breakdowns and quotes, as well as to-do lists and random thoughts that pop up while I'm working. Actual footage of my workspace at this very moment: 

I had to do a double-take. I thought you posted my workspace somehow because I'm the same way. I will say, the biggest perk of writing digitally is it's so much easier to keep track of things. It's always a project to rummage through all my notepads to locate the exact sheet i'm looking for when I want to refer back to something. 😅

[Kesha]

13 hours ago, mark_sgp said:

I find that the Microsoft suite of tools (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) is adequate for most of my business needs. However, I don't carry my laptop everywhere, and the tiny keyboards on my mobile phone can be cumbersome and annoying for anything lengthy notetaking or correspondence. 

I use my mobile for calls, chat such as on Whatsapp, and any immediate "Google research" that I may want or need at any given time.

I don't personally feel the need for constant office presence or face-to-face interaction; video calls are fine.

I find AI decent for general information on a given topic, for creating basic frameworks and templates for further embellishment, but I do not blindly trust it without vetting its output. AI for process automation, such as factory warehousing and inventory management, is a different level of sophistication altogether and is well ahead of mere chatbot logic. 

For payment processing, I prefer to use cash for small monetary amounts; point-of-sale debit/credit card for larger purchases. 

 

 

 

I love your approach! You seem to have the perfect balance between old-school and modern technology.

[rabihumakhan]

Love!

Seems awkward, right? 

Lemme explain, 

A major portion of the Eastern literature is about the lost love, the pain of not being able to meet and unite, and the joy that's being extracted from waiting for the letters of your loved ones, and, the list goes on and on. 

Instead of the easiest way of dating and finding your match (or mismatch), I would love to fall in love with someone who's not as easily available to me as lovers are available to each other these days. I want to write poetry for someone and that someone writes me letters telling me how much they miss me and how lovely it would be, when one day, we get to meet, travel, or go out secretly on a picnic or something. 

 

[nickj2013]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:15 AM, Kesha said:

I recently read an article in the Wall Street Journal saying that despite all the fancy new AI tools, the good old Excel spreadsheets aren’t going anywhere. 

This got me thinking: what task do you prefer to do the old-fashion way, even if modern technology has created a way to do it more efficiently? 

For me, it’s writing. Sure, I spend a lot of my time writing away on my laptop. But nothing compares to grabbing my favorite gel-ink pen and filling up a fresh notepad. There’s just something so magical about it!

What about you? What’s one thing you still prefer to do the old-fashioned way, even if that means it takes longer and is way less efficient? 

I still relish those rare opportunities to sign my name to a document in cursive. 😉

[nickj2013]

On 6/12/2024 at 1:10 PM, visualstudios said:

In terms of work, not much. I do believe, ideally, humans should not work at all - that's the end goal.

Anything that can lower the amount of work (without lowering the earning power, naturally - and this is the problem we're facing at the moment) is good news. I want a post scarcity world, where we can have everything without having to trade time and effort for it. I strongly dislike the hustle culture, and I resent having to trade time for money - but unfortunately that is still the way things go at the moment. Hopefully not in the future.

Now, in terms of other things, that's a different story. I tend to prefer music from the 70's and 80's to current music, for instance.

I prefer old fashioned home made food to ultra processed stuff.

I prefer old video content (old, in this context, can mean 5, 10 years, since this is such a recent field) to the abhorrent short form, vertical content, engagement farming we see today. 

I think the issue with work these days is many of the jobs are too exploitative. It used to be somewhat more balanced years ago. Now, they want to squeeze you for a mountain of effort, with little reward. I don't mind lending my time to a project, so long as I'm properly compensated for it. And this is the problem. Most employers or hirers, feel you should be 'happy,' to have been chosen. And asking for too much in return makes you 'greedy,' or 'unappreciative.' This is basically the 'celebrity personal assistant' or 'apprentice' model introduced into 'all' aspects of work. Which really means indentured servitude in a world where people have to pay bills and eat. That's unsustainable. Even interns and PA's at some point will have learned enough to move on to full-time. That's the goal. In sports, the more the player learns about the game, the better they get, which means the more money they can command.

Edited June 13 by nickj2013

[visualstudios]

1 hour ago, nickj2013 said:

I think the issue with work these days is many of the jobs are too exploitative. It used to be somewhat more balanced years ago.

It's cyclical. It was far worse for a very long time - look at the industrial revolution, or at medieval peasants, or at the building of the pyramids. It has been quite common to have masses of people working for little (individual) gain for most of human history. There were a couple of decades in the mid 20th century that were the exception, specially in the US and Europe - but that's not the norm, and it's not a guaranteed trend either.

In any case, a post-work society can only be possible with automation, and only now starts to seem (maybe) feasible.

Edited June 14 by visualstudios

[Kesha]

On 6/13/2024 at 2:39 PM, rabihumakhan said:

Love!

Seems awkward, right? 

Lemme explain, 

A major portion of the Eastern literature is about the lost love, the pain of not being able to meet and unite, and the joy that's being extracted from waiting for the letters of your loved ones, and, the list goes on and on. 

Instead of the easiest way of dating and finding your match (or mismatch), I would love to fall in love with someone who's not as easily available to me as lovers are available to each other these days. I want to write poetry for someone and that someone writes me letters telling me how much they miss me and how lovely it would be, when one day, we get to meet, travel, or go out secretly on a picnic or something. 

 

Never thought of this but yes, how beautiful would that kind of old-fashion love story be. 😍

[nickj2013]

On 6/13/2024 at 8:51 PM, visualstudios said:

It's cyclical. It was far worse for a very long time - look at the industrial revolution, or at medieval peasants, or at the building of the pyramids. It has been quite common to have masses of people working for little (individual) gain for most of human history. There were a couple of decades in the mid 20th century that were the exception, specially in the US and Europe - but that's not the norm, and it's not a guaranteed trend either.

In any case, a post-work society can only be possible with automation, and only now starts to seem (maybe) feasible.

Common, perhaps, in a society that has yet to evolve. But seeing as how human society is constantly evolving, even more in some places in particular, there's just no excuse 'now,' to not pay people what they are worth. Unless you're operating in bad faith. Which isn't illegal, but aesthetically, isn't a good look either. In the long run, it will hurt your ability to both attract, and retain talent. Then the company goes under. The CEO can always start a new company, but that depends on how successful the failed one was for him/her financially.

[nickj2013]

On 6/12/2024 at 5:36 PM, visualstudios said:

It won't be up to us. AI is god, by my definition. A superior intelligence. We will be to them what animals are to us. We won't get to call the shots, we won't even understand it. The only question is if it will allow us to live happily in its ever loving grace or not. I hope so.

So basically... we're screwed? Welp, "Terminator" tried to warn us.