Update: Addressing new level system questions and feedback

[melissaskye_]

What I'm struggling to understand is why the buyer isn't presented with stars 1-5 to provide a rating. In my mind, the most accurate and foolproof way to calculate a 'starred' rating system is to provide the buyer with stars to rate with... doesn't make sense to me. 

[crawford_copy]

On 2/17/2024 at 8:39 AM, crawford_copy said:

The number of active gigs for L2 sellers is being reduced from 20 to 10. Why?

What happens in March - does Fiverr randomly delete half our gigs, or do we get some time to decide which ten gigs we need to delete?

 

I got an answer from support on this.

If you already have more than 10 gigs, you get to keep them (but can't create any more).

[edc_lab]

9 hours ago, strategist_ceo said:

This is for a gig that I have never requested for an extension before.

Ok, so, does it mean that every decision could be tracked with a bonus and malus system?

I'm thinking about something like:
Gig's delivery time: 5 days
Revisions used: 4
Delivered on time: no
Extensions needed: 2
Actual delivery time: 8 days
Bonus/Malus obtained: X points
Public review score for delivery: Y points
Private review score for delivery: Z points
* some complicated calculations to determine the final value *
Delivery time result: Negative Impact

I know, for some aspects they say "This will not impact the Success Score" but since the official response in some cases contradicted itself I'm open to believing everything at this point.
This transparency is so confusing.

[uk1000]

36 minutes ago, edc_lab said:

Ok, so, does it mean that every decision could be tracked with a bonus and malus system?

In theory yes, but they might not add up every decision like that into a system, with them also now going into deep learning/neural networks (as well as machine learning - not the neural net type of AI). They probably track tons of things/variables (or features) and could decide what constitutes a good result (eg. gigs making high amounts of money consistently, conversions, returning customers etc.) and then have the AI/machine learning model find what features most predict that and use that. So that output could give some score for the gig/user without them manually creating it on a points based system (adding or removing set point values) - it would be more automatically found out from the data (eg. more statistical).

You can get an idea of how their machine learning/AI systems work from their youtube channel (though it's not spoken in English and it hasn't had new videos for months):

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv7Yasr435wH1RsQLmbBKOw/videos

You can get idea of their machine learning stuff (not the newer neural network/deep learning stuff) from their Medium page and the other articles they create (but the Fiverr Tech channel there hasn't been updated for a while), eg:

https://medium.com/fiverr-engineering/feature-selection-beyond-feature-importance-9b97e5a842f

Their main page there:

https://medium.com/fiverr-engineering?source=post_page-----9b97e5a842f--------------------------------

Edited February 21 by uk1000

[yonixer]

2 hours ago, jackmuas said:

Hello, thank you for the clarification. One more thing for emotional purposes, what will happen to the accounts of the sellers whose accounts have been flagged or restricted come March 14? In some cases you find the issue that led to the flagging happened 1 year ago and was resolved yet the account is still flagged. 

bother trust me they don't give a shit because they just fed an ai based on all the data my account got flagged without warning and nothing CS will not do shit. no one can help. 

[leonormiserol]

Hey! I didn't know that the forum had a limit of comments per day. Nothing to do with the topic, but since yesterday I couldn't write! 🙃

[donnovan86]

12 minutes ago, leonormiserol said:

Nothing to do with the topic, but since yesterday I couldn't write! 🙃

It's a bug. Some people are writing 20+ posts a day without an issue. For me, under 10 and I see that bug every day. I am not sure when they fix it, but before this product release I've been writing way more every day witthout a problem. 

2 hours ago, crawford_copy said:

If you already have more than 10 gigs, you get to keep them (but can't create any more).

It still seems like a bad thing to me. Well, at least maybe they won't stop you from creating more gigs, and you can stop/start and cycle through them if you want. I still don't get the thought process behind having less gigs as a level 2. Where's the benefit of leveling up? :))

[williambryan392]

2 minutes ago, donnovan86 said:

I still don't get the thought process behind having less gigs as a level 2.

I'm guessing they expect a lot of movement between level 1 & 2, both up and down especially if we have daily evaluations and know it will be painful constantly pausing and unpausing gigs.

[rapidtech1898v2]

It seems the complete platform is going nuts currently
Today my sucess score changed 3 times from 7 to 6 and now again to 7
Gigs are showing sometimes a "-" and sometimes a value between "-" and 8

And the best thing is i haven´t done anything today (no orders, no approvals, no reviews, nothing).

It could be funny if this score would be irrelevant for me... 😏

[pyxisstudio]

So guys apparently If I want to cancel an order and buyer is not willing to cancel, fiverr can not do anything LMAO. Man I have no words, what's up with this platform.

[donnovan86]

1 minute ago, pyxisstudio said:

So guys apparently If I want to cancel an order and buyer is not willing to cancel, fiverr can not do anything LMAO. Man I have no words, what's up with this platform.

 

Yes, it's been like that for a while. They can't cancel the order without the buyer accepting it first. I had people place orders for stuff I don't cover, and I went to customer support, then still had to wait until either the person canceled or the order canceled automatically due to a lack of reply.

The thing is, you shouldn't talk about self-respect and stuff like that, some people might find it offensive and won't cancel out of principle. Just ask them politely to cancel.. it's usually the better approach in my experience. 

[donnovan86]

23 minutes ago, rapidtech1898v2 said:

Today my sucess score changed 3 times from 7 to 6 and now again to 7

That seems to show the timeline is very specific, instead of 2 months it might be 6 months.. at least for the latest orders. Or maybe it is 2 months for the orders that have more importance. Makes sense. 

[pyxisstudio]

1 minute ago, donnovan86 said:

Just ask them politely to cance

Not happening, I'd rather get my account banned, this dude abused me multiple times.

[maitasun]

3 hours ago, melissaskye_ said:

What I'm struggling to understand is why the buyer isn't presented with stars 1-5 to provide a rating. In my mind, the most accurate and foolproof way to calculate a 'starred' rating system is to provide the buyer with stars to rate with... doesn't make sense to me.

Because it's easier—and makes Fiverr look totally innocent—to trick most of the buyers and get them not to rate their sellers with 5* (if that's what the buyers really want to rate) instead of telling them "Don't rate your sellers 5*!"

[johnbouquets]

all these changes Fiverr has applied over the last year demonstrate that we're alone in this, they effectively care more about the buyers. I wish we'd have a feature to objectively rate buyers as much as they can rate us, including private reviews. Only we know how stressful it is to work with a buyer who abuses and asks for unlimited revisions, Fiverr has never done anything to limit how many revisions they can ask, why do I even get to set a number of revisions when I create a custom offer?? I have been a top-rated seller for over 2 years now, and the only reason I got this level and still maintain it is because I trust my gut and choose whom to work with. It's sad to see a marketplace like Fiverr fall into all this, they haven't realized yet that without us, they wouldn't have any "updates" to make in the first place. 

[ahunyady]

52 minutes ago, rapidtech1898v2 said:

It seems the complete platform is going nuts currently
Today my sucess score changed 3 times from 7 to 6 and now again to 7
Gigs are showing sometimes a "-" and sometimes a value between "-" and 8

And the best thing is i haven´t done anything today (no orders, no approvals, no reviews, nothing).

It could be funny if this score would be irrelevant for me... 😏

This is an indication these scores are indeed being done by AI. It's giving different evaluations at different times. Super-transparent, super-reliable.

[johnbouquets]

1 minute ago, ahunyady said:

This is an indication these scores are indeed being done by AI. It's giving different evaluations at different times. Super-transparent, super-reliable.

it's clear that the AI still needs a LOT of data training to achieve what they want it to do, they're so focused on automating their platform that some sellers are going to pay for their errors 

[vovkaslovesnyy]

1 hour ago, donnovan86 said:

Yes, it's been like that for a while. They can't cancel the order without the buyer accepting it first. I had people place orders for stuff I don't cover, and I went to customer support, then still had to wait until either the person canceled or the order canceled automatically due to a lack of reply.

Recently, I had a customer, who wanted me to make a transcript of a complex audio and use it on another website to pass their internal exam and work as a transriber. So, I make a transcript, and my customer passes the exam to earn money.

Customer Support refused to cancel it on their end while telling me:

Quote

"In case you believe the buyer's requirements may violate a third party's guidelines, you are welcome to reject working on such an order so feel free to send the buyer a cancelation request."

I believe I can fly... I believe I can touch the sky 😄 

Sorry!

A year ago, I had an order with a lof of manuals on how to hack bank accounts by implementing malware into regular apps, creating bots to steal data, and so on. This is their reply:

Quote

Seeing that your Gig offers translating texts, you are allowed to perform those translations if you would like since a translation service is allowed on Fiverr.

No comments here 🤪

Now, with the implementation of the Success Score, I don't really see a reason to contact them with these issues. In all situations, you have to cancel it via the resolution center. 

Edited February 21 by vovkaslovesnyy

[almostfauxreal]

Talking about bugs:

I made everything possible to deliver this order on time, did so as well and now it's showing as 2hrs late 😄 (the delivery date was 2hrs ago..)

My metric for this is on "strong negative impact" - let's see what CS is saying about that 😅

Edited February 21 by almostfauxreal

[katakatica]

5 minutes ago, almostfauxreal said:

Talking about bugs:

I made everything possible to deliver this order on time, did so as well and now it's showing as 2hrs late 😄 (the delivery date was 2hrs ago..)

My metric for this is on "strong negative impact" - let's see what CS is saying about that 😅

I've noticed - I'm not sure if it's always been like this or not) that orders that are delivered way ahead of time show x days late until they are accepted. 

I always felt like this is just the system (and never had any issues in the prior system) but if we think back to what was told before (I think it was mentioned that revisions, etc. should be done during the initial time set for the orders as well) there could be something strange at work.

(Or not and it's just weirdly phrased.)

[edc_lab]

2 hours ago, uk1000 said:

In theory yes, but they might not add up every decision like that into a system, with them also now going into deep learning/neural networks (as well as machine learning - not the neural net type of AI). They probably track tons of things/variables (or features) and could decide what constitutes a good result (eg. gigs making high amounts of money consistently, conversions, returning customers etc.) and then have the AI/machine learning model find what features most predict that and use that. So that output could give some score for the gig/user without them manually creating it on a points based system (adding or removing set point values) - it would be more automatically found out from the data (eg. more statistical).

You can get an idea of how their machine learning/AI systems work from their youtube channel (though it's not spoken in English and it hasn't had new videos for months):

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv7Yasr435wH1RsQLmbBKOw/videos

You can get idea of their machine learning stuff (not the newer neural network/deep learning stuff) from their Medium page and the other articles they create (but the Fiverr Tech channel there hasn't been updated for a while), eg:

https://medium.com/fiverr-engineering/feature-selection-beyond-feature-importance-9b97e5a842f

Their main page there:

https://medium.com/fiverr-engineering?source=post_page-----9b97e5a842f--------------------------------

First of all thanks for providing these links, luckily some slides are in English so I can have a broad idea, at least.

You know what? Right now I don't want to know exactly how their algorithm formula works but, for instance, I just want to know that if I'm setting a gig with a 3-day delivery and I have an unresponsive client and then I request an extension, do I get penalized by asking for an extension? Apparently, no (but is that really true?).
Someone could say "A member of the staff wrote that on the forum", wait, what? I'm expecting to see it right on the platform, not on their forum!
Instead of writing "set a realistic delivery time" they should say "set a realistic delivery time to avoid getting penalized - read more".

Pretty much like when you write the word "email" on Fiverr chat and a tooltip warns you about using that term.
Too much text for a tooltip? Ok, make an article listing good and bad behaviors that could impact sellers' scores.
This is the type of transparency I'd like to see.

If you, Fiverr, really want to make people better sellers you just need to warn people before they make a bad decision, not after they make it (especially because, right now, the seller's analytics don't help much in that sense).

Let's say, I write a not-very-clear gig description and this leads to a cancellation, right before confirming it Fiverr should tell me how heavy the impact of this decision will be (and a wise person would immediately go to read more about writing efficient gig descriptions).
So, mistake after mistake new sellers will learn how to use Fiverr just by using the platform, this is how experience is made.

Instead, a week later, I see sellers left alone and some of them are trying to fix this tough situation by exchanging feedback and theories by sharing their own experiences to find a way to improve the success score by pausing or deleting gigs. Maybe two days ago deleting not-performing gigs was a smart move, but today after someone made edits to the algorithm, it could have been a bad decision and now those gigs are gone.
I perfectly understand people trying to improve their success scores in one way or another, but this is not how things should work.
This should be something Fiverr needs to do, not the sellers.

[emmaki]

38 minutes ago, vovkaslovesnyy said:

I had an order with a lof of manuals on how to hack bank accounts by implementing malware into regular apps, creating bots to steal data, and so on.

That sort of thing is fine unless you become a famous YouTube meme doing it. Then it's not fine anymore.

 

[codecells]

Hey there, I wanted to point out something about the new system that seems really unfair to longtime sellers. Just think about it: there's a seller who's been on Fiverr for ages, has tons of reviews, and a success score of 4, but they're still stuck at Level 0. Meanwhile, there's a new seller with just 10 or 12 reviews who's already reached Level 2. It just doesn't seem right to me.

[emmasuebowtique]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:32 AM, amberlilyreadin said:

I often pause my gig to control my workflow. I'll get way too many orders if I keep it active all the time. My gig while active is a 10, but I just noticed today that my score dipped to a 6 after pausing. Because it only measures active gigs, and I only have 1 gig. So, apparently my score dips if I pause it. This seems like it's going to cause a lot of sellers anxiety when they want to take a break. We shouldn't feel punished for that.

I'm also hesitant to start any new gigs, because I feel like it will negatively affect this score. There isn't enough transparency in how this all works for me to feel comfortable enough to expand my work here on Fiverr. Currently, creating new gigs feels like a risk rather than an opportunity.

You don't have to pause the gig manually though, why aren't you just clicking "limit number of orders in queue" 

[Alex.M]

21 minutes ago, codecells said:

Hey there, I wanted to point out something about the new system that seems really unfair to longtime sellers. Just think about it: there's a seller who's been on Fiverr for ages, has tons of reviews, and a success score of 4, but they're still stuck at Level 0. Meanwhile, there's a new seller with just 10 or 12 reviews who's already reached Level 2. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Nothing is right on Fiverr for now 🙂 so this is completely normal in their eyes